[Silver_Scythe]

Originally posted by Tiara


Again you act as if we kknow everything... WE DON'T! He might have dozens of 'm in a secret bunker somewhere...

BTW, The alqaida have demonstrated the capability to release chemical gasses. It was on the news. And not scared of a nuke? Wait till it blows near your...

That was cyanide with sulferic acid not as bad as it could be. *thinks about VEHIX*

[Kellan]

Originally posted by Silver_Scythe

That was cyanide with sulferic acid not as bad as it could be. *thinks about VEHIX*

I say Smallpox. Go Smallpox! Go Smallpox! We're not vaccinated! And there's no cure! Wooh!

[Zeronet]

Occupation? Where are ppl getting all these ideas from? One bullet can solve the problem, because the Regime in Iraq consists of one person, Sadamn Hussien. Let me quote something from the telegraph.

"his regime is grounded in fear, paranoia and cruelty. His food is checked for poision and radiation by nuclear scientists. He is the auther of bad books that no one dares criticise. He enjoys films like "The Godfather"- a good choice, for he is a man who can weep even as he orders his opponents to be wiped out. Welcome to the world of Saddamn Hussien."

Another quote "He is now 65, an old man, but because his power is grounded in fear, not affection, he cannot be seen to age."

Loads of losses? Fanatical armies? His people tried to rebell against him, he keeps them inline through fear and imtimidation. If someone says a bad word against him, bang they are shot dead. His own people hate him, he blames the crippling of the state on the UN and US, but his people understand its his fault, a quote "Whenever he started blaming Americans for this and that, we would look at each other and roll our eyes" says Sabah Khalifa Khodada, a former Iraqi major.

[Kellan]

Originally posted by Zeronet
Occupation? Where are ppl getting all these ideas from? One bullet can solve the problem, because the Regime in Iraq consists of one person, Sadamn Hussien. Let me quote something from the telegraph.

First of all, let me stop you there. You're quoting from the Telegraph, a right-wing Tory rag that carries traditional right-wing Tory ideas - such as a love for wars, regardless of requirement. And unconditional support for the military.

Second, Saddam can't run the country on his own. It's physically impossible. He would have to be surrounded by a large number of advisors, ministers and administrators who liked him to some degree - the people who make the decisions. He would also have to have a loyal cadre of People Who Carry Guns™, to protect him from Other Disgruntled People With Guns And Rocks. So yeah, street fighting, bombing cities flat. That kind of thing.

Third, Saddam has at least one son.

Loads of losses? Fanatical armies? His people tried to rebell against him, he keeps them inline through fear and imtimidation. If someone says a bad word against him, bang they are shot dead. His own people hate him, he blames the crippling of the state on the UN and US, but his people understand its his fault, a quote "Whenever he started blaming Americans for this and that, we would look at each other and roll our eyes" says Sabah Khalifa Khodada, a former Iraqi major. [/B]

How surprising that an Iraqi defector dislikes Saddam Hussain. Really, you're killing me. No, really.

[Kellan]

I await the next answer from the "MIGHT is RIGHT!" brigade with barely-contained glee.

[Zeronet]

This report is not opinion, its based on fact, this guy rose to power by executing 60 of his rivals in the Revolutionary Council.
Shoot Saddamn, and his whole government will collapse around him, of course he doesnt think up everything. He just orders the 20ft high posters of himself to be built. His bodyguards are called the Al Himaya, he does have sons, he executed his sons-inlaw because they fled to jordan and spilled state secrets on biological, chemcial and nuclear weapon programs and his son Uday is paralysed from the waist down after getting shot in Baghdad, a warning to Saddamn. The major evidence that Saddamn is hated, is the rebellion in 1991, which was brutally(gassed, bombed) put down. Acording to my logic, you dont rebel against a leader you like. After the restoration of the Baghdad palace, the workers were marched out with sacks over their heads and hanged one by one. He doesnt walk in public because its too dangerous and people will see his limp.

[LtNarol]

I dont have much time, so I havent read all the posts since page 2, so Im sorry if this has been said.

Saddam is not afraid of a nuclear reprisal from the US.  Why you ask? Because all he needs to do is build his silos and production plants underground and dig himself in, and then fire them off one after another because the US will NOT use nukes on the general population of Iraq, simply because the general population of Iraq wants Saddam out as much as the US.  Even if the US does use nukes on the general population, do you really think Saddam would care?  As long as the bombs cant get to him, he's happy.  This is exactly why we know he does not have any nukes because if he did there'd be a nuclear winter in North America.

He has literally nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain, he also happens to hate the US with a vengeance.

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by Kellan
I await the next answer from the "MIGHT is RIGHT!" brigade with barely-contained glee.

What would you do? Is everyone ignoring the horrible acts he commited against his own people simply because they dont like the US? Do people think the No Fly zone exists for other reasons besides preventing Saddamn bombing his people(which he used to do)

[Kellan]

Originally posted by Zeronet
The major evidence that Saddamn is hated, is the rebellion in 1991, which was brutally(gassed, bombed) put down. Acording to my logic, you dont rebel against a leader you like. After the restoration of the Baghdad palace, the workers were marched out with sacks over their heads and hanged one by one. He doesnt walk in public because its too dangerous and people will see his limp.

So an 11 year-old rebellion is reason to go to war? IIRC, the only reason that said rebellion took place was because Bush Snr. told the revolutionary leaders that he would support them in their uprising. Which he did not. Hence, they all died.

On the subject, there are always rebellions against unpopular dictators and they are always put down brutally. It's just that more often than not, they're Western-sponsored dictators. If you're going to lay down the law that unpopular unelected leaders should be deposed, Zeronet, at least do it uniformly. It reeks of hipocrisy otherwise.

Just like the rest of the Western response, so maybe it makes sense.

[an0n]

Originally posted by Zeronet
Acording to my logic, you dont rebel against a leader you like

Duh. But it's a matter of how many people dislike him. Just because a few malcontents decide to start some trouble doesn't mean the rest hate him. A classica example of this noisy minority syndrome is football hooliganism. A few retards start causing trouble and immediately everyone worldwide thinks all british fans are violent retards.

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by LtNarol
I dont have much time, so I havent read all the posts since page 2, so Im sorry if this has been said.

Saddam is not afraid of a nuclear reprisal from the US.  Why you ask? Because all he needs to do is build his silos and production plants underground and dig himself in, and then fire them off one after another because the US will NOT use nukes on the general population of Iraq, simply because the general population of Iraq wants Saddam out as much as the US.  Even if the US does use nukes on the general population, do you really think Saddam would care?  As long as the bombs cant get to him, he's happy.  This is exactly why we know he does not have any nukes because if he did there'd be a nuclear winter in North America.

He has literally nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain, he also happens to hate the US with a vengeance.

Saddamn only cares about power, he doesnt care much about money, as much as he does vanity. He proclaims he is related to Mohammed, statues, posters are all over Iraq. He simply wants to be known and famous, forever.

[an0n]

Z: You're wrong. Shut up! No matter how much you argue, it won't make you right. And you can spout 'facts' all you want, but the fact of the matter is that you're just spouting propaganda from some of the most biased sources known to man. If you want to understand what's really going on, don't read articles and opinions, read facts and figures and make up your own opinion from them instead of some pseudo opinion formed from the mush of brainwashing the media has thrown at you.

Fight the power!

[Kellan]

Originally posted by Zeronet
What would you do? Is everyone ignoring the horrible acts he commited against his own people simply because they dont like the US? Do people think the No Fly zone exists for other reasons besides preventing Saddamn bombing his people(which he used to do)

Since you ask so nicely...

1. Send weapons inspectors into Iraq. Make clear that if Saddam defies us, we'll go to war.
2. Re-establish diplomatic relations with Iraq, fund non-military reconstruction based on conditions of peace and non-violence. If Saddam is so unpopular he should be desperate to improve his public image with this.
3. Make a series of escalatingly liberal demands of Saddam. At best, we'd get them. At worst, we'd go to war and be in no worse a position than for having not tried.

Basically, you're still missing the point. I don't oppose all war per se, it's just that at the present moment war is unneccessary. All non-military options have not been exhausted. Saddam presents no more of a threat now than he did 5 years ago. And don't tell me that the West has suddenly grown a conscience about all those people Saddam killed.

In addition, you think a war makes things happy and shiny? Wars are dirty. Wars leave damage. Damage must be repaired, and I have no confidence that the West will finance this in order to improve the lot of the ordinary Iraqi people.

[Kellan]

Originally posted by an0n
Z: You're wrong. Shut up! No matter how much you argue, it won't make you right. And you can spout 'facts' all you want, but the fact of the matter is that you're just spouting propaganda from some of the most biased sources known to man. If you want to understand what's really going on, don't read articles and opinions, read facts and figures and make up your own opinion from them instead of some pseudo opinion formed from the mush of brainwashing the media has thrown at you.

Fight the power!

I never thought that I'd be thanking the Lord for an0n as the voice of reason. But still...it's nice to have you around, man.

As for the rebellion thing: I fully agree. Just because a few thousand protesters claim that the government is wrong and capitalism is wrong every May Day doesn't mean there's a popular uprising. Nor does it mean that we need to US Army to depose Tony Blair for us.

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by an0n
A classica example of this noisy minority syndrome is football hooliganism. A few retards start causing trouble and immediately everyone worldwide thinks all british fans are violent retards.

Japan were crapping themselves about this. Most shops even took out special hooligan insurance and many others just didnt open while English fans were there. Dont think very much actually happened in the end. Shame, I would have liked to see the Japanese police deal with those thugs. They dont take any crap it would seem.

[an0n]

Originally posted by Kellan
I never thought that I'd be thanking the Lord for an0n as the voice of reason. But still...it's nice to have you around, man.

No! I'm melting...meeeeltiiiinngg.....Oh, what world..........

Nor does it mean that we need to US Army to depose Tony Blair for us.

Don't worry, they'll get to that soon enough.

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by Kellan

As for the rebellion thing: I fully agree. Just because a few thousand protesters claim that the government is wrong and capitalism is wrong every May Day doesn't mean there's a popular uprising.

I wouldnt be so sure about that, May Day seems to be getting bigger and bigger and drawing some very resectable people as well. I think it says something that our leaders have to meet in totally remote areas or even warships to hide from their own people. Also something that many Americans may not realise is that whenever Bush goes anywhere in Europe there are usually significant numbers of demonstrators.

Capitalism is clearly flawed at worst unethical. Sadly up until now its been the best, most stable option for most of the world. Doesnt mean we have to stick with it and I believe that if developed countries dont run into any big problems that distract them that their governments will eventually be forced by popular uprisings to change bit by bit to better systems.

Nor does it mean that we need to US Army to depose Tony Blair for us.

What on earth are you talking about?

[vyper]

Iraq is hostile to both the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northen Ireland, and the United States. Iraq has the finance and the will to develop weapons in all the most feared categories (bio,chemical, nuclear). Therefore, it is in the best interests of both above countries to protect thier population from any future possible attack by destroying the current regime and any weapons (again, above) they may have.

If you want a fair fight, go join a boxing club. This the real world, with real politics and real consequences.

On the world stage there is no room for having a heart.

[an0n]

Originally posted by vyper
.....the will to develop weapons in all the most feared categories (bio,chemical, nuclear). Therefore, it is in the best interests of both above countries to protect thier population from any future possible attack by destroying the current regime and any weapons (again, above) they may have.

WTF!?! Hell, I can make chemical weapons in my bath-tub. It's not hard (just extremely dangerous). You want the US army to come and obliterate me............don't answer that.

[Zeronet]

Wanna know what the word from Iraq  is on weapon inspectors? They said no, "because the jobs already done and its supposedly obvivous that Iraq has no NBC weapons". His refusal to allow weapon inspectors will be the deciding factor on whether the US gets a UN mandate probably, cos soon, their stalling actions will fail and the UN will realise they have only one option. Saddamn says no currently, which is why i favour an armed resolution. The man simply wont listen to anything else, he is 100% insane. All we demanded since 1998, is for him to let Weapons inspectors back in! Its 4 years down the road and he still says no! how long do you propose we wait? All the money we allow him to get, gets spent on military hardware, while his people starve. We made it clear we'd kill him if he didnt let them in and he wont. We all know they are spies, its just Saddamn doesnt want them to find his weapons.