Poll

do you think we should, you know...

I am an american and I think we should
25 (26%)
I am american and I don't think we should
14 (14.6%)
I am american and don't care what hapens
4 (4.2%)
I am not american and I think we (you) should
11 (11.5%)
I am not american and I don't think we (you) should
32 (33.3%)
I am not american and I don't care what you do
7 (7.3%)
I am american living elsewhere and will do it myself if they don't!
3 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 94

Voting closed: March 12, 2003, 05:52:55 pm

Author Topic: Iraq?  (Read 143623 times)

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Offline Warlock

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Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich

Well, if America needs help in removing a terror-supporting regieme, all they have to do is ask. We've been told to stay out of it, but unfortunately we do have plenty of experience in fighting as an organized army against gurreilla tactics.


Never know that request might just happen. I know US troops have had anti-gurreilla training for years as well as Urban warfare training, but it mostly depends on the political side of things as to your side coming in or not. (I'm honestly not 100% sure why they asked you guys to stay out of it)
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Offline Tiara

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I'll take your word for it Sandwich... :D

But don't tell me they drove the APC's into the homes/buildings? Thats the most likely place for militia's/armed civvies to hide. And then it gets messy.

Also, in a last resort, the Saddam regime might've outfitted the suicide bombers with explosives. And then you ahve bigger problems.

You can say all you want, but the US army isn't very well trained to fight battles in a city with 6 million inhabitants from wich a part is fully against them. Also with the Elite Iraqi guards there it will be messy.
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Offline Warlock

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Quote
Originally posted by Tiara


You can say all you want, but the US army isn't very well trained to fight battles in a city with 6 million inhabitants from wich a part is fully against them. Also with the Elite Iraqi guards there it will be messy.


and you're more qualified to make this statement than I am with mine ? You forget I took part in that type of training.  It's great to sit at a computer and make assumptions,...but let's not forget that's all they are.
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Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Tiara
But don't tell me they drove the APC's into the homes/buildings? Thats the most likely place for militia's/armed civvies to hide. And then it gets messy.


What do you mean by "drove APC's into buldings"? We would go on patrol throughout Jenin, "safely" hidden inside our armored vehicles. Usually there was an APC and 2 tanks on each patrol. The tanks, which could fire machine guns from inside, would shoot at suspicious objects along the road - bags, garbage cans, some cars - much of which would blow up - booby-trapped. We'd be drawing the attention of the roving terrorist groups to ourselves, who would then start throwing explosives at our vehicles from the 2nd story windows. We'd identify the source of the explosives and blow that room to bits with a tank shell (or a 0.6cal Vulcan burst) from 15 meters. :D

We tried our best not to bump buildings just for the heck of it - it's a darned stupid thing to do, as well as just plain cruel, but sometimes the tanks simply wouldn't have the room to take a turn cleanly.

Quote
Originally posted by Tiara
Also, in a last resort, the Saddam regime might've outfitted the suicide bombers with explosives. And then you ahve bigger problems.


"...outfitted the suicide bombers with explosives..." - Uhm....... isn't that obvious?? :wtf: ;)
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Offline Tiara

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Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
and you're more qualified to make this statement than I am with mine ? You forget I took part in that type of training.  It's great to sit at a computer and make assumptions,...but let's not forget that's all they are.


I had a 48 hour military course ;7  hehehehehehe :p

Anyway, I didn't say that the coalition wouldn't win. That is almost certain. I just said it wouldn't be easy in a 6 million inhabitants counting city with the entire Elite guard of Saddam.
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Offline Tiara

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Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


What do you mean by "drove APC's into buldings"? We would go on patrol throughout Jenin, "safely" hidden inside our armored vehicles. Usually there was an APC and 2 tanks on each patrol. The tanks, which could fire machine guns from inside, would shoot at suspicious objects along the road - bags, garbage cans, some cars - much of which would blow up - booby-trapped. We'd be drawing the attention of the roving terrorist groups to ourselves, who would then start throwing explosives at our vehicles from the 2nd story windows. We'd identify the source of the explosives and blow that room to bits with a tank shell (or a 0.6cal Vulcan burst) from 15 meters. :D

Lol, I meant if you truly want to destroy all of Saddams followers, eventually you will have to enter the houses etc. Thats where it gets nasty.

"...outfitted the suicide bombers with explosives..." - Uhm....... isn't that obvious?? :wtf: ;)

Eh... yeah... :nervous:  :p
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Offline Warlock

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Quote
Originally posted by Tiara


I had a 48 hour military course ;7  hehehehehehe :p

Anyway, I didn't say that the coalition wouldn't win. That is almost certain. I just said it wouldn't be easy in a 6 million inhabitants counting city with the entire Elite guard of Saddam.


Well I had a 5 year interactive 'course' :p

Anyways of course it won't be easy :rolleyes:  :wink: We knew this long before the first missile fired. But that wasn't what you said was
Quote

You can say all you want, but the US army isn't very well trained to fight battles in a city with 6 million inhabitants from wich a part is fully against them.


I was correcting the statement that our trrops aren't well trained for that situation.

Plus it's almost certainly not going to be even near 6 million fighting against the troops.  Most of your average persons will avoid fighting training and much better armed troops...and for a simple reason........ "Choose Life" :D

Simple fact is we've had troops in this situation before. I'm sure you've seen the movie "Black Hawk down" ,... that entire engaugment was part of  a similar situation. PLus the troops have been trained since then using that as an example to learn from.
Warlock



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We may rise and fall, but in the end
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Offline Fozzy

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I am english and i think we should go to war, but ammerica should not be aloud to stay, once the regeme is beeten. because thier is a lot of talk about ammerica empire building.
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Offline Warlock

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Quote
Originally posted by Fozzy
I am english and i think we should go to war, but ammerica should not be aloud to stay, once the regeme is beeten. because thier is a lot of talk about ammerica empire building.


No worries we're not planning to. The Coalitiion as a whole will help set up a self working Iraqi Government and then once Iraq is rebuilt it will be able to take care of itself.
Warlock



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We may rise and fall, but in the end
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Offline Corsair

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Bush and that speech at the Oscars
Who watched the Oscars and saw the acceptance speech that the documentary guy gave about Bush being a fictitious president who won a fictitious election and is now leading us into a fictitious war?
Anybody? Anybody?

I mean, antiwar protests are one thing, but what the hell was that?
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Offline Pez

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Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


Couple of points:

A) You expecteed any Muslim organization in a western/1st world country to praise 9/11??? :wtf: Of course they're gonna condemn the slaughter. Imagine an organization of Christians (or any non-Muslims) in the middle of a primarily Muslim country, praising America's attack on Iraq (no, I'm not comparing the 9/11 slaughter to the attack on Iraq, I'm giving examples of events that are either applauded or condemned by certain bodies). How long do you think they would remain alive?

Sme thing, IMHO, with the Muslim organizations in the western world - they're not gonna praise attacks that everyone surrounding them condemns - that's the quick way to suicide, without being able to take any of the infidel vermin with you. :-/}


Well I can understand that. And I understand that they say what are best for them but I think that many of these muslim organization truly and honestly condamned the attacks because they thought it was horrible and meaningless.

Quote

B) Please don't look at the Pope as the spokeperson or leader of Christianity world-wide. He's the head of the Roman-Catholic Church, but I know personally that most born-again Christians in the world don't consider him their "leader" at all. And if I may say so, the Pope needs to read his Bible again - and perhaps even pay attention to it this time. :doubt:

{/rant}[/B]


Mmmmkay....

 

Offline Tiara

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That, my friend, is a career ending move...
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Offline Stryke 9

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Uh-huh. Perhaps you're not aware, Warlock, but there could be nothing WORSE for US interests than giving the Iraqis a "free" government. The Shias would unquestionably ally with Iran (who'd actually be quite a lot mroe dangerous than Saddam ever could, especially with the Iraqi weaponry the Shias could provide), the Kurds would start a civil war over their desire to separate and hence prompt an invasion by Turkey, and there's enough of Iraq that's anti-US enough that not a lot would change. Never mind that Saddam's government had made itself rather integral to the well-being of most of the populace- sure, in ten years the country might be self-sufficient, but until then there's no way in hell we can feed all those people, it's a logistical nightmare even assuming we have the time, money, and resources to even try (which we might, but we certainly don't have the attention span. The Afghans were largely self-reliant, so it wasn't all that bad that we basically ditched them after the war. Iraqis would require more government attention than the people of the US do, and they wouldn't have a government properly capable of it yet). So, basically, the Iraqis would end up with a fractured state with a head that was marginally less repressive and more liberal than Saddam, but who would be weak and hence more dangerous in the long run, in that he couldn't make short work of any terrorist groups (Saddam has no tolerance for al Qaeda on his turf, because they're about as much a threat to him as to the US).

A US-led military dictatorship, or a puppet government (and a vicious one at that) would be the only options that even stand a chance of working. Liberty for the Iraqis would be severely counterproductive when their interests run so counter to our own, and honestly, there's no reason at all that the US would do it.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Unlikely. As I recall, he's made controversy his business.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Anyone see the polls?  Supposedly only 38% think the war is going well now, down from 70% on Friday - because we had a few casualties and a sandstorm. :rolleyes:

I'm beginning more and more to think that 24-hour news is dumb. :p

  

Offline Stryke 9

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See what I mean? Lose a dozen more and we're gonna be "losing" and the White House will have to make the army beat a hasty retreat. Americans are pansies.

Hell, they should bring back that old Soviet attitude towards warfare. Go out there and get shot, or your commanding officer shoots you himself!:D

 

Offline Ulundel

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Saw it...and heard all the 'Booos'

 

Offline Warlock

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MSNBC polls,...currently http://www.msnbc.com/news/889851.asp
(Granted you have to vote in order to see results)

Quote
. Do you approve or disapprove of the job that George W. Bush is doing as president?
  NBC
Approve  78% 67%  
Disapprove  20% 28%  
Not sure  2% 5%

2. Generally speaking, would you say the war in Iraq has gone better than what you expected, worse than you expected, or about what you expected?
  NBC
Better than expected  29% 25%  
Worse than expected  10% 10%  
About what was expected  58% 62%  
Not sure  3% 3%  
 
 

3. In general, would you say Iraq's military force has been tougher than you expected, not as tough as you expected, or just about what you expected?
  NBC
Tougher than expected  19% 10%  
Not as tough as expected  17% 31%  
About as expected  62% 54%  
Not sure  3% 5%  
  4. Based on events so far, do you feel generally confident about the value of the use of U.S. military force in Iraq or do you have some doubts about the value of the use of U.S. military force in Iraq?
  NBC
Feel confident about the value of the use of U.S. military force  79% 71%  
Have some doubts about the value of the use of U.S. military force  20% 25%  
Not sure  2% 4%  
 
 

5. How much longer do you expect the war with Iraq will last?
  NBC
Less than a week  1% 3%  
A week to two weeks  8% 13%  
Two weeks to a month  25% 24%  
One to two months  28% 18%  
Three to six months  18% 13%  
More than six months  11% 13%  
Not sure  9% 16%  
  6. The U.S. and its allies should or should not continue the war as long as it takes to find and dismantle any biological, chemical, or nuclear weapon capabilities in Iraq
  NBC
Should continue  85% 92%  
Should not continue  12% 7%  
Not sure  3% 1%  
 
 

7. The U.S. and its allies should or should not continue the war as long as it takes to remove Saddam Hussein from power.
  NBC
Should continue  86% 90%  
Should not continue  12% 9%  
Not sure  2% 1%  
  8. The United States and its allies should or should not continue the war as long as it takes to destroy Iraq's offensive military capabilities.
  NBC
Should continue  79% 81%  
Should not continue  16% 16%  
Not sure  5% 3%  
 
 

9. The United States and its allies should or should not continue the war as long as it takes to capture or kill Saddam Hussein.
  NBC
Should continue  81% 80%  
Should not continue  15% 17%  
Not sure  5% 3%  
  10. Based on what you have heard, read or seen, please tell me how great a risk you feel American forces in Iraq face in carrying out their objectives using a seven-point scale where "7" means a grave risk and "1" means very little risk?
  NBC
7, grave risk  18% 23%  
6  16% 12%  
5  29% 29%  
4  18% 16%  
3  11% 11%  
2  4% 4%  
1, little risk  1% 2%  
Cannot rate  3% 3%  
 
 

11. How likely do you think it is that U.S. forces will discover weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, such as biological, chemical, or nuclear weapons capability -- very likely, fairly likely, just somewhat likely, or not that likely?
  NBC
Very likely  67% 62%  
Fairly likely  16% 16%  
Just somewhat likely  7% 12%  
Not that likely  9% 7%  
Not sure  1% 3%  
 



So I'd say the polls depend greatly on where you find them.

*EDIT* Left out their disclaimer LOL
Quote
The poll was taken March 23 and had a 4.4 percent margin of error.
Warlock



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Offline Warlock

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Re: Bush and that speech at the Oscars
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair

I mean, antiwar protests are one thing, but what the hell was that?


A moron.
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Offline Ryx

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Re: Bush and that speech at the Oscars
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair
Who watched the Oscars and saw the acceptance speech that the documentary guy....


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