Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 530340 times)

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
@Akalabeth Angel
Out of curiosity, why do you think it distracts/detracts from the story?
I thought it made it more interesting.

Because a bunch of geeky gamer guys writing about a lesbian romance is not something that I can take seriously. I rate it just above anime or sonic fans drawing their favourite characters in questionable situations. 

If you look at a show like the L-Word, a now long-running series about lesbians in relationships it's created and written primarily by women, there's a reason for that. People write about what they know.

Most (or all) guys don't understand women, and I suspect they understand lesbians relationships even less. Because in most media, like everything out of hollywood, lesbian is equated to simply hot girls kissing but I suspect that's for the most part inaccurate and in more ways than one.

That being said, I appreciate the effort on the part of the team, trying to characterize a romance between any characters is not exactly easy (just ask George Lucas). And what I've read so far has been fairly mature/respectful in it's execution. But it simply turns me off.

Or I could be wrong and maybe there's some mystery gamer woman on the team doing most of the writing but I suspect that's not the case.

(PS - I'm a geeky gamer guy too in case that wasn't clear)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
@Akalabeth Angel
Out of curiosity, why do you think it distracts/detracts from the story?
I thought it made it more interesting.

Because a bunch of geeky gamer guys writing about a lesbian romance is not something that I can take seriously. I rate it just above anime or sonic fans drawing their favourite characters in questionable situations.  

A great deal of the Simms-Laporte stuff was written by a not-entirely-straight woman. Rian's on the BP team.

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
@Akalabeth Angel
Out of curiosity, why do you think it distracts/detracts from the story?
I thought it made it more interesting.

Because a bunch of geeky gamer guys writing about a lesbian romance is not something that I can take seriously. I rate it just above anime or sonic fans drawing their favourite characters in questionable situations.  

A great deal of the Simms-Laporte stuff was written by a not-entirely-straight woman. Rian's on the BP team.

Oh are there actually women on the team? I checked the release page but there weren't any credits. With that in mind I might be able to take the relationship a bit more seriously.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
@Akalabeth Angel
Out of curiosity, why do you think it distracts/detracts from the story?
I thought it made it more interesting.

Because a bunch of geeky gamer guys writing about a lesbian romance is not something that I can take seriously. I rate it just above anime or sonic fans drawing their favourite characters in questionable situations.  

A great deal of the Simms-Laporte stuff was written by a not-entirely-straight woman. Rian's on the BP team.

Oh are there actually women on the team? I checked the release page but there weren't any credits. With that in mind I might be able to take the relationship a bit more seriously.

Credits are located in-game in the techroom's 'credits' tab. And I think The_E just pinned a thread in the forum as well for ease of access.

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Oh are there actually women on the team? I checked the release page but there weren't any credits. With that in mind I might be able to take the relationship a bit more seriously.

Credits are located in-game in the techroom's 'credits' tab. And I think The_E just pinned a thread in the forum as well for ease of access.

Okay. You're going to hate me for saying so but I haven't even been in the techroom yet :D

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Oh are there actually women on the team? I checked the release page but there weren't any credits. With that in mind I might be able to take the relationship a bit more seriously.

Credits are located in-game in the techroom's 'credits' tab. And I think The_E just pinned a thread in the forum as well for ease of access.

Okay. You're going to hate me for saying so but I haven't even been in the techroom yet :D

It's all good. The story should always come first; the techroom exists to provide non-critical story info and to answer any lingering questions the player may have.

 

Offline Fury

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Oh are there actually women on the team? I checked the release page but there weren't any credits. With that in mind I might be able to take the relationship a bit more seriously.
Eh? So whoever writes or contributes to the writing has more meaning to you than the writing itself? I believe you should be able to judge what you see and hear regardless of who has written it.

not-entirely-straight
Are you sure you should be divulging such personal details on an internet forum, or anywhere for that matter? I don't know about her, but I wouldn't be pleased.

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I think, by now, Battuta might have some clue as to what is and is not okay with Rian... at least I hope so.
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Offline -Sara-

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
not-entirely-straight
Are you sure you should be divulging such personal details on an internet forum, or anywhere for that matter? I don't know about her, but I wouldn't be pleased.

Agreed, that's rather personal stuff. Even if she openly flaunts her sexual preference, even then it's up to her, unless you know her that well that she's fine with that.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well, we live together, so if she's fine with it that's cool and if not I'll hear about it pretty soon.  :nervous:

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Oh are there actually women on the team? I checked the release page but there weren't any credits. With that in mind I might be able to take the relationship a bit more seriously.
Eh? So whoever writes or contributes to the writing has more meaning to you than the writing itself? I believe you should be able to judge what you see and hear regardless of who has written it.

As I said in my original post, I had found the writing fairly mature and respectful up to the point I was in the story. It's not the writing that puts me off, it's the concept in general. Games are not known for realistic, developed female characters (or male characters for that matter). And both games and movies throw in hot babes or lesbians just for the sake of shock/controversy or a cheap gimmick to appeal to guys. So when a team that was incorrectly presumed to be all male writes a lesbian romance the concept can come across as pretty contrived. But having a woman writer, write a woman's role, brings more legitimacy to the work especially in the medium of games, where as I said women tend to be very dumbed down and one-dimensional characters.

Not only that, but I work in television, albeit not as a writer. Still it's pretty easy to see where stories are going and to recognize when stories fall into formula or throw gimmicks in for no particular reason. If a person approaches a story and a concept is introduced that they create pre-conceptions about, those pre-conceptions can colour the remainder of that thread of the story. And in a case like this, if those pre-conceptions are dispelled, it can allow the viewer (ie me) to have a more open mind about the purpose of that thread.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 02:51:18 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well, we live together, so if she's fine with it that's cool and if not I'll hear about it pretty soon.  :nervous:

It's okay, if Ally is anything to go by Rian won't kill you.

...much.
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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well, remember, there's no use pretending there aren't a lot of chain-of-command romances IRL. How things are supposed to work in the regs is one thing, reality is quite another.
That's perfectly true, but flirting with a superior officer/Squadron OC is something I personally find to be quite awkward. Probably because my perception of the Squadron OC is tarnished by my earlier experiences. :P
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Offline Liberator

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well, remember, there's no use pretending there aren't a lot of chain-of-command romances IRL. How things are supposed to work in the regs is one thing, reality is quite another.
I think you are overestimating on this.  It's off topic, but the various militaries spend YEARS training and conditioning they're personnel on this stuff.  While I have no hard numbers, I would suspect that romances between officers are probably less than 1/2 of 1% of the entire corps and enlisted is probably more but not much more.

Anyway, back on topic, I am really looking forward to see how the hippie old guys, the psychotic bisexual and Mossad knockoffs are gonna solve the issue and tribulations put forth in the installment!
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Mossad is probably a bit better than the Feyadeen. Or at least blessed with less competent enemies.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well, remember, there's no use pretending there aren't a lot of chain-of-command romances IRL. How things are supposed to work in the regs is one thing, reality is quite another.
I think you are overestimating on this.  It's off topic, but the various militaries spend YEARS training and conditioning they're personnel on this stuff.  While I have no hard numbers, I would suspect that romances between officers are probably less than 1/2 of 1% of the entire corps and enlisted is probably more but not much more.

Oh, I'm well aware it's not exactly common, but even in our good old US of A's military all that training and conditioning doesn't always take, especially in high-stress situations. I spent a while reading Iraq memoirs, particularly those of female soldiers, and there was a lot of coupling and a fair number of pregnancies. (The Abu Ghraib crew had a chain-of-command liason going on). The female soldiers' memoirs went so far as to comment, a bit acerbically, that there were two types of military women: *****es and whores, and that you were rapidly going to get sorted into one category or the other.

And on a narrative level, the number of flight officers who simultaneously survive a large number of combat sorties and do so with distinction and large kill tallies is also very small, probably less than 1/2 of 1% of the corps.  :p Main characters are interesting people!

(Bear in mind though that Simms and Laporte are actually pretty careful not to slip up in this respect; Simms goes so far as to transfer Laporte off her ship when she feels it's a threat to her command.)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 09:54:42 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Pr011

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I met my soon-to-be wife in the Navy.

I would say that there is probably just as many personal relationships in the Forces as there is any occupation, but it happens a lot more then the powers that be would like people to think. Although I have no hard figures, it is certainly higher than 0.5%.

If you look at some of the younger recruits, some even at the age of 17 or 18, and throw in the inevitable rapid consumption of alcohol during runs ashore, it's amazing there isn't more pregnancy or inappropriate relationships then there already is. Factor in the stress of a long deployment and/or danger of an operational tour too, where sight of the future narrows to just getting through to tomorrow. There is extensive sexual education in place and in some places, free contraception available.

People are people. The Forces and relevant rules recognise that. The issue arises when such behaviour affects safety and operational effectiveness, hence such rules as splitting partners up into different units to prevent a situation of favouritism or a loss of perspective during an emergency.

Hence the reason why I felt that Simms moving Laporte to another ship was quite a realistic event.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 12:05:43 am by Pr011 »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I met my soon-to-be wife in the Navy.

I would say that there is probably just as many personal relationships in the Forces as there is any occupation, but it happens a lot more then the powers that be would like people to think. Although I have no hard figures, it is certainly higher than 0.5%.

If you look at some of the younger recruits, some even at the age of 17 or 18, and throw in the inevitable rapid consumption of alcohol during runs ashore, it's amazing there isn't more pregnancy or inappropriate relationships then there already is. Factor in the stress of a long deployment and/or danger of an operational tour too, where sight of the future narrows to just getting through to tomorrow. There is extensive sexual education in place and in some places, free contraception available.

People are people. The Forces and relevant rules recognise that. The issue arises when such behaviour affects safety and operational effectiveness, hence such rules as splitting partners up into different units to prevent a situation of favouritism or a loss of perspective during an emergency.

Hence the reason why I felt that Simms moving Laporte to another ship was quite a realistic event.

Nothing quite like hands-on experience. Thank you.

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I don't think it's the fact that inter-unit liasons occur so much as it is the fact that it's the main character's direct superior. 

Related:  Are all inter-unit relationships of that nature barred, or is it only direct chain of command?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I don't think it's the fact that inter-unit liasons occur so much as it is the fact that it's the main character's direct superior. 

But there was no liason. In fact there was an explicit order to the contrary.