Author Topic: Forum game: Rules/Discussion  (Read 77083 times)

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Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
...Well, blast, I guess my counter-offensive won't work.   :sigh:

My revised recommendations:

In the north, I think it's worth it to move some fleets around and take some casualties if it means eliminating or crippling the 1st Zy. They are still very strong, and again, this game's battle system rewards making the first attack. If we just try and stall them, they'll keep mangling our fleets on the attack, give the Hierarchy another attack route in the north, and threaten an eventual breakthrough. Just kill them NOW, take back Tauri, and then we can use those fleets to hold Aldebaran easier / fend off any more flank attacks in the area.

The situation in Aldebaran is stable for now, especially with the 2nd UGCR in the area. I still think the 1st LSF and its 4th Gen fighters would be put to better use in the south. At most, I'd say bring the 3rd DD up north.

In the south, we have to respond carefully or risk getting overrun, especially if we can't attack Kardoen and the fleets there will be attacking Hydra/Draco next turn. Nothing personal, but I think we desperately need the 1st LSF to reinforce the fleets currently defending Draco. Hydra should hold if I bring in the 4th CRF, but our fleets in both systems WILL be getting savaged, and we need reinforcements on standby to relieve both our fleets in Hydra and Draco. If we don't have at least 4 fleets covering both the Draco-Vega and Hydra-Odin axes, I fear the Hierarchy could shatter our defenses and break through by committing enough forces.

Even if we can't do it right away, I think we desperately need to eventually counter-attack into Kardoen and seal off the flow of Hierarchy fleets into the south. As long as we have to defend two or more systems at once in the south and the Hierarchy can keep sending in more fleets through Kardoen, we'll eventually lose the battle of attrition. To push them back, or even to hold in the south with more enemy fleets undoubtedly inbound via Kardoen, we'll need to commit as many fleets as we can while leaving enough to keep the north stable. With some adroit maneuvering, we can still defend the north without sending heavy reinforcements there. The south is a different story. I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but seriously, we could lose the war if the Hierarchy breaks through our lines on either the Hydra or the Draco axis.

Simply put, I don’t think we’re going to take back Tauri. They’ll just move another fleet in there. Then another. Then another.

And we can’t kill the 1st Zy right away, it’s too strong. I think you underestimate how precarious things are up in the North. You’ll still get your 8 fleets down South with my plan.

I want to wear the 1st Zy down, then finish them. We can keep them under control and weaken their strength. If they stay in Tauri, the next move would be to have the 4th SF resupply again, then go to Tauri to take the next hit at full strength, as the 1st SF pulls back to resupply.

Anything could come through on the next turn up North, another Zy fleet perhaps, or we might even get the Hertak.

Hertak or not, once the 2nd Nordera is wiped out, you’ve only got 4 fleets down there, it’ll be 2 on 1, and the Nordera fleets are pathetic. It’s best to send the 1st LSF up here. If anything, their power will help us to finish off the 1st Zy when the time is right.

Remember, even if we manage to fill up Kardoen with our fleets, they’ll still be able to move past and attack Hydra, it’ll be the same as up North with Tauri, I don’t think we’ll get it down to one entry point.

So, I think it’s more important to focus on ways to eliminate enemy fleets rather than taking Kardoen, because, I just don’t think we’ll ever take it, the enemy are only going to get stronger, we need to destroy fleets, we need to keep a numbers advantage so we can pull back fleets, resupply, and rotate in and out.

 
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I think Spoon's busy plotting our demise and the end of Terran liberty.  I for one welcome our new space elf overlords!
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
If Jellyfish/4th SF really wants to attack the Zy he should either retreat after the attack (probably surviving with something < 10% due to retreat damage) or attack during turn 2 to share damage with 1st SF (if they still choose to attack). When any additional hostile fleet moves to Tauri 4th SF is likely to blow up next turn and this won't fall under the "no one hit kills" category that Spoon promised not to do.

Generally I expect Spoon to give us more trouble next turn. This may be more hostile fleets, too powerful Hertak, some nasty special abilities or unexpected hostile fleet movements like mass attacking Tauri.
Here goes scripting and copy paste coding
Freespace RTS Mod
Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I’ll do a calculation on a damage share, and see if the 1st SF (the 4th SF must retreat) can be destroyed next turn:

4st SF Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 11+5=16 (18+2)
Capital attack strength: 9+6=15 (18)
Fighters at 51% Strength (31 left)
Capital ships at 51% Strength (31 left)

SF 1st Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 17+8=25 (18+2)
Capital attack strength: 15+9=24 (18)
Fighters at 83% Strength (63 left)
Capital ships at 86% Strength (66 left)

vs.

1st Zy Fleet (morale boost)
Fighter attack strength: 27+13=40 (22+2)
Capital attack strength: 26+14=40 (21+2)
Fighters at 119% Strength (78 left)
Capital ships at 120% Strength (81 left)

Counterattack:

3rd Cordi Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 16+5=21 (20)
Capital attack strength: 10+8=18 (12)
Fighters at 80% Strength
Capital ships at 81% Strength

2nd Zy Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 20+10=30 (21+1)
Capital attack strength: 19+10=29 (20+1)
Fighters at 90% Strength
Capital ships at 91% Strength

1st Zy Fleet (morale boost) (not sure if right)
Fighter attack strength: 17+8=25 (15+2)
Capital attack strength: 16+9=25 (14+2)
Fighters at 78% Strength
Capital ships at 81% Strength

vs.

63/66 (76/72 - death.)

Alternatively, the worst they can do if the 4th retreats and the 1st stalls is:

SF 1st Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 17+8=25 (18+2)
Capital attack strength: 15+9=24 (18)
Fighters at 83% Strength
Capital ships at 86% Strength

vs.

3rd Cordi Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 16+5=21 (20)
Capital attack strength: 10+8=18 (12)
Fighters at 80% Strength
Capital ships at 81% Strength

2nd Zy Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 20+10=30 (21+1)
Capital attack strength: 19+10=29 (20+1)
Fighters at 90% Strength
Capital ships at 91% Strength

1st Zy Fleet (morale boost)
Fighter attack strength: 27+13=40 (22+2)
Capital attack strength: 26+14=40 (21+2)
Fighters at 119% Strength
Capital ships at 120% Strength

91/88 - but would Spoon be that brutal? That would be extremely harsh. He could drop that on anyone. But a fleet on 66% strength instead of 86% strength would be a more tempting target for elimination. We need to keep our fleets strong.

NOTE: Edited a few times due to much sloppiness. Apologies for any confusion.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 05:42:09 pm by Lorric »

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Torchwood, please, attack the 2nd Nordera, not the 1st.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Lorric - I don't think your calculations are correct.  If we destroy the 2nd Cordi and the 2nd Zy & 3rd Cordi move to Tauri and attack, then I think the move will be a retreat with damage taken from both 2nd CRF & 2nd UGCR.
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Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Lorric - I don't think your calculations are correct.  If we destroy the 2nd Cordi and the 2nd Zy & 3rd Cordi move to Tauri and attack, then I think the move will be a retreat with damage taken from both 2nd CRF & 2nd UGCR.
Not with the 5th Cordi coming in to cover it.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I thought cover for a retreat had to be not moving in the same action? i.e. if two fleets retreat from a system with their 1st action both will take damage?  IOW, the 5th Cordi is not present at the start of the retreat, only at the end.

Now I thought about retreating and I'm not sure how this is handled with multiple fleets.
In which order do the turns of different fleets happen? For example there are two fleets in the same system and both want to retreat, one heavily damaged and one in a good state but unable to fight the hostile fleets alone. Do both fleets get damage on retreat or just one of them (and which one)? Does it depend on first/second (=major/minor) action?
A similar situation would be one where a fleet jumps into a system to cover another fleet's retreat. Does that work and if yes what are the requirements? Like the covering fleet has to jump in with the first action and the retreating one has to use the second action or it'll get damage.
This is a good example why it matters in what order you do your minor and major action.
In your first retreat example, it is possible for the fleet in good state to cover the retreat of the battered one before retreating itself. The damaged fleet will need to have its first action be the retreat while the other fleet needs to do it second. If both fleets have their retreat action as the first or second action then well, they both retreat at the same time and both take damage.
In the second example, it is as you say. A new fleet can jump into the system first and cover the retreat of the other fleet.
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Ha ha ha, niffiwan, I knew I'd seen that quote before, look:

Spoon, if two fleets swap places in a system simultaneously, does it allow one to cover the other's retreat?
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85046.msg1700482#msg1700482

Apologies for it somehow not sinking in.

All this stuff really needs compiling into one place.

I think the rules on retreat damage are lurking around somewhere as well, but it took me a while to find that, and I don't fancy searching around again right now.

EDIT: Although it probably doesn't matter, since I think we can be confident the heirarchy won't use such a move.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 08:02:19 pm by Lorric »

 
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Though my character won't like it, I think it's in our best interests to accept the surrender of the 4th Cordi. It'll let us explore the benefits of such a move and allow us to maintain our position.

I'm considering putting this down for my next turn:

Major Action: Secure System (Like hell my character is going to be the one accepting the surrender :p)
Minor Action: N/A (I'd rather stand and hold Draco, since the 1st LSF will be able to come in and cover us if we get beat up pretty badly. We're not really in need of resupply, since we're at 90%, though I'm still concerned about two 1st fleets being in Kardoen)


 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Though my character won't like it, I think it's in our best interests to accept the surrender of the 4th Cordi. It'll let us explore the benefits of such a move and allow us to maintain our position.

I'm considering putting this down for my next turn:

Major Action: Secure System (Like hell my character is going to be the one accepting the surrender :p)
Minor Action: N/A (I'd rather stand and hold Draco, since the 1st LSF will be able to come in and cover us if we get beat up pretty badly. We're not really in need of resupply, since we're at 90%, though I'm still concerned about two 1st fleets being in Kardoen)
I recommended resupply for you because the others can take care of the rest, and they won't die on the next turn. Someone will be just sat there, so we might as well make that decision. On the turn after, you'll be at full strength, and you can just move in and attack.

(You could also have some funny RP, where you don't want to get anywhere near the bugs... :) )

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
* niffiwan puts his devils hat on

If we don't accept the surrender, then the 3rd SF could blitz & destroy the 4th Cordi and all three fleets attack 1st ? in Kardoen (maybe?) 

* niffiwan takes his devils hat off

I don't recommend this course of action, but it represents what accepting the surrender will cost us. 
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
The system would still be hostile, would that block us from doing it?

Anyway, I'm hoping taking the surrender may help us storyline-wise.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
The system would still be hostile, would that block us from doing it?

dunno.  I'm not sure the system would go hostile.  It's owned by the Hierarchy now, so "we're" the hostile force, and it'll stay contested until we leave or secure it.  If it's contested, then we can move provided there are no hostile fleets.  Which wouldn't be true until the 4th Cordi is destroyed after the 1st action has concluded... so that means that this doesn't let us attack Kardoen anyway.  Oh well, there's always next turn :)

Anyway, I'm hoping taking the surrender may help us storyline-wise.

Indeed. 
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Veers

  • 29
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Though my character won't like it, I think it's in our best interests to accept the surrender of the 4th Cordi. It'll let us explore the benefits of such a move and allow us to maintain our position.

I'm considering putting this down for my next turn:

Major Action: Secure System (Like hell my character is going to be the one accepting the surrender :p)
Minor Action: N/A (I'd rather stand and hold Draco, since the 1st LSF will be able to come in and cover us if we get beat up pretty badly. We're not really in need of resupply, since we're at 90%, though I'm still concerned about two 1st fleets being in Kardoen)
I recommended resupply for you because the others can take care of the rest, and they won't die on the next turn. Someone will be just sat there, so we might as well make that decision. On the turn after, you'll be at full strength, and you can just move in and attack.

(You could also have some funny RP, where you don't want to get anywhere near the bugs... :) )

I thought it was already established that we must:-

Action 1 - Capture Fleet
Action 2 - Secure system

Simply because Draco will not be friendly until we capture it (end of this turn), so we can only use friendly actions (resupply, defend etc) next turn. Not on our second action (as the system is in the process of being secured)

And from my understanding, the SF can blitz into Kardeon, but they would be alone until next turn. As We (non-SF) cannot move until the system is secure or contested.


Regarding accepting surrender: One fleet needs to spend a major action to take em in and disarm them. The prisoners will then be transported to Sol for interrogation and all that good stuff. If it's done as the first action in the turn then the system itself can be secured with a second action.
Regarding accepting surrender: One fleet needs to spend a major action to take em in and disarm them. The prisoners will then be transported to Sol for interrogation and all that good stuff. If it's done as the first action in the turn then the system itself can be secured with a second action.
Can someone else secure the system on their first action, or will it have to be done with a second action?
Well I did say second action didn't I?  :p
Next question, will the other two fleets that don't use secure be able to use friendly-system actions on their second action?
No
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 09:57:56 pm by Veers »
Current Activities/Projects: Ideas and some storyline completed.

ArmA 2&3 Mission Designer and player.


WoD - I like Crystal. <3

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Indeed we did, Veers. But I'm talking about the bolded part in this post:

Thanks Spoon.

Okay, with that out of the way, here are my revised recommendations, top:

2nd SF - double Resupply.

1st UGCR - pull back to Virgo and resupply.

4th SF - pull back to Librae and resupply (currently engaging Zy and staying put, this is suicide!)

1st SF - move to Tauri, don’t engage (currently engaging Zy, please don’t, or you will likely die a pointless death. Just stall them.)

2nd UGCR - engage 2nd Cordi (done)

2nd CRF - zeal, engage 2nd Cordi (done)

1st LSF - Travel to Aldebaran.

Bottom:

No one can travel to Kardoen. So here’s what I would do:

2nd LSF - travel to Odin and Resupply.

4th CRF - travel to Hydra.

3rd DD - travel to Vega.

2nd DD and 3rd CRF attack and destroy the 2nd Nordera. (2nd DD has done this.)

1st CRF - Capture the 4th Cordi, Use Zeal.

3rd SF - Travel to Vega and Resupply.

1st DD - Prepare Barrage and Secure the system.

But hey, it's probably a good thing to get my plan back in place, since I'll be going to sleep soon.

 

Offline Veers

  • 29
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Sorry Lorric, I missed that part. I thought it was odd that it was just covered and it was being discussed again.

:)
Current Activities/Projects: Ideas and some storyline completed.

ArmA 2&3 Mission Designer and player.


WoD - I like Crystal. <3

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Sorry Lorric, I missed that part. I thought it was odd that it was just covered and it was being discussed again.

:)

That's okay. :)

 

Offline CommanderDJ

  • Software engineer
  • 210
    • Minecraft
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
So wait, is the 1st SF's doom certain if it attacks the 1st Zy?
[16:57] <CommanderDJ> What prompted the decision to split WiH into acts?
[16:58] <battuta> it was long, we wanted to release something
[16:58] <battuta> it felt good to have a target to hit
[17:00] <RangerKarl> not sure if talking about strike mission, or jerking off
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> WUT
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> hahahahaha
[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
So wait, is the 1st SF's doom certain if it attacks the 1st Zy?
We're not sure. But please don't attack. Just go into the system, but don't attack. You should be safe if you do that.