[Hades]

I can't say one style is definitively better than the other, as I've enjoyed both, but it would be cool for a new not-Metroidvania game to feature some massive, sprawling levels to explore. Growing up playing Descent kinda instills a need for exploring, you know?

The GTA knockoffs have that which you seek. Just Cause 2, Saints Row 2, Red Faction: Guerrilla, a bunch of others that aren't coming to mind...

What's funny is that SR2 is better than GTA. :<

[NGTM-1R]

Red Dead Redemption.

[Topgun]

Metroid Prime, the first one. the others are good but not the same.

[asyikarea51]

I've been hit by this too but I'm already at the third stage...

1 - Get tired of gaming
2 - Try to find out why I'm tired of gaming, is it a mix of industry shift or me being different or both or this or that and or what etc...
3 - Give up trying to find out why, end up lazy, forget reasoning, ignore 99.99% of new releases in the market, move on, nothing gets done or changes, etc...

So I have no idea why I'm tired of gaming. The same goes for anime (for me anyway), but my actions aren't exactly following my words...

And I can't seem to find the X-Superbox anywhere... /off-topic rant

[Dark Hunter]

Metroid Prime, the first one. the others are good but not the same.

I know Metroid Prime, and love the series. (Take a wild guess at the origin of my screename.)

Even Prime 3 was sufficiently awesome to keep my interest, despite the laughably easy "Normal" difficulty (Hypermode difficulty was much better).

As for the others, thanks for the recommendations. I'll look into 'em.

[Flipside]

As a fan of City Builders, I've noticed a similar trend in those games as well, if you compare, for example, Sim City 4 with Sim City Societies, the graphics may have improved in the latter, but most of the gameplay elements that actually made the game a 'City Builder' has gone to seemingly make room for glowy particle effects etc.

It seems that part of the problem is the attempt to appeal to the widest possible audience, so the stuff that is considered 'too cerebral' tends to be sacrificed for the sake of accessability. The game was obviously aimed at a younger audience, and whilst the 'City' existed, there seemed to be a distinct lack of 'Sim'.

[Thaeris]

I tend to favor games that don't seemingly get old (at least to me). Such games usually thus have endless replay value for various reasons - incredible length/scale, mission editors (make games within games!), open parameters (AKA Civilization, Master of Orion), or are generally moddable. There might have been something I missed, but I think that covers most of the main bases.

One of my favorite companies is Spiderweb Software, actually. For old-school RPGs with huge missions, enormous areas, and gazillions of things to send said RPG parties out on, this has got to be one of the best developers out there. Well, at least I think so. Regardless, I'd recommend the Avernum series to anyone.

[General Battuta]

It's mostly an illusion. Especially in science fiction the quality of material being produced right now massively outstrips what we had in the past.

I don't read science fiction that much.

The good old 'This seems like it's not very good lately, oh, you say it is, well I don't pay much attention to it' argument!

I've been gaming since I was very young; I started with classics like Mechwarrior 2 and I've put hundreds of hours into games like Civ, Deus Ex, Falcon 4 and Baldur's Gate. Today's games - Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect 2, Arkham Asylum - match or exceed these games in just about every respect.

[Dilmah G]

Oh jeez, I dunno if anything's caught up to or beaten Falcon 4.0: AF yet except for well...flying an actual F-16. LOMAC comes close but you haven't mentioned it.

[Thaeris]

The 90's were prime-time for the popularization of flight simulators. When we were getting the Macworld magazine back then, it seems that whenever you'd make a significant purchase, you'd get a copy of one of the Hornet flight simulators from Graphic Simulations as a complimentary item. Today... Well...

Not so much.

Sure there's a lot of great simulators out there today which usually outstrip the old ones in most every respect, but they're definately a niche product today. Despite being a complex simulator, Falcon seems like it was easy enough for the typical flight sim pilot to get the knack of. It was also specialized enough that it had a rythim of its own that made the program truly unique. Unfortunately, its complexity, tied with the greater technology of the late 90's/early 2000's coincided with the downfall of the popular flight simulator.

I think one problem (or boon, which is hopefully more often the case) today is that programs tend to be streamlined for ease of use. That's not a bad thing as far as user-friendliness is concerned, but is seemingly has the side effect in many regards of "dumbing-down" the program and making it less comprehensive. A great deal of the widespread or popular games often seem to meet this stereotype. This is due to the fact that developers seem to be concerned more so with the user getting a greater deal of enjoyment rather than frustration out of a product - and a "watered-down" effect is the apparent outcome. Heck, I can't remember ever beating a final mission properly in Hornet and surviving!

 

[Dilmah G]

Yeah, ah, I remember those days. I got a helluva lot of fun out of games like Hind 95 and Apache. Jeez, whatever happened to Flight Unlimited?

This 'dumbing down' of games is all well and good for the most part, but damn, it's a pity we've gone from something a hair's breadth short of a mainstream genre to a niche avenue.

[Mika]

One of my favorite companies is Spiderweb Software, actually. For old-school RPGs with huge missions, enormous areas, and gazillions of things to send said RPG parties out on, this has got to be one of the best developers out there. Well, at least I think so. Regardless, I'd recommend the Avernum series to anyone.

Thanks for the clue. Now I only need to figure out how to pay those. I'll have to take a look at that after Christmas.

The good old 'This seems like it's not very good lately, oh, you say it is, well I don't pay much attention to it' argument!

I've been gaming since I was very young; I started with classics like Mechwarrior 2 and I've put hundreds of hours into games like Civ, Deus Ex, Falcon 4 and Baldur's Gate. Today's games - Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect 2, Arkham Asylum - match or exceed these games in just about every respect.

But it's true too. I haven't read that much science fiction, and it is not a large factor in the whole broad range of literature. I even put the sci-fi books I have read for you to see and compare. If there is a book that is better than those I listed, I'd like to read it too. But as with gaming, I think there is something odd about the current authors if I find books written hundred years ago considerably better than the new releases. Computers should ease up writing of truly epic novels, but what we actually get is more pop-corn kind of books. I can't escape the feeling that the former books were written because the writer wanted to tell something - it might have been a general philosophical argument of something in life, or just human nature itself. Current books are more about writing for writing's sake, i.e. to keep the author alive. I don't mean that I would despise their work of researching the backgrounds or minute details, but it seems that the books aren't in any ways touching any more. That is to say, the heart is missing.

The interesting thing is that I found MW2 when it came out actually rather limited as a game. I had played earlier flight sims, and after Falcon 3.0 and F-15 SE3 it was mainly like a arcade sim missing the third dimension. I played through it two times (Falcons and Wolves), but got bored. A lot of people said there are interesting tactics in there, I just didn't find them, neither did the engine actually support creative thinking that much. Red Dead Redemption Red Faction: Guerrilla was stupendously boring. As I said earlier, a Generic Hero #19 doing fetch quests. Red Dead Redemption = Borderlands = Saboteur in my eyes, and none of them impressed me. I can't say much about ME2 since I haven't yet played it - ME1 seems interesting at the moment, but I don't expect that it will hold my interest to play it several times in a way KOTORs did. I admit Arkham Asylum looks nice in Prince of Persia kind of way, but I haven't played Batman yet. But a current flight sim exceeding Falcon 4.0, I haven't seen that yet, they may upgrade the graphics but nothing has came close to the campaign itself - or will come in the foreseeable future.

And as for dumbing down, I agree with that. The games are seen more as entertainment in a way movies are, and the mass markets will follow the average. The average consumer doesn't want complexity or demanding stuff, he just wants to relax (as do I occasionally). But given that gaming was once viewed as an escape route from the all too familiar sitcom on telly, it has nowadays become the sitcom.

EDIT: Sorry, mixed up Red Faction: Guerrilla and Red Dead Redemption by the title names. My bad.

[Mika]

By the way, introduce FS2 to your friend who has been playing consoles the last couple of years. Let him play through the training missions and see how many times he fails (my friend failed twice, once for touching the controls when told not to do so and the second time in missile evasion). Then let him play the first mission at the Normal difficulty. My friend died three times on the first head on fight on the first mission and gave up! 

Boy I was surprised to see that! I would think avoiding the shots would be self-evident, but for some reason that thought didn't cross his mind.

[The E]

But it's true too. I haven't read that much science fiction, and it is not a large factor in the whole broad range of literature. I even put the sci-fi books I have read for you to see and compare. If there is a book that is better than those I listed, I'd like to read it too.

There are many, many books out there. The ones you read, while certainly not bad, are also 40 or more years old; SF storytelling did go through a lot of changes in that time period.

But as with gaming, I think there is something odd about the current authors if I find books written hundred years ago considerably better than the new releases. Computers should ease up writing of truly epic novels, but what we actually get is more pop-corn kind of books.

Sturgeon's Law is still in effect. Also, never underestimate the sales potential of a movie tie-in. Authors will write what they can sell (and you rarely get to read unsold novels).

I can't escape the feeling that the former books were written because the writer wanted to tell something - it might have been a general philosophical argument of something in life, or just human nature itself. Current books are more about writing for writing's sake, i.e. to keep the author alive. I don't mean that I would despise their work of researching the backgrounds or minute details, but it seems that the books aren't in any ways touching any more. That is to say, the heart is missing.

Then I would suggest you're reading the wrong books. I would recommend to check out Richard Morgan, Charles Stross or Iain M Banks for some truly cool reading experiences. John Scalzi's Old Man's War series is also quite good. Oh, and Neal Stephenson. Never forget Neal Stephenson.

[mxlm]

Can't believe I missed this the first time

But I can hardly call it a quality game if I spent less than 20 hours in it

Portal says hi.

Then I would suggest you're reading the wrong books.

Dude, he didn't like Hyperion. He must hate fun.

[The E]

Depends. Hyperion, while very good, is blemished by Endymion. The sequel was bad enough to make the original bad retroactively.

[Mobius]

I blame Square Enix for turning Final Fantasy into a mediocre series. That's one of the reasons why I don't care much about gaming news unless they're about an Ace Combat game I can buy.

I wonder if the FPS genre will die one day, it's overwhelming presence is a bit disturbing if you ask me. Gaming is surprisingly oligotypical nowadays.

[Mika]

Portal says hi.

Hello

I have spent about four hours watching that game, but have never played it myself so it can't be that bad. It is one of the more original titles recently. By the way, that twenty hours includes the replays too. If I'm not interested enough to play again, well... Again, I believe that Portal was originally supposed to actually be in Half-Life 2, but was cut since the game play would have changed so much.

[General Battuta]

So the overwhelming vibe I'm getting is that you haven't played or read any of the stuff you're complaining about.

I see an easy solution here. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader.

Your rant about books is symptomatic. We don't get epics any more, we get popcorn novels! Authors aren't writing with something to say! Meanwhile you've got R. Scott Bakker making his brutal philosophical points over there, you've got Iain Banks delivering epics on the nature of reality over there, you've got Richard Morgan unleashing his rage on the injustice of society over there, you've got George R. R. Martin producing these vast intricate opuses over there...

In the time it's taken you to complain in this thread you could've googled for good modern authors and gotten something to read.

[CP5670]

By the way, introduce FS2 to your friend who has been playing consoles the last couple of years. Let him play through the training missions and see how many times he fails (my friend failed twice, once for touching the controls when told not to do so and the second time in missile evasion). Then let him play the first mission at the Normal difficulty. My friend died three times on the first head on fight on the first mission and gave up!

Boy I was surprised to see that! I would think avoiding the shots would be self-evident, but for some reason that thought didn't cross his mind.

It makes some sense if he is used to modern FPSs, which usually have slow movement and hitscan weapons that cannot be dodged. The emphasis on movement and dodging in FPSs fell away when they went from arena-style combat to the semi-realistic style we see today.