Poll

Which game is better, Freespace 1 or Freespace 2?

Descent/Conflict: FreeSpace - The Great War
21 (38.2%)
FreeSpace 2
34 (61.8%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Voting closed: October 23, 2002, 11:48:25 am

Author Topic: FS1 or FS2  (Read 65609 times)

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Offline CP5670

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The campaign for SSC in Euro was mainly to unlock nodes, it was precarious, and we had to win everything, I checked, Fahd played two matchs, both vs MC, one 3v3, and one he played with BD 2v2...


I thought the process of unlocking nodes just involves giving away your nodes though? (a "locked" node is one where the controlling squad has more or less disappeared and nobody can get the node I think; could be wrong here since it has been years since I played squadwar :p) Or did they reset the maps again at some point?

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....I uhh....boldfaced it cuz uhh... it's boldy thing in the quote...I just clicked 'qoute post' wrote a lot of [quote ] [ /quote]'s and didn't notice the [b ] ;p


oh okay :D

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....Yeah....The Ramses mission annoys me to heck...
I'll look up the mission list (now I have the game names) in the strat guide when i get outta pxo (alt-tabby hehe)...
That strat guide is useless too, man it even gives out worse advice then newbie mistakes at points...lol... (FS1, ain't seen the FS2 one...for obvious reasons, didn't bother..)


hehe, I know what you mean about these guides out there. I don't have the FS1 one but got the FS2 one just for fun reading; I was pretty much expecting that it would not exactly have the best strategies... :p

Like I said earlier, these missions are not bad at all (very good in fact), but they don't do anything to advance the plot. In contrast, there are also FS1 missions that are no good gameplay-wise but are essential to the story. This is one thing that game reviewers praised a lot with FS2; the story and the gameplay were integrated and intertwined together in a way that no game had done before.

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I look at the human condition as philosophy...not really science, but the two mix...hehe...


for me that's kind of the same thing; hey, physics was called natural philosophy... :D

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about the cap beams, I can see that caps need defending, but, there's a famous quote from tribes that could apply here ..And yeah, it's always in caps...

In FS that'd translate to 'They're not defended by turrets, but by fighters', at least I think so, but I'm an old skool FS1 pilot, we HAD to defend them back then...heh, it was an actual job...


Yes, but it also became quite a hinderance, an implausible hinderance that made no sense. Remember the mission sm2-05.fsm (Tenderizer) with the Galatea for example? One would expect that when it jumps in, everyone would be relieved that this massive destroyer is on the scene to assist. Instead, your mission becomes five times harder, since you now have to defend it from swarms of HOL suicide bombers and it is not helping in any way (just providing a big target for the enemy). It cannot launch big swarms of fighters due to the game engine restrictions either.

Actually, this was another thing that all FS2 reviews marked as a very big plus point. The capital ships did not simply look imposing as they did in other games, but they lived up to the expectations set by their appearance; in other words, they could actually do something other than launch fighters and were no longer just big, expensive cannon fodder for fighters.

hey if you just want it really hard you could try making a mission where you defend a cargo container from huge onslaughts... :D

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I remember, all the complaints about host eri's and such, I was actually one of the people who complained, I tried to form an informal alliancy sort of thing for DSA to stop using Eri host if no one else uses it, they disagreed, cough.
Now, in the present, skill has gone far enough up that you can automatically adjust for pings --- providing they are stable, and they are not 300 plus (although it's about 250 plus for me..).


I am sort of used to the 1000+ ping games, actually. :D But even in the low ping games, you need to learn to never fire directly at the ship's lead indicator as in singleplayer but rather somewhat on the side of it. (this is quite a problem in low-ping <100ms games as well)

I was much more into FS2 in my 56k days but more or less sticked to co-op games only and also being a bomber only in those due to these lag/host-gun issues; I did not start playing TvT a lot until I got a better connection. The lag issues that were a small inconvience in co-op were absolutely fatal in TvT.

Either that, or they did something to the servers, because I clearly remember a distinct point where PXO had a particularly long server downtime (couple of days), but after which almost all the host-gun complaints stopped. I also noticed quite a difference myself; although it was nowhere near perfect or even satisfactory, it was ten times better than before.

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And...I do have a life, or some form of it, apart from playing FS, which would take up a good chunk of time, but you can ask around, I'm hardly there anymore, I'm in University, if I'm not in university, I'm around a friends, or down town with a group of friends, I just let my 'time management' flow, I don't really plan...whatever happens happens..like err...most of my approaches to life...and fs too...my fighting is like water, it just flows O.o


I have a life outside FS too, but it consists entirely of other games, math and legos. :D




As for the multi-threading campaigns, it sounds nice in theory but the reason why there are really no true dynamic campaigns out there is that making such a campaign would take an insanely long amount of time. Already the campaign construction process is extremely long, and this would just multiply into it a couple of times and make things completely unbearable. Also, as has been remarked, many people only play through the campaign a couple of times, so they might not see the alternate branches at all, and even if they did they would have to replay all the missions that are common to both branches. (if you make it so that there are almost no common missions, then you might as well make two seperate campaigns in the same time)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 01:59:39 am by 296 »

 

Offline BlackDove

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Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep

and you call the stealth mission a filler :rolleyes:


Sorry, you saw a point in it that I didn't? Please tell me, it'll definatly make one mission more fun to play out of the pool of rushly made ones.

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Originally posted by Shiva Archon
BD, could you define "stuff"?  It's a recurring theme in your posts...and I'm curious what you mean when you say "you don't know stuff" and "makes me think about stuff."


Why don't you learn about it yourself? I did...don't worry it'll come to you when you play the thing over and over and over like I have, I've been at this for 5 years...

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Originally posted by CP5670


I thought the process of unlocking nodes just involves giving away your nodes though? (a "locked" node is one where the controlling squad has more or less disappeared and nobody can get the node I think; could be wrong here since it has been years since I played squadwar :p) Or did they reset the maps again at some point?



Okay CP, now I'll draw it to you, just to get you fully back on topic.



Is that clear?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 02:38:17 am by 461 »

 

Offline CP5670

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Yes, yes, QD already explained all that. An impressive feat certainly, but as Shivan Archon said, completely irrelevant to this argument, and one that does not excuse you from providing supports to your points. :p

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Sorry, you saw a point in it that I didn't? Please tell me, it'll definatly make one mission more fun to play out of the pool of rushly made ones.


Look at it this way and compare it to your description:


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a) first testing of the Valkyrie interceptor pitting them against a standard issue fighter (not a god forsaken 30 year old bomber like it was in fs2)


a) first test of the Pegasus stealth fighter

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d) not to mention that the mission was one of the better ones, disabling the omega and the rasputin, good targets for a first time disabling practice.....not too big not too small...


b) good practice at disabling a somewhat large ship (Tiamat)

c) good practice at defending a friendly destroyer from bomber waves; this was the first mission in the game where you really had to worry about enemy bombers a lot more than before

Here is yet another instance of it; you have simply made up your mind to like FS1 and not to like FS2 no matter what.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 03:15:15 am by 296 »

 

Offline Stunaep

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Quote
Originally posted by BD


Sorry, you saw a point in it that I didn't? Please tell me, it'll definatly make one mission more fun to play out of the pool of rushly made ones.
 


bleh.. CP just explained that... forget I ever posted.
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Offline BlackDove

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Yes, yes, QD already explained all that. An impressive feat certainly, but as Shivan Archon said, completely irrelevant to this argument, and one that does not excuse you from providing supports to your points. :p



Look at it this way and compare it to your description:




a) first test of the Pegasus stealth fighter



b) good practice at disabling a somewhat large ship (Tiamat)

c) good practice at defending a friendly destroyer from bomber waves; this was the first mission in the game where you really had to worry about enemy bombers a lot more than before

Here is yet another instance of it; you have simply made up your mind to like FS1 and not to like FS2 no matter what.


Of course I made up my mind that FS1 is better. I don't see how that's your argument, it IS better than FS2 in my opinion, so...what's the point of your argument?

However one thing you missed. While the Alexander mission was a crucial part of the story, what with the avenger you use constantly afterwards (and some hidden stuff), the stealth test mission was just one random gimmick designed to make you occupied (and of course the protect mission was repeated again afterwards just before you join the lions, kind of to be another filler mission). As much to my recollection, I used the Valkyrie a lot in fs2, never touched the Pegasus after that test. Hell I didn't even fly IT in the test. It's like the thing never existed. When was stealth good? When you went to scan the juggernaught, wowee, where have I seen THAT before? At least in fs1 it was a challenge, the copy of it in fs2 was just blah...

And disable the tiamat? Why would I do that? the thing gets nuked without me disabling it, I just gotta keep it within my sensor range...that's as much to my recollection, I can go play it again if you want me to check. Sorry I  usually just sleep through that mission, what with all the piece of **** primaries value, I can sleep and spam my missiles and win...
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 06:08:18 am by 461 »

 

Offline Stunaep

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Quote
Originally posted by BD

And disable the tiamat? Why would I do that? the thing gets nuked without me disabling it, I just gotta keep it within my sensor range...that's as much to my recollection, I can go play it again if you want me to check. Sorry I  usually just sleep through that mission, what with all the piece of **** primaries value, I can sleep and spam my missiles and win...


AFAIK, the fact that the Tiamat has to be in your sensor range makes no difference whatsoever. I'd like some coders to confirm that, but I don't see anyway this could matter.
"Post-counts are like digital penises. That's why I don't like Shrike playing with mine." - an0n
Bah. You're an admin, you've had practice at this spanking business. - Odyssey

 
Yeah it gotta be in your sensors range to make sure Acquitain can shoot at it with the beams, nevermind eh?
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline BlackDove

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oh just a sidenote, on your sig, it's "pits" and you're missing a t from againt Peanuts, oh and I like the liebermans law quote you have :)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 06:39:10 am by 461 »

 

Offline Stunaep

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oh yes, another plus point for the Stealth mission:

First encounter with a Moloch class corvette.

plus, I just checked the mission events: There are no events that indicate that the Aquitaine will fire on the Moloch only, if the warship is visible on the players radar. Which concludes with what I've see (or heard to be more specific, namely the beams of the Aquitaine firing, even if I can't target the Tiamat). If there is such a requirement then it has to be in the code.

Saw some very well built events back in that mission. I can't understand though, why :v: preferred chaining events instead of using send-message-list though.
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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
sm1-02a.fsm: The Field of Battle
sm1-08a.fsm: The Hammer and the Anvil
sm2-01a.fsm: The Aftermath
sm2-02a.fsm: The Big Bang
sm2-03a.fsm: La Ruota della Fortuna
sm2-04a.fsm: Where Eagles Dare
sm2-06a.fsm: Shell Game


No argument on the field of battle, it does somewhat raise assault skills, but that's all.

The....Hammer and the Anvil...
....That mission is one of the more important ones you do...according to this guide thing, anyway, it's the one where you're escorting the shield prototypes on a route toward earth, if you don't call that important, god knows, what matters to you, but yeah, you see a point in stealth, somehow....

The Aftermath
This is debatable... I believe it's there to hammer home the Tombaugh station's loss, does pretty good job too IMHO... heh, fighters chattering, a delicate and huge convoy that needs to defend. I also think it's the first one you're almost fully incharge of stuff (....That winds me up to no end, AI dying because I can't order them....).

The Big Bang introduces red alerts, also you're defending the Tsunami project, which, dunno about you, but I use rather a lot later on, nuts to harbinger... (apart from for luci), admittedly, it's not desperately plot important, but it helps, most of the techs come out of no where, especially in FS2.

Fortuna a filler?
Read the command briefing before it, wont be so filler...
The fact that it's infested with shivan's makes you wonder, considering previously, and throughout the rest of the campaign they seem to very very losely work together.

Where Eagles Dare - Same as Fortuna, read the command briefing.

Shell game?
Well, I could put up no arguement, I mean, it's not exactly the most prophetic mission in the game, however there's something about the Eva just having engaged it's subspace drives as you get there that makes me wanna say it's there to increase player tension or something similar, considering it teases you in a 'can't touch this' style...


Strange about the mission, considering I keep thinking how bloody useless the Acquitain is while I'm flying it, the amount of times my RL Friends came and asked how you pass it...
In the end they realised you needed to be in sensor range for it to do the damage -- either that or the English version is different (dunno what version BD actually has...)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 06:57:36 am by 456 »
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline BlackDove

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Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
oh yes, another plus point for the Stealth mission:

First encounter with a Moloch class corvette.
 


Yep you're right, and another minus point is how lame it was done ;)

At least when they presented the Rakshasa they showed it taking Erikson to pieces, the thing was able to do something :p

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Originally posted by QuantumDelta


No argument on the field of battle, it does somewhat raise assault skills, but that's all.

The....Hammer and the Anvil...
....That mission is one of the more important ones you do...according to this guide thing, anyway, it's the one where you're escorting the shield prototypes on a route toward earth, if you don't call that important, god knows, what matters to you, but yeah, you see a point in stealth, somehow....



Not to mention the "hidden" message in it. Even if I'm looking into it too much, it's still funny :D
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 07:00:22 am by 461 »

 

Offline CP5670

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Ah, nothing like a good argument to start off the day! :D

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Of course I made up my mind that FS1 is better. I don't see how that's your argument, it IS better than FS2 in my opinion, so...what's the point of your argument?


That's exactly the problem, and it causes you to be irrationally biased. Look at your arguments in support of sm2-04a.fs1 and compare it with those against sm2-03.fs2. You are frequently holding exactly the same thing against an FS2 mission which you praised for an FS1 mission. I bet if the missions were exactly the same but only the games were switched around, you would suddenly start saying great things about that mission just because it in FS1. :p

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However one thing you missed. While the Alexander mission was a crucial part of the story, what with the avenger you use constantly afterwards (and some hidden stuff), the stealth test mission was just one random gimmick designed to make you occupied (and of course the protect mission was repeated again afterwards just before you join the lions, kind of to be another filler mission). As much to my recollection, I used the Valkyrie a lot in fs2, never touched the Pegasus after that test. Hell I didn't even fly IT in the test. It's like the thing never existed. When was stealth good? When you went to scan the juggernaught, wowee, where have I seen THAT before? At least in fs1 it was a challenge, the copy of it in fs2 was just blah...


Here we go again. I could just as easily say that the whole McCarthy thing was "just another gimmick designed to make you occupied." Now one thing about the Valkyrie; that was the first combat test of the Valkyrie, not the first controlled test. It had probably been tested many times already and had passed all its testing, so this is the first time it is being used; essentially, this amounts to getting another ship in your pool, so this is no big thing as far as the mission goes. (or if it is, you might as well say that every mission in which a new fighter is available is crucial to the story) The Pegasus on the other hand was being tested for the first time and had a whole new capability.

I will agree that sm3-05.fs2 was very similar to this one. However, you have no room to talk on similarity of missions, since there must have been four or so FS1 missions where you had to raid a cargo depot and another three freighter convoy defense missions (containing stuff you would use later on). FS2's missions were much, much more varied, and this is evidence by the game reviews.

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And disable the tiamat? Why would I do that? the thing gets nuked without me disabling it, I just gotta keep it within my sensor range...that's as much to my recollection, I can go play it again if you want me to check. Sorry I usually just sleep through that mission, what with all the piece of **** primaries value, I can sleep and spam my missiles and win...


No, not disable it completely, but get rid of the Shivan Cluster launchers on it so that the AIs don't die right away. It helps in that one. I would also like to have a disabling mission or two in FS2, which had too few of them, but FS1 had a bit too many.

Yes, you are right that the better primaries come after that (right next mission, in fact), but you get the tempests which, while technically a secondary, are used exactly like primaries.

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The....Hammer and the Anvil...
....That mission is one of the more important ones you do...according to this guide thing, anyway, it's the one where you're escorting the shield prototypes on a route toward earth, if you don't call that important, god knows, what matters to you, but yeah, you see a point in stealth, somehow....


Look, all they really are is cargo containers with labels. The shields themselves don't play any role in the mission at all; they could all be exchanged with Bosch Beer for example and the mission would be exactly the same. The one interesting thing about this mission is that incident with the PVFr Andromeda, but that alone is not enough to make an essential story mission.

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The Aftermath
This is debatable... I believe it's there to hammer home the Tombaugh station's loss, does pretty good job too IMHO... heh, fighters chattering, a delicate and huge convoy that needs to defend. I also think it's the first one you're almost fully incharge of stuff (....That winds me up to no end, AI dying because I can't order them....).


Come on, if you give it that much leeway just about every mission has some tiny little thing in the story. Is it interesting and fun? Sure. Essential to the story? Not really.

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The Big Bang introduces red alerts, also you're defending the Tsunami project, which, dunno about you, but I use rather a lot later on, nuts to harbinger... (apart from for luci), admittedly, it's not desperately plot important, but it helps, most of the techs come out of no where, especially in FS2.


Once again, this is just labeling a cargo container (or a science cruiser in this case) with some important thing and cannot alone be used to make the mission a story-advancement mission; in the mission itself, there is no tsunami used. Heck, this kind of thing could be used to "justify" the importance of sm2-01.fs2, where the cargo is the TAG missiles. (otherwise it is a pretty standard escort mission and one of FS2's fillers)

As for the FS2 comment, that's because they are being developed back at the main systems while you are at the front lines of battle, so they are ready to go by the time you recieve them.

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Fortuna a filler?
Read the command briefing before it, wont be so filler...
The fact that it's infested with shivan's makes you wonder, considering previously, and throughout the rest of the campaign they seem to very very losely work together.


A command briefing alone is no substitute for a mission story. Yes, it was surprising that the HOL outpost was gone and the player was not initially expecting a fight with the shivans, but that alone does not make it anywhere near an essential story mission. If you just keep the command briefing and change around the whole mission, the overall story will remain more or less the same.

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Where Eagles Dare - Same as Fortuna, read the command briefing.


See above.

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Well, I could put up no arguement, I mean, it's not exactly the most prophetic mission in the game, however there's something about the Eva just having engaged it's subspace drives as you get there that makes me wanna say it's there to increase player tension or something similar, considering it teases you in a 'can't touch this' style...


Sure, I felt the same thing, but once again, this is not nearly enough to have a true story-advancement part in the mission.

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Yep you're right, and another minus point is how lame it was done


Well, like its tech description says, it is not quite as powerful as any GTVA corvette and is probably used for different purposes, so there was no point in trying to show off its power.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 11:35:13 am by 296 »

 
What you say about our bias is directly returnable, you know.
You're being irrational too.

When I originally talked about the plot twists and anti-climatical atmosphere produced by them, I was refering to a University grad English teacher who does theater arts in his spare time (...and by that I mean I think he'd rather do TA then eat/sleep), that was his evaluation of it, and it's true, it's why most people find FS2 Tedious if they do, if they don't then they're suckered in by the good VA, and the good special affects making things all pretty, for delivery, FS2 sucks.
Sorry you don't seem to be able to accept that CP, but I've talked to the English Editor of PC Gamer and PC Games, The guy who replaced the original editor of Games doesn't know what he's talking about 90% of the time, he's like George Bush, I swear it gave me a headache...
And Gamer? he doesn't care about reviews, he likes getting money, so he just puts the most graphically active games in as a best and then hopes they sell off with storyline, most of the other, 'crappy' or 'mainly storyline based' reviews on there is done by the co-ed.
Then again they might have changed staff recently, I don't know, last time I checked they were pathetic.
and I used to follow games religiously.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline CP5670

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Quote
What you say about our bias is directly returnable, you know.
You're being irrational too.


Well, I already showed you several instances where you and BD were being so; now you show me where I am.

Quote
When I originally talked about the plot twists and anti-climatical atmosphere produced by them, I was refering to a University grad English teacher who does theater arts in his spare time (...and by that I mean I think he'd rather do TA then eat/sleep), that was his evaluation of it, and it's true, it's why most people find FS2 Tedious if they do, if they don't then they're suckered in by the good VA, and the good special affects making things all pretty, for delivery, FS2 sucks.


Oh really? Then why is that all of the reviews out there, without exception, say that FS2's story is far superior and more complex? Never mind the graphics, special effects and whatnot; the story is good enough to stand on its own. Or even in this topic alone, there are certainly more people who find the FS2 story better than the opposite, as shown by both the poll results and previous postings.

Also, you are not exactly talking to the best judge here; instead of a theater arts professor, talk to a history or political science professor. For example, all stories in theater arts must be centered around individual characters or they would be impossible to perform; this is obviously not true in history, and the best stories are almost always not based on characters at all. Then again, this is only one guy; you might find another person in the same subject with exactly the opposite opinion.

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Sorry you don't seem to be able to accept that CP, but I've talked to the English Editor of PC Gamer and PC Games, The guy who replaced the original editor of Games doesn't know what he's talking about 90% of the time, he's like George Bush, I swear it gave me a headache...

And Gamer? he doesn't care about reviews, he likes getting money, so he just puts the most graphically active games in as a best and then hopes they sell off with storyline, most of the other, 'crappy' or 'mainly storyline based' reviews on there is done by the co-ed. Then again they might have changed staff recently, I don't know, last time I checked they were pathetic.
and I used to follow games religiously.


I don't know about PC Gamer individually, but I have over 20 reviews from different websites and magazines to back me up on every one of my points here. You can contest one or two, but you cannot contest them all. :p

As for PC Gamer itself, its recent staff and general expository style does indeed suck, but they used to be very good a few years ago, perhaps the best hard-copy written game magazine out there. (e.g. in 1998, when FS2 was reviewed)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 12:22:49 pm by 296 »

 
Oh Dear God...I'm not even addressing that post due to it's horrific ignorance, arrogence, and utter stupidity...
OMFG...
I can't believe YOU Actually think that stuff, Crap... I don't actually have the words to say what I think/feel about that/you during the course of this, sure i haven't been the most polite person either but at least i'm not that bloody oblivious...
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline CP5670

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Basically you do not have anything further to say and so you are trying to mask your total defeat by throwing around insults. Looks like I more or less won this argument, and FS2 is superior. ;7 ah well, it should teach you that I am a bit hard to shake off once you start fighting with me. :D

I will just do the usual thing in this case and show that a good old insult can be in any situation and by any involved party; so versatile these little things are! Saying so,

I'm not even addressing that post due to its horrific ignorance, arrogance and utter stupidity. I cannot believe YOU actually think that stuff. I don't actually have the words to say what I think/feel about that/you during the course of this; sure I haven't been the most polite person either but at least I am not that bloody oblivious.

:D
« Last Edit: November 24, 2002, 01:09:49 pm by 296 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Oh Dear God...I'm not even addressing that post due to it's horrific ignorance, arrogence, and utter stupidity...
OMFG...
I can't believe YOU Actually think that stuff, Crap... I don't actually have the words to say what I think/feel about that/you during the course of this, sure i haven't been the most polite person either but at least i'm not that bloody oblivious...


Oh, come on now, this is no place for a tantrum. :lol:

Couldn't agree with you more, CP. :D

 
Considering most of you guys have been doing that for the last three pages, I ain't too bothered...

And no, I didn't 'lose' just realised you're a bit to ignorant... on this case anyway :p

The most dangerous people to argue against, are those who do not know everything about the subject, but do know enough about the subject to manipulate it with their own perspectives.

My main comment, is that FS2, would never be able to stand up in a cinema, whilst FS1 would.

However...
FS2 would make the better book.
Depends on your style of storyline, personally I do prefer books, but in game format, the Cinematic perspective is normally used in literature references, I went over this about 10 times two years ago... This is how the industry for TV/Cinema/LiveStageProductions, and the industry for books and literature works, at least currently. Sorry I can't do much to prove it to you apart from to put you on a year course with 3years peripheral study on the subject to realise it....:wtf:

And yeah, it pisses me off when people are arguing points which they only semi-understand (if they fully believe it's correct, anyway).
Which would be why I exploded :p
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

  

Offline Solatar

  • 211
Al lot of these people know more than you Quantum Delta, and you know a lot more than some of them. Throwing around insults usually means you've lost the argument, and you're too inmature to say so nicely.

 
Depends on your emotional security, hehe, it could just be I got tired of talking to a brick wall :p
And no, on this topic, I haven't seen anyone make a comment apart from TBL/SEXP's etc that they do know more about then I, because I lived the FS Saga for almost 5 and a half years, RL and Online, because about 10 of my friends here own the game, we've debated storyline, tactics, and politics (online) countless times, it's really not my fault I can't explain the point about the storyline without about 3 text books worth of quotes and a hollywood director + a famous novelist...lol, oh well, more fool you. :D
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."