[Blue Lion]

Originally posted by Tiara


You really are ignorant, aren't you?

I didn't mean that I don't appreciate the money that the US gives but if the states would give 4% (Like some other countries) many problems around the globe could be solved.

and 4% of our GNP could solve a lot of our problems. I'd rather the money go here instead.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Blue Lion


Cause you know we're out there killing babies and such. That's the only reason we're going over there, to commit war crimes. So thank god we can't be prosecuted, this is the chance we've been waiting for!

I'm sure certain US soldiers would be very happy to feel free to be allowed  to, for example, torture Afghan POWs. No-one should have that freedom, regardless of good intentions or not.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by Blue Lion


and 4% of our GNP could solve a lot of our problems. I'd rather the money go here instead.

if the other 96% doesn't solve your problems that 4% extra won't make a difference

[an0n]

Originally posted by aldo_14
I'm sure certain US soldiers would be very happy to feel free to be allowed  to, for example, torture Afghan POWs. No-one should have that freedom, regardless of good intentions or not.

Yeah, and rape the more attractive of the population.

But then again, that kinda **** happens wether they've got immunity or not.

But I do think POW's (if they're at war for a decent reason), who've joined their armed forces voluntarily should be allowed to be tortured and killed.

[Kellan]

Originally posted by aldo_14
I'm sure certain US soldiers would be very happy to feel free to be allowed  to, for example, torture Afghan POWs. No-one should have that freedom, regardless of good intentions or not.

If anything goes, then it usually will.

[GenesisToBe]

Originally posted by Kellan


If anything goes, then it usually will.

Sad... But true...

[Kellan]

Originally posted by GenesisToBe
Sad... But true...

Trusims usually are true.

[Mr Carrot]

Those were the UN forces, the UN council itself voted unanmously to proceede with milliatry action.... Russia was boycotting at the time because of the refusal to recognise Mao Tse Tung's Peoples Revolutionary Party as the real government of China over the Tiwanese exiles.

[deep_eyes]

Originally posted by Bobboau
unless you bomb them from 20,000 feet

and it is our busnes, he would like nothing better than to send a nuke into NY harbor, and as long as he sits there he is a constant looming threat,
are you going to wait untill after someone nukes Paris before you get concerned about him?

<<<  -    Looks @ Bobboau when he says "nukes NY harbor"... and remembers "sum of all fears".....

this real life, if he gonna nuke anything, it be his own damn self to martyr himself. if he's smart politically.

and or either this, he;s just a guy with power to his head, when he's under pressure he tries to move a lil under it all, and we keep missing his damn head with the meat cleaver.

beyond that propaganda or not, i dun care, they (the goverment) should say oops we dropped a cup on the perverbial "BUTTON" and nuke that part of the world of the planet. instant cleansing of terror in that region...
:devil:

[CP5670]

If anything goes, then it usually will.

Including, say, Vasudans invading the planet and taking all the headz?

I'm sure certain US soldiers would be very happy to feel free to be allowed to, for example, torture Afghan POWs. No-one should have that freedom, regardless of good intentions or not.

I say they "should" have the freedom to do whatever they please if they have the material capability. Who is to say who is right or not?

beyond that propaganda or not, i dun care, they (the goverment) should say oops we dropped a cup on the perverbial "BUTTON" and nuke that part of the world of the planet. instant cleansing of terror in that region...

[icespeed]

Originally posted by CP5670



I say they "should" have the freedom to do whatever they please if they have the material capability. Who is to say who is right or not?

No one should blame someone else cos everyone is wrong. But that doesn't mean you can't try to behave well ourselves. If the whole world worked your way, CP, we'd already be all dead from nuclear war.

[CP5670]

Well, how come we are not dead yet? Because, frankly, that is the way the world works, and furthermore, that is the only way it can work if the independent nation system of today is to exist. Actually, in any war what would happen is that some would die and the rest would still be around, and the ones that survive would carry the civilization forward themselves.

[vyper]

And yet again this debate on military action has deteriorated into a bloody debate on ethics of combat.  

No man has the right to torture another. Every human being has certain undeniable rights, no matter how "bad" that person is. If we treat them any less humanely then we ourselves become as "bad" as them. This is what we fight for currently, and this is what we (the allies of the UK,USA) have always fought for. We cannot abandon our principles when they become inconvenient.

The best way to think about this is from a personal perspective:
"Age doesn't make you a man." Think about it.

[Snakeseyes]

Originally posted by CP5670
...Because, frankly, that is the way the world works, and furthermore, that is the only way it can work if the independent nation system of today is to exist...

Actualy, CP5670, this is the only way we 've ever tried. In Antiquity, Medieval age, in the present. But as the years pass, we, humans, want to think that our race , the human race, advances in more ways than that of technology. But seeing the world and what is happening, I believe that we never left the dark ages. We are "recycle" the same mistakes. And frankly, I don't believe that we, the humans, will destroy ourselves. And however much harsh is what I 'm gonna say, we deserve it and it will be unjust if we ever survive.

[CP5670]

Actualy, CP5670, this is the only way we 've ever tried. In Antiquity, Medieval age, in the present. But as the years pass, we, humans, want to think that our race , the human race, advances in more ways than that of technology. But seeing the world and what is happening, I believe that we never left the dark ages. We are "recycle" the same mistakes. And frankly, I don't believe that we, the humans, will destroy ourselves. And however much harsh is what I 'm gonna say, we deserve it and it will be unjust if we ever survive.

Think about it, though. How can a system with independent national entities exist with this type of strict moral adherence? This is not a completely failsafe solution, and there is always the possibility that a Hitler-type conqueror comes up somewhere in the world, and not adhering to any ethics is going to give such a guy a significant advantage in a conflict. (note the appeasement policy of the Allies before WW2) The only way in which we have advanced, and probably the only way in which we can advance, is in our mastery of knowledge, and that is really all that matters.

No man has the right to torture another. Every human being has certain undeniable rights, no matter how "bad" that person is. If we treat them any less humanely then we ourselves become as "bad" as them. This is what we fight for currently, and this is what we (the allies of the UK,USA) have always fought for. We cannot abandon our principles when they become inconvenient.

We're not fighting for any principles in the first place, though. We are fighting for our survival and nothing more. Also, nobody has any rights in the absolute anyway; these "rights" are simply defined by the political situation at the time.

[vyper]

Originally posted by CP5670
Also, nobody has any rights in the absolute anyway; these "rights" are simply defined by the political situation at the time.

I propound that this is a false premise. The concept of rights is derived from the idea of "right and wrong". This itself comes from the simple fact that the life of the just (right) man is more profitable (in both social and economic terms) than that of the unjust man (wrong).

Now, I imagine you would argue that many men in our world are unjust and live well. This is also a false premise. When you live unjustly, you are spurning the idea of a just life and therefore are surrounded by other unjust men - whom are just as ruthless and dangerous as you are.

So therefore - rights are a nescessity, if you are a just man.

[CP5670]

Okay, now tell me how one can objectively determine whether a given action we can perform is right/just or wrong/unjust.

[Blue Lion]

You can't, there is no list from that we can reference for this kinda stuff

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Blue Lion
You can't, there is no list from that we can reference for this kinda stuff

It's an intrinsic part of human behaviour.... it's reflected in our society and religions, and is what kept us alive when we were unevolved animals living in huddled packs in caves.

[CP5670]

There is no such thing as an intrinsic part of human behavior. Why did Hitler not have it, and more importantly, how was he able to convince millions to also ditch it? Trying to defend morals with rationality is frankly a futile exercise.