[killadonuts]

I believe that religion itself will (hopefully) be lost in the natural evolution of our race.
The human mind will evolve to a point where the religion mental void I spoke of earlier is replaced with logic.
Don't argue with this either because it's already happening.
An athiest has such an evolved mind.
Religion will be remembered as the appendix of the human mind.

People with religion are incabable of any logical thought and rely on mythology(which is the same as religion as far as I'm concerned) to (again) explain what cannot be explained.

I hope I've offened most of you because it just means I'm right.

[CP5670]

I believe that religion itself will (hopefully) be lost in the natural evolution of our race.
The human mind will evolve to a point where the religion mental void I spoke of earlier is replaced with logical understanding of the Universe as we know it.
Don't argue with this either because it's already happening.
An athiest has such an evolved mind.
Religion will be remembered as the appendix of the human mind.

People with religion are incabable of any logical thought and rely on mythology(which is the same as religion as far as I'm concerned) to (again) explain what cannot be explained.

I hope I've offened most of you because it just means I'm right.

Hehe, I'm liking your stuff more and more. As an "analytical philosopher," the first bit precisely constitutes one of the things I am going to write about later on: an increasing trend towards logical complexity of thinking also fosters a greater understanding of reality.
The religious are indeed incapable of grasping reality in terms of logic, because as I said earlier, it is too complex for them. They will take the simplicity of "god did this, god did that, no more explanation is needed" over the mathematics of the universe any day. And the "offended" bit is absolutely true; people say they are offended in an attempt to bug out when they are out of further arguments to put in.

[beatspete]

For all of you americans who think that the EU is an abreviation for a state near alaska, the EU is actually highly important and benefitial to all its member countries.  France and Germany wouldnt go to war these days, they have better things to do (unlike the US) so instead the EU quit the military and set up a little buisness.  For example, it take money from britain, then gives it to spain so the spannish can build roads.  Then it takes Spain's money and gives it back to spain so they can build even more roads.
The EU also means that imigrants who are living in France and getting hassle for it, can come to britain where the goverment is too politcally correct to get turn them down.
The EU also lets spannish fishing boats steal all the fish from britians seas.
The EU wants to get rid of proper coins, and replace them with ones that all look the same, kind of like american ones. Maybee they dont like the Queen.
The EU means british farmers (who have lots of expenses to pay) loose out trade to some spannish farmers because it cost them less to produce food.
Finally, the EU means you cant have Duty Free anymore, but it doesnt limit how much u take across the border, so u can fill your car with things that cost twice as much in the Uk, and hop back on the ferry saving thousands of pounds.
Oh and you can cross the border without showing a passport or filling any forms in like the US has.

So thats why the EU is great.  For spain.

pete


(dunno why i am attacking spain)

[CP5670]

I am an American and still quite a supporter of the EU looking from both a European view and a global view. As I said before, it is merely the next step in the advance of society. The European nations are already intertwined economically, and it only makes so to extend this to politics as well. Some of the petty individuals will of course resist, but they cannot stop either the "mass social forces" of history or the people with the money. Same thing goes with the US, Canada and possibly Mexico as well; they can all be considered as one economy on a global scale since they all function so similarly. It shouldn't be all that long before these two merge into the US as well.

[Stryke 9]

Killadonuts: Meh. You've simply replaced one god with another. I'm an agnostic with atheist leanings, and I'm not "evolved" any further than anyone else- I simply tried very hard to take an objective viewpoint in earlier years, and as far as I can tell I've more or less found one (meaning I probably haven't).

Religion is a byproduct of philosophy, a rather old one, and a rather institutionalized one, but a core part of philosophy it remains. The reason why much of it seems silly and irrational now is simply because it has become institutionalized: religion nowadays smacks of "I know everything there is to know about the universe, because I place blind faith in a few scraps of quasi-historical lore from thousands of years ago." Religion can mesh perfectly well with what we know of the universe today, it's simply that few of the established religions have found a good way to cling to their old doctrines while conceding that the Earth is round and that there aren't any sea monsters in the local lake. They've started contradicting themselves- which in itself does not even mean the basic ideas in each religion are not sound, simply that it's likely mixed in with superstition and junk (though, who knows, even that may not be entirely bosh). In fact, all you're doing is treating atheistic science as a new God, with the same unquestioning worship, sense of superiority, and all else that goes with religion- hate to break it to ya, but there's no saying we know a whole lot more about the Universe than people did a few thousand years ago, and no saying that a lot of what we think we know today won't seem kinda silly centuries from now. We've got more and better tools to measure the unknown, but it will always remain more or less the unknown, and if there's anything less reliable than the truth, it's the mind that interprets it.

And if you think that any human mind that does not even attempt to encompass what no devices we will ever have can measure, that never even tries to comprehend the incomprehensible workings of the universe, is somehow superior, I'd have to stop being objective and say you're flat-out wrong. Lack of imagination breeds walking zombies, not a perfect man.

[CP5670]

but there's no saying we know a whole lot more about the Universe than people did a few thousand years ago.

Actually, that is quite wrong, mainly due in part to some major advances made during the 20th century. (i.e. Godel's theorem) This has had an incredible impact on philosophy, especially in the last fifty years, as has the randomized view of science.

And if you think that any human mind that does not even attempt to encompass what no devices we will ever have can measure, that never even tries to comprehend the incomprehensible workings of the universe, is somehow superior, I'd have to stop being objective and say you're flat-out wrong. Lack of imagination breeds walking zombies, not a perfect man.

Of course it is stupid to not make any attempt to understand the complexities of existence, which is probably the reason that I most dislike religion, because this is exactly what religion tries to prevent people from doing. You are right in that philosophy and religion started out as one and the same thing (as did every other aspect of learning), but they have become seperated in today's age: religion is just simple philosophy for the average man, but it has taken away all the reasoning that made philosophy so great.

[killadonuts]

We eventually realized that the Earth is round.
We will eventually realize the lies of the "Invisable Man Who Lives In the Clouds".

A lot of people in the history of mankind have parished because of your Invisable Man!!!
Think about that for a second or two.

However people throughout history have learned the powerful effect religion has on the human mind.
Results: Theocracies
              Ultra-Puritanist Societies (Taliban)
              Holy Wars
              The State Of Utah      

People have died and are continuing to die because of your God!!!!
Stop the Insanity and learn the truth!

[Top Gun]

Originally posted by CP5670
I am an American and still quite a supporter of the EU looking from both a European view and a global view. As I said before, it is merely the next step in the advance of society. The European nations are already intertwined economically, and it only makes so to extend this to politics as well. Some of the petty individuals will of course resist, but they cannot stop either the "mass social forces" of history or the people with the money. Same thing goes with the US, Canada and possibly Mexico as well; they can all be considered as one economy on a global scale since they all function so similarly. It shouldn't be all that long before these two merge into the US as well.

Thanks but no thanks. The EU is nowhere near as democratic as Britain at the minute and until it is I will oppose it. As for the US ..... I have nothing against Americans but some of your Politicians make Mr Le Penn look like a Liberal.

[Stryke 9]

As far as thought goes, yes, we have had some innovations. I was referring to putting excessive faith in scientific theorems and instruments. Already much of last year's revolutionary new discovery often turns out to be this year's laughable junk, and if you've kept track of much of the silliness that comes under the heading "quantum physics", it draws several parallels to the myths of old. And overall, even finding new universal theories and novel ways of thinking about the Universe doesn't mean we've come any closer to understanding it.

[Zeronet]

and people die due to natural disasters, crime, famine. If CAFOD wasnt here to help, if religious groups didnt help, it would all be a lot worse. Stop it with the war scapegoating, if the war wasnt about religion they'd of fought about something else. And the lord isnt invisible, for i see his work all around me, helping those in need. Also try to post in a less insultive manner killadonuts.

[Stryke 9]

Originally posted by killadonuts
We eventually realized that the Earth is round.
We will eventually realize the lies of the "Invisable Man Who Lives In the Clouds".

A lot of people in the history of mankind have parished because of your Invisable Man!!!
Think about that for a second or two.

However people throughout history have learned the powerful effect religion has on the human mind.
Results: Theocracies
              Ultra-Puritanist Societies (Taliban)
              Holy Wars
              The State Of Utah      

People have died and are continuing to die because of your God!!!!
Stop the Insanity and learn the truth!

...said the man, pounding his pulpit.



Yes, religion has been the excuse given to much of the ugliness that humanity has exhibited throughout history. That's not religion, that's people being horrible to each other and rationalising it- has nothing to do with God, religion, anything of the sort. If everyone in the world were an atheist, an analytical scientist, what you will- people would still be monsters to each other.

[killadonuts]

Originally posted by Zeronet
and people die due to natural disasters, crime, famine. If CAFOD wasnt here to help, if religious groups didnt help, it would all be a lot worse. Stop it with the war scapegoating, if the war wasnt about religion they'd of fought about something else. And the lord isnt invisible, for i see his work all around me, helping those in need. Also try to post in a less insultive manner killadonuts.

Spoken just like the liars of the Church themselves
Clergy=Liars
If I've insulted you then you should seriously reconsider your Theological state of mind.
Like I said before: If I offend then it just means I'm right

[Stryke 9]

From arguing about how pure logic and rationality were ideal to a statement like that in 3 posts. Not bad, killadonut.

Ignore. Moving on... where were we?

[CP5670]

I think it is about the same actually, except that it appears to be run simply by the upper classes with all the money, which of course is not good, but it is unavoidable; the same occurs in any republic, including any existing ones. It really boils down to a compromise between political freedom and economic prosperity.

[killadonuts]

Originally posted by Top Gun


Thanks but no thanks. The EU is nowhere near as democratic as Britain at the minute and until it is I will oppose it. As for the US ..... I have nothing against Americans but some of your Politicians make Mr Le Penn look like a Liberal.

I'm American and you won't see any arguments from me about this post. I think your absolutely right.
As Russia gets better the US gets worse.

[CP5670]

We need more ultra-radical politicians around; I like those kinds of people.

As far as thought goes, yes, we have had some innovations. I was referring to putting excessive faith in scientific theorems and instruments. Already much of last year's revolutionary new discovery often turns out to be this year's laughable junk, and if you've kept track of much of the silliness that comes under the heading "quantum physics", it draws several parallels to the myths of old. And overall, even finding new universal theories and novel ways of thinking about the Universe doesn't mean we've come any closer to understanding it.

Sorry, but that last sentence there made no sense. Apply that first assumption of logic again and it can be seen that we have two alternatives here: either to stagnate completely, or to use the rules of logic, the only system of thought that humans in the generality are familiar with (or maybe even capable of using), to determine how things work. Progress is of course going slow in the grand scheme, but it's like comparing f=1 and f=1+.0001x as both approach transfinity.

And the lord isnt invisible, for i see his work all around me, helping those in need

But I also see his work all around me, hurting those in need, and therefore something seems to be wrong here. Refer to wEvil's statement about god a pages ago once again.

[Top Gun]

Originally posted by Zeronet
and people die due to natural disasters, crime, famine. If CAFOD wasnt here to help.

True as that may be it is still a tiny proportion of the Catholic Church's Vast fortune. Please explain to me how the church can Justify having all of that wealth while there is still so much third world suffering going one.

[CP5670]

While we are on the topic, when it comes to helping the poor, many churches apply a rather tricky tactic. What they do is to offer the people help if they will agree to join the church and accept its principles, an offer which the people obviously take up. Most of these people are uneducated and will easily fall prey to simple ideas such as those taught by the churches; the church leaders know this well, but it is a good tactic for quickly converting masses of people to a given faith.

[killadonuts]

Originally posted by Top Gun


True as that may be it is still a tiny proportion of the Catholic Church's Vast fortune. Please explain to me how the church can Justify having all of that wealth while there is still so much third world suffering going one.

I don't even think the high "ranking" clergy members (you know, the Vatican people) even believe their own religion. They just selfishly cash in on the lies and "charities". They just want to control people.(Another natural function of the human mind)


Conformity=Heaven  
Resistance=Hell  
Thats their basic message as I percieve it.

[CP5670]

Yeah, that is probably true for at least some of them, as it provides a quick and easy way to gain access to large sums of money, and history shown what lengths people are willing to go to for that.

Conformity=Heaven
Resistance=Hell
Thats their basic message as I percieve it.

This ties in to what I said earlier about religion discouraging the further pursuit of knowledge. So much for independent and original thought.