[Admiral Nelson]

The Iceni model is especially sad -- it must be 95% done, with just some errors to fix.  Yet it languishes unreleased.  I thought about trying to start a project to finish off all of these mostly but not quite done models floating around, but since I don't have any ability to do them myself, I'd be in a position of just asking other people to do work.  It is quite unfortunate how many such models there are....

[neoterran]

FFS, people. Stop calling it HTLing and talking about HTL models. HTL is Hardware Transform and Lighting, a hardware level EFFECT that is taken advantage of in coding the GAME. The models are high polygon, or hi-poly models. You can't make a model HTL. The game code has to support the HTL effects that the card can do. It is ignorant, even stupid, to keep calling these models HTL models.

I propose we rename everything to HP (for High-Poly) and the admins grep the site and the serialized forum database dump and change everything !

[S-99]

Who came up with calling fs2 hi poly models htl? htl models first confused me. It made me think, where well do i download the fs2 build that has htl. Lol, the htl name for the models is confusing for newbies.
Who named them htl in the first place?
Originally i got use to the htl for hipoly new models, and i like it now, and don't want it to change...but it still should of course.
But now i'm just thinking of the stupidity of the people who post highlights for htl models on the hlp home page.
Check out VA's htl lucifer, everyones like what's this? Click on it all you get is pictures and time estimates and wip on a model and you're wondering where is there anything to actually do with hardware transform and lighting?

Refering to the hipoly models as htl is sort of addictive. It's a cool name for them, you can't just do something like call them hipoly, give them a badass name, htl sort of fits that badassity, except htl reference to a hipoly model is so dumb****.

[neoterran]

Who came up with calling fs2 hi poly models htl? htl models first confused me. It made me think, where well do i download the fs2 build that has htl. Lol, the htl name for the models is confusing for newbies.
Who named them htl in the first place?

We will drag this man out on his knees and swiftly behead him. 

[Raven2001]

@Raven: I did put the model file and scene up for DL for someone else to finish. Months ago. Nobody did anything with it.

Well, wasnt referring to you personally... in fact I dont recall you being behind the models I mentioned
But anyways, if even THAT what you describe happens, things are bad indeed since last time I was actively around :\

Tbh I dunno at what state of development the model you referred was, but for instance the Iceni, that only needs a few minor fixes to get done, isnt out here yet. Its rly sad, as Adm Nelson pointed out

The game code has to support the HTL effects that the card can do. It is ignorant, even stupid, to keep calling these models HTL models.

First of all, I call whatever I want to those models. I can even call them Joe Models if I so wish... and you call them whatever you wish yourself...
Second, Id (and other ppl as well) expect that even the most narrowed viewed person would understand the logic behind designating said models as HTL... Ill enlighten you.
Once upon a time, a game called Freespace 2 did NOT have Hardware Transform & Lightning support in its code. After the release of the source code, some talented individuals managed to integrate HTL in the code. And we modelers began doing SHIPS\MODELS to be used on the HTL supported FS2, that is SHIPS to take advantage of HTL... hence HTL Ships...

It is ignorant, even stupid, to not have understood this by now

And thats all the time I was willing to spare on pointless debates with some1 Ive never heard about and who thinks he is someone more enlightned than others that are here for longer and fought to gain respect from this community... So dont bother replying back coz it will just be ignored

[neoterran]

And thats all the time I was willing to spare on pointless debates with some1 Ive never heard about and who thinks he is someone more enlightned than others that are here for longer and fought to gain respect from this community... So dont bother replying back coz it will just be ignored

Way to start an argument buddy !

They shouldn't be called HTL anymore, it's kind of silly since HTL has been supported now for years and really referring to the models means just that they're High Poly as nothing in the model determines if HTL is used or not.

[CaptJosh]

Also, the argument on the fact that the game did not always have HTL support is not relevant. The models themselves are not HTL because HTL is a hardware level thing, suppported in rendering engines, not in models. Models merely take advantage of the capability, whether high or low poly.

[Raven2001]

Way to start an argument buddy !

Wasnt to start m8, was to finish it

And in fact wasnt for you, was for smartass wannabe that call other people (me included) stupid and ignorant just because they dont share his point of view on naming conventions

And for you, like I said, each one calls it what they want, and I wont argue on that.

[wolf]

HTL is Hardware Transform and Lighting, a hardware level EFFECT that is taken advantage of in coding the GAME. (...) It is ignorant, even stupid, to keep calling these models HTL models.

It's quite funny that you call people ignorant, yet at the same time you say that HTL is an "effect" of some sort.

[neoterran]

alright lets just forget about who's stupid and who's ignorant here.

Wouldn't it just make more sense not to use the HTL moniker and use HP (for High-Poly) instead ?

[Zacam]

I, for one, am not ignorant or stupid. I am however simply following the ascribed conventions of this board for the sake of clarity in which there is a sticky-fied post related to "HTL Models" and the fact that common parlance for talking about these models or designating them has been to call them "HTL (modelname)".

Though, that's of gusto to go naming off some of the most repectable model makers here as being either of the above when they make a release post for their model and call it HTL.

Now, if it said "High-Poly Models" then I could short form that into being "HP Models" which would probably start having people asking what Hewlett-Packard has to do with all of this.

Whether the convention makes sense or not or is even technically accurate does not seem to make any difference to common usage or common understanding. If people seem to associate to the fact that "HTL" in the model means that it's more updated than the typical retail model, then it certainly can't be that bad. It's only when the brainiacs who have something to chew on go off on the fact that it's all inappropriate usage and decides that everyone is a bunch of monkeys for following suit to simplify things that really irks me.

[BS403]

Tbh I dunno at what state of development the model you referred was, but for instance the Iceni, that only needs a few minor fixes to get done, isnt out here yet. Its rly sad, as Adm Nelson pointed out

I'm not sure if you noticed but a partially finished pof was released. I'm sure someone could convert it back and finish if they really wanted to.

[Taristin]

This thread is really sad. The non stop bickering and "omg not realistic" makes me (I dunno about others) not really want to even work on the model...

[Flaser]

The reason why hi-poly models were dubbed HTL is 'cause only HTL builds could handle them.

There you have it....now go and do somethign productive.

[CaptJosh]

But there aren't any non-HTL builds anymore. It's pointless now.

[Vasudan Admiral]

For me at least (and I'd expect some other modelers), the implementation of the HTL engine was probably my single most exciting time in the FS community ever. I for one will always continue to call them HTL models because of that. Also, if we spend weeks, months or more on it, we should be able to designate it whatever we like.

That and as has been mentioned, calling them simply 'high poly' models is dull. Besides - it doesn't cover the new textures some of them have.

===

Back closer to the topic, I want to know how it is that Aldo posted THIS pic of an awesome vasudan-in-a-cockpit mesh he's made that would be so perfect for use in HTLed vasudan craft,...... and it was so thoroughly ignored?!

Drop the silly HTL vs HP designation debate and whip out your begging kits people!

[Raven2001]

This thread is really sad. The non stop bickering and "omg not realistic" makes me (I dunno about others) not really want to even work on the model...

Again, could you specify which model that was, and the state of development?!?

Oh and as for those "blah blah not realistic" or "blah blah, the V model didnt have that" arguments: people are entitled to their opinions on that ofc... and you can just ignore those comments on your model developments
On this issue the way I think is simple. It doesnt have to be ultra realistic, its a game after all. And most of all, why stick to 100% V when they had poly constraints that we dont nowadays?!?
Christ Ive seen all the sorts of "its different from the V model" arguments that were completely unnecessary IMO... the Cain\Lilith comes to mind with the extruded missile turret, and Lightspeed saying that wasnt a Cain\Lilith... I mean, arent we modelers allowed to some artistic license here?!?
Take the Hecate for instance... any1 complained about that one?! I cant remember any1 doing so tbh. Is it 100% V acurate?!? NO, but it looks way better.
Making an updated version of a ship isnt just smooth it non-stop and\or add extrusions to simulate the plating... its putting in it your own creative soul as well, add things that werent there before but that could have been there, had V had the poly limits we have now...
My 2 cents on the matter

Oh and yeah... the HTL Myrmidon is mine... sooner or later 

[aldo_14]

For christ-monkeys sake, it doesn't matter whether 'HTLing a model' is nitpickity correct, but that people understand what it means.

(sorry, I just wanted to say 'christ-monkey')

On the subject of old Bob, anyone can have the model but they'll need to be able to build and map their own cockpit to use it.

[Vasudan Admiral]

You mean modeling and mapping the 'tub' shape that the cockpit submodel sits in?

[Taristin]

This thread is really sad. The non stop bickering and "omg not realistic" makes me (I dunno about others) not really want to even work on the model...

Again, could you specify which model that was, and the state of development?!?


Oh and yeah... the HTL Myrmidon is mine... sooner or later 

I dont know what you're going on about. Ive been talking about the Myrmidon the entire time. As I am the one who initially showed pictures of it with the standing cocpit...