[Solatar]

I have plenty of friends that are girls that have guys liking them (that they don't always like back). If somebody "tricked" one of my friends into kissing them, I'd kick their ass because it would undoubtedly upset the girl very much.

If the guy was three years older than her and tricking her into kissing him...well, that's just odd.

[Black Wolf]

Isn't 18/15 statutory? Wikipedia says yes. It also says:

The rationale is typically that although a person may be biologically mature enough to desire sexual intercourse, they may, lacking the additional years of experience possessed by legal adults, not be able to make mature or rational decisions as to whom they engage in sexual contact with and how they do so. Thus, even if they willingly engage in sexual intercourse with a legal adult, their sex partner may well have used tactics of manipulation or deceit against which the younger person has not yet developed sufficient discernment or defense.

[an0n]

That's a rather idealistic way of looking at it.

I've known plenty of older girls who were dumb as a box of rocks. Saying their age makes them more able to determine wether someone is manipulating them or not is just plain wrong.

[Ford Prefect]

I've also met some very precocious 15-year-olds. But the law can't compensate for things like that. It has to set a mark somewhere.

[BlackDove]

On the logical spectrum the Wikipedia article is true, but the reality is that most females these days are ****ing on a regular basis before they turn thirteen anyway.

All it really takes these days is shining something... shiny in front of their face, because as an0n said, dumb as a box of rocks.

Thing is, as FP said, law has to mark it somewhere. Stupidity is a valid excuse up until a certain age, but after you turn a satisfactory age, being a stupid whore is your fault.

All in all, anyone who needs to try and cash in on that stupidity, be it simply age factor exploitation or maliciousness, or the fact that they're too ****ing stupid themselves, they can be very proud of themselves.

[Grey Wolf]

On the logical spectrum the Wikipedia article is true, but the reality is that most females these days are ****ing on a regular basis before they turn thirteen anyway.

You do realize that all the studies suggest the average age for first intercourse is closer to 17, right?

[aldo_14]

That's a rather idealistic way of looking at it.

I've known plenty of older girls who were dumb as a box of rocks. Saying their age makes them more able to determine wether someone is manipulating them or not is just plain wrong.

There's a difference between - leaving out various mental defects/disability of course - intelligence and rationality.  There's general evidence that the impulse control/decision making part of the brain (dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex) in 16-and-under are significantly less developed than even those a year or so older (and this part keeps developing until 25).  Essentially, in the majority if not all of cases, an 16 or under has a significantly less developed ability to control themselves or make rational decisions, due simply to the natural development of the brain.

[an0n]

You do realize that all the studies suggest the average age for first intercourse is closer to 17, right?

But that's only because the Geek Factor drags it up.

A few start ****ing when they're 13 or less, most start ****ing in the 14-16 bracket, a few start in the 17-21 bracket and a ****load of geeks don't get laid till they're in their 40s. So it ****s up the average.

And the average would be 17 if half started ****ing at 13 and half started ****ing at 21.

So the average don't mean ****.

[an0n]

There's a difference between - leaving out various mental defects/disability of course - intelligence and rationality. There's general evidence that the impulse control/decision making part of the brain (dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex) in 16-and-under are significantly less developed than even those a year or so older (and this part keeps developing until 25). Essentially, in the majority if not all of cases, an 16 or under has a significantly less developed ability to control themselves or make rational decisions, due simply to the natural development of the brain.

You're confusing the rational decision with the Right One.

Just because they can't think **** through fully doesn't mean they're any more or less likely to be right about it.

And I didn't mean dumb-stupid. I meant dumb-naive.

And people only learn about relationships by way of all their horrific mistakes anyway...

[BlackDove]

On the logical spectrum the Wikipedia article is true, but the reality is that most females these days are ****ing on a regular basis before they turn thirteen anyway.

You do realize that all the studies suggest the average age for first intercourse is closer to 17, right?

That's because people lie.

[Fineus]

And people only learn about relationships by way of all their horrific mistakes anyway...

That much at least is true. Advice is a fine thing, but by making mistakes in relationships we best learn not to do it a second time.

[aldo_14]

There's a difference between - leaving out various mental defects/disability of course - intelligence and rationality. There's general evidence that the impulse control/decision making part of the brain (dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex) in 16-and-under are significantly less developed than even those a year or so older (and this part keeps developing until 25). Essentially, in the majority if not all of cases, an 16 or under has a significantly less developed ability to control themselves or make rational decisions, due simply to the natural development of the brain.

You're confusing the rational decision with the Right One.

Just because they can't think **** through fully doesn't mean they're any more or less likely to be right about it.

And I didn't mean dumb-stupid. I meant dumb-naive.

And people only learn about relationships by way of all their horrific mistakes anyway...

Naive is an entirely different concept.  What you need to consider is that it's not to do with what you  do or do not know in order to evaluate a decision, but having the physical capacity that makes you consider that knowledge.  A naive person is naive because they misunderstand the  - for lack of a better term - problem domain in solving some problem.  Whereas a teenager in this context, simply doesn't consider the problem domain.  It's particularly important vis-a-vis impulse control, of course.  In any case, it's pretty evident that taking an action with some consideration of the consequences will lead to a better action and forethought towards recovery from the possible negative consequences.

[Ford Prefect]

You do realize that all the studies suggest the average age for first intercourse is closer to 17, right?

That's a little hard to believe from what I saw in high school.

[Charismatic]

And people only learn about relationships by way of all their horrific mistakes anyway...

That much at least is true. Advice is a fine thing, but by making mistakes in relationships we best learn not to do it a second time.

Yeah, except i cant afford to screw up this relationship.

Still waiting for lockage.

Wow, someone must think they got balls that clank.

Now, to the point..
Ovbiously, nothing anyone says will change your mind*it might*, Charismatic. Truth is, no matter how much "charisma" you work on this girl, it's just not going to work. You might assume that she might not make your life a living hell, but trust me, women are devious. A girl her age, probably being under the age of consent, has all the power in the world to make your life a living hell. You're an adult as well, that is if you're in the US. Once you're 18, you're an adult in the law's eyes, and her word usually is golden if she's good enough to pull it off. I've seen this happen to three teachers in my old hometown,
Why am I convinced that you'll still do it? You said it yourself: Hormones.
You're thinking with the wrong head here, and no, I'm not saying you want sex from the girl, but you honestly are letting the testosterone take over instead of common sense and logical thinking. Common sense meaning if she's avoiding you, or expressed disinterest when you gushed to her, well then it's pretty damn safe to say she isnt going to accept a kiss. It honestly does sound like you're trying to have your way with her, and since it seemed like you didn't understand it when Ace said it, it means that you're forcing this kiss on her. Even if it's supposed to be a "suprise" move, it's still forced, because common sense tells ME that she's UNINTERESTED.

Expect a slap, and DON'T expect sympathy from the board if you DO get slapped. And if you Dont get slapped, hey, more power to ya, but I'm sure there'll be a 3-part harmony chorus of "TOOOLD YA SOOO" from the board if you tell us it didnt work out the way you wanted to.

I understand now, thank you. Yeah, i guess i would be forcing a kiss. And no, i would not whine to the forms if something went wrong afterwords.
EDIT: I 'struck out' that bit. Its inacurate- so to speak. She was not avoiding me.

Anyways...

Insofar as Char's problem goes:

He will never be able to have a friendship with the girl when he was unresolved feelings. They'll just simmer away and gnaw at his soul until he snaps and rapes her, then has to cut her throat and burry her in the woods to keep from being raped in prison
Go nuts, roll the dice, take your chances, **** her..

See, thats exactly it. A thought of kissing her, iv had for ages. It got stronger and stronger that now i actually feel like i should do it. But, no i wont rape her.

If this 'friendship' is an excuse to have your way with her, then you're surely as pathetic as Cobra suggests. I suspect it is, as she's already told you that you're just friends and you're still looking at ways to go for it. But if you're a real friend, then back off and find someone more realistic, as given all you claim to have told her, she's still rejecting you.

Go any further and you could be the youngest piece of ass on cell block 4.

To be clear. This friendship is NOT an excuse to kiss her. 1) I wouldent ever do that 2) It would be an emmence waste of time. We have known eachother almsost a full year now.

Please excuze my very long quote and responce, reply.

No. What are you trying to do, trick her?

And. 15. Christ sake, that's a kid. Most schools - or unis - you'd get flayed for that.

Not trying to trick her. I just feel i would like to kiss her and leave it as that. As a show of affection and care.

Look, if she doesn't want it, accept it. It doesn't matter that it's 'just a kiss' or somesuch, it's still a very personal 'invasion' of space, and it also puts her in a horrible position of her own as to how to react. I think to me it sounds like you know it'd be the wrong step to take, and you're trying to find a justification for it.

Very good point. I will think about that. Kudos.

[Fineus]

Yeah, except i cant afford to screw up this relationship.

If that's really so then don't do anything or try to force her into anything she's not comfortable with. Otherwise you're going to have to run the risk of losing what you have.

[IceFire]

Yeah, except i cant afford to screw up this relationship.

If that's really so then don't do anything or try to force her into anything she's not comfortable with. Otherwise you're going to have to run the risk of losing what you have.

Sound advice.  If anything is going to happen...she can initiate it.  While others tell me this and I tend to ignore it myself...its probably true that there are many fish in the pond it just takes time.  In my unfortunate case I was too wrapped up in getting into university and then getting through the hellish program that I was in to have time to get into these sorts of things.  I tried...half heartedly...but without much success.  Thanks to some good advice I'm going to be a bit selfish for a while...focus on me and me alone and work my life out.

Thats what you may need to do for a while as well.

[an0n]

Friends come and go.

And the few that stay tend to forget about all the stupid **** you did.

Just walk up to her, drag her somewhere quiet and tell her. Don't explain it. Don't inform her. Just ****ing tell her you wanna put your penis in her, and in as straightforward a manner as possible (without using the words 'penis' or 'inside'). She'll probably look all flustered and caught off-guard. Then you go "Look, I'm not expecting anything, I just felt I had to tell you." If she doesn't tear your clothes off there and then, she'll probably say she needs time to think about it.

Then she'll sit you down and give you this big, long, boring chat about how much she values your friendship. If she wants to **** you, she'll say something along the lines of "let's see how this go". If she doesn't (and never will) she'll just stop with the 'value your friendship' ****.

Whatever she says, look like you accept it, but with a subtle look of happiness or resignation depending on how she wants to play it.

Tada.

[Taristin]

And people only learn about relationships by way of all their horrific mistakes anyway...

That much at least is true. Advice is a fine thing, but by making mistakes in relationships we best learn not to do it a second time.

Yeah, except i cant afford to screw up this relationship.

Why? Is this little pre-pubescant girl the love of your life, soulmate, person you are destined to spend the rest of your life with until you die at the ripe old age of 42 and she remarries?

[an0n]

As I said before: My junkie brother was 20 when he met his 15 year old girlfriend, 3 years ago. They're a few signatures away from getting a house together.

Age means very little if the people involved are pathetic enough.

[Grey Wolf]

You do realize that all the studies suggest the average age for first intercourse is closer to 17, right?

That's a little hard to believe from what I saw in high school.

Perhaps your high school is a poor representative sample.