Author Topic: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday  (Read 23271 times)

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Offline Beskargam

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
Agreed. I have no problem with modders getting paid for their work if they want in theory. But this system is a mess.

Also derivative works need new and updated legal framework

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
A lot of gamers are sadly thinking they are ENTILTED to get free stuff - including mods.
If the creator wasn't to give it for free, fine.
Otherwise, no.
Sure, but it'll be really funny when people realize that those who buy mods are actually entitled to something, same as any customer.  Can't really use the "it's free so quit *****ing" defense when it's no longer free. 

God this idea just gets worse and worse the more you look at it.  You think gamers act entitled now?  Just wait.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 07:58:19 am by Aesaar »

 
Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
You just know that they're going to act like they're entitled to unwavering praise and also your money. The drama is going to be thermonuclear.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
Of course.
You need to mantain the mod and fix any bugs.
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
What's the incentive for doing that?  Money-back policy applies for one day only.  Let's say I make a mod, release it on the Workshop, and it works fine at first.  People buy it, people like it, all that.  Then I decide to update it and the update breaks compatibility with another paid mod, and I don't feel like fixing it, and neither does the other guy.

Valve, Bethesda, and myself have been paid, and the return policy prevents users from getting their money back, so who cares about the users?  Let them complain all they want. 

Valve have already shown they don't care about that sort of thing, as proven by the Steam store's return policy (or lack of it).  No reason to expect mods to be treated any differently.


I'm so tempted to go into how this could affect drama-prone modding communities like Skyrim's.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 08:33:03 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
I really don't know how the heck they thought this would work if they didn't police the content.  Who do they think IP holders are going to come after if they just let it be the Wild West?  Not the sheriff turning a blind eye and getting most of the kickbacks apparently.

The thing is, I'm not sure that even if they tried to police the content it would help. Lots of stuff will slip through (has been slipping through, for ages, on the free setup; and there are plenty of places that can still get you sued, like Germany) that nobody happened to recognize at that moment.
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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
They're probably going to work like every other content distributor and take anything down the second an IP owner looks at it askance but otherwise do nothing.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline deathfun

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
What's the incentive for doing that?  Money-back policy applies for one day only.  Let's say I make a mod, release it on the Workshop, and it works fine at first.  People buy it, people like it, all that.  Then I decide to update it and the update breaks compatibility with another paid mod, and I don't feel like fixing it, and neither does the other guy.

If I'm a modder and I want money, typically speaking I want a following which will buy and use my mods. What sort of ****ty business strategy is it to go "Meh" and not fix things that go wrong? People will then immediately stop buying that mod, and any of mods you make in the future

Secondly, modding has always run the risk of conflicting with someone else's mod or breaking with an update. Anyone who changes their game knows that this may happen (unless you're ignorant). Updates are also fairly common and known to cause issues with a whole plethora of stuff given the nature of *changing the game's files*

This comes down to "buyer beware". Do the research, see if the guy you're buying from is active and updates frequently to keep up with dev updates, and take the risk buying the product. It's no different than buying anything anywhere in life, games or otherwise.
"No"

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
So, if my sources are correct, Midas Magic now has a paid version. The free version has a low chance (like 4%) to display an ingame message (a messagebox popup that you have to click out of) advertising the paid version, every time you cast certain spells.


 

Offline pecenipicek

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
So, if my sources are correct, Midas Magic now has a paid version. The free version has a low chance (like 4%) to display an ingame message (a messagebox popup that you have to click out of) advertising the paid version, every time you cast certain spells.


well, we can kiss nexus goodbye :D


[edit] Robin actually wrote a pretty good piece about it there
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 04:08:34 pm by pecenipicek »
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
If I'm a modder and I want money, typically speaking I want a following which will buy and use my mods. What sort of ****ty business strategy is it to go "Meh" and not fix things that go wrong? People will then immediately stop buying that mod, and any of mods you make in the future
But it's the other guy's fault, not mine.  The conflict isn't my fault and I'm not going to fix it.  Complain at him. 

Also I'm done with Skyrim modding, so I don't give a **** about my reputation.

Quote
Secondly, modding has always run the risk of conflicting with someone else's mod or breaking with an update. Anyone who changes their game knows that this may happen (unless you're ignorant). Updates are also fairly common and known to cause issues with a whole plethora of stuff given the nature of *changing the game's files*

This comes down to "buyer beware". Do the research, see if the guy you're buying from is active and updates frequently to keep up with dev updates, and take the risk buying the product. It's no different than buying anything anywhere in life, games or otherwise.
Yeah, that's the theory, but it won't happen that way.  Even now, people complain about how "mod X broke my game, and it must be it because it's the last one I installed".  It's going to become even worse when those idiots have actually paid for the mod they think broke their game.

 
Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
The modders have done an amazing job of proving that all this move can accomplish is lowering the quality of mods across the board as everything is made into a venal cashgrab.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline deathfun

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
Quote
But it's the other guy's fault, not mine.  The conflict isn't my fault and I'm not going to fix it.  Complain at him.

Also I'm done with Skyrim modding, so I don't give a **** about my reputation.

Yeah, that's the theory, but it won't happen that way.  Even now, people complain about how "mod X broke my game, and it must be it because it's the last one I installed".  It's going to become even worse when those idiots have actually paid for the mod they think broke their game.

Can't argue that given how finger pointing is very alive in politics and everywhere else.
I gotta remember that people are idiots. This is also why I won't bother paying for mods (unless said mod ended up becoming its own game ie DayZ, Insurgency). Afterall, that is an option. Don't buy the mods and stick to official releases.

As Phantom pointed out, people will make things and put them up as a cashgrab.

This whole system would benefit from someone at Bethesda going through all the mods put up for Skyrim and either approving or nixing
"No"

 
Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
They're not just making things as a cashgrab, they're taking existing, established mods and making them worse so that they can charge for them.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
Holy crap, it has been years since I've seen a community so pissed off

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
http://wryemusings.com/Cathedral%20vs.%20Parlor.html

Somebody posted a link to this on IRC and I'm surprised it hasn't turned up in this thread yet, but it very clearly lays out the two major approaches to modding (especially in the context of the Elder Scrolls series).

(Worth noting is that in comparison with the Cathedral/Bazaar terminology for describing approaches to open source software, this "Cathedral" and that "Cathedral" have basically opposite meanings, which might cause some brief confusion.)
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<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

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<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

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* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

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Offline Polpolion

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
(Worth noting is that in comparison with the Cathedral/Bazaar terminology for describing approaches to open source software, this "Cathedral" and that "Cathedral" have basically opposite meanings, which might cause some brief confusion.)

Yeah, that had me pretty confused. As far as paying money for mods goes, I can't say that I'm sold on the idea. If modders charged for the mediaVPs, for example, I think you would fundamentally change the community here. And I doubt it would be for the better. I don't want to make it seem like I don't value your hard work, but adding money into the equation seems like it changes what modding is about. If you're going to charge for your mod I'm going to evaluate it as a commercial product, not as a product of your passion and creativity.

All this said, I haven't put much time into Skyrim, and I've invested even less into the Skyrim modding community (ie, none). I only care about the current steam situation for its implications about modding as a whole and games I actually care about.

edit: missed a word
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 06:16:30 pm by Polpolion »

 

Offline The E

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
Yeah, that had me pretty confused. As far as paying money for mods goes, I can't say that I'm sold on the idea. If modders charged for the mediaVPs, for example, I think you would fundamentally the community here. And I doubt it would be for the better. I don't want to make it seem like I don't value your hard work, but adding money into the equation seems like it changes what modding is about. If you're going to charge for your mod I'm going to evaluate it as a commercial product, not as a product of your passion and creativity.

Yeah, that's pretty much my stance too. I have absolutely no quarrel with someone making a mod and putting up a tip jar; I do like to express my appreciation for work well done, after all.
But turning mods into paid add-ons? No. At least not in the way Valve is handling it right now.
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
If modders charged for the mediaVPs, for example, I think you would fundamentally the community here. And I doubt it would be for the better.
Also, it would be illegal.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Beskargam

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Re: Mods for pay; internet declares doomsday
All this just makes me wish steam a decent competitor. Origin is only alright and doesn't have as much market, and I actually like steams originazition, library, friends list etc as opposed to just the game from gog.