[an0n]

Congratulations, Sandwich, you're an idiot.

The Jews were merely the largest and most numerous of the groups the Nazi's wanted wiped out. They killed pretty much every non-white, tramp, homo, furry and mental retard too. But you never hear about that because there are no international media consortiums run by homosexual tramps.

It's like if I decided to wipe out the world starting with France, and you saying my sole aim was to kill all French people.

[Ghostavo]

Funnily when I expressed that opinion that the Nazi goverment was using the Jews for rallying it's people... er... well... see my 3rd post in this thread's page.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,23023.0.html

[Bobboau]

"They killed pretty much every non-white, tramp, homo, furry and mental retard too."
I hear about it all the time, still think they had a hardon for killing jews

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by an0n
Congratulations, Sandwich, you're an idiot.

The Jews were merely the largest and most numerous of the groups the Nazi's wanted wiped out. They killed pretty much every non-white, tramp, homo, furry and mental retard too. But you never hear about that because there are no international media consortiums run by homosexual tramps.

It's like if I decided to wipe out the world starting with France, and you saying my sole aim was to kill all French people.

Congratulations, an0n, you're an idiot.

[q]They considered themselves superior to all other races. Their attempted extermination of the Jews was specifically targetted at the Jews, but had they completed that, they would have moved on to some other non-Aryan race. They just happened to go for the Jews first.[/q]

What part of that contradicts what you said?

[an0n]

Fine, I'll play along:

According to the 'official figure', how many Jews were gassed at Auschwitz?

[an0n]

Originally posted by Sandwich
What part of that contradicts what you said?

None of it. I was generalizing.

[pyro-manic]

Originally posted by Sandwich


It depends on the circumstance. You of all people should realize that. I'm not a murder, primarily because I've never shot anyone. But if I was in a war, and shot and killed an attacking enemy soldier, would I be a murderer in your eyes?

Yes - you'd have taken the life of another person. Killer, murderer, executioner, whatever. That person would still be dead. You'd be justified, certainly (he'd presumably be trying to kill you), but you'd still have killed him.

Originally posted by An0nCongratulations, Sandwich, you're an idiot.

The Jews were merely the largest and most numerous of the groups the Nazi's wanted wiped out. They killed pretty much every non-white, tramp, homo, furry and mental retard too. But you never hear about that because there are no international media consortiums run by homosexual tramps.

It's like if I decided to wipe out the world starting with France, and you saying my sole aim was to kill all French people.

I pretty much agree with you there, at least insofar as the Jews were the easiest group to focus national hatred on. Once they had been wiped out, it would have been shifted to Arabs (or whatever ethnic minority dominated the region they invaded next). But there was a definite racist element, though as I said, that was a pretty standard attitude at the time.

Originally posted by Sandwich Yes, I do think that Muslims (unwittingly, most likely) worship Satan. That's my opinion, which I hold because of Islam, not because of their opposing Israel.

Uh, what?

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Sandwich
It depends on the circumstance. You of all people should realize that. I'm not a murder, primarily because I've never shot anyone. But if I was in a war, and shot and killed an attacking enemy soldier, would I be a murderer in your eyes?

To make a counterpoint if a suicide bomber died killing Ariel Sharon would that make him a murderer in your eyes?

[JarC]

an0n, you are dead wrong. You don't even live here, nor did you when it happened, so shut the **** up coz you don't know what you are talking about. They singled out jews, even labeled and stamped them for easy pickings. the rest was merely practice material to them. Besides, wiping out every non-arier was the farthest from his mind, do you realy think he wanted his race of 'ubermensch' to do the dirty work? now did you? And the rest of you think Hitler was bad? Stalin still has the 'record' if I am not mistaken (roughly 26 million was it?).

And in the name of what happened then, look how these 'religious' folk are behaving nowadays...anyone within his right mind and living in Israel should be ashamed of what it's country stands for in current days, especially today. (and if it weren't such a terrible thing to wish for, I'd almost wished he'd succeeded) Luckily I am not such a person, but I do find it extremely difficult to remain objective....

[an0n]

Three things:

Originally posted by an0n
Fine, I'll play along:

According to the 'official figure', how many Jews were gassed at Auschwitz?

And:

The Soviet Holocaust of Christian Russian Kulak farmers. (1924 - 1930) - 15 million exterminated!  

The Holocaust of the Ukranian farmers, (1930- 1933) - 7 million starved to death.  

The Holocaust of Russian political prisoners, (1919 - 1949) - 12 million perished.  

The Pol Pot Communist Holocaust in Cambodia (1975) - 2.5 million slaughtered.  

Armenian Holocaust by the Turks, (1915) - 1.5 million people killed.

3. They also 'singled out' blacks, homos and retards. But to appeal to the people they have to see the 'threat'. Jews were everywhere, so people could walk through the streets and see a Jewish banks and a Jewish butchers and a Jewish sweet shop and know that the evil, nasty, horrible Jews were taking all their precious money.

And it's easier to say "Kill all the Jews" than to say "Kill all the Jews, africans, arabs, homosexuals, lesbians, tramps, mentally unstable, crippled, poor, stupid, chinese, japanese, syrian....."

[Bobboau]

Originally posted by karajorma


To make a counterpoint if a suicide bomber died killing Ariel Sharon would that make him a murderer in your eyes?

he wouldn't to me, but they have yet to atempt such a thing.

killing someone != murder
if someone is going to kill you but you kill them first, it isn't murder, it's self defence.

[Flipside]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... I think the problem is defining 'going to kill you' really After all, if someone were in my house holding a gun to my family I'd be pretty much wanting to kill them, so, say I grab a knife, a pretty paltry weapon against a gun, and for that, the person shoots me dead. Now, he has invaded my privacy and threatened my loved ones. So where now lies the self-defence? Me for defending my own, or the solider for shooting someone who was trying to kill him?

Basically, someone has to break the circle, and that's a very very very difficult thing to do

Anyway, just my thoughts

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Bobboau
he wouldn't to me, but they have yet to atempt such a thing.

You really do have to wonder why don't you. It's not like years of bombing cafes and buses have got them any closer to their goal.

 I suppose considering that the last peace process was stopped by the assassination of an Israeli leader maybe they're scared that the next one might bring it back

[an0n]

If you kill someone, you are a murderer.

The second you start making concessions for circumstance you cheapen the definition and make it utterly pointless.

[an0n]

Oh, on a related note: If attacking military targets and personel while at war is neither murder nor an act of terrorism, then an Iraqi or Afghan killing George W ****, the commander of all of the US's armed forces, would be a valid option.

[Rictor]

OK, everyone just calm down. I forsee lockage if this continues to escalate. Anon, try to be civil, k?

Alright, now on to some stuff being discussed:

Someone reffered to the Hitler documentary, and said that its easy to see why he hates the Jews. I'm assuming you are reffering partly to the incident with Hitler's mother and the Jewish doctor. Just to clear things up, its a factual error that this stoked Hitler's hatred of Jews. In fact, he was very thankful to the doctor, and even went to so far as to go and buy him a big bunch of flowers, at a time when he was destitute.

Secondly, anon is not wrong in claiming there were links between Zionist groups and the Nazis. this might be a good read. Forth invesigating at the very least.

Thirdly: Splinter, your position can only be considered valid if you assume that all Palestinians are terrorists and that all Palestinians want to drive the Jews in to the sea, which is utter bull****. The various militant groups were created IN RESPONSE to the Israeli occupation and subsequent oppression. They weren't around in 1948, and didn't just one day materialize out of thin air. And some, like Hamas, were created BY Israel. I mean literally created, started, funded, the whole deal. Without these two assumptions, all your arguements are baseless and false.

As for singleing out the Jews, its probably true to an extent. Hitler had a, as Bobbaou put it so eluquently, hard-on for the Jews. But its was all part of a very diverse hatred, including gays, Communists (hey, where have I seen that I wonder), Gypsies, blacks, cripples as well as Jews. But, its can't even be disputed, the Jews got the brunt of it. Statistically, the greatest persecution and the greatest death was visitied on Jewish people.

I'll post some more later, and on topic this time.

[Sandwich]

Oh please. Killing != murder. Quit being idiotic.

Originally posted by Rictor
They weren't around in 1948, and didn't just one day materialize out of thin air.

Neither were "The Palestinians" as the world knows them today.

[Rictor]

Killing someone makes you a murderer. Strictly speaking, this is true. But you can be a murderer and still be guiltless. If someone is directly trying to kill you, and he has no right to do so, then its murder in self defence. But technically, its is still murder.

I should also mention that rarely, rarely can someone claim to be totally guiltless in a murder. Because very rarely are all the conditions met to consider something and act of pure self defense.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Sandwich
Oh please. Killing != murder. Quit being idiotic.



Neither were "The Palestinians" as the world knows them today.

not in name, but the people were still living on that land. Call them Martians, I don't care. That land was theirs, they had lived on its for centuries.

[an0n]

Two more things:

Gypsies and Communists. I knew I'd forgotten someone important.

And: The Jewish death-toll figures were greatly exaggerated.

• The 'official' Auschwitz death figure is widely reported as around 1.1million JEWS.
• The ACTUAL death figure, including all deaths from natural causes such as typhoid and pneumonia, across all denominations, is 74,000. Captured Nazi records confirm this.

Oh and most 'Death Camps' were in Poland, which further supports my claims that Jews were the most persecuted simply because of numerical superiority over the other 'anti-socials'.