[CP5670]

And that's exactly my point if you didn't notice it. Sandwich starts from the assumption that his faith is irrevocable proof that God exists, the same way that you assume that 1+1=2 is the basis for your whole knowledge of mathematics. You're as much right as he is, inside your very own frame of reference, and for each of you it is impossible to admit otherwise.

Actually, 1+1=2 isn't the basis there, but rather the rules of logic; I could give you a more detailed explanation a bit later, but I am a bit tired now.

But this stems back to that discussion we had a few months ago; absolute truth must be analyzed before perceptive truth if we are to progress because our society is made up of more than one thinking unit. (first problem-solving rule applied to the first fundamental rule gives the first fundamental assumption )

1+1=2

There, easy.

But I can disprove that:

1+1=3

so ha!

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
Actually, 1+1=2 isn't the basis there, but rather the rules of logic; I could give you a more detailed explanation a bit later, but I am a bit tired now.

Read my comment again. And then prove me that, if 1+1 wasn't necessarily equals 2, the whole of mathematics wouldn't crumble rather noisily. You're working on bastract concepts manipulated by abstract rules, based on simple observations of reality. Change the perception of said reality, concepts will have different semantic values and the whole ruleset becomes useless.

[Redfang]

Originally posted by CP5670
1+1=3

 
And I thought you were good on maths...

[CP5670]

Looks like we are back to that old argument again...

As I said before, nothing can be proved if we are going by the perceptive truth, not even the existence of a perceptive truth. That is part of the first fundamental rule. I go by an absolute truth in everyday life because civilization could not form or stay together without assuming an absolute truth of some sort, at least until everything in the absolute truth has been analyzed. We can then deal with the perceptive truth. (first problem-solving rule)

But since we are now going by a perceptive truth here, this is my best argument: I am right and everyone else is wrong! I am the god! Everyone else is stupid! This cannot be disproved of course, so concepts of right and wrong have no meaning anymore, so ha!

[Styxx]

You might not know, but any and all truths are derived from perceptive knowledge. You may try to mask it some way or another, but that's the inescapable truth.

Sucks, eh?

[CP5670]

You might not know, but any and all truths are derived from perceptive knowledge. You may try to mask it some way or another, but that's the inescapable truth.

Sucks, eh?

um...read my post again; that's part of what the first fundamental rule says. Also, there is no "inescapable truth," because there is no truth in the first place. See the paradox here?

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
But since we are now going by a perceptive truth here, this is my best argument: I am right and everyone else is wrong! I am the god! Everyone else is stupid! This cannot be disproved of course, so concepts of right and wrong have no meaning anymore, so ha!

Exacly... inside your own little world, that can perfectly be true. It's sad, though, to see you think that way. Some nice guys in white are coming over to take you to a nice, padded room...

[CP5670]

Actually I don't really think that way (I hope you got the joke there ), but even if I did, who would be to say whether I was right or wrong?

[Styxx]

Ah, you still didn't show me anything smarter than humans...

[CP5670]

eh? That was not my objective in the first place...

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
Actually I don't really think that way (I hope you got the joke there ), but even if I did, who would be to say whether I was right or wrong?

And that's my point! Under your own frame of reference, you could be right (as it is that you believe you're right thinking the way you do right now), but under the frame of reference of any other observer, you might not be right. And that's why this whole "God exists?" argument is pointless!!

Got it this time?

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
eh? That was not my objective in the first place...

Well, you said that humans are stupid, therefore, you - being a part of the category "human" - are stupid too. Don't be too harsh on yourself.

[CP5670]

But that is what the first fundamental assumption is for! I can't wait until I formalize my ideas and publish them; then you may see what I am really talking about here...

Well, you said that humans are stupid, therefore, you - being a part of the category "human" - are stupid too. Don't be too harsh on yourself.

Actually, when I meant humans, I am thinking of it from a sociological perspective: humanity, not humans. Humans are all of different intelligence, but the average is relatively mediocre. Of course I am stupid in many ways too, but better than the average.

[Styxx]

Tell me one absolute truth, then.

[Redfang]

Originally posted by Styxx
Got it this time?

 
We'll see... I highly doubt. :p

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
Actually, when I meant humans, I am thinking of it from a sociologicaly perspective: humanity, not humans. Humans are all of different intelligence, but the average is relatively mediocre.

Nope, your post clearly stated (semantic simplification): "Humans are stupid". That means the same as "Every element of the category 'humans' is stupid".

(edit: Category, not set. Sets are flawed constructs)

[CP5670]

Tell me one absolute truth, then.

According to the first fundamental rule, this is impossible. There is no such thing as an absolute truth or a perceptive truth as seen from an absolute view.

Nope, your post clearly stated (semantic simplification): "Humans are stupid". That means the same as "Every element of the set 'humans' is stupid".

Well, you're just twisting words now. I should have probably said that humanity and not humans are stupid, but that is irrelevant now.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
According to the first fundamental rule, this is impossible. There is no such thing as an absolute truth or a perceptive truth and seen from an absolute view.

Which means that...
Talking about absolute truths is pointless!

Ta-da! There, got it this time?

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
Well, you're just twisting words now. I should have probably said that humanity and not humans are stupid, but that is irrelevant now.

Yeah, I'm messing with you. That's what I have been doing all along...

[CP5670]

Which means that...
Talking about absolute truths is pointless!

Ta-da! There, got it this time?

Nah, not yet. Since this cannot be proved, everything has a point and everything is pointless as well, and I think this fun; use that rule again.

Yeah, I'm messing with you. That's what I have been doing all along...

Don't worry; I am used to this, having done it my whole life.