[Snail]

Another reason to protect it.

[foolfromhell]

I thought the common idea was Inferno was canon in the FS universe? According to this community anyway.

[Polpolion]

I thought the common idea was Inferno was canon in the FS universe? According to this community anyway.

No
Canon = was in FS1, FS1:ST, or FS2

Non-canon = anything else

[Mars]

I thought the common idea was Inferno was canon in the FS universe? According to this community anyway.

*Shoots self*

What next? The Shivan Manifesto?

[Qwer]

Snail - about first one I didn't told it well. About "expensive" I meant it uses some kind of hard-to-produce reactors, very rare minerals or something like that. BTW I always wondered why Shivan fleet from FS1 was much weaker if it comes to technology than one from FS2. I found it very hard to explain, few possibilities are:
- they had problems somewhere else and must've sent quickly-repaired old ships like old Lucy and Demons without flaks, beams and so on
- they didn't want to beat GTVA completly but instead give them chances to win
- Ancients were destroyed by another, powerfull race and Shivans only got their technologies.

[Turey]

I thought the common idea was Inferno was canon in the FS universe? According to this community anyway.

*Shoots self*

What next? The Shivan Manifesto?

Yup. And then the Capellan Barbecue Theory. 

Oh, and Snail, I really hate those "These aren't the same Shivans" theories.

[karajorma]

I thought the common idea was Inferno was canon in the FS universe? According to this community anyway.

Someone put that in the Freespace wikipedia entry. It was removed as soon as it was noticed as it's absolute nonsense. Inferno is just a campaign amongst many others. In fact given that Derelict beats in every single poll it would be a bloody strange choice even if the community were stupid enough to elevate one campaign above all others.

[Snail]

As much as I like Inferno, I agree.....

But what happend, exactly?

[Mars]

And people wonder why I'm a canon whore on the wiki 

As much as I like Inferno, I agree.....

But what happend, exactly?

What happened where?
----------------------------------------

Really in the FS future I don't even see Golgotha like ships happening... I see large glorified bombers and Monitors... maybe that missile corvette... and many more fighters.

[Snail]

Well, a destroyer armed with a BFGreen is sort of a monitor....

Exactly what was said to make people think Inferno was canon? And in which article? The one I created?

[AlphaOne]

Here is a damn good question: Exactly when did the Collie failed at its "original" pourpose?

The answer is never. In fact it performed remarkebly well for a GTVA vessel on its first missions out.

The Collie was NEVER suposed to engage ships anywhere near its size or power not to mention that the Sath actualy has more firepower mounted on its forward firing ark then the entire broadside of the Collie !

[Mefustae]

Thanks for that, Captain Obvious.

Without a doubt, the Colossus succeeded at its role of area denial to enemy fleets, and she would have undoubtedly have proven effective against a Lucy had she faced one, but the fact remains that the design is logically flawed. Having one, all-powerful vessel is all well and good, but it simply cannot beat the force-projection of a number of smaller vessels. Moreover, whereas the loss of a Colossus-class would be a crippling blow to the GTVA, the odds of losing a similar amount of materials & crew when dealing with fleet of smaller vessels is miniscule in comparison.

The merits of the Colossus-class are a moot point in this arguement. The future of the GTVA lies with fleets of smaller, more specialised vessels, as most contributors to this thread have already pointed out.

[Snail]

Meson Torpedoes carried by ships ala the Earthshaker by Hamano could be a good idea too.

[Freespace Freak]

I always imagined that after Capella, Command would look to find ways to quickly take out Shivan Juggernauts.  A new Colossus would have to match an SJ, at the least, and at most be able to outright destroy one with no problem and maybe be able to engage multiple Saths.  But building a huge fleet of these Juggernauts would not be an option, since the Colossus took so much time to build.  So, the GTVA would have to come up with new technologies in the interim that would be capable of taking on huge fleets of Sathani quickly.  The answer, a new type of bomber, specially designed to take on Sathani, a strategic bomber.  It's sort of like how new American Bombers after WWII went from tactical to strategic bombing.  This is the case for this bomber.  A single meson bomb is probably powerful enough to destroy or seriously disable a Sathanas.  So these bombers would be decisive in these engagements.  These bombers would be large, nearly the size of a small ship, and capable of intersystem jumps, standard.  In battle, they'd likely be escorted  by at least a wing of fighters and possibly even some tactical bombers to handle any small capital ship that gets in the way.  The bomber itself would have at least two defensive turrets, one a flak gun, and the other an anti-fighter beam, and would have a crew of about five, like a modern B-52. 

The task force would have to find a way to escape the meson blast, and that could be done in one of two ways.  The ships in the task force could be equipped with some sort of "rocket boosters" (no doubt it can be called a "fusion booster" or some other technical jargon) that would fire once the payload has been delivered.  These boosters would be designed to burn long enough to get all the ships at least three kilometers away from the bomb in a short period.  The bomb itself would latch on to the target and delay detonation until a certain period of time, just enough for the task force escape.  The strategic bombers would not unleash their payloads until they were very close to the target.

Another way is to redesign the meson itself so that it becomes a shaped charge, focusing all its blast energy on the target.  This would have the added effect of making the weapon much more damaging to its target, definitely making one meson bomb lethal for a Sathanas.  The task force might still need boosters to get far enough away from the Sath as it explodes.

The strategic bomber concept should be very effective against the Shivans.  The GTVA should be able to create a large multitude of these task forces quickly.  They would be so effective that it would put the Shivans on the defensive and would not engage their SJs unless they knew that these task forces were destroyed.  So using them to early might be detrimental.  So, what I think the GTVA should do is build one or two Juggernauts, to make it look like the GTVA is looking to destroy the Sathani using conventional means.  The plan is that destroying one or two Sathani with this Juggernaut would convince the Shivans to bring out their whole fleet of Jugs, at this point this is where the GTVA unleashes their strategic bomber task force, to try to take out all of these Saths at once.  No doubt many will escape and then the GTVA will go into pursuit.  This might lead the GTVA to the Shivans' homeworld or home ship, whatever the case may be.

These strategic bomber groups would have the effect of leveling the playing field, in the end.  These Stategic bombers would be inefective against regular destroyers since they would be exploiting the weaknesses of the SJ's near defenseless rear.  Against regular destroyers, they wouldn't be able to get close enough.  The final battles between the GTVA and the Shivans would be between more conventional platforms such as the Destroyer.  This final war would be a fight to the death, with only three possibilities, death of the GTVA, death of the Shivans, or possibly a peace deal brokered by Admiral Bosch.

[AdmiralRalwood]

I thought the common idea was Inferno was canon in the FS universe? According to this community anyway.

Someone put that in the Freespace wikipedia entry. It was removed as soon as it was noticed as it's absolute nonsense. Inferno is just a campaign amongst many others. In fact given that Derelict beats in every single poll it would be a bloody strange choice even if the community were stupid enough to elevate one campaign above all others.

Not only that, but at the very least I find Inferno's story (at least the R1 story, I don't know if INF:A or INF SCP will be of a higher quality or not, as I'm not really keeping track) to be flawed. But that's another story, so back on-topic.

EDIT: When I posted this, I had not seen INF: A had been released (holy crap!). I'm going to go try it and see how the plot looks.

- they didn't want to beat GTVA completly but instead give them chances to win

What, like ngtm1r's Shivan Theory?

[Snail]

FSFreak freaks out again.

Good idea, but I don't support making ANY juggernauts whatsoever. Making a juggernaut takes time and patience, as well as money, and making one is unnecessary, just send in the strategic task force straight off the bat and smack up the Shivans. But these bombers won't work if the Shivans deploy fighters or somekind of anti-fighter cruiser to repel any small-scale (?) attack, armed with many SAAA and rapid cannons.

Building strategic combat carriers around 4km in size and then sending them in to destroy the immediate warship threat that it can handle, send out escorted strategic bomber wings, and then watch them annhialate the Sathy. That would be a good idea IMO.

[spartan_0214]

Victory in numbers, Snail?

[lefkos]

i think of more classes
now there are cruiser corvette destroyer juggernaught
newer classes (i combining them with the old 1)
light cruiser, medium cruiser ,heavy cruiser  ,anti-fighter/bomber cruiser, anti-capship cruiser
light corvette, medium corvette ,heavy corvette, anti-fighter/bomber corvette , anti-capship corvette
light frigate ,medium frigate ,heavy frigate, anti-fighter/bomber frigate ,anti-capship frigate
light destroyer, medium destroyer, heavy destroyer, anitF/B destroyer,  anti-capship destroyer
light juggernaught , medium juggernaught , heavy juggernaught, anti-F/B juggernaught anti-capship juggernaught
carrier class
light dreadnaught, medium dreadnaught, heavy dreadnaught, anti-F/B dreadnaught anti-capship dreadnaught

all the normall classes are comparable with the classes that are normal ingame
with the light medium heavy i mean the weaponry not size(that also possible) but lighter weapons for the light classes but also better speed and maneuverability for medium the settings that are in game and for the heavy more powerfull weapons but worser speed and maneuverability
anti-F/B(fighter/bomber) classes have the weapons that are effective on fighter and bombers
and at last the anti-capship classes are more effective against capships.

for weapons and stuff
maybe some fighterbeams , railguns  machine guns or some sniper reactin weapon
also maybe  beamprotected shields(not completly  but its harder for beams to penetrate)

and for beams (This is used in inferno) more sizes in beams like Fgreen Sgreen Mgreen Hgreen Bgreen BFgreen SBFgreen Ugreen Ogreen Pgreen
F=Fighter beam
S= Small
M= medium
H= huge
b = big
BF = (never knowed  were the BF in game was..)
SBF super (never knowd were the BF in game was..)
U = ultra
O  = omega
P = Planetairy (for planetairy bombardments or very large ships)

and maybe shields for capships !

[Snail]

If the GTVA were to make a jugg, then the Vasudans should be the main contributor because the Terrans are in a worse state than them.

[NGTM-1R]

I disagree with both of those statements. The first one says the Shivans have to pay their workers and pay for their raw materials. If this was so, how much money would it take to build the Sathy fleet? A few googleplex ShivoTokens?

Expensive doesn't mean necessarily either. It can simply mean not cost-effective, i.e. you can get more out of that amount of resources/time/Shivanpower by using them in other ships. Because no matter how you look at it time, energy, and people must be expended in gathering the resources, processing them, construction, and the ship has to be crewed.

What, like ngtm1r's Shivan Theory?

Where in the heck did I say that?


A juggernaut project would give the GTVA as a whole something to rally around, and possibly help to stimulate the economy. Massive government expenditure works both ways. Just ask Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Plus people tend to issue credit to the government more willingly than most organizations, because the government's word is generally good in such transactions.