Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 669122 times)

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
We'd like to improve weapon variety in R2; we cut several weapons from R2 that in retrospect maybe should have stayed there. But other points were simply consequences of our design decisions and are, as the saying goes, intended behavior.

I'm not saying that's wrong, but I am saying that your statement about "not differences from FS2 retail" are wrong.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
We'd like to improve weapon variety in R2; we cut several weapons from R2 that in retrospect maybe should have stayed there. But other points were simply consequences of our design decisions and are, as the saying goes, intended behavior.

I'm not saying that's wrong, but I am saying that your statement about "not differences from FS2 retail" are wrong.

Depending on the parsing you intend there, I don't recall making such a statement.

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
We'd like to improve weapon variety in R2; we cut several weapons from R2 that in retrospect maybe should have stayed there. But other points were simply consequences of our design decisions and are, as the saying goes, intended behavior.

I'm not saying that's wrong, but I am saying that your statement about "not differences from FS2 retail" are wrong.

Depending on the parsing you intend there, I don't recall making such a statement.

Aye, NGTM, he said that Spoon's comparisons were based more on his own mod than FS2, not entirely. Though I've no idea how true that is and will not get involved in this one beyond this scant contribution.

I finished the campaign, people have spoken more eloquently than I about it's pros and cons, though for me, really, I didn't really have any cons (Beyond Fed protagonists. Boo! Hiss! etc), my computer handled the detail excellently and the campaign was sheer poetry.

Loved it.

Also, 'The Blade Itself'  :yes: - Moar please.

Throw my voice behind "I want part 2 naow!"
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Heh, did a second playthrough. :)

Spoiler:

Who thought of Mr. Cuddles? I didn't DIVE, DIVE, DIVE fast enough xD







 

Offline thorbin

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Spoiler:
What is the significance in the term 'Nagari' and where does it come from in real life? The only reference I found was it being a name for one of the written languages used in India.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Spoiler:
What is the significance in the term 'Nagari' and where does it come from in real life? The only reference I found was it being a name for one of the written languages used in India.
Spoiler:
Go to the tech room, select "Intelligence" and read the entry titled "Project Nagari". Essentially it's a naturally occurring phenomenon that allows certain individuals to communicate with Shivans (and Vishnans). ETAK artificially replicated this.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Certainly I admit, the player selectable weapons felt underwhelming to the stuff I grew used to in my own mod (Which has some rather over the top missiles and a wide set of primaries). Compared with retail FS2 the weapons in WiH do pretty well. (And no, please do not take this as a 'I think my mod is better then yours!' kinda thing (because its not intended as such). I only replied to this because Bats brought it up.)

Quote from: NGTM-1R
You know, I'm surprised to hear this, because it's rather contradictory to what I thought about the first version. Combat in WiH version one was simple, clean, goal-oriented, classic FS. The player always had a purpose and it was clearly defined with pretty much one exception that was almost unnoticed because it was an in-mission cutscene. However they'd clearly worked on having things make sense from a strategy standpoint. (Well, sort of. I think the UEF was getting their ass kicked because they didn't really understand and that view seemed to surprise a few people.)

Of course I also believe that UEF flak at that stage was a lot less impressive. And it was pre-Fury AI, which from what you've said may have contributed to damaging your view by making the capitals much more impressive.
(First version?  :confused:)
Well what I was trying to say was, Capships have such impressive Anti fighter screens. That lone enemy fighters don't mean a thing if you are escorting a capship.
True, most WiH missions had rather clear directives and most of the time I didn't had any problems understanding what was expected of me. When I wrote that bit, one mission was kinda stuck in my mind. In which I really had a moment of looking at big ships doing their things and events unfolding beyond my influence with a friendly capship spewing flak and a few scattered enemy fighters going about. I had a moment of "Why bother with the small fry?" back then. Because capships can handle themselves quite well in WiH. (In Retail, fighters can be quite dangerous because capships have such pathetic AA)
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline The E

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
NGTM-1R was part of the first Beta. The campaign underwent a rather massive change after that one (Or so the people who played both versions tell me; I was brought on the team only after it had concluded).
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
You screwed with my head so much in this campaign. Well done :)

I say this is BETTER than AoA. I think this comes from the depth of a human war compared to a human v Shivan war. This was a fresh experience, the faction we play is significantly different than what we are used to. It was immensely fun to play, I liked all the characters and the community spirit among the squadmates. The FREDing was impeccable, the visual and aural scape as professional as you can get from a project like this.

I don't particularly like this GTVA, though. They definitely aren't the same GTVA as in FS2, they use too many 'dirty tricks' and attack civilians. And I don't feel like I understand the ultimate aim of the UEF in this war.
Spoiler:
They think the destruction of the Carthage will immediately turn public opinion in the GTVA against the war? Sounds pretty delusional.
Oh and please please please
Spoiler:
continue the romantic subplot! :nod:

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Certainly I admit, the player selectable weapons felt underwhelming to the stuff I grew used to in my own mod (Which has some rather over the top missiles and a wide set of primaries). Compared with retail FS2 the weapons in WiH do pretty well. (And no, please do not take this as a 'I think my mod is better then yours!' kinda thing (because its not intended as such). I only replied to this because Bats brought it up.)

Actually I think your mod is way better than WiH in that respect, and I will heap praise on Dawn for its creative and awesome gameplay elements.

We definitely want to open up the sandbox in R2, I think. I have a few non-standard elements in mind that I've talked with you about on IRC.

Quote
I had a moment of "Why bother with the small fry?" back then. Because capships can handle themselves quite well in WiH. (In Retail, fighters can be quite dangerous because capships have such pathetic AA)

Go play the m07 opening, or the 2v4 dogfight in The Intervention. Now consider that the AI levels on those fighters...aren't actually extraordinarily high.

Now think about some of those big battle missions with whole squadrons of fighters using that AI, and imagine what they'd be like without the Karunas to serve as a base of fire! Our whole concept with the Karuna was to expand the interaction between players and warships by creating a 'warship buddy' for fighter pilots that they could use as anti-Trebuchet cover and a place to run to when they were in trouble. (The fluff makes it specific that UEF fighter pilots are drilled heavily on working closely with their frigates, whereas the GTVA pilot corps has a problem with being trained to stand well clear due to the problem of beam friendly fire.)

So yes, Karunas eat fighters alive; but if they didn't you'd have a whole different kind of gameplay problem. It's not perfect, but it was the direction we chose to experiment in, and stuff like the opening dogfight in Aristeia attests to the fighters still being a fairly real threat.

Thus the excellent flak screen.

Also one of our design goals was to reduce the Alpha 1 Effect. Which I will admit does not always produce player-centric, agentic gameplay, which is a problem we worried about a lot during development.

I don't particularly like this GTVA, though. They definitely aren't the same GTVA as in FS2, they use too many 'dirty tricks' and attack civilians.

Well...consider that they feel they're fighting for the survival of all humanity. You can read up on their motivations on the techroom, but basically they believe that Ubuntu and the Federation that supports it are dangerous, delusional ideologies that will render mankind defenseless.

Thus the decision to adopt a total war stance against the Federation. (They're also a bit more desperate than the FS2 GTVA, coming off an 18-year depression that they survived only because of the unifying power of the dream of a return to Earth.)

You'll note they only attack civilians as collateral damage in the pursuit of war-critical targets, too.

Quote
And I don't feel like I understand the ultimate aim of the UEF in this war.
Spoiler:
They think the destruction of the Carthage will immediately turn public opinion in the GTVA against the war? Sounds pretty delusional.

Spoiler:
You can certainly accuse the 2nd and 3rd Fleet elements of the UEF Navy of optimism in that regard. More likely their aim was to get Admiral Steele relieved of command and yet another admiral shuttled in to get better results - the failure of Steele's risky tactics would have undercut his political backing. Think of the relief of the initial US commander in Iraq, or the Union generals in the US Civil War.

Also bear in mind that that plan didn't come from the Elders, it came from Netreba and Byrne.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2010, 09:00:24 pm by General Battuta »

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I troll mostly on these forums... but this release begs a post.

Simply put, Blue Planet was awesome on its own. I've played it probably more times than I've played retail FS2 now. In fact, its hard to play retail FS2 (even with the media vps) because blue planet is so much better.

I had high hopes for War in Heaven (simply because I knew it was going to be awesome from the get go) I was completely unprepared for what I just recently played through in more or less one sitting. I pay $50-60 for great games with great stories, that have development teams and costs something about 100 mil or more to make. (completely made up stat). War in Heaven is free. I would pay $50-60 for War in Heaven because it is that good. Heck, that doesn't even begin to describe it. War in Heaven defies any adjective I can attribute to compliment it. Story is wonderful, the ships are gorgeous, the fredding is near perfect, the missions themselves are exciting.

I was swept up in the tide of emotion. Fear, anger, understanding, calm, grief. Not many games can make that claim, few manage to do it so eloquently. Sufficient to say, War in Heaven is the best FS2 mod I have ever played. The team has outdone itself, seriously outdone itself. You guys have done what professional teams struggle to do. I'm still awe-struck by War in Heaven, and probably will still be for some time.

Fantastic work (understatement of the century)... but its really the only way to wrap up this post.


 

Offline Infamus

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Gameplay: 10
Graphics: 11
Use of extras: 10
weapons: 9 needs moar balance ie the Rapier used almost no energy for a heavy gun and the gattler needs a realistic gun sound (try the descent 2 Gauss sound)
Ships: 8 the fed ships were too far more powerful than the tevs'
Music: 9
Feeling: 10 \
Story: 10    /  This is the phucking Twilight Zone.


but this story REALLY needs some フリクリ
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 12:45:01 pm by Infamus »

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I... uh... what did I just read  :wtf:
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 

Offline Infamus

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I... uh... what did I just read  :wtf:

what i think, if you don't like how i think TOO BAD if you don't like what i think then SAY SOMETHING.

 

Offline General Battuta

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First of all, why do i get the impression that some of the crew are lesbians and that the Feds are 75% girls.

The cast of characters in the campaign is heavily skewed male.

Quote
WTF. second, whats up with the quantum 'sensitives' bit? quantum beings are nothing special, just get me a Sovereign with some quantum torps man, tear that **** up (Preemptive strike: don't give me that crap:'this isn't startrek, TREKIE' you've already fubar'd that with the 'alternate realities' bit). Sensitives? are you kiding me? OMG BREAK OUT THE TIN FOIL.

The Nagari Process is based on the FS1 intro.

Quote
but this time the Red Hand is actually the evil shivans military because they have grown so large in force and the shivans who remember the good ol' days are just holding the fort around Capella so the R-Hand doesn't get back in.

What?

Quote
wow, everyone dies and we have some fracking dues ex machina pop out of ****ING NOWHERE, really?

Wait are we playing the same...campaign?

Quote
oh and what about all of the good people of the GTVA?

The GTVA are the good guys. The UEF are the good guys. There are no bad guys. The GTVA is fighting for its values.

Quote
good ol' pilots Like DUCKTAPE (if you don't who i am talking about then you aren't a freespacer, LURK MOAR).

Mackie is from Derelict which is not canon to BP (though sort of alluded to), but Mackie's voice actor actually voices a UEF pilot.

Quote
The GTVA was build from the ground up, to stop the violence, the GTA was built so that if they DID encounter life they could handle the situation under a single entity and not have a bunch of different beliefs that would jeopardize interstellar relations. and who in the ****ing 'verse has the in-humanity to soil their home planet with their own kind who where strangled like animals.

The reason for the GTVA invasion is described at great length in the techroom. We flatter ourselves to think it's pretty convincing.

Quote
to sum it up: HOLLYWOOD. dude next time. lay off the cinema and sit with pencil and paper and DO IT YOURSELF and if you think you are doing well, DO IT AGAIN, Murphy's laws never fail.

I don't understand but whatever you're on I want some!

Quote
shouldn't a depression make them more grateful? the Great depression post WWI was worse and lasted longer. plus with more plants, why the **** did no one try to find more? seriously? they didn't lurk moar? wtf? what happened to the wild west spirit of taking up the most one could gather and taking a trip through the stars? (you have died of dysentery). what happens to that? I guess you don't live in America. or know anything about the old west. or there is no such thing as history class anymore.

Are they mushrooms? I never had much luck with mushrooms.  :(

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I... uh... what did I just read  :wtf:

what i think, if you don't like how i think TOO BAD if you don't like what i think then SAY SOMETHING.

No, that wasn't what I was getting at. It was more to do with the haphazard way you set out your opinion. Sure, say something, but goddamn, make sure other people can understand you easily.

Or, like Battuta jokingly implied, we'll think illegal herbage is involved :p
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 

Offline Snail

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Isn't the "Red Hand" from Tides of Darkness?

 

Offline Infamus

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
@General Battuta

with the dues ex, i was NOT referencing to the silly campaign

thank you for clearing that up with the cast being girls bit.

on the last quote : "Cool story bro"

 

Offline Infamus

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Isn't the "Red Hand" from Tides of Darkness?

yes it is dude i just said that
i prefer the Tides of Darkness take on the shivans. but this time the Red Hand is actually the evil shivans military because they have grown so large in force and the shivans who remember the good ol' days are just holding the fort around Capella so the R-Hand doesn't get back in.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
So uh what does it have to do with War in Heaven?