Author Topic: Spoon being a drama llama  (Read 5370 times)

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Offline Spoon

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Spoon being a drama llama
(Offtopic posts removed. This may seem like overreacting to you people but you got to realize that it is incredibly frustrating for me to seeing 20 new posts a day for the BP section, where every little thing is being discussed indepth. Whereas WoD gets 5 nonsense posts every 3 days  :doubt:
I've poured my heart and soul into this project for over a year and a half. If the community doesn't care then at least tell me straight up. Then I can just stop bothering instead of seeing my hopes dashed every day on HLP.)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 12:09:01 pm by General Battuta »
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline The E

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Are you serious?

You can't compare the feedback a completely new project gets to the sequel to one of the most beloved campaigns ever.

If anything, the existence of this board proves the community cares, or at least that the influential guys care.

You do realize that, as magnificent as your work is, it's also vastly different from what came before, and that people need to adjust to that otherness first?
It's still brilliant work, but you shouldn't compare it to WiH. Compare it to TVWP, or ASW, or even Inferno.

Hell, you made it into most peoples' "must-play" list within hours of release. That's way more successful than what most other mods can claim.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline AndrewofDoom

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Realize big boards take time to accumulate in size. It's nothing wrong to have a little offtopic posting, because things like the little discussion on "Who's The Stig?" could've became a meme for WoD...or would've just been funny. I think by deleting them, you're discouraging people from wanting to post here.
My Efforts:
SF Knight

20:08:19   AndrewofDoom: Though I find it mildly disturbing that a loli is giggling to mass destruction.
20:10:01   Spoon: I find it mildly arrousing
20:10:07   AndrewofDoom: Woah
20:10:15   Spoon: sound like my kind of loli
20:10:21   Spoon: and im not even a lolicon

 

Offline Quanto

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Are you serious?

You can't compare the feedback a completely new project gets to the sequel to one of the most beloved campaigns ever.

If anything, the existence of this board proves the community cares, or at least that the influential guys care.

You do realize that, as magnificent as your work is, it's also vastly different from what came before, and that people need to adjust to that otherness first?
It's still brilliant work, but you shouldn't compare it to WiH. Compare it to TVWP, or ASW, or even Inferno.

Hell, you made it into most peoples' "must-play" list within hours of release. That's way more successful than what most other mods can claim.
Realize big boards take time to accumulate in size. It's nothing wrong to have a little offtopic posting, because things like the little discussion on "Who's The Stig?" could've became a meme for WoD...or would've just been funny. I think by deleting them, you're discouraging people from wanting to post here.

Truer words couldn't have been spoken.  Its only been what? 3 weeks since release? And you got a forum of your own and your very own weeaboo fanclub? Thats a pretty awesome achievement if you ask me.
00:41:58 <DarthGeek>: I might do it, I need to build a reputation of someone who doesn't suffer fools
(DarthGeek on: "Relentless")

 

Offline General Battuta

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I can totally understand your frustration Spoon, but I think we're all doing the best we can to point players your way. And I also think you're picking up both players and support at a much higher rate than most first campaigns do.

 

Offline Spoon

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Realize big boards take time to accumulate in size. It's nothing wrong to have a little offtopic posting, because things like the little discussion on "Who's The Stig?" could've became a meme for WoD...or would've just been funny. I think by deleting them, you're discouraging people from wanting to post here.
Nothing wrong with a 'little' offtopic posting.
But when all the posts being made the past days are nothing But offtopic its a different story...

Quote from: Quanto
Truer words couldn't have been spoken.  Its only been what? 3 weeks since release? And you got a forum of your own and your very own weeaboo fanclub? Thats a pretty awesome achievement if you ask me.
Exactly because its been 3 weeks... activity has pretty much dropped to zero. Do you think that with more time passing there will be more activity? That's not usually how things go with game releases.

I'm sorry if I sound like a whining c*** but as Battuta has said before me. Feedback is pretty much the only 'reward' for a modder. Its the thing that motivates me and the thing that makes me feel it was worth it.
I'm not getting a lot of info from the release thread about a few things I'd like to know. So I made a poll, the same way Bats did for BP. The only difference is that only 19 people bothered to post in mine vs 120 in the bp one. So I still don't know a whole lot.
Is the universe not interesting enough? Is it poorly written? Or is there no room for speculation because everything is being explained too well? Without feedback from the players, there's no way for me to know.

There are a lot of things WoD did that no other freespace campaign or mod ever did. Is this being appreciated by the players?
meh, I'm sure I got my point across now.

You do realize that, as magnificent as your work is, it's also vastly different from what came before, and that people need to adjust to that otherness first?
I'm not asking for hundreds of adoring fan letters (thought they would be appreciated :p)
If people don't let me know if they like or dislike this otherness then what can I do? Invest an other vast amount of time and effort in a sequel that may or may not be liked because it is not freespace doesn't really sound so appealing to me right now.

Are you serious?

You can't compare the feedback a completely new project gets to the sequel to one of the most beloved campaigns ever.
It's still brilliant work, but you shouldn't compare it to WiH. Compare it to TVWP, or ASW, or even Inferno.
This kinda sounds like you are saying "You can't compare them, they are in completely different leagues" :blah:
Yes WiH and WoD are different beasts both in story telling and gameplay, but the same goes for TVWP, ASW and Inferno. Why would comparing WoD with say ASW be any more valid than comparing it with WiH?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline General Battuta

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It was a great campaign that everyone is going to be talking about for a long time. I don't think you have anything to worry about. I know I'll be pointing new players to it.

 

Offline The E

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Because, in terms of scale, WoD is closer to TVWP or ASW. It doesn't have the massive fanbase of WiH. Expecting the same kind of reaction isn't healthy.

So yes, they are in different leagues. War in Heaven had to live up to AoA. Most of the people who played AoA and the AoA DC were hyped up about it. It had three years in which the hype was built up. WoD, on the other hand, had half that time, no prior release to build upon, and crucially, no expectations attached to it. Believe me, it's going to be different for WoD 2 or the WoD DC.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline AndrewofDoom

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The E is right, yo. Instead of complaining, actually be active about it. The fastest way to help boost attention is to make a ModDB page for Wings of Dawn (Battuta says he'll even link it on War in Heaven's ModDB page!). Tease people about sequels and help campaign makers get their campaigns going (you kinda left a few things out that would be necessary for campaign makers like the Knight and Champion).

And most of all, have confidence and fun in what you're doing. Don't worry about what the rest of the world thinks, as long as you have fun making this.

(Oh God, I think I sounded too cheesy there)
My Efforts:
SF Knight

20:08:19   AndrewofDoom: Though I find it mildly disturbing that a loli is giggling to mass destruction.
20:10:01   Spoon: I find it mildly arrousing
20:10:07   AndrewofDoom: Woah
20:10:15   Spoon: sound like my kind of loli
20:10:21   Spoon: and im not even a lolicon

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Spoon being a drama lama
I would love to link to Wings of Dawn and Vassago's Dirge on the WiH ModDB page.

 

Offline Rodo

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Re: Spoon being a drama lama
Well I liked the campaign myself, I was impressed by the fact that you made all those things yourself, the head anis, the story, the fighters, the weapons (gosh I wanna use the big badass explotion missile again  :drevil: ).

Now that you've got a team... I can't start thinking what are you guys up to.

So we're gonna see a new story right? or just an upgrade of the current stuff?

Also note that I'd love to see a more traumatic version, this one was the happy anime like story.

I want the tragic anime like story, you know... like this previous war but seen from the other side of the mirror.

(if that's possible of course)
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline Qent

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Re: Spoon being a drama lama
So I made a poll, the same way Bats did for BP. The only difference is that only 19 people bothered to post in mine vs 120 in the bp one.
The reason that I didn't vote in your poll wasn't that I didn't enjoy the campaign. I was about to vote, but then realized that I only knew what less than half of the questions were even asking. The Blue Planet census had more questions, but the only ones I didn't know were about the soundtrack at the end of Pawns. So I rushed through Pawns just to find out what the soundtrack at the end was, but I wouldn't consider doing that for an entire campaign, even one like WoD.

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: Spoon being a drama lama
On a related note: how much attention did the original Blue Planet get? I don't remember, because honestly I never paid much attention to it myself until some people recommended it to me.

Since people keep trying to compare WoD with WiH, I can only say that's... not a very good analogy at all. A better one would be the original Blue Planet, created by Darius alone. Sure, it's not an original universe with original assets- but it's the best BP analogy we have.

The first few posts in the BP release thread are about the download link giving a 404.
There's some ranting about how awesome it is, and then there's a bunch of TBL issues and crashes since BP required the MVPs but IIRC didn't include it in the mod.ini.

But even the original Blue Planet had an advantage you don't: it was comfortable. People would play it because it's a "return to Sol" campaign that, from reviews, seems to be well-written- so basically Inferno with less big-ship-spam and more plot.

WoD, on the other hand, is in a completely original universe. People aren't used to it, and most importantly they don't know whether it sucks or not. In a sense, they want the same question answered that you do. And the answer isn't out there yet- you have the foundation for a very interesting universe, and you have the general shape in place for other campaigns, but there needs to be more detail for people to go on. Flesh out the nuances of the humans, Cyrvans, and the Hertak and their battle thralls.

Make another campaign, or maybe a few minicampaigns. They'll each attract new players on their own merit, and of course people who played the original will play them as well.

Also, just thought I'd mention to whoever split these posts off- "llama" has two l's.

 

Offline Jellyfish

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Re: Spoon being a drama llama
Blue Planet also had a slow start. Remember its earliest release? A mission had you losing your HUD. Another two had a bunch of nebula thrown in as the skybox. You could see the lines where the skybox 'folded'. The first Vishnan mission had a fatal crash. Etc.

In this respect, Wings of Dawn was better than Age of Aquarius. But, as Shivan Hunter says, BP had the familiar setting and an unexpected ending twist that ensured an interesting sequel.

Besides, why are you comparing a relatively new mod, with a big old one?
See Inferno. It was the largest mod of its time, and now months can go by without it getting new replies, let alone updates. Only recently it started to move forward, and to no lack of backslash.

As people say, make more of Wings of Dawn, and people will flood in. But if you can do me a favor, keep the light hearted theme. We already have gritty realistic war campaigns aplenty, and believe me if I say one that doesn't make Warhammer 40,000 look like My Little Pony is a breathe of fresh air.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 05:19:10 pm by Jellyfish »
"A weapon is only as powerful as its wielder. With this weapon, you'll be but an annoyance, which would greatly dishonor it. With this weapon, I can change history. With me, this weapon can shape the universe."

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Spoon being a drama llama
But if you can do me a favor, keep the light hearted theme. We already have gritty realistic war campaigns aplenty, and believe me if I say one that doesn't make Warhammer 40,000 look like My Little Pony is a breathe of fresh air.

Yes please. I know at first I said "your campaign isnt srs enuf!" during beta testing but I've come to really like the style you went for.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Spoon being a drama llama
But if you can do me a favor, keep the light hearted theme. We already have gritty realistic war campaigns aplenty, and believe me if I say one that doesn't make Warhammer 40,000 look like My Little Pony is a breathe of fresh air.

Yes please. I know at first I said "your campaign isnt srs enuf!" during beta testing but I've come to really like the style you went for.

I agree.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Spoon being a drama llama
Thanks folks.
Instead of b**** slapping me for being such a wanker you are showing me some valid points.

You'll have to forgive me for this outburst. I'll try not to let it happen again.

Quote
Also, just thought I'd mention to whoever split these posts off- "llama" has two l's.
That was me and Lama is spelled totally fine
Spoiler:
in dutch that is :p
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Spoon being a drama llama
Isn't this like the second time now? :P



By the way, I don't think that feedback is the only reward of modding.
I feel its really about all the learning and problem solving during development, and the feeling of accomplishment once something is finally out the door.
Having other people play it and providing feedback is a bonus.
Having people like it and being popular is yet another bonus above that.

Never do or not do things based off of "oh no it won't be popular".
**** popularity. As you've corrected me on IRC, 98% of the population are idiots, and catering to all of them is impossible.
Do what you want, what you feel is fun, and what you feel is rewarding.
That's all there is to it. :)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 01:52:49 pm by Droid803 »
(´・ω・`)
=============================================================

 

Offline AndrewofDoom

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Re: Spoon being a drama llama
Isn't this like the second time now? :P

I lost count a while ago actually.  :nervous:
* AndrewofDoom runs away very fast.
My Efforts:
SF Knight

20:08:19   AndrewofDoom: Though I find it mildly disturbing that a loli is giggling to mass destruction.
20:10:01   Spoon: I find it mildly arrousing
20:10:07   AndrewofDoom: Woah
20:10:15   Spoon: sound like my kind of loli
20:10:21   Spoon: and im not even a lolicon

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Spoon being a drama llama
Quote from: AndrewofDoom
And most of all, have confidence and fun in what you're doing. Don't worry about what the rest of the world thinks
Dohoho, that's amusing coming from you  :p

Isn't this like the second time now? :P

I lost count a while ago actually.  :nervous:
* AndrewofDoom runs away very fast.
Silence mongrels   :hopping:
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them