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Author Topic: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]  (Read 30610 times)

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Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
I agree. That aspect of the game, I also hate - mostly because it doesn't allow you to explore alternatives after you've played through. But the game is as the game is. *shrug*

Again, a potential upgrade for RTW2.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
And also, sometimes you just know it's a good fight that you're going to have and it's worth fighting again. My strategy games are littered with saves that I can load up and be hurled immediately into a massive battle.

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Like I said - I fully agree.

Like I also said, it is possible to save at any time and backup your save folder. So, that allows you to do what you're after.

It is still a hassle that you shouldn't have to deal with.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Yay, Japan wins big. Hope the germans have to cede some colonies   :nod:

I think the forced ironman fits the theme very well and it seems unlikely that a single mistake or two make you loose. Also keeping your own save copies isn't that hard and you can disable auto-save completely (when things go wrong just close it and start again at the last manually saved point). They should still implement free saves in RTW 2 but also change the way random events are generated. I noticed that they are really random and reloading each month until you get a good result is possible. Tried it once and well, got everything from new tech, inevitable war and a succesful peace conference or nothing at all during the same month.

So I gave up that german game and played US instead. First war was against the Brits and saw some inconclusive large scale engagements with a few B sunk on both sides in a crazy short range night engagement (fish everywhere). After 3 years there were big protests on both sides and the war ended.
Second war was against Japan and saw no capital vs capital battle but tons of cruiser action. Japan lost literally all of its CLs and CAs but no DDs and B/BC.
Now it is 1922 and there is a huge arms race way beyond historical levels. Everyone is building 40000 t 27 knot BCs with 14/15 inch guns. I have something like a 26 knot BB, 15000 t heavier but otherwise similar to the real North Carolina (3*3 16 inch guns), design coming out of the docks soon to troll their BCs and BBs if they ever attack.

I never used manual control of each ship (mostly rear-admiral mode) and anything but my DDs is too stupid to utilize the torpedoes properly so I removed them and instead build a huge fleet of DDs to do the job.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 02:09:45 pm by Admiral MS »
Here goes scripting and copy paste coding
Freespace RTS Mod
Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
The gunship DD is a very viable concept, especially in the early game. I used torpboats early on because i) I was playing Captain's mode and ii) the IJN bonus to torp research would make them viable relatively quickly. Note that, if you have gunshps, you need to manually make them screen your capital ships when the enemy starts a torp run with their cans.

Also note that, in the late game, when your torpedo range is often greater than your 4'' and 5'' gun range, it might be good to add a centreline triple or quadruple mount, for some last-ditch anti-capital firepower on the DDs.

'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Actually how does the game handle arms escalation?  Does it key off of what the player's build programs or are AI nations going to go full Tillman by themselves?
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
The AI gets information on your designs (and the other nations' designs) the same way you do: through intel reports and by meeting your designs in combat. They also have some idea of the size of your fleet thanks to the Almanac. They then try to escalate by building to counter what you and your allies have. If you have a lot of DDs, for instance, it might build gunships, or French-style CLs with lots of popguns. If you're building heavily armoured big ships, it might try to swarm you with numbers of inferior but competitive capitals, or build bigger and stronger (if it has the tech).

So yes, the AI will escalate on its own and you never know how far it will go. You'll see some interesting tactical and design doctrines further down in this game.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
So if your build programs are relatively "sane" then the AI isn't going to start rolling out 80,000 short ton Maximum BBs just for the lols?
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
No. The AI also has a budget and a 50,000 ton BC can cost upwards of 6 million per month (spoilers, heh). If the AI can achieve its goals with something  cheaper, it will.

Also, no matter the size of your docks, you are hardcapped at 52k displacement tons (for reference, Nagato and Colorado were a good 32k tons, while the NCals reached up to 46k tons). So no Yamato expies (71k tons full load) with 17'' guns at 1930, sorry.

'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
I still don't understand why the AI decided in my game to build huge oversized BCs that eat up half of the budget of smaller nations during building. And they don't even counter any of my ships (or rather a 30000 ton design would also do). Well they do counter anything else by sheer firepower and size besides my mass produced DDs...
Here goes scripting and copy paste coding
Freespace RTS Mod
Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
It only takes one AI to start building something big (perhaps in response to a particularly heavy CA?) for the design to leak to another AI. And then dominoes.

Remember, the AI doesn't know whom you might ally yourself with in the future. So it needs to have an answer to everything on the field (or as much as it can)
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

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After the battle, it was clear to the Admiralty that Germany was now a non-entity. Its capital ship presence was now limited to five predread battleships, and a dreadnought under construction, that wouldn't see the sea for at least a year and a half. Her colonial fleet was decimated; her High Seas Fleet had just lost its flagship. Her light cruiser did not have the range or the firepower to challenge their Japanese analogues; her heavy cruisers were completely and utterly obsolete in the face of the Japanese battlecruisers and her submarine fleet was bleeding out boats to the Japanes 'Maru boys' faster than Germany could build them.



It came as no surprise to anyone that, in the start of September, the German government approached the Japanese with an offer of negotiated peace. The Japanese would receive considerable reparations and German colonial holdings - within reason.



Enter Count Katō Takaaki, Foreign Minister of Japan. In the words of Professor Sir Howe Francis Abraham Strachen ('Kaiser's Folly: the Second German-Japanese War'):

"Of all the world's statesmen in 1912, Katō proved the most adroit at using war for the purposes of policy. Domestically he exploited it to assert the dominance of the Foreign Ministry and of the cabinet in the making of Japan's foreign policy. Internationally he took the opportunity to redefine Japan's relationship with her Allies in South-East Asia and expand her sphere of influence beyond his country's wildest dreams. In doing so he was not simply outflanking the extremists opposed to him; he was also honouring his own belief that the Alliance should be a great power above and beyond those of Europe."


Japan's Foreign Ministry, 1912

Katō assumed a hard-as-nails approach that surprised both the Germans and his own critics in the Alliance. Instead of pushing for a decisive expulsion of the Germans from the Far East (an action that may have set a very worrying precedent for other European powers and even Japan's American allies), he asked for - and insisted on Germany ceding to Japan all its holdings in the small, thought-to-be-insignificant colony of Tanganyika, in the eastern coast of Africa. The port there was barely big enough to hold a resupply station and a cruiser on permanent station. Germany eventually accepted, happy to retain her bases in Korea and Java.



When asked in Parliament to explain the Government's reasoning for this stance, which left friendly Java and Korea under German occupation and away from the Alliance, Katō had this to say:

"It has been proven beyond all question that the power exerted by a country beyond its narrow borders lies in its economy, its Navy and its allies. We now have allies - allies that can trust us not to steal their holdings. We have our Navy - which has just conclusively proved its superiority against the enemy. And we have our economy, which will now, for the first time, grow beyond the narrow confines of the China Sea. For the first time, our Alliance extends far to the west, in lands we have previously only dreamt of and whose wealth, culture and spirit can shape and form us as Chinese learning has formed the Yamato-damashii since days of old.

"Consider what Germany no longer has. She has no friends - for she has shown herself to be weak. Should I have asked for Java or Korea? She would have had friends then, friends too concerned of our ambitions to lie low and make fun of her misfortune. She has no economy - millions worth of Marks now lie on the bottom of the Tsugumo strait and her merchant fleet is savaged by our brave raiders and submariners. She has no Navy that can threaten us. And, more importantly, now that she has yielded Tanganyika to us, she has no holdings whatsoever in the Indian Ocean. The chain connecting her Far East bases to her is forever broken.

"Make no mistake, Gentlemen. We may not have broken the German spirit - but we have forever broken their body. Germany shall never again be a colonial power and her strength shall but wane from now on."

"Tennōheika Banzai!"



The upcoming months were a period of frantic reorganisation for the Navy, following the expected slashing of the budget. Live-fire training was cut, immediately, with the end result of economising almost a million monthly. The construction of Kongou was frozen for two months, until the new budgetary situation had ironed itself out. And most significantly...



The costs of maintaining the obsolete Fusos and Asamas were getting to be exorbitant. Refitting the ships would be a waste of resources, as their armament was inferior to any and all battlecruisers (let alone dreadnoughts). In this (expected-to-be-peaceful) world, the Japanese Navy with its reduced budget could not be expected to both maintain them and construct more modern vessels.

And so, the order was given to scrap the entirety of the Old Fleet.

However, while the heavy cruisers and Hatsuse went to the breakers, fate had a different design in store for the Fuso. By popular subscription, the 'Lady of China' - the only predread in world history to ever go against a battlecruiser and win - was bought from the scrapper and turned into a Naval museum in Yokosuka. She is stricken from the Navy lists, but still flies the War Ensign to this day.


Fuso in Yokosuka, 1912. The turret near the ship is the front turret of Hatsuse, the main mast of which is also preserved as a monument in Sasebo.



-END PART 3-
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 07:40:17 pm by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
And as an OOC note: yes, I did just send Paul_von_Lettow-Vorbeck home without firing a single shot against him.  :lol:
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
o7 Fuso
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
She was my darling and I loved her dearly. It was so hard pushing that 'scrap' button. :(

(and yes, now I know that you can keep darling ships forever in mothballs, but then I didn't).
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 05:24:14 pm by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline crizza

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Use that name again... Fuso reborn?
Check out my blog:

http://geo.schulzbert.de/

  

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
May their steel find its way into hulls of the next generation and thus imbue the future protectors of the Empire with the tradition of victory of the old.
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Use that name again... Fuso reborn?

 ;) ;7
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

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Expanding and Consolidating
- PART 4 -
The Grinding Years





Shortly after the end of the war, the new docks in Yokosuka and Sasebo were completed. In an interesting development, Fairfield Shipbuilding & Engineering Company, taking advantage of the increasingly friendly relations between the US, Great Britain and Japan decided to outsource the construction of the massive cruise liner Empress of Japan (built for Canadian Pacific Steamships) to the Sasebo shipyards. Further small modifications were required and, by the end of the month, Japan could plan her first 31k ton warships with the certainty that she had the infrastructure to support them.



During the same month, the First Balkan Wars erupted, between fledgling Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria and the declining Ottoman Empire. The European Powers, as expected, rushed to take advantage of the situation, via lobbying, back-room dealings and by supporting different camps. Japan stayed out of the conflict (she had no interest in the region and had her hands full coming out of the post-war depression) but her Foreign Ministry kept a close eye on the developments. Minister Katō was particularly worried by the underhanded tactics used by the French side to gather support in the Balkans, as he felt that similar tactics might be used against Japan's allies in the South China Sea.



In January, recycled steel from the scrapped Hatsuse found its way to the Kongou construction project, where it was recognised that something in the process of re-casting, and refining the steel had considerably increased its strength in relation to its weight. A couple of extra steps were introduced in the manufacturing process, to take advantage of the new developments.



Desperate for any sort of budgetary increase, the Navy also sold the licence to improved boiler designs to the Americans. Washington rejoiced in an appropriately grovelling fashion and financed Kongou's construction for three months.



And, interestingly, the Russians once again proved they couldn't keep it in their pants, as a Japanese agent returned with a disdainful look on her face and the designs for their new light cruiser.





Seriously, Russia? A popgun cruiser? With 3 inches of belt armour? And a 21 knot top speed?

Ugh, I don't know why you're even a Great Power. Go home, Russia, you're drunk.



There were a few funds left over from America's contribution, so the Admiralty ordered further expansions of the dockyards.



Followed by Canadian and Brazilian shipbuilders immediately showing interest in investing further in the Japanese dockyards. The contracts negotiated woula allow a further immediate increase in the maximum dock size, to 33k tons.



And in May, the Japanese technological lead opened further with the introduction of the first functional superheaters.



Take notes, Russians. This is a good light cruiser design.

For 1901.

Heyo.





Also, Poi.



OK, back to serious storytelling.



The one thing that really hindered Japanese capital ship development was weapons technology. Kongou would be a capable battlecruiser, but weapons research was stagnating, with the highest caliber guns produced in Japan being her 12 inchers.



In August, the post-war economic slump finally came at an end. The Navy's budget climbed into the black; private and national industry boomed in Japan. For the first time, the Government turned their eyes westwards, to East Africa, for more than just administration of their new holdings.





The ambitious October attempt to expand Japanese influence to West Africa failed. The Navy was still sluggish and lethargic in responding to this, one of the best opportunities that had fallen into Japan's lap. There was considerable embarrassment all around, but the end result was, on hindsight, not disastrous for Japan. This was not the time to expand further. This was the time to consolidate; and truly secure what Japan had gained.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 07:40:49 pm by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Enioch

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It was clear to the Japanese Government that her new colonial possessions had to be carefully managed, with the clear goal of becoming a true asset to the Alliance, instead of a millstone around their neck. Administrators, engineers, medical specialists, military consultants and prospectors had been dispatched to get an impression of what the Japanese had inherited from the Germans and to propose a plan of integrating what was now known as 'Japanese East Africa' into the Alliance.

In October 1913, the first detailed reports came in; the situation was both better and worse than expected.

The good news were that Japan had, without truly knowing it, acquired one of the richest and and most valuable areas in eastern Africa. The new territories stretched from the coasts of Tanzania to the great lakes of the African interior: Lake Victoria, Lake Tanganyika and Lake Nyasa. To the north, the entirety of the Serengeti with all its natural wealth, flora and fauna were now Japanese. The massive sisal- and rubber-tree plantations started by the Germans were ready to now supply the Alliance factories. And another surprise awaited the stunned Japanese topographers, something that really spoke to their Yamato-damashii.



In this far-off land, they had found Mt. Fuji's long-lost onii-san.

When the first photographs were brought back to Japan and the representatives demonstrated their findings in a week-long conference in Kyoto, attended by the Alliance's elite, this was what forever banished any doubts that Japan had done well.

The bad news were that Germany, in its two decades of administration, had failed to make East Africa profitable. Every year, the colony had to be heavily subsidised by the German Government and it promised to be a similar weight to the Alliance's budget in the years to come.

More importantly, with the exception of economic returns, the Germans had perhaps done too good a job. The local tribes had experienced the benefits of German medicine; German schooling; German technology and infrastructure. An extensive railway (partly still under construction and originally slotted to complete in 1914) connected the port of Tanga to the interior, as far as Lake Tanganyika and the commercial harbour of Tanga knew heavy traffic, despite its limited capacity to support a military fleet.

This made the locals rather hostile towards a regime change. The Alliance would have to, somehow, one-up the Germans in their own game, if they expected to truly establish themselves in the area.

It would be a long and difficult process, but the Alliance had two notable things to offer, which the Germans never could:

Firstly, (and surprisingly) a higher budget. The economy of Japan was still smaller in absolute numbers than that of the Germans - but it was a) concentrated, with a larger percentage being available for colonial support, b) growing rapidly, thanks to trade and economic partnerships with the USA and other countries and c) supported by a large Alliance, eager to accept a new member into its midst. As an end result, the net amount that the Alliance was willing to pour into East Africa, in the first year of their administraion alone, rivalled Germany's budget for the colony in the last three years combined.

Secondly, (and that was the real deciding element in the long run), the Japanese had no interest in establishing a colony or protectorate along the European model. The goal of the East African Administration (東アフリカ政権 - Higashiafurika seiken) was to guide the development of the region in such a way as to make it semi-autonomous, with an administration comprised almost entirely by natives within a projected timeframe of two decades; not unlike what was currently underway for Sumatra and Japan's Polynesian holdings.



The Navy took up its own part of the burden, by spending a considerable sum of its monthly budget in dredging up and improving the military harbour installations of Tanga. They also deployed the veteran cruisers Izumi and Naniwa with a destroyer escort permanently on-station. Promising candidates and volunteers for crewmembers were selected among the native Askari (colonial) troops. The natives had, so far, been banned from naval service by the German authorities; this gesture of trust by the Japanese generated no little amount of goodwill. The already-multinational character of the crews also helped mitigate native hostility and created a true melting-pot environment.



The Navy also took up the entirety of the expenses for the 1913 International Naval Gathering, held in Sasebo. The three-week gathering saw ships from every Power gather in Japan and included a regatta. It gave the diplomats time and opportunity to diplome and the Navy men the chance to sneak looks onto enemy ships. The Japanese Navy was happy to note that they were not falling behind.



Yet there remained the problem of Japan's lack of Battleships. The Yashima, a twelve-12'' monster was proposed but never built - lack of funds was a persistant problem for the Japanese.



The new year started with China approaching Japan for support. France had been making angry noises and casting meaningful looks towards the Hong Kong area. Japan covertly arranged for a three-way meeting with the English authorities and agreed to provide 4'' field artillery, based on naval gun designs, to her allies. France, eventually, backed off - but the event massively raised Japan's prestige among her Allies, was a boon for the Navy's budget and also left the English grimly satisfied and the French and Germans (oh so eager to see their rivals humiliated) seething.



In March, the R & D department presented further improvements on targeting systems to the Admiralty and there was much rejoicing.



And they also presented an improved 9'' gun prototype. Unfortunately, the gun was too small for use in a battlecruiser and to big for use in a light cruiser. The Admiralty had nothing to use it on. So there was less rejoicing.



March also marked the completion of the new docks. Japan could now build warships of up to 37,000 tons.





And in April, Great Britain approached the Admiralty with a 'thank you' note for their help in the China crisis and with a proposal for the Japanese who, maybe, would like to purchase the latest British designs on turret miniaturisation for a bargain price?



And then, in June, the international Hague Convention was held - a "step towards true peace", it was called. The Japanese were quite suspicious. This had Germany written all over it - any limitations on ship or weapon designs would allow the Kaiser's Navy time and opportunities to catch up. So, it was a very angry and very, very determined Foreign Minister Katō who assembled his delegation and departed Kyoto, on the 2nd of June 1914.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 07:41:15 pm by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)