Poll

do you think we should, you know...

I am an american and I think we should
25 (26%)
I am american and I don't think we should
14 (14.6%)
I am american and don't care what hapens
4 (4.2%)
I am not american and I think we (you) should
11 (11.5%)
I am not american and I don't think we (you) should
32 (33.3%)
I am not american and I don't care what you do
7 (7.3%)
I am american living elsewhere and will do it myself if they don't!
3 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 94

Voting closed: March 12, 2003, 05:52:55 pm

Author Topic: Iraq?  (Read 141705 times)

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Offline Pez

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Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Man, I read about his 'documentary' Bowling For Columbine.... how anyone can consider it anything other than a complete and utter fabrication amazes me.  He spliced and cut together various conversations to get the effect he wanted and basically stuck words in people's mouths.  Some documentary, eh?


Could you please explain this? I don't really get it, how does he "stuck words in people's mouths"?

 

Offline CP5670

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Quote
Quite agree, Razor. Why should one tyrannical despot with weapons of mass destruction be able to keep his while he confiscates those of another tyrannical despot?


That is one of the benefits of being the more powerful party.

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This guy is actually very smart. I think that should really happen. Get yourselves rid of Bush and all will be well and by the way, destroy your weapons of mass destruction as well.


All will be well for the rest of the world, not for the US. But we want it the other way, so Bush and WMDs stay. :D

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And Warlock, it doesn't matter wether America has nuked anyone recently, the mere possesion of the weapons suggests that given enough provokation, they would. And this should not be allowed.

No-one should posses enough weaponry to annihilate the human race as the only thing such weaponry could ever be used for is precisely that.


Great, so what are you going to do about it? :D I thought you were above this "should" and "should not" business; the only things that "should" happen are the things that are happening.

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excuse me, but is there EVIDENCE that he has the weapons? the inspectors found nothing, despite being there for about 2 months (almost 3 i think), having the latest technology and being experts in the field. Just because Saddam refused to cooperate does mean anything. The recently discovered chemical plant is harmless, even the US has confirmed that. If they can start a war without proof, it makes you wonder what else they can do. If suspecting something is enough, then they have a blank cheque for war..


Are "inspectors" capable of doing anything other than wasting time? No, which is why they had so much support from the EU. Read my earlier posts on that to find out why this is so.

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The US has NO right to tell another sovereign country what weapons it can and cannot have.


Once again, that's nice, so what are you going to do about it? The US, or any other nation for that matter, has a right to do anything it pleases if it has the capability. This is especially beginning to show now; the rest of the world is whining, but nobody is going to be heading for Iraq to fight for Hussein. :D

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And of course weapons of mass destruction aren't the size of a match so they can just be thrown away and you can't just dig them into a dessert and wait untill the agressors are gone.


Yes you can. I already explained this matter to you in detail in a previous thread on this topic; do you have a short memory or something? :p

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So was Saddam. granted, there were only half the number of candidates to vote for in iraq, but on the other hand 100% of the population voted.


Now this is just funny. That is because anyone foolish enough to vote against him is dead, and only living people's votes count. :D

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-Bush has proclaimed to the world that his opinion is supreme. In naming the "axis of evil", he has basically said "I decide who has what..Korea cant have nukes because I'm the boss, and I decide who is right"


Exactly, because he has the power to do that. If you don't like it, do something about it. That is the way things work in the world.

Quote
At any rate, it was the UN which was granted the prerogative to attack or not, and they've decided not to. The US going ahead and doing it in the face of international law is comparable to a cop letting a guy go because there's not any conclusive evidence he's done anything, then a vigilante capturing and lynching the guy because he's pretty sure they guy did whatever it was anyway.


The thing is that in this case, the vigilante is far, far more powerful than the cop, and so has all the real authority (the cop would have authority if he could enforce his demands, but he cannot). Anyway, suppose that they did have UN approval. How would that make any difference at all? Hussein would still not approve of it, and he would actually be taken more seriously because he at least has some credible force to back his opinion. :D
« Last Edit: March 27, 2003, 04:02:06 am by 296 »

 

Offline Shrike

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Quote
Originally posted by Pez
Could you please explain this? I don't really get it, how does he "stuck words in people's mouths"?
By splicing together entirely different conversations in order to have the person who's 'speaking' say something entirely different from what they actually said.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Goober5000

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No-one should posses enough weaponry to annihilate the human race as the only thing such weaponry could ever be used for is precisely that.


Ideally, this should be the case.  But this is not an ideal world.  Suppose the U.S., in a show of good faith, destroyed all its nuclear weapons.  Would other countries follow?  Maybe some, but many (such as North Korea) would not.  They'd laugh at the U.S.'s gullibility and naivite, and rightly so. :rolleyes:

The reason we keep nuclear weapons is not to use them per se, but to reserve the option to use them if we needed to.  They're deterrents.  If the U.S. didn't have nukes, North Korea wouldn't hesitate to invade South Korea, China wouldn't hesitate to invade Taiwan, and who knows what other chaos might ensue.

 

Offline Turnsky

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hence the term: 'Nuclear deterrents'
   //Warning\\
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in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
he will become docile after that,
and less likely to stab you in the eye with a mechanical pencil
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Offline CP5670

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Exactly, the nukes don't have to be actually used as physical weapons; they become a formidable weapon in international politics by simply existing.

 

Offline kode

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CP####, get some self respect. Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. You seem like a smart guy. Why don't you question your government, at least once in a whíle?
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
- Ambrose Bierce
<Redfang> You're almost like Stryke 9 or an0n
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
- Aldous Huxley
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

 

Offline J.F.K.

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Have you guys ever studied JFK's dealings in the Cuban Missile Crisis? (Yeah, I studied him quite a bit, and my name's Jack, so I took a liking to the guy.) Nuclear brinkmanship is a fascinating topic, and the world is still quite inexperienced in it. Khrushchev and Kennedy's negotiations got precariously close to WW3, but Khrushchev was desperate to retain peace. It cost him his job later... nukes aren't an easy think to play with.
.
[font="SerpentineDBol"]. . . . W H O . I S . T H E . M A N , . W H O . I S . T H E . M Y T H ?[/font]

 

Offline Tiara

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Originally posted by Warlock

I mean damn ... if you've got hmmm say 5 Kilos of Weed in the truck,...and a guy in a suit askes to inspect your car,.. but says you've got every right to say "NO" ... would you let him ?  


Hmmm... I'd let him. Here in Holland he'd probably say: "5 kilo's, eh? Next time no more then 6 grams or you will be taken into custody. Now run along..."

:wink:
I AM GOD! AND I SHALL SMITE THEE!



...because I can :drevil:

 

Offline CP5670

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Quote
CP####, get some self respect. Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. You seem like a smart guy. Why don't you question your government, at least once in a whíle?


What kind of a pathetic argument is this supposed to be? In this case the government is doing what is good for the nation, which makes it "right" as far as that goes. (and what Iraq is doing is "right" too, for its purposes)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2003, 03:56:07 am by 296 »

 

Offline kode

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670


What kind of a pathetic argument is this supposed to be? In this case the government is doing what is good for the nation, which makes it "right" as far as that goes. (and what Iraq is doing is "right" too, for its purposes)


wars aren't good for the little people. only for business and for the government. but I guess you aren't one of the little people.

I'm gonna go out on a killing spree later today. I'll kill some hobos. It's good for the nation.
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
- Ambrose Bierce
<Redfang> You're almost like Stryke 9 or an0n
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
- Aldous Huxley
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

 

Offline Warlock

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:rolleyes:

Some ppl will simply never get a point.
Warlock



DeathAngel Squadron, Forever remembered.


Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon

To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.

We may rise and fall, but in the end
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Offline kode

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Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
:rolleyes:

Some ppl will simply never get a point.


I don't want to get a point. I'm ignorant and hypocritical.

Sorry I have a problem with innocent people getting killed for money.
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
- Ambrose Bierce
<Redfang> You're almost like Stryke 9 or an0n
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
- Aldous Huxley
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

 

Offline Warlock

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Originally posted by kode

Sorry I have a problem with innocent people getting killed for money.


Point well missed.

You don't realize that this war AND the REBUILDING of Iraq is going to cost US billions ? Yea we're in this for money alright. :rolleyes:
Warlock



DeathAngel Squadron, Forever remembered.


Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon

To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.

We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together

 

Offline kode

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Quote
Originally posted by Warlock


Point well missed.

You don't realize that this war AND the REBUILDING of Iraq is going to cost US billions ? Yea we're in this for money alright. :rolleyes:


considdering how much you are going to make later on it, it is pocket change.
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
- Ambrose Bierce
<Redfang> You're almost like Stryke 9 or an0n
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
- Aldous Huxley
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

  

Offline Warlock

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From ? We've only stated a few 100 times that the Oil Wells will be under Iraq control and we're only preventing them from being torched to help fund the rebuilding of Iraq.

So what have you been hearing ?
Warlock



DeathAngel Squadron, Forever remembered.


Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon

To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.

We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together

 

Offline Gloriano

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why the WAR in iraq is so important to US Goverment?
ok US President sayd they go Free Iraq Civilians and disarm Iraq weapons  but after war US goverment want control Iraq
and Iraq oil
« Last Edit: March 27, 2003, 06:50:05 am by 153 »
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Offline Warlock

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:rolleyes:
Warlock



DeathAngel Squadron, Forever remembered.


Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon

To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.

We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together

 

Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
From ? We've only stated a few 100 times that the Oil Wells will be under Iraq control and we're only preventing them from being torched to help fund the rebuilding of Iraq.

So what have you been hearing ?


I think the presence of an oil-funded (both in terms of personal wealth and campaign contributors) President does throw suspicions in that direction... I would like to know why the **** only US companies were allowed to bid for the rebuilding contract?

Besides which, Iraq offers the US a foothold in the regions as such...  it allows them to put more pressure on other Arab nations if they aren't as reliant on, say, Saudi Arabia for oil.  

I think there is a strong case for the removal of Saddam and the war in general, and I'll support the troops as long as they're fighting.  But i don't believe that the true reasons behind this war are anything other than revenge / Bush finishing off 'daddy's job', and for monetary/ powr reasons.

After all, why hasn't there been a similar amount of effort to deal with the likes Iran, N.Korea (WMD), or Zimbabwe (Dictatorship).  And didn't the US make offers to (I think) Gambia - a military dictatorship - when it was still trying to secure a 2nd resolution?

There are a LOT of question to be answered about the motivations of this war, and the so-called 'Bush Doctrine' in general - which seems to be an excuse for aggressive colonialism / 'guinboat diplomacy' which has alientated the US and (sad to say) UK from the rest of the world.

 

Offline Warlock

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Originally posted by aldo_14


I would like to know why the **** only US companies were allowed to bid for the rebuilding contract?


From what I've heard the US are not the only ones bidding....even France is getting things lined up to profit from the effects of the war.
Warlock



DeathAngel Squadron, Forever remembered.


Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon

To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.

We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together