Author Topic: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****  (Read 17510 times)

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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
I took that advice from you a while ago and... was quite disappointed.

I am bummed to learn that, but then I remember, aren't you also quite down on things like Star Trek II?

LOL I'm just teasing you. I am bummed, and I have to rethink it, it may well be that I had such low expectations of Enterprise in general that when I got to watch ENT season 4, I was just overwhelmed by what could just possibly be average Trek. OTOH, it seems to me that what you get out from Star Trek is usually the episodic "sci fi story of the week", so homaged (or cringely copy-pasted?) by things like The Orville and so on. So yeah, if you go from that expectation, I see where your disappointment was born. ENT 4 drives itself through developing what it should always been about, a preequel exercise in exploring the begginings of a united federation of planets.

I do agree with some of what you say about VOY, I do have it as a kind of guilty pleasure of my own. There are a bunch of VOY episodes which are pretty good, but most of them are just generic episodic trek that were kind of already aging under TNG (and let's do a lobotomy of the parts of our brains that keep telling us half of the themes and plots in VOY just don't make any sense whatsoever in its own premised setting in the first place, before we watch any of it).

I mean, it's kind of a tell that one of the best episodes of VOY that would otherwise brilliantly express its premise and setting is actually happening in an alternate timeline so that by the end of the two parter "Year of Hell" they can just pretend it was all just a bad dream and so they can continue having black coffee while shooting infinite quantum torpedoes from their eternally shiny bridge.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 04:55:03 am by Luis Dias »

 

Offline The E

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
Regarding Nimoy, that ... wasn't the point. I get what you say, but the funny part is that the whole "Real Spock" stuff isn't actually canon (it cannot be so, it has to be at least 25% different), although it's pretty much headcanon by everyone who watched it. It's a "it's not really canon but it's totally canon wink wink" scenario that is just funny to me. It even opens up philosophical questions if you would be so inclined!

So because I'm a bit curious about this, I tried to dig around where this "25% different" thing came from.
From what I can tell, it started as something John Eaves (the designer responsible for the Enterprise's look in Discovery) said. According to him, one of the guidelines he was given was that the Disco Enterprise should be "25% different" from the original Matt Jeffries design; he speculated that this was for legal reasons. This piece of trivia made the rounds for a bit, until CBS heard of it and issued a statement denying that there were legal reasons for the redesign (source).

Now, it could very well be that CBS is lying about this. But, again, why would they? It's unambiguously clear that CBS owns the IP for all Star Trek TV shows; whatever the reasoning behind the guidelines Eaves got, they are not explainable through IP law constraints.

(And that's before we get into the discussion of just what the **** "25% different" even means in this context. What's a "25% different" version of Spock?)
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
That seems a good critique.

Meanwhile, I finally found out the source of all of these changes. Check it out! For real now!


 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
That guy................. :nono:



Edit-

Some of the lines on the latest episode sound like the writers weren't even listening to what they were writing.


This is an approximation of what I remember-

"There is no word for the unique pain of uncertainty. "

It's pretty dumb, because the word is- *uncertainty.*


I mean,  was I the only one who noticed that?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 03:02:38 pm by Colonol Dekker »
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Offline Ulala

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
 The writing in the show is regularly lackluster, imho. The style and effects do look top notch, however.
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
The writing in the show is regularly lackluster, imho.

There have been a number of elements which could have been handled better, I agree, most of that however seem to be premature commitment to characters and plot points (looking at most of the Section 31-stuff prior to today's episode) - meaning they are kinda there hovering around without connection until the rest of the show catches up. But it is an improvement over Season 1, as they got rid of the red herrings, and expanded the scope of character development to more members of the crew (which in a way absolves the fact that stuff takes a while to catch up).

But as always the quality of the wirting generally only reveals itself once we have the full sweep of the seaons in front of us.

ps. A character resurrection doesn't fix what was wrong about that character's death BTW. Even if you make a really good character arc for at least two characters out of said resurrection (not to mention if you use it to paralell the development of two other characters).
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

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Offline Kiloku

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****

4. Tilly is also the best
I got a thing for characters who are, on a fundamental level, very stoked about being in space, leave me alone.

I love Tilly too, but I don't think she's very stoked about being in space...
She's just very stoked about absolutely EVERYTHING


I have skipped the rest of the thread as I've only watched the first two episodes of season 2.
I like the show, it was really funny to read some accidental predictions, some non-accidental predictions, and some predictions where it turned out that the opposite happened.

My favorite part of the thread was someone (Luis I think, but I'm not gonna scroll back through 12 pages of thread) saying Tilly was obviously going to turn evil. And a while later we meet CAPTAIN KILLY. The prediction kinda came true, but not quite, right.

Captain Saru is the best, I hope the "joint custody" ends soon to leave him in command. 

Burnham is interesting, I think her weird moments where she's too driven by emotion (and inevitably causes problems) are simply the inherent imbalance of being human while raised vulcan. It's not quite the same as being half-and-half such as Spock. I have to admit, though (and hope that you guys don't burn me at the stake for that), that I haven't watched any of the shows where he appears, so I barely know what Spock is really like, only what external media shows about him.

Stamets is one of my favorite characters, I think he's a bit underrated mostly by how little people mention him. His outlook towards science is so refreshing, he sees it as more than means to an end, some clinical rationalistic-only domain, instead he sees the beauty in the universe, and he wants to get up close and personal with that beauty to learn more and more about it. He is also sick of this ship/t by now and deserves a long vacation. In fact he was sick of it when the show started, but I digress.

I want to know more about the robot lady who seems really advanced for that era. 
I also want Spock to show up.
I like the secondary characters in the bridge crew too.  I really enjoyed the scene in S02E01 where Burnham needs them to say they got the captain's back during that high-speed EVA and they're frantically/wordlessly trying to figure out what to say since it's impossible for them to promise anything at that point.


Given that this show seems to be divisive, I'll put a "disclaimer" that I rarely say bad things about shows I don't drop because I'm easy to please and I like just about everything. If I drop/don't like something, it's usually because it bored me, not because it annoyed/irked me.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 09:14:01 am by Kiloku »

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
This weeks episode made clear why they needed to bring Captain Pike into the show.

And yes, Sisko has to move over - Pike is my Captain now. :D
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nysa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
I agree about Pikey.


But I hate tilly. ......... I hate her so damn much.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
If they don't make Pike a permanent character on this show, they are making a huge mistake.  He's freaking awesome.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****- AKA "Captain Pike Fanclub"
When he threw himself on the overloading phaser,  I knew he was the one. #nohomo
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
   Doublepost warning 


Man that last episode........ A lot of buildup but no payoff :/
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Offline The E

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
That's what two-parter episodes are like.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
There was too much filler and cliché in this one.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
Doubley-bubbly post again....

Spoiler:
Wellp,  looks like it's all over.....I expected more :C also I wanted Po siege weapons to show.   Blast doors can handle a HUGE torpedo blast. (The blast from a huge torpedo).  Everything is now retconned and I don't know own if stamitz was dreaming the while doc-wife thing on his deathbed or not.
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Offline The E

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
The finale was a mess.

During the production of the show, the season order was expanded by one episode, and I think this is what it led to.

Now, the story overall was fine; everything is tied up neatly with canon-friendly explanations for why Discovery or Burnham have never been mentioned before, and Discovery herself has been unshackled from the constraints of being a prequel show and can explore new things.

The execution, however, was not.
With few exceptions, Star Trek has never been good at big battles (Those exceptions all happening exclusively in DS9), and this continues that trend. In this case, the big space battle is ... devoid of impact, really. Things explode left and right, and none of it seems to have an impact; Enterprise and Discovery suddenly turn into fleet carriers with hundreds if not thousands of parasite craft which seem to be exclusively used to provide an excuse to put an explosion on the screen, there's a bunch of capital ships that do not seem to do anything, Enterprise and Discovery spend a lot of time sitting idle in space tanking hits.... Resurrection Ship or Severed Dreams this is not.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they're going to do with the series in Season 3. They really got the crew dynamics down this season; and that's always the most important bit for a show like this.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
Season 3?


I'd happily let it die now.   I agree completely with the feel of the battle, but I interpet the crew dynamic as wooden and stereotypical.   Obviously your milage will vary and you're entitled to like what you like about the show.  I like pike but only because he's got good jawline and is old school nostalgia captain.   Not much depth to any of the crew really. 
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
So Red Letter Media finally got around to re:viewing the second season. They were not kind.


Actually, maybe they were.
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Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
Ouch.

I stopped watching by episode 5 of season 2 when Burnham gave that "words describe who we are" speech. It was like it was written by a high schooler that was struggling with what words to use so they decided to write about what words to use. I really wanted to give it a chance, but it just got too frustrating to watch, in fact I probably wouldn't have gotten as far as I did if it didn't have Star Trek in the title.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
So Red Letter Media finally got around to re:viewing the second season. They were not kind.
*snip*
Actually, maybe they were.

Well, just to reveal my biases against RLM, it is hardly suprising - considering the man/men who does their video reviews has never met a sentiment he can't perfomatively man-rage against.

That's not to say Season 2 of Discovery as whole is some kind of landmark - Individual scenes can qualify for "best in fanchise", but as a season it too reliant of moment to moment effect, even with you use Sentimentalism as primary measure.



when Burnham gave that "words describe who we are" speech. It was like it was written by a high schooler that was struggling with what words to use so they decided to write about what words to use. I really wanted to give it a chance, but it just got too frustrating to watch,

"Scene designed to be awkward was awkward. Worst scene EVA!!!"

As discussed earlier, Burnham's whole conflict in this seaons is her expertise and technical proficency running against the fact that she has some emotional growing up to do (hence Spock, hence Saruu-Dad, hence inspringing uncle Christopher)
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nysa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."