[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Stunaep


Have you been following the news? For that matter have you even read my posts? If anything, Putin will do everything to blame it on the Chechenyans! Hell, he's been saying that the Chechenyans are involed in the actions of Al-Qaeda! He's been blaming the screw-ups of their own secret service on Chechenyans. It is in Russias best interests, to make seem like the Chechenyans were responsible for the hostage crisis, because it will turn the islamic and caucasian countries, who have previously been pro-chechen to the russian cause.

(NB)

Excerpts from Putins speech - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3627878.stm

"One cannot fail to see the obvious. We are dealing here not just with separate actions aimed at frightening us, not just with separate terrorist sorties.

We are dealing with direct intervention of international terrorism against Russia, with a total, cruel and full-scale war in which our compatriots die again and again.

The entire world experience shows that these wars, unfortunately, do not end quickly."

Like I said.

[Setekh]

320 dead. Unbelievable.

[Stunaep]

According to AFP, the number of the dead has now passed 400.

Oh and aldo, wait for it.

Also, I saw some other great quotes in that speech.

Today we are living in conditions which have emerged following the break-up of a vast great state, a state which unfortunately turned out to be unable to survive in the context of a rapidly changing world. But despite all the difficulties, we have managed to preserve the core of the colossus which was the Soviet Union.

You know, I'm really wondering why communism hasn't been declared a crime, unlike faschism.

Some want to cut off a juicy morsel from us while others are helping them.

The chechens suck, and people are helping them. So far so good.

Second, I think it is essential to create a new system for coordinating the forces and resources controlling the situation in the North Caucasus.

The peoples in North Caucasus (*ahem* chechens *ahem*) are ****ed.

[Gloriano]

According to AFP, the number of the dead has now passed 400.

Oh dear lord:(  really sad

[Sigma957]

Yeh and more than half of them are children

[Stunaep]

oh, and apparently over 200 are still missing, so expect that number to escalate even further.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Stunaep
You know, I'm really wondering why communism hasn't been declared a crime, unlike faschism.

Cause on paper communism is one of the fairest systems of government there is. Unfortunately in real life it tends to get subverted cause power corrupts.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Stunaep
According to AFP, the number of the dead has now passed 400.

Oh and aldo, wait for it.

 

For what?

[Sigma957]

Pity a resolution wasn't reached before all this death happened,surely there was a way out.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Rictor
I never tried to claim that the Chechens (Palestinians, Iraqi insurgents etc, depedning on the discussion) are innocent, only that both sides are guilty (to varying degrees of course).

[/b]
Well of course. However, the comparison you presented was about as useful as "Stalin was worse than Hitler".

I have made it clear on many occasions that I do not support violence against civilians, and I stand by that. I disagree with both the Chechen rebels and the Russian army's methods. But while I do not support the Russian goal, to occupy Chechnya, I do support the Chechen's goal, to end the occupation. And thats the real difference in my opinion. The end goal is still good, despite what has been done to achieve it, and though I do not support the way in which they are fighting, at least I support what they are fighting for.

[/b]
End does not justify means. I support the Chechen independence, but lately the place has been changed into a piece of **** and jihadist playground, much like Iraq. If it were just armed combat against troops, fine by me. When it comes to killing civilians, it
A) will propably definately help their course
B) will bite them in the leg
C) rest of the world supports Chechens even less.

If they want an Islamic state, so be it. Thats self-determination. And if they

[/b]
You see there's a correct ans

Also, if individual soldiers within the Russian army are not to be held respnsible, then why should individual rebels be held responsible for their actions? All of these people who held up the school, they should be set free, cause they were just following orders.
See, works both ways?

Yup. However, you stated that Russian ARMY is a terrorist, which I find a bit ridiculous claim. I was addressing that.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Rictor
Thats self-determination.  

Except when you replace the word Chechen with ethnic Albanian right?

Cause when a majority of the people wanted to form an independant nation in your homeland then they're terrorists not freedom fighters bravely fighting for independance right?

[vyper]

[q]Except when you replace the word Chechen with ethnic Albanian right?[/q]

Consider we started bombing Kosovo before any ethnic cleansing began, I'd be careful about using that argument.

[Bobboau]

ooooh!
someone's gona have a fight on there hands.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Janos
Yup. However, you stated that Russian ARMY is a terrorist, which I find a bit ridiculous claim. I was addressing that. [/B]

I actually know a siberian who served in Chechnya, when you hear storys about prisioners been driven over with tanks and women being gang-raped to death then its hard to not see the Russian army as being terrorists. Tool or not, the russian army is as guilty if not far more than the "jihadis" of terrorism.

[ionia23]

Well, it's good to see some people around here decided to let go of the "Secret KGB Conspiracy" cover up for what happened at the school.  This is more like it.

What 'should' happen and what 'will' happen are two different things.  Whatever the Chechens and Russia have been doing all along with simply continue.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by Gank


I actually know a siberian who served in Chechnya, when you hear storys about prisioners been driven over with tanks and women being gang-raped to death then its hard to not see the Russian army as being terrorists. Tool or not, the russian army is as guilty if not far more than the "jihadis" of terrorism.

Great, Osama Bin Gank raises his voice in jihaaaaad.  Freakin' lovely.

Here's a news flash for ya:  In war, people do crappy things.  Always.  Everyone.  Interesting that you'll mention this little nugget of information but you'll leave out what the chechen rebels do to their own populace, in addition to enemy Russian soliders and civilians from nearby towns.  And now there's this stunt with the school....

No, if you've got to do a balance of guilt argument, your terrorist buddies have it way stacked against them.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by ionia23
Well, it's good to see some people around here decided to let go of the "Secret KGB Conspiracy" cover up for what happened at the school.  This is more like it.
 

Not very hard to do, since the KGB doesn't exist for about 12 or so years.

[Fear]

****ing muslim they deserve to die.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Fear
****ing muslim they deserve to die.

Would you say the same about Christians? After all the majority of the population of the former Yugoslavia were christian and they got up to stuff just as dispicable.

Not to mention that about 40% of the SS were catholics too.

[Bobboau]

he's being sarcastic,
and I think he's implying Americans are racists.