Author Topic: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn  (Read 140565 times)

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Offline Snail

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
I have a potentially redundant question: why you kept FreeSpace speeds? IMHO it would have been much more exciting with higher speeds (as seen in Sushi's mod). :)
Stylistic choice I guess.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
Well, the speed already feels higher, at least at the beginning.
Cordi fighters are damn hard to hit before you get used to it.
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Offline AndrewofDoom

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
Well, I enjoyed it the way it was, so I'm perfectly fine with the FreeSpace speeds.

So, Mobius, if you like high speeds, then you should be excited about Stellar Assault FSO...whenever that will come out.[/shamelessplug]
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Offline Mobius

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
I think high speeds would have made dogfights much more exciting. :)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
I think high speeds would have made dogfights much more exciting. :)

They would have also rendered some of the later missions unplayable. Bad idea.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
I don't think so. If managed correctly, high speeds can work just fine.

Spacecraft don't have to be super-uber fast: a multiplier of 0.5< is well enough, and changes to lock on time and afterburner reserves should prevent most (if not all) problems from occuring. :nod:

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
I don't think so. If managed correctly, high speeds can work just fine.

Spacecraft don't have to be super-uber fast: a multiplier of 0.5< is well enough, and changes to lock on time and afterburner reserves should prevent most (if not all) problems from occuring. :nod:


You don't get it.

When you see some of the later missions you'll understand. Faster ships would have actually made them unplayable. Some of them were bad enough (at least in the beta) as it was due to the collision risk.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
Well, I'll see and eventually find a "solution".

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
Yes, pretty much what Battuta said.

Also higher speeds will come with new technological advances etc.
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Offline Commander Zane

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
I think the subject of the whole unplayable mission due to high speed issue is the A.I.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
High speeds (around 300m/s) are doable and can be used, but give rather awkward gameplay.
Autoaim needs to be used, making it nothing special, missiles become main weaponary, gameplay gets very distant from FS and rather difficult to get used to.
It can be done, but WoD is better off with standard speeds, 300m/s speeds are good for mods that try to be realistic. WoD doesn't.

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
I think the subject of the whole unplayable mission due to high speed issue is the A.I.

This. Much of the AI is hardcoded to the Freespace distance and speed ranges. It will still basically work, but it definitely changes AI behavior and you shouldn't ever be surprised when it breaks.

If I did the Velocity Mod again, I'd do it by shrinking all of the fighters to 50-66% of their current size (if there was a code-based way to do this, I would have done it already). This gives the impression of higher speed without breaking all of the hardcoded AI constants.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
These hardcided constants need to be made customizable, it'd certainly help high speed mods (Diaspora could be interested in this).

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
These hardcided constants need to be made customizable, it'd certainly help high speed mods (Diaspora could be interested in this).

Diaspora is just fine, thank you. :) Our ships are small enough that combat feels plenty fast at Freespace speed ranges.

Making the hardcoded constants customizable is a good idea, but will be quite difficult to implement: there are a LOT of them, scattered all over. Some aren't hardcoded numbers, they're just assumptions that implicitly assume certain things. I'm not at all interested in touching it. :)

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
High speeds (around 300m/s) are doable and can be used, but give rather awkward gameplay.
Autoaim needs to be used, making it nothing special, missiles become main weaponary, gameplay gets very distant from FS and rather difficult to get used to.
It can be done, but WoD is better off with standard speeds, 300m/s speeds are good for mods that try to be realistic. WoD doesn't.

You know, you can actually have something between standard speeds and very high speeds. Increasing speed does not necessarily mean pushing it up to the 300 m/s limit, which is known to cause serious balance issues. <250m/s would work, IMHO.

TBH I feel like high speeds (not the highest possible) fit in an anime-based mod, but it may just me. :)

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
BTRL ones may be better, since AB hits about 200m/s on fast craft.
But I think that gameplay is just fine, in WoD, armor is good at stopping weapons, while with speeds increasing, balance shifts towards weapons being able to kill in few hits, provided they can land these hits. WoD is fine as it is, no need to increase speeds.

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
Heh...

...

You kids are slow. 500-600 m/s is not atypical for max velocities in Stellar Assault. :p

However, this is NOT about other mods - I have no doubt that Spoon has done a fine job balancing the speeds and performances of Wings of Dawn so as to ensure good playability. Although speed caps in space are inherently a tad rediculous (with the exception of pushing past c as well as dealing with the normal exhaust velocity, etc. - rational reasons :) ), making sure a game is playable is a significant issue. And, if you must thus limit the speed... do so responsibly.

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Offline Dragon

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
Wings and Aces High both use 700m/s on AB as a fairly normal AB speed.
That's around Mach=2.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
Ah, yes. Fascinating.
Let's just wrap this derailment and shameless self plugs about speeds up. With the conclusion that speeds are the same because:
1.) Collisions.
2.) A.I.
3.) There is nothing wrong with normal speeds.
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Offline Rodo

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Re: RELEASE - Wings of Dawn
Also higher speeds will come with new technological advances etc.

so there's a sequel?

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