[Scotty]

Okay guys, due to the nature of the topic, I'm gonna say put a blanket spoiler screen on just about anything you post.

Spoiler:

First up: The cargos on the Psych eval mission.  If you bothered to stay long enough to read them all, you'll know there's an interesting bit of info there, no matter how you slice it.  However, when you scan everything, it makes it look like AT LEAST two conversations going, the names, and the cargos.  The names are talking seemingly to Noemi, giving her a set of instructions, or at least preparing her for some trouble down the road.  The cargos reinforce that in a slightly different tone.  However, I noticed that about halfway through the cargo name sequence, it abruptly stops talking to Noemi, and starts talking to a third party.  My guess, third party is the shivans.  "Brothers, brothers!  Paramatma!  Why are you so cold?"  That line is in AoA too, if you look for it (Shivan cargo depot, middle of nowhere, player flying Vishnan craft).  I think that the Vishnans, in the middle of their conversation with Noemi let it slip (deliberately, mind you) that they were speaking to the Shivans as well.  I'm not sure exactly what that would accomplish, but it's something.

Alternately, the break in conversation tone could be the SHIVANS speaking to Noemi, but I think that's less likely than the above.

Now, the comm node.  It's transmitting into the void, and I have it from a very reliable source that that's significant.  My take: It's an internal metaphor for Noemi's Nagari potential.  I have the feeling that sometime next release, Noemi is going to realize that, and I wouldn't be surprised if she manages to somehow shut it down when she needs to.  That said, I have the sinking feeling that Noemi is going to be somehow responsible for bringing the Shivans down on Earth.  Again.  The title of the campaign is War in Heaven (durr).  That phrase also appears in the cargo yard, so I think it refers to the conflict between Shivans and Vishnans and centers around the 'plan' they refer to.  Since that is, in fact, the title, I predict the Shivans and/or Vishnans will at least make an appearance in part 2, even if only at the end.

Not a lot of fanspec between that and Delenda Est, aside from some stuff I thought of while playing but can't remember now.  But, in Sunglare, the final cutscene, when the Masayaf jumps in, some struck.  The Masayaf picked them up out of the stellar void.  Sunward, no less.  Did anyone bother to wonder how?  They ask for Noemi Laporte by name.  My theory is that Laporte's Nagari sensitivity was like a beacon for others, and that that's why the Fedayeen is separate from fleet.  They hunt based on Nagari sensitivity, a telepathy of sorts, and used that to find the Indus before the sun took it.  I can't help but wonder if the exchange between Bei and his father at the end was done by comms, or by Nagari communication itself...

Well, that's my load of fanspec.  Feel free to add/comment, BUT REMEMBER SPOILERS!

[carbine7]

Spoiler:

One thout that I have had is that Noemi is kinda like the ying to Bei's yang. She seems to be a much darker person than Bei is, and I have to agree that she might be involved with the Shivans somehow. After all, Bei acted as the Vishnan's agent, so I feel Noemi might end up serving the same role for ths Shivans through some cruel twist of fate. That leads me to believe that "Ken" might be some attempt by the Shivans to communicate/manipulate Noemi into helping them achieve their goal of protecting smaller races through destroying more powerful ones. This makes sense because in the Ancient cutscenes from FS1, it was implied that the Shivans wanted to keep races confined to their home systems, where they belonged. Since Sol is effectively cut off from the rest of the universe without the Sol-Delta Serpentis Jumpgate, it makes sense that they want Noemi to destroy the GTVA presence.

[Ravenholme]

Spoiler:

One thout that I have had is that Noemi is kinda like the ying to Bei's yang. She seems to be a much darker person than Bei is, and I have to agree that she might be involved with the Shivans somehow. After all, Bei acted as the Vishnan's agent, so I feel Noemi might end up serving the same role for ths Shivans through some cruel twist of fate. That leads me to believe that "Ken" might be some attempt by the Shivans to communicate/manipulate Noemi into helping them achieve their goal of protecting smaller races through destroying more powerful ones. This makes sense because in the Ancient cutscenes from FS1, it was implied that the Shivans wanted to keep races confined to their home systems, where they belonged. Since Sol is effectively cut off from the rest of the universe without the Sol-Delta Serpentis Jumpgate, it makes sense that they want Noemi to destroy the GTVA presence.

Scotty, I just wanted to say that I agree with all of your points, except that I'm not sure about the Maysaf.

Carbine7, I really think you're onto something

Spoiler:

Especially because 'Ken' tells her that sometimes we have to destroy to preserve, which is the domain of the Shivans in the Vishnan-Shivan relationship, and then forces her to take up that mantle when she destroys the ant hill and kills the ants.

[-Sara-]

Trying to deduct this with some logic, suspicion and trying to get my head into the story:

Spoiler:

Noemi's role

I see Noemi as the counterbalance for Bei. Not the Vishans, but the Shivans speak to Noemi. The blueprint she received is probably a perfected version of ETAK. She can learn to talk with the destroyers, the late elder probably wanted to warn Noemi to not listen to the dark gospel and morbid ballads of they who are the Shivans. If Noemi is a great destroyer, (Sam) Bei is possibly a preserver (taken literally with the Sanctuary 'preserving survivors' from the other universe) who may lead remaining humans to a future.

Also the Shivans spoke of this being their second try I think, so I assume that their first try was perhaps Bosch who similar to Noemi may have been told to destroye the GTVA. It often takes a bastard or ***** to make hard choices, so that those whoever remains can build a better world from the ashes. Alternately they meant the ancients.

A garden overgrown with weed can look beautiful to the eyes of the beholder, but it can never flourish until you cut down the weed. Often the weed is entangled with the plants you adore and it requires cutting both the plants and weed down to have the garden flourish forever without the weed ever coming back.

Spoiler:

Anita Lopez

Anita loves her crew and seems to be a bit of a Ng'mei: she's a mother hen and her people follow her blindly into life; into death. Steele probably shook her awake when she took his order to engage the enemy risking most of her crew and Anita may seriously doubt if she's on the right side or not now. I got a gut feeling that Anita may swap sides later on, but I might be wrong. Her crew'd follow her blindly I'm sure.

Spoiler:

The Informant

I'm pretty sure the informant is (former) Admiral Thea Carey from the GTD Temeraire. What role she plays from now on I do not know, perhaps someone will help her escape confinement: perhaps Lopez or someone sent by Lopez. I'm not sure if the Temeraire would follow her example. Alternately she may die as example, though that'd be an anti-climax. A third option is re-education or brainwashing, something which'd be sad and I think would not do the Carey character justice (but it is an ironic faith).

Spoiler:

Lorna Simms

I slightly suspect Simms to have died in Noemi's arms. Noemi admitted loving Lorna, which can mean anything: in a harsh period love isn't always about butterflies and crawling under the blankets, it can be comfort with having someone to support on. Lorna realized she was not alone right there and then and I think she gave up living the moment she said she'd train new pilots on the Indus again: it sounds like she'd live an empty life waiting for death. If Lorna indeed did die then for once she wasn't the one to have someone die in her arms but instead died in someone else their arms, in Noemi's knowing she was with the person she could and did love. Dying (especially that way) was very merciful for the woman with a deathwish. We'll see if she made it through.

Spoiler:

The faith of the Indus and the Feyadeen

The faith of the Indus is questionable and depends on the Feyadeen. If they want to utilize Noemi's anger, they'd probably blow it up or let it drop into the sun after retrieving Noemi. "Come to the darkside" so to say, feed the little destroyer her anger. Alternately they may just want to sanitize the ship. It's probably beyond repair even if recovered, most crew may be beyond help and the Feyadeen can stay secret for a reason. If the Feyadeen intend to keep Noemi from falling, they may try to salvage the ship and to safe Simms' life, or alternately lie about Simms being alright even if the latter might not be true.

The Feyadeen's intentions and the faith of the Indus is least clear to me, which is a good sign, it means the Feyadeen and their intentions are as mysterious as they are supposed to be! They can be saints, or for all we know a second Hammer of Light. Exciting!

Spoiler:

The secret project

I'm guessing that the secret project which needs so many logistical support may be a final exodus to find humankind's destiny. After all if humankind is the great builder, restorer or whatever, their faith lies with the entire galaxy or universe! Not just within the Sol system or even GTVA held territory. They're packing their backs perhaps. It's the only thing I can come up with. The vasudans may be the great chroniclers, remaining the philosophers to write about this ascension, much like they once tried with the ancients (who seemingly didn't quite make the cut).

Spoiler:

Faith of the GTC Duke and other vessels

Here I assume three options:

1) Reverse engineering: The Federation may finally build their own version of beam weaponry.
2) Infiltration: Slap a new ID and security codes on her, and you can just perhaps quietly sail into GTVA space to either do damage or to retrieve someone (maybe Thea Carey?) or something. I can somehow see Al'fadil being talked into reason by Bei. Or maybe not.
3) Escorting and/or masquerading: They may simply form an escort for the logistical vessels. Maybe they did something funky to their beams or wish to masquerade as the escorts of a logistical vessel they might try to replace. Imagine being able to sabotage or even hijack a unaware destroyer which docks with the logistical vessel. It wouldn't hurt to have a Titan or even Hecate in the fleet. Hijacking seems unlikely though, it doesn't fully fit in the flow of the federation's actions.

My speculations thus far.

[Snail]

Spoiler:

I think the informant may have started out as Thea, but the GTVA later used the alleged source within the GTVA to help lure the UEF into their trap.

[-Sara-]

Spoiler:

I think the informant may have started out as Thea, but the GTVA later used the alleged source within the GTVA to help lure the UEF into their trap.

Spoiler:

Through interrogation or blackmail towards Thea perhaps.

[Snail]

Spoiler:

The source probably remained anonymous from the start - Steele could have easily fed the Wargods information by simply masquerading as the informant.

[Ravenholme]

Spoiler:

The source probably remained anonymous from the start - Steele could have easily fed the Wargods information by simply masquerading as the informant.

Pretty sure that is what happened, GTVI pretended to be the anonymous informant after she got busted.

Pretty sure she got busted when she leaked the Agincourt schedule, going by the "Conversations from War in Heaven"

[Dr. Pwnguin]

Spoiler:

There's information on the info packet that Noemi received in the tech room after you finish that mission.

Personally, I'm still wondering why the UEF hasn't gone for the war-ship capturing approach. They need beams and ships; they should have sent marines to capture the two corvettes in the mission before the final battle with the Carthage.

[Fury]

To capture a full fledged warship you'd need three times as many marines as the defender, as defenders have significant advantage in knowing the ship and quite likely having automatic internal defenses. Agincourt could be captured with minimal losses because it was a logistics ship, not a combatant so to speak.

[Snail]

Spoiler:

There's information on the info packet that Noemi received in the tech room after you finish that mission.

Personally, I'm still wondering why the UEF hasn't gone for the war-ship capturing approach. They need beams and ships; they should have sent marines to capture the two corvettes in the mission before the final battle with the Carthage.

Spoiler:

In addition to Fury`'s points, they already have the Labouchere, Solace, Duke and (now) the Agincourt. They probably have enough research material for the moment.

Also, I think the majority of GTVA crews would sooner scuttle a ship than let it fall into enemy hands.

[Scotty]

Spoiler:

The idea that the Shivans are the ones talking to Noemi is interesting, yes, but I don't think it really holds up.  In the "cargo depot," the "cargos" talk about how they were deviating from some plan and that an unnamed third party (my guess, Shivans) should not be surprised.  At the end of AoA, we seen the Shivans and Vishnans come to blows over whether the plan should be followed or not, and the Shivans are all for the plan.  Additionally, the phrase "Destroy to preserve" fits more with the Great Preservers than that Great Destroyers, no?  The Destroyers have no real desire to preserve, from everything we've seen.

[Ravenholme]

Spoiler:

The idea that the Shivans are the ones talking to Noemi is interesting, yes, but I don't think it really holds up.  In the "cargo depot," the "cargos" talk about how they were deviating from some plan and that an unnamed third party (my guess, Shivans) should not be surprised.  At the end of AoA, we seen the Shivans and Vishnans come to blows over whether the plan should be followed or not, and the Shivans are all for the plan.  Additionally, the phrase "Destroy to preserve" fits more with the Great Preservers than that Great Destroyers, no?  The Destroyers have no real desire to preserve, from everything we've seen.

Spoiler:

Play AoA again, you'll find that the Vishnans and Shivans are brothers. The Vishnans preserve, but when they feel something needs to die because they have failed, they call in the Shivans, who are there destructive brothers. I know more, but I am not allowed to say.

[Aardwolf]

Spoiler:

Nonono, Vishnans are brothers, Shivans are sisters.

I think Noemi Laporte is to the Shivans as Samuel Bei is to the Vishnans. The radical differences between the manifestation ... an enormous eye, a Shivan Comm Node in a nebula of blood...

Another question, who is "the enemy of your enemy"? Probably the enemy of the Terrans of the GTVA, I suspect...  Shivans? Maybe even Bosch? That'd be an interesting twist!

[General Battuta]

Spoiler:

Another question, who is "the enemy of your enemy"? Probably the enemy of the Terrans of the GTVA, I suspect...  Shivans? Maybe even Bosch? That'd be an interesting twist!

Spoiler:

There are some hints in that mission.

[-Sara-]

Spoiler:

Giant ants.. space ants..

[SomeGuyWithAName]

Well...

Spoiler:

I might be completely wrong on that, but somehow the thought that it is the Shivans speaking to Noemi seems plausible to me. If only for the appeal of having one major character with a deep connection to the Vishnans, and one with a deep connection to the Shivans. Also it might build up a more ambiguous take on the Shivans than simply "they are evil destroyers", even more than AoA did - which is what I am expecting anyway.

AoA to me was also all about preservation - preserving the remnants of mankind i that lost Universe. While WiH with Noemi's character Arc is all about combat, and destruction - and the determination to destroy in order to end a war and ultimately preserve. Maybe I'm over analyzing - and I actually don't have all the flavour material from the tech room and the dream sequence readily available in my head atm, so there might be something contradicting that in the available lore.

[The E]

Someone really should post the cargo messages here..... (Just a hint)

[Shivan Hunter]

From the mission file, presumably in the intended order but idk:

Spoiler:

(This first part is in conjunction with the ship name, so we're only getting the odd-numbered lines here. I may post up the entire thing here, unless someone beats me to it.)

#Alternate Types:
$Alt: Customized Design
$Alt: spoke wordlessly
$Alt: yet you remember them
$Alt: i was only in your head
$Alt: ever heard?
$Alt: are voices ever heard?
$Alt: nor have you ever been
$Alt: are the ear at the door
$Alt: you are a made thing
$Alt: for the quantum whisper
$Alt: between two worlds
$Alt: armor and briefings
$Alt: and portents
$Alt: child's phantasmagoria
$Alt: just as real and deadly
$Alt: treachery and power
$Alt: as a briefing would seem
$Alt: REMEMBER THIS
$Alt: the branches of the co
$Alt: infinite worlds
$Alt: do not be lulled by the
$Alt: and spirituality
$Alt: our own war in heaven
$Alt: the ancient design fails
$Alt: and tapasya
$Alt: the will of those who
$Alt: leaving us to preserve
$Alt: to their frigid watch
$Alt: fray and blur together
$Alt: paramatma! why are you
$Alt: the clockwork
$Alt: dance with and tend to
$Alt: you maintain the old will
$Alt: when we cast it aside
$Alt: the plan they left us
$Alt: you are destroyers
$Alt: and in doing so
$Alt: in the depths
$Alt: their desperate plan
$Alt: you maintain the old plan
$Alt: that stalks the depths
$Alt:
$Alt: we must prepare.
$Alt: dance with
$Alt: and the clockwork
$Alt: execute your will upon
$Alt: that stalks the cold roads
$Alt: Unknown
$Alt: yet you remember

#end


#Callsigns:
$Callsign: Laporte
$Callsign: Ken
$Callsign: BALANCE
$Callsign: MUST BE
$Callsign: MAINTAINED
$Callsign: THE OLD EDICT
$Callsign: IS IMPERATIVE.
$Callsign: MAINTAINED.
$Callsign: WE SEEK THE ONE
$Callsign: OUT OF MANY
$Callsign: THE ONES WHO
$Callsign: CAN MATCH
$Callsign: THE BRAHMANS
$Callsign: OF OLD.
$Callsign: ENLIGHTENMENT IS
$Callsign: A THRESHOLD
$Callsign: THE CATALYST FOR
$Callsign: AMALGAMATION, FOR
$Callsign: THE SINGULARITY
$Callsign: THAT BINDS WHOLE
$Callsign: SPECIES INTO
$Callsign: THE UNION WE SEEK.
$Callsign: THEY BURNT THE
$Callsign: COSMOS CLEAN
$Callsign: IN THE WARS OF
$Callsign: THEIR YOUTH
$Callsign: NEVER AGAIN WILL
$Callsign: THAT PRICE BE PAID
$Callsign: THAT PRICE BE PAID.
$Callsign: THE ONE WHO
$Callsign: THE UNIVERSE TILTS
$Callsign: WITHOUT US
$Callsign: THE FIRE WOULD
$Callsign: FEW EXHIBIT
$Callsign: POTENTIAL
$Callsign: NONE HAVE YET
$Callsign: SURVIVED THE
$Callsign: HARROWING OUR
$Callsign: HARROWING THAT
$Callsign:
$Callsign: THE BRAHMAN
$Callsign: HARROWING.
$Callsign: BUT WE WILL
$Callsign: PERSEVERE, OR SEE
$Callsign: ALL THINGS ENDED.
$Callsign: Vicmouth

[Scotty]

No, that is decidedly not the order.  At all. (well, maybe, but half are missing, and half of the ones there are half missing as well.)

I'd go find them, but I'm too lazy to do that now.  I'll probably do that later though.