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Offline darkdaej

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Most despised canon mission
Wanted to know which mission you people hate the most when running through the FS1/FS2 main campaigns.

In my case, for FS1, it's "The Hammer and the Anvil"  Last mission without shields, forcing you to dogfight for 10 minutes without adequate support (2 wings of 3 fighters to cover 3 transports is just cruel management).  Oh sure if you're smart you can get Rho 1 to come back you up once the Andromeda jumps in, but it's not enough.  So you end up doing the mission pretty well, but you take some damage, obviously...and just before the mission ends, one of your wingmates or a shivan fighter rams into you and kills you so you have to redo the whole mission over again...URRGH! 

this whole mission is stupid, 3 transports with paper-thin armor carrying the most important cargo ever...defended by 6 fighters.  I'd have had the cargo on a damn Orion and had IT escorted by 6-7 cruisers and 4-5 entire fighter squadrons...

As for FS2:  Proving Grounds.  Basically trying to defend the Oberon is pointless, Delta wing will just stand in place and fire at it even if you empty everything you have on them.  It's actually easier to have the cruiser survive by just sitting there and waiting (even though you'll fail the bonus objective because it takes too much damage)  And then there's that damn Moloch the Aquitaine can't be bothered to fire at even if you stay close to it (which is nigh on impossible at Hard/Insane because of those damn bombers attacking the OTHER side of the ship and the thing flakking and beaming you to death in seconds).  That damned Order of Galatea medal is the one I have the hardest time getting in the whole game...and it shouldn't.

Being told in the recommendations to stay close to the Tiamat is a slap in the face I don't need.  This mission has crap design and  :v-old: just tells you to "git gud"

not to mention the Aquitaine should be able to scramble fighters to help you out but noooooooo...gameplay reasons
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 11:27:02 am by darkdaej »

 

Offline Colt

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Re: Most despised canon mission
While I haven't played enough FS1 to formulate an opinion there, FS2 has a couple that make me just sigh when I get to them.

-A Game of TAG:
This is the big one for me. The first part is fun; Ulysses is a joy to fly and we get a generous amount of TAG missiles. However when something like 15 Shivan fighters jump in later I get absolutely swarmed. That mission forever ingrained the missile alert sound into my brain as I try desperately to land a TAG hit (I'm not very liberal with my weapon usage; those TAGs HAVE to hit. Can't blame anyone but myself there  :rolleyes:).

-Argonautica:
Basically the second half of Proving Grounds repeated. Sure, this time the Aquitaine's disabled, but that's about it. Feels like the Shivans keep half their Molochs in reserve just for that destroyer.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Most despised canon mission
-A Game of TAG:
This is the big one for me. The first part is fun; Ulysses is a joy to fly and we get a generous amount of TAG missiles. However when something like 15 Shivan fighters jump in later I get absolutely swarmed. That mission forever ingrained the missile alert sound into my brain as I try desperately to land a TAG hit (I'm not very liberal with my weapon usage; those TAGs HAVE to hit. Can't blame anyone but myself there  :rolleyes:).

While I like A Game of TAG from a narrative point of view (it really illustrates who much the Nebula is enemy territory and there is no changing that) on the gameplay-side I will second this wholeheartely - I know it is to get people to use the TAG missiles and tutorial them, but there are a better ways to do that locking the load-out.



As far as FS1 is concerned: Evangelist

Slaying Ravana at least had a difficult target due to the FS2 armaments, but the attack on the Eva just is no challenge. On top of that, unlike Clash of the Titans the mission fails to utilize the Demon-class design in a meaningful way. I know it is the triumph that supposed to be snatched away by the Lucifer's attack on the Galatea, but the mission just doesn't plays like challenge that has been overcome but like a chore that has been completed.



Bonus Round - because its still canon:

Secrets Revealed (Silent Threat)

Does this need an explaination? - Silent Threat is full of rushed missions that aren't winning any awards, but Secrets Revealed takes the cake by toping off an unfocussed story by stuffing a lot into a single mission, with no regard for anything other than "getting it done". Not to mention, if you thought fighting in the Hades at the end ST:R is long, this version of the fight is longer and worse.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nysa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Novachen

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Re: Most despised canon mission
FreeSpace 2:
High Noon
Unfortunately a very boring and anti-climatic mission. Kill two beams without any pressure... okay, you have two shivan wings that protect it, but these are not a real challenge at all.

Their finest Hour
For obvious reasons because of all the fredding errors and missing events like the deactivation of the Colossus from the Ravana in the first place etc.

Clash of the Titans II
Well, you can not use such name for this mission... there is only one Titan... and no clash at all, because a Demon/Ravana is missing.


FreeSpace: Silent Threat
Secret Recovery
Well... you are ordered to steal a Faustus right beyond the nose of a Typhon... have to kill this destroyer all by yourself in a mere fighter. Congratulations. I think some bombers would have make much sense...

Field of Destruction
This mission does not make much sense, how it is played, because the Faustus and Sentry Guns are getting destroyed in no time by the Shivans... so you are escorting ships right into shivan controlled space to leave them there. You are playing Aken Bosch indeed :rolleyes:


FreeSpace: The Great War
La Routa della Fortuna
Well, the actual mission is fine. But the Command Briefing is a complete mess in terms of chronology, because it mistake Systems with each other that even made the fixing process during my translation any easier.

The Hammer and the Anvil
Well, mostly because of chronology reasons again... i mean, escort fighters are jumping through the jump node here, what is not even possible until late in the game. So the whole HoL infiltration process in this mission is totally pointless... because it has to be happen on the other side of the node, so out of reach for the player.

Evagelist
I agree.. actually this mission is FS1's High Noon, it has the same problems.
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Re: Most despised canon mission
I think High Noon was somewhat near the maximum of technical capabilities back then.

ST probably as a whole.

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Most despised canon mission
FreeSpace 2:
High Noon
Unfortunately a very boring and anti-climatic mission. Kill two beams without any pressure... okay, you have two shivan wings that protect it, but these are not a real challenge at all.

I think the original voice performances elevates it and so does it placement in the story. Granted when I first played the mission with german VA I had the very same reaction - mostly because the during the localisation process they forgot what purpose the popmous, and here strained tone of voice for the Colossus' talking head actually serves for the story (i.e. the Colossus being a boondoggle with no value against the Shivans).

Quote
Clash of the Titans II
Well, you can not use such name for this mission... there is only one Titan... and no clash at all, because a Demon/Ravana is missing.

Actually, I have the opposite reaction - yes, a direct adversary to the Bastion is absent from the mission, but there need to throw an "in-person" threat at this junction of the FS2 campaign anymore; actually having it would have detrimental to the story telling at this juncture as it would have distracted from the larger point of the Shivans being about to "smash the board". Even without it the mission is the same desperate push past the Shivans that original was meant to be.

And of course, you can always have collective of Shivan attackers be a singular "titan" ... yk like this
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 03:02:59 pm by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nysa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline darkdaej

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Re: Most despised canon mission

Bonus Round - because its still canon:

Secrets Revealed (Silent Threat)

The ST final mission?  Oh goodness yes it sucks.  "Oh, sure, here's a bomber escort mission.  Blow up a space station, no biggie... Oh, your wingmates are pretty much all gone and NOW there's the frickin Hades to destroy?  Yep, here's one wing of Ursas that get spaced within 60 seconds.  Deal with it in your Herc...

Urrgggh!!!

 
Re: Most despised canon mission
Well FS1 didn't knew what to do with "huge" flags so you could kill it with ML16. Sadly it didn't knew what x64 speed meant either.

 
Re: Most despised canon mission
FS1:
First Strike
Disabling the Cain is simple enough, but then you have to fight off 7 waves of scorpions and Basilisks while command dicks around with freighters. And you're in an Athena which is pretty bad at dogfighting.

Exodus:
Too tedious. It's just the exact same wings coming from the exact same spot over and over for 20 minutes and then you get to kill some cruisers in the end.

FS2:

The Roman's Blunder:
Fight off a ton of Lokis(which have better turn times than the Perseus along with slightly better shields and equal health) in a Myrmidon, a big, fat, and sluggish piece of ****.

Slaying Ravana:
Your escort wing just gets blown away almost immediately and then you have to deal with infinite waves of fighters in your crappy bomber while you occasionally launch some bombs at the Ravana. You can cheese it by flying into certain gaps in the geometry but then you're just sitting there launching bombs and spamming rearm until the Ravana is dead.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 
Re: Most despised canon mission
I disliked A Failure to communicate. The Shaitans firing not interceptable warheads a at some Faustus. :o

 
Re: Most despised canon mission
You can tank the damage with your fighter if you're feeling brave, the shield damage of the tsnunami#shivan or whatever is very low. Not that it'll change the outcome of the mission.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Most despised canon mission
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Re: Most despised canon mission
I've only played through FS1 a couple of times, so nothing stands out, and the original ST bugged half-way through so I never finished it.

As for FS2, let's see what stands out (note: most of my playthrough are on insane, so that colors my experience a bit) :
- The Romans Blunder : It's well known that FS2's early missions are among the most difficult when crancking up the difficulty, this one has the first obvious difficulty spike, as you are forced to battle a superior force of more agile crafts while your wingmen get whacked around by AAA beams from the Fenris & Leviathan.

- Slaying Ravana : Probably the biggest "Insane" difficulty spike, flying heavy bombers with not escort is possibly the most unfun, difficult and frustrating mission in the game in my opinion.

- A Game of TAG : Another mission that feels much worse on higher difficulties. I think it could have remained quite fun if they didn't slave ALL of the corvette's guns to TAGs. Overall, I think :v-old:'s implementation of TAG missiles is rather underwhelming.

- Proving Grounds/Argonautica : These two kinda ex-aequo in terms of badness. Argonautica is lengthier and a blatant filler mission, and features a friendly Aeolus, which is always good. Proving Grounds is more of a missed opportunity with the stealth fighters, as you never do anything worthwhile with them afterwards beyond scanning the Sathanas, and flying them would have made PG a bit more interesting.

 
Re: Most despised canon mission
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Playing Judas from FS1. Fly into the Lucifer's docking bay...  :rolleyes:
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Most despised canon mission
Quote
- Proving Grounds/Argonautica : These two kinda ex-aequo in terms of badness. Argonautica is lengthier and a blatant filler mission, and features a friendly Aeolus, which is always good. Proving Grounds is more of a missed opportunity with the stealth fighters, as you never do anything worthwhile with them afterwards beyond scanning the Sathanas, and flying them would have made PG a bit more interesting.

The stealth fighters non utilized falls under the same category as FS2's elastic timeframe and turning capshipt into sound-and-fury-machines artistically - it's to illustrate that all these things mean nothing as far as ending of the story is concerned. Bigger or smarter, guns & ships and ship & guns are not saving you from the shivans; failure to understand that leads disaster.

At least that it in FS2 campaign - fan campaign can re-state that however they like.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 05:11:28 am by 0rph3u5 »
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nysa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Re: Most despised canon mission
- A Game of TAG : Another mission that feels much worse on higher difficulties. I think it could have remained quite fun if they didn't slave ALL of the corvette's guns to TAGs. Overall, I think :v-old:'s implementation of TAG missiles is rather underwhelming.

Proper implementation of TAG weapons can be quite overwhelming though, and probably requires New features that aren't even present in FSO yet.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Most despised canon mission
- A Game of TAG : Another mission that feels much worse on higher difficulties. I think it could have remained quite fun if they didn't slave ALL of the corvette's guns to TAGs. Overall, I think :v-old:'s implementation of TAG missiles is rather underwhelming.

Proper implementation of TAG weapons can be quite overwhelming though, and probably requires New features that aren't even present in FSO yet.

Not at all, it's pretty trivial. FS Blue has TAG support available on a lot of missions and it doesn't require every turret on a ship to be slaved to the TAG.

 

Offline darkdaej

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Re: Most despised canon mission
- A Game of TAG : Another mission that feels much worse on higher difficulties. I think it could have remained quite fun if they didn't slave ALL of the corvette's guns to TAGs. Overall, I think :v-old:'s implementation of TAG missiles is rather underwhelming.

Proper implementation of TAG weapons can be quite overwhelming though, and probably requires New features that aren't even present in FSO yet.

Not at all, it's pretty trivial. FS Blue has TAG support available on a lot of missions and it doesn't require every turret on a ship to be slaved to the TAG.

I concur - I just finished FS Blue for the first time couple days ago and I did notice the TAG was far more efficient.

But the Warspite still refused to fire anything without TAG support.

EDIT: Great job with the fixes - I heard quite a bit of dialogue you never get to hear normally because of insta-kills that you managed to delay through your FREDDing magic :P



« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 09:52:09 am by darkdaej »

 

Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Most despised canon mission
Follow-up to this (I am not going to edit it in because the discussion moved along)

The stealth fighters non utilized falls under the same category as FS2's elastic timeframe and turning capshipt into sound-and-fury-machines artistically - it's to illustrate that all these things mean nothing as far as ending of the story is concerned. Bigger or smarter, guns & ships and ship & guns are not saving you from the shivans; failure to understand that leads disaster.

To understand this point, it might be important to look at FS2 as processing then contemporary (read 1998/99) views on then-current/recent UN peacekeeping mission and their efficacy (e.g. Somalia, Rwanda) as well as the NATO military actions in the Kosovo War.
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nysa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 
Re: Most despised canon mission
Follow-up to this (I am not going to edit it in because the discussion moved along)

The stealth fighters non utilized falls under the same category as FS2's elastic timeframe and turning capshipt into sound-and-fury-machines artistically - it's to illustrate that all these things mean nothing as far as ending of the story is concerned. Bigger or smarter, guns & ships and ship & guns are not saving you from the shivans; failure to understand that leads disaster.

To understand this point, it might be important to look at FS2 as processing then contemporary (read 1998/99) views on then-current/recent UN peacekeeping mission and their efficacy (e.g. Somalia, Rwanda) as well as the NATO military actions in the Kosovo War.

The breaking apart of Yugoslavia seems to be a pretty big influence on FS2.