Author Topic: Ship size and role in the FS universe.  (Read 42303 times)

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Offline StratComm

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
I don't think FS tech is to the nanobots level, as there are far too many uses for them where they are most certainly not being applied.  They'd make an unbelievable weapon, for instance.  Or capship repair.  Or in building the Colossus.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Maybe that's what the Auriga had in Derelict, with its self-repairing hull...
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Offline Setekh

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Hey ngtm1r, I haven't seen you before. Welcome to HLP. :)

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Offline aldo_14

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
I don't think FS tech is to the nanobots level, as there are far too many uses for them where they are most certainly not being applied.  They'd make an unbelievable weapon, for instance.  Or capship repair.  Or in building the Colossus.


They could use directed electro-graviton energy platelet therapy* for in-situ repairs.

*No, I don't know what the **** that's meant to mean either :D

 

Offline Flaser

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
I think people falsely believe that the GTA/GTVA has artificial gravity either. Reason? It could be used for tons of other things if they had it including prolusion, weapons (a rocket that actually tears/smashes its opponent to tiny bits and pieces), storage, reactors - you name it people.

Of course you'll go off: they had been sitting/walking in the mainhalls // FS is just another space-opera disregarding physics.

I don't want to really bother with the later part - it could be, but it's fun to make a plausible explanation.

For the first part: that's why I though up warpspace.
What the knut is that? An offspring technology of subspace engines.

Big ships needed subspace resonance conducts to make a seemless transition. (It is canon that a ship travels in the n-th dimensions through subspace.)
The sheer size of the ship makes using a single subspace engine incapable of covering it with a single field, while using multiple engines would be a waste - so they distort a single field with the conducts to cover the whole ship, but without the energy demands of covering an entire ship without the distortion.

Warpspace was discovered by incident - the subspace conducts were misaligned, creating a very weak subspace current between them. People suddenly saw object gravitating toward the conducts that had a weaker output. The conducts also serve as the ship's energy grid so they are always somewhat electrified/under power.

What's the difference between gravity and warpspace: warpspace is a current with a constant velocity, while gravity produces acceleration.

Object in warpspace will start to accelerate with a decreasing degree since they catch up with the current. In practice this means that once an object reached the velocity of the current it won't accelerate any more.

When inside a warpfield a person won't realise the difference between gravity and the warpfield, since both produce a similar initial acceleration.

Warpfields are beneficially safe since it's impossible to fall to your death unless the field was calibrated to a too high maximum velocity (most fields have 2-4 m/s setting).

Since their invention they have become the standard method to simulate gravity aboard starships and stations.

Space colonies and some cargo haulers though still use centrifugal simulation since it's more economic or can't mount a big enough subspace conduct array to create a sufficiently fluid warpfield.  (It is among nasty pranks to miscalibrate one resulting in a stomechwrenching experience).
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Offline karajorma

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Sorry. Don't believe you. Everything we see in FS2 points to them having anti-grav or some tech like it. The cutscenes, the ship design, everything.

Saying that there is no AG because there are no AG weapons is about as sensible as saying that cause Capella is a quaternary star system the Shivans must have hidden the other 3 stars somehow. The stars are missing cause [V] are crap at astronomy. The AG weapons are missiing because [V] didn't see any sci-fi which included AG based weapons (No big surprise. There aren't that many on TV)

 As a result we need to fanwank explainations for their lack. Quite frankly I find the simpler explainations much better. e.g The GTVA have never figured out how to get it above 1-2 gravities (i.e nothing at all useful as a weapon). I don't see the need to invent some hideously complex Warpspace explaination when you can explain it in a single line.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2004, 10:31:26 am by 340 »
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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
RE: Nanobots

     Hmmn, I could've sworn I read that somewhere in the game saying that the ship used nanobots. Maybe not . . .

 

Offline aldo_14

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Quote
Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
RE: Nanobots

     Hmmn, I could've sworn I read that somewhere in the game saying that the ship used nanobots. Maybe not . . .


I've never seen anything like that myself.  Are you sure it wasn't a mod?

 

Offline Flaser

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
Sorry. Don't believe you. Everything we see in FS2 points to them having anti-grav or some tech like it. The cutscenes, the ship design, everything.

Saying that there is no AG because there are no AG weapons is about as sensible as saying that cause Capella is a quaternary star system the Shivans must have hidden the other 3 stars somehow. The stars are missing cause [V] are crap at astronomy. The AG weapons are missiing because [V] didn't see any sci-fi which included AG based weapons (No big surprise. There aren't that many on TV)

 As a result we need to fanwank explainations for their lack. Quite frankly I find the simpler explainations much better. e.g The GTVA have never figured out how to get it above 1-2 gravities (i.e nothing at all useful as a weapon). I don't see the need to invent some hideously complex Warpspace explaination when you can explain it in a single line.


You hadn't got me either - I didn't speak of weapons purely. Artificial gravity could have so many uses that I can't think of it all. It's like you finally gain control of all particles and can build indestructible stuff - BTW if they had AG they would have made some kind of shields on their own.

A subspace application on the other hand that's simulating gravity doesn't imply such plotholes.

BTW warpspace isn't complicated at all - instead a gravitic field you have a current that tends to pick up things.
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Offline karajorma

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
I get you. I just don't agree with you at all.
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Offline StratComm

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
First, gravity doesn't work that way; you feel weightless at constant velocity with no force applied.  Artificial gravity isn't even the same as anti-gravity.  It is nothing more than generating a force field, which is essentially what you're describing (except that velocity is not bound by force, at least not on the Newtonian level).  There could be any number of ways to generate said force field, none of which has any basis in what we see in the mainhalls.

I've got to agree with kara on this one; the whole "warpspace" issue not only is needlessly complicated, it's also fairly plainly not the case.  If it were, you'd have your fighters tending towards the bottom of a capital ship when you were close to it or between structural elements, which you can easily be with the Hecate, Hades, Hatshepsut, Colossus, or any of the Shivan destroyers.  If a you've got two competing explanations, the simpler of the two is probably the correct one.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2004, 05:38:20 pm by 570 »
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 
Ship size and role in the FS universe.
They all use grav boots! What´s simpler than that? :D
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Offline FireCrack

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Quote
Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
They all use grav boots! What´s simpler than that? :D



no, grav floors, normal boots. Only grav boots when grav floors arent available (boarding the shivan transport and other craft, new under construction stations, etc...)
actualy, mabye not.
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Offline karajorma

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Quote
Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
They all use grav boots! What´s simpler than that? :D


Watch the sparks in the FS1 mainhall. Are they putting grav boots on them too? :D
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


Watch the sparks in the FS1 mainhall. Are they putting grav boots on them too? :D


Or even just the loose, hanging cables.

 

Offline Flaser

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
First, gravity doesn't work that way; you feel weightless at constant velocity with no force applied.  Artificial gravity isn't even the same as anti-gravity.  It is nothing more than generating a force field, which is essentially what you're describing (except that velocity is not bound by force, at least not on the Newtonian level).  There could be any number of ways to generate said force field, none of which has any basis in what we see in the mainhalls.

I've got to agree with kara on this one; the whole "warpspace" issue not only is needlessly complicated, it's also fairly plainly not the case.  If it were, you'd have your fighters tending towards the bottom of a capital ship when you were close to it or between structural elements, which you can easily be with the Hecate, Hades, Hatshepsut, Colossus, or any of the Shivan destroyers.  If a you've got two competing explanations, the simpler of the two is probably the correct one.


Gravity does work exactly like that - whem you're falling you don't feel anything.

To be more exact you can't feel gravity since it a volumetric force - so each cm^3 of your body will accelerate the same (unless you're a 1.5km long dragon out of some fairytale), so you can't feel gravity itself.

Gravity doesn't lend weight to stuff - support and suspension does.

It is the rope you're hanging from or the floor beneath your feet that you can feel since those are pressure forces (they take effect on a plane force/plane = pressure).

Initially warpspace feels exactly the same as gravity - it tries to pull you with its flow so your suspension/support exerts force on you.

The difference is that if you jump of a ledge you will decreasingly reach a topspeed and don't accelerate anymore. - Such a field would be good for transportation too since you can easly predict the way stuff goes around.

Gundam also had a sort of semi-gravity they explained with Minovsky particles, but it is still a crucial point that it's not actual gravity they can create.

What I try to get through simply is that even if there is an AG system, we should try to come up with a plausible explanation that doesn't involve true artificial gravity. The reason is that the GTA/GTVA doesn't seem to posses such advanced technology.

As for the force field thing - it is easier said than done. All the spaceoperas (at least any that's derived from ST) had them, but they are all stupid!
Why? What kind of field can exert force on a particle?
Electro-Magnetic, Gravitic - I keep blabbering that possesing the later would solve a tons of issues the GTVA seems to have with its weaponry/prolusion/reactor systems.
Electro-Magnetic Fields on the other hand can only interact with charged particles. So unless everyone wears an electrified vest/boots or wears a lot of metal a conventional forcefield explainable by our current science would be problematic.

That's why I came up with a field that's based on subspace, since the only other such magical forcefield - shields - also seem to be based on subspace technology.

...and please don't come with ST/SW terms like tachions and whatsoever imaginary particles said things probably wouldn't produce any visible effect in interaction with common matter since we don't see them doing so...if tachions exist they are probably ghost particles that we can only get very faint glimse of even fainter than neutrinos.

On the other hand I am open to any plausible explanation of the GTA/GTVA AG technology that doesn't involve the common - it's sci-fi magic/xxxx-field + zzzz-particle.
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Offline Ghostavo

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
How can this "Warpspace" work if it isn't an acceleration?

I too don't "buy it". Each movement we make in order to walk, run, etc requires a constant force pulling us down. This force provides with acceleration so we do the stuff we do. What you are giving the FS universe is a speed. speed is not a force, and speed is impossible to provide without a force/acceleration. Such an acceleration should be constant or else such speed wouldn't exist and wouldn't make sense and with a constant acceleration the speed cannot be "capped". Therefore Warspace is quite improbable because in reality it would be artificial gravity.

Quote
That's why I came up with a field that's based on subspace, since the only other such magical forcefield - shields - also seem to be based on subspace technology.


Shields are not based on subspace technology or at least if it is one cannot see it. Just because it doesn't work in subspace doesn't mean it's based on it. If you put a normal car in the ocean it won't work. Does it mean it is based in "marine" technology? Also, the Reference Bible says that shields won't work because of the energy needed to enter subspace.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2004, 09:08:11 am by 1606 »
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Offline aldo_14

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
So, the GTVA obviously use a posi-hyperdrive-particle-director-HMSTR-drive to generate graviton beams that polarise the atomic structure of,er, people and depolarise the deck to create an inverse quantum mega-pull on the subatomic scale.

:)

 
Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


Watch the sparks in the FS1 mainhall. Are they putting grav boots on them too? :D


What?? You didn´t see it? Those sparks are carried away by a swarm of robotical worker bees! If you zoom in close enough, you will see them! And the cables? Haa! They are just coloured pixels, they don´t really exist! :D

Common people, we are arguing about something that exists only in the minds of the designers. And as such, we can invent any possible and concevable explanation for it. If i say they are all little angels, with little wings that allows them to float around without weight, can you really argue against it?

Quote
So, the GTVA obviously use a posi-hyperdrive-particle-director-HMSTR-drive to generate graviton beams that polarise the atomic structure of,er, people and depolarise the deck to create an inverse quantum mega-pull on the subatomic scale.


I´ll go along with this explanation, whatever it means.
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Offline Flaser

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Ship size and role in the FS universe.
Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo
How can this "Warpspace" work if it isn't an acceleration?

I too don't "buy it". Each movement we make in order to walk, run, etc requires a constant force pulling us down. This force provides with acceleration so we do the stuff we do. What you are giving the FS universe is a speed. speed is not a force, and speed is impossible to provide without a force/acceleration. Such an acceleration should be constant or else such speed wouldn't exist and wouldn't make sense and with a constant acceleration the speed cannot be "capped". Therefore Warspace is quite improbable because in reality it would be artificial gravity.



Shields are not based on subspace technology or at least if it is one cannot see it. Just because it doesn't work in subspace doesn't mean it's based on it. If you put a normal car in the ocean it won't work. Does it mean it is based in "marine" technology? Also, the Reference Bible says that shields won't work because of the energy needed to enter subspace.


Meh...no one seems to get it.

Warpfield is not a conventional field that exerts power on smg. it actually is a clever use of an old theory: ETHER

Before Einsteam and Relativistic physics were created it was thought that all EM-Waves travel in a substance called ether in a similar manner how waves travel in water.

Off course the ether theory was proven to be false since there is no such thing as a distinguishable intertial system.

I tried to circumvent the whole unknown magic parciles/force fields problem with a phenomenon that would produce the quasi same effect as gravity, but with a not so imaginary explanation.

Warpfield should be in fact called Warp Current - it is a ripple in the fabric of space, a wave that tries to push things in a direction.

If the wave pushes constatly you won't be able to tell the difference wheter its a constant force (a field) or something bumping into you (an object). The only indication that you're riding a wave is that once you've caught up with it you won't accelerate any more.

So warpfield/warpripple does provide acceleration, but not constant acceleration.

This wave is created by a potential differnce in the subspace field -which is the result of an asymetrically distorted field- ergo it is also false that it will draw everything.
The wave will only exist between two points with a different potential - so only between two subspace conducts with a different subspace potential. Anything outside that area won't be affected.

I hoped I could clear it up. IMHO warpfield/warpcurrent is simpler than some imaginary interaction that would simulate gravity.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2004, 01:50:07 pm by 997 »
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