Author Topic: GTVA Advantages?  (Read 40672 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mobius

  • Back where he started
  • 213
  • Porto l'azzurro Dolce Stil Novo nella fantascienza
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • The Lightblue Ribbon | Cultural Project
It means nothing. The Shivans are already weakened and/or don't use their ships well. The Iblis fires with just one SRed, for example. The Ravana doesn't launch many spacecraft....etc etc
The Lightblue Ribbon

Inferno: Nostos - Alliance
Series Resurrecta: {{FS Wiki Portal}} -  Gehenna's Gate - The Spirit of Ptah - Serendipity (WIP) - <REDACTED> (WIP)
FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project
A tribute to FreeSpace in my book: Riflessioni dall'Infinito

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Neither fo the GTVA ships..

and it's not true that shivan fighters are weak - they are not. It's the fact that GTVA closed the fihgter design gap, and jumped over it.
Shivan primaries do too little damage, but that's game (in)balance for you.


Quote
FS is like Star Wars. Tech stays the same after thousands of years. That's why the Shivans are no better than they were when they killed the Ancients. There's no adatibility. There's no strategy or "intelligence", in every sense of the word. There are, however, mindless BoEs, wingmen who refuse to use Trebuchets properly, and endlessly respawning wings- that's FS's idea of tactics. And MOAR BEAMs is the only way to win this way.

So it's hard to say which race is more intelligent or adaptable in FS context. Because that isn't the point of the game.
:wtf: :wtf:

GTVA tech moves forward..obvioously....seriously that's one of hte ...lamest things I ever heard.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline AlphaOne

  • !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 210
well for one thing GTVA tech while not as advanced in some areas is already better then the shivans tech in others!
Also who said they can not replicatre or improve shivan tech?? Anyone remember the Terran Mara it was better then the original ppl! So if they somehow got theyr hands on a shivan cruiser or corvette or even better a destroyer man oh man the shivans would be in for a huge nasty surprise in just a few years time!
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> < ) 

This is Bunny . Copy  Bunny  into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

 

Offline Bob-san

  • Wishes he was cool
  • 210
  • It's 5 minutes to midnight.
*imagines a line of GTVD RavDemLucys*
NGTM-1R: Currently considering spending the rest of the day in bed cuddling.
GTSVA: With who...?
Nuke: chewbacca?
Bob-san: The Rancor.

 

Offline AlphaOne

  • !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 210
just imagine The Beast (GTD Orion ) as i call it with shivan tech on it! I mean thats ownage! ;)) Or even better the sobek and the deimos with shivan beams ! Oh sweeeeet!
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> < ) 

This is Bunny . Copy  Bunny  into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

 
The GTVA has the advantage of adaptability.  If they capture Shivan technology in its entirety, they can not only replicate it exactly, but also make significant improvements on it (SF Mara, Sekhmet, UD-8 Kayser), thereby closing the technological age gap almost instantly.

In FS1, technicians had serious problems with the captured Dragon. Beams are still primitive. There's no way the GTVA can "match" Shivan technology(expecially subspace technology). It can get closer...but it surely can't fill the gap.

I believe that Dragon was severely damaged when it was captured, thus it wasn't exactly 'in its entirety'.  Who wants to bet if the GTVA capped an intact Dragon they would boost its armor/engines/shielding, make it compatible with Kaysers and turn it into a bomber's worst nightmare? (LOL at Alpha 1 flying a souped up SF Dragon...)

Better yet, if the GTVA captured a Lilith, they would have to capability to build LRed cannons and supporting reactors + heatsinks into their cruisers and up  ;7  (then when they overdrive their beams they could pump out BFReds...or make reactors and heatsinks big enough to support BFReds full-time, like for a Colossus)

Unfortunately Shivan freighters are still better than GTVA ones, I made a FRED scenario to check it out :/  But you can't win everything right?

 

Offline Mobius

  • Back where he started
  • 213
  • Porto l'azzurro Dolce Stil Novo nella fantascienza
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • The Lightblue Ribbon | Cultural Project
No, capturing something doesn't mean being able to replicate it.

What if WWI factions obtained data regarding(or captured) an F-22? Do you think they would have been able to build F-22s? No!
The Lightblue Ribbon

Inferno: Nostos - Alliance
Series Resurrecta: {{FS Wiki Portal}} -  Gehenna's Gate - The Spirit of Ptah - Serendipity (WIP) - <REDACTED> (WIP)
FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project
A tribute to FreeSpace in my book: Riflessioni dall'Infinito

 

Offline Turey

  • Installer dude
  • 211
  • The diminutive form of Turambar.
    • FreeSpace Open Installer Homepage
No, capturing something doesn't mean being able to replicate it.

What if WWI factions obtained data regarding(or captured) an F-22? Do you think they would have been able to build F-22s? No!

*cough*

Anyway, it would have allowed them to reach the stage where they could build F-22s much faster.
Creator of the FreeSpace Open Installer.
"Calm. The ****. Down." -Taristin
why would an SCP error be considered as news? :wtf: *smacks Cobra*It's a feature.

 

Offline Mobius

  • Back where he started
  • 213
  • Porto l'azzurro Dolce Stil Novo nella fantascienza
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • The Lightblue Ribbon | Cultural Project
Meh...an American style film? :wtf:

No, thanks.

Anyway, it would have allowed them to reach the stage where they could build F-22s much faster.

:yes:
The Lightblue Ribbon

Inferno: Nostos - Alliance
Series Resurrecta: {{FS Wiki Portal}} -  Gehenna's Gate - The Spirit of Ptah - Serendipity (WIP) - <REDACTED> (WIP)
FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project
A tribute to FreeSpace in my book: Riflessioni dall'Infinito

 

Offline AlphaOne

  • !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 210
Roger that it would mean that they would be able to build f 22 like what a few decades ahead of its time? And if that is the case then imgine the more advanced fighterdeigns that would of been in place today! I cant even begin to imagine!
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> < ) 

This is Bunny . Copy  Bunny  into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

 

Offline Mobius

  • Back where he started
  • 213
  • Porto l'azzurro Dolce Stil Novo nella fantascienza
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • The Lightblue Ribbon | Cultural Project
But that's impossible.
The Lightblue Ribbon

Inferno: Nostos - Alliance
Series Resurrecta: {{FS Wiki Portal}} -  Gehenna's Gate - The Spirit of Ptah - Serendipity (WIP) - <REDACTED> (WIP)
FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project
A tribute to FreeSpace in my book: Riflessioni dall'Infinito

 
No, capturing something doesn't mean being able to replicate it.

What if WWI factions obtained data regarding(or captured) an F-22? Do you think they would have been able to build F-22s? No!

Not immediately, but given time they would (they'd have to figure out the fundamental stuff, like computing, metallurgy, engineering and physics...etc., before moving to the technicals - building machines, devices to build the little stuff to make the tiny components of the jet), the only question is how long would it take?  If they somehow got their hands on an F-22 back during WW1, no doubt its completion would be at an earlier date than our current timeline.  It just might take 30-40 years for them to do.

But we are talking about the GTVA here.  So, let's see what they need to first replicate a LRed:

knowledge of the beam:  wavelengths/frequencies to produce beam.  Energy requirements & heat loss/efficiencies.  Easy enough to study if you have a captured LRed-firing ship.

sufficiently powerful energy source:  Shivans have high energy crystals (for example the stuff in those Shivan comm nodes, cause massive explosion on destruction).  Fair to assume these can be used to power those beams (or capture Shivan reactors and take those apart), so the GTVA just needs to figure out how to produce their own (by analyzing atomic & molecular structures, behaviours under various conditions) or salvage Shivan debris/steal their cargo.

Strong heatsinks:  This is fairly straight-forward, all Shivan beams are projected from red/black beam tips, the materials of which are easy to acquire from Shivan debris/wreckage.  Again, analyze material composition and replicate (difficulty will vary depending on how complex the molecular compound is, rarity of material doesn't seem likely if the Shivans could have armadas of that size).

Do feel free to point out any weaknesses in my thinking, I need the exercise before I start university again this September  :)

 

Offline AlphaOne

  • !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 210
Actuali you are right! Also I belive that the GTVA managed to already overcome at least in part some of those dificulties! This is deduced from the fact they managde to reequip a shivan mara class fighter and improve it realatively fast! And this was done in a top secret instalation mind you!

With dedicated support from the GTVA on a large scale the GTVA would be able to replicate shivan tech realtively fast! Remember they already did so when they developed beams! The difference is they were kinda workind with rude scans as oposed to a real live working beam reactor etc. Which are far more elocvent when it comes to revleaing where you went wrong!
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

(\_/)
(O.o)
(> < ) 

This is Bunny . Copy  Bunny  into your signature to help him on his way to world domination!

 

Offline Mobius

  • Back where he started
  • 213
  • Porto l'azzurro Dolce Stil Novo nella fantascienza
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • The Lightblue Ribbon | Cultural Project
But they needed time to equip that Mara well. And do we know something about the cost of that operation? It might have been high. So, yes, the GTVA can do certain things...but it can't actually make the results of any kind of important research available to everyone. Is the Kayser the results of studies on Shivan technology? It's use is limited to the very best GTVA pilots.
The Lightblue Ribbon

Inferno: Nostos - Alliance
Series Resurrecta: {{FS Wiki Portal}} -  Gehenna's Gate - The Spirit of Ptah - Serendipity (WIP) - <REDACTED> (WIP)
FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project
A tribute to FreeSpace in my book: Riflessioni dall'Infinito

 
But they needed time to equip that Mara well. And do we know something about the cost of that operation? It might have been high. So, yes, the GTVA can do certain things...but it can't actually make the results of any kind of important research available to everyone. Is the Kayser the results of studies on Shivan technology? It's use is limited to the very best GTVA pilots.

Yes, the Kayser is the result of research into Shivan weapon technology.  It states so either in the tech database or during the command briefing where you are given official access to it, I can't remember which.

Remember the GTVA (well GTA and PVN) stole shielding tech + sensors off the Shivans, and they were able to mass produce it in relatively short order.  Beam technology and subspace tech should also be replicable, at most within a few decades, as long as they have access to undamaged, fully functional specimens (I'm sure SOC has captured loads of Shivan cargo since their nebular campaign, some may be beam systems/reactors from those giant containers that the SFr Dis hauls).

 

Offline Mobius

  • Back where he started
  • 213
  • Porto l'azzurro Dolce Stil Novo nella fantascienza
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • The Lightblue Ribbon | Cultural Project
The Dis carries low-value stuff. Supplies, I suppose. It can't be loaded with reactors and/or beam components.

Though the shield technology became accessible to everyone, weapon systems like the Kayser are still limited in production and diffusion.
The Lightblue Ribbon

Inferno: Nostos - Alliance
Series Resurrecta: {{FS Wiki Portal}} -  Gehenna's Gate - The Spirit of Ptah - Serendipity (WIP) - <REDACTED> (WIP)
FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project
A tribute to FreeSpace in my book: Riflessioni dall'Infinito

  

Offline Ghostavo

  • 210
  • Let it be glue!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
But they needed time to equip that Mara well. And do we know something about the cost of that operation? It might have been high. So, yes, the GTVA can do certain things...but it can't actually make the results of any kind of important research available to everyone. Is the Kayser the results of studies on Shivan technology? It's use is limited to the very best GTVA pilots.

Yes, the Kayser is the result of research into Shivan weapon technology.  It states so either in the tech database or during the command briefing where you are given official access to it, I can't remember which.

Remember the GTVA (well GTA and PVN) stole shielding tech + sensors off the Shivans, and they were able to mass produce it in relatively short order.  Beam technology and subspace tech should also be replicable, at most within a few decades, as long as they have access to undamaged, fully functional specimens (I'm sure SOC has captured loads of Shivan cargo since their nebular campaign, some may be beam systems/reactors from those giant containers that the SFr Dis hauls).

IIRC, the GTA already had research done on shielding before the Shivans appeared. Regarding sensors, it was basically a way to detect Shivan ships, nothing more.
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline Mobius

  • Back where he started
  • 213
  • Porto l'azzurro Dolce Stil Novo nella fantascienza
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • The Lightblue Ribbon | Cultural Project
IIRC, the GTA already had research done on shielding before the Shivans appeared. Regarding sensors, it was basically a way to detect Shivan ships, nothing more.

Where did you get that info from? :wtf:
The Lightblue Ribbon

Inferno: Nostos - Alliance
Series Resurrecta: {{FS Wiki Portal}} -  Gehenna's Gate - The Spirit of Ptah - Serendipity (WIP) - <REDACTED> (WIP)
FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project
A tribute to FreeSpace in my book: Riflessioni dall'Infinito

 

Offline Hippo

  • Darth water-horse
  • 211
  • Grazing.
    • All Hands to War
its in the Fashion in fs1 iirc
VBB Survivor -- 387 Posts -- July 3 2001 - April 12 2002
VWBB Survivor -- 100 Posts -- July 10 2002 - July 10 2004

AHTW

 

Offline Frosty

  • 24
If I remember correctly the only way that the Mara was modified was that it was changed to support human pilots and carry human weaponry. 

The GTVA doesn't always improve on shivan tech just look at shivan anti cap beams for proof.  From flying the Mara we can clearly see that shivan fighters are still plenty leaps and bound better than human fighters.