Author Topic: SDn Sariel (WIP)  (Read 10191 times)

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Offline Bryan See

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P3D updated yet again. This time, it is all original, with cues taking from my earlier attempts of my Raguel HTL, as well as Betrayal's. Dekker, I agree with this.
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Offline Lepanto

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It's nice that you moved to a more original design. However, right now, it just doesn't look angular and spiky enough to be really Shivan-y, especially around the midsection. Also, it lacks the visual menace and aggression of ships like the Ravana and Rakshasa. It could be a solid design, if you incorporated more of the Shivans' characteristic spiky ship design.
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Offline Lorric

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Re: Shivan battleship WIP
It's nice that you moved to a more original design. However, right now, it just doesn't look angular and spiky enough to be really Shivan-y
If you reduce the spikes at the rear by half or even more it would actually look shivan
Hmmm... I've always been confused about what people think makes a ship look Shivan and what doesn't, but this is probably the biggest contradiction I've seen yet. :)

For me, just it being red and dark and menacing-looking will probably do. :D

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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The new design posted looks more like a descendent of the Colossus.
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Offline Bryan See

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I've updated the p3d once more. This time, I've begun adding details to the ship. I hope I can make it more Shivan like.

The reason I'm re-doing this Sariel is because I wanted to be original, given that some modellers have historically used parts from retail and other meshes to kit-bash. I'm putting my new-found modelling skills to full use, given I've learned Blender for years if I'm mistaken. I agree with comments by Lepanto, Lorric and Trivial Psychic here, only that I think I need to do something which is more dark and more menacing-looking.
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Offline Bryan See

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Okay, I've updated my p3d. It should be more based on my previous concept in the this month's newsletter, but I wanted to make it look "Shivan", except at the texturing stage, I think black and red are the standard color schemes. The only one is the spiky thing at the rear of the front section. The topmost needs reworking. I'm sure that other parts may need reworking anyway. I'm taking a look at more HTL Shivan ships (especially those by Rga_Noris) for inspiration.
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Offline crizza

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Sry, but for me it looks like a vasudan ship right now...
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Offline headdie

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Sry, but for me it looks like a vasudan ship right now...

I dont agree that it looks Vasudan, but it dosnt say Shivan to me either, perhaps a small number of larger forward protrusions pointed from the centre section
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Offline Droid803

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If I had to pick between the two, I would agree that it looks more Vasudan than it looks Shivan, but it really looks neither.
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Offline Rheyah

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I took a look at the p3d and while I'm not a modeller, I could say a few ways you could make it catch the Shivan aesthetic.

The ship has too much vertical and horizontal symmetry.  It's rare to find a Shivan vessel that has symmetry along more than one of its axis.  If you look at it from the side, there is a slight profile asymmetry in the bulk of the ship (from about 10% of the way bow to stern) but it's not enough to really strike out and have a profile.  That's one way you could improve on it.  Bulk out its profile and ruin the symmetry along one or two of its axis.  A Shivan ship should look wrong.  I think that's when you know you are getting close.

Add a few jutting growths in places you could imagine an animal growing them.

The forward reminds me of about fifty anime warships.  Reverse the direction of the chin element, thicken it and split it into two or three segments while simultaneously ruining its symmetry and it should have the desired effect you want.

Please, don't take my advice as anything other than someone interested in seeing a model come to life.


 

Offline Aardwolf

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It seems like you've restarted this thing like 5 times now? Maybe you'd be better off if, instead of trying to come up with a model to fill a particular role (in this case "Shivan battleship"), you make a bunch of models that are deliberately not detailed and try to come up with descriptions for them. Or you could show us thumbnails of them and ask what people think looks most promising.

Hm, that could be misread as "throw a bunch of crap at us and we'll tell you which turd to polish". The idea is not that they should be random or "bad", but that you should practice coming up with interesting overall shapes separately from detailing. And of course, practice practice practice.

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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If I were to make some suggestions to perhaps (in my opinion) give this design a more Shivan aesthetic, I would start by:

A - Suggesting that you alter the aft engine segment from a laterally-stretched diamond, to a more bottom-flat triangular profile.
B - Modify the central segment to make it less broad and more tall, drawing inspiration from the Moloch as the only other tall-and-slim design from the original :V: model set.
C - Thicken the "neck" section where it connects to the head.
D - Increase the size of the head section by about 25% and move it up to be a bit more centrally-positioned as opposed to its current arrangement of attaching near the top of the head.  At the same time, retain the ventral "tooth" both in its current position and size.
E - Use the "tooth" as your repeating detail element, as opposed to spikes or spines, and for the most part, keep them as aft-swept teeth as your current one is.  Have them in varying size and position, but more prominently on the ventral as your current tooth is.
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Offline Ulala

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I think you're definitely improving; Rheyah and Trivia Psychic have some great ideas to draw from, and as Aardwolf said, keep practicing! :yes:
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Offline Bryan See

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Based on Trivial Psychic's suggestions followed by Ulala's encouraging advice, I've updated my Sariel p3d again. The frontal section is 25% bigger than original; the neck is thicker; the middle section is more tall and less broad; the rear is now triangular; and there are tooths being used as my repeating detail element, with the original rear ventral tooth retained. Additions include Betrayal-inspired design cue from the Scylla and my Raguel, the wings at the top of the frontal section (I think it may be used on the SJ Amritaya HTL anyway), and the more detailed central segment.
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Offline Nyctaeus

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In case of that frontal hole or whatever it is - remove it :P. Similar thing is in my Raguel, because I didn't model this section at all. It's going to be triangular thing with three glowing red eyes here, just like in Cain or Lucyfer. Current thing... You don't want to know, for what this thing look like for me.

The rest of this thing finally looks like decent shivan battleship and I really like it :yes:. I think you should add more smoothness to flat sections of the ship and than - carve some details in. Take a look on SCv Armaros model for example. Raguel is going to have similar carvings with glowing texture.

As for the front section, I have some idea that You might use:

All of this should be symetrical. Small arms on the left side of the ship are SAAA beams and this thing might have 4 of them on both sides. Spinal beam cannons are very easy to destroy in most shivan warships. This should provide enough protection for the front. Also I painted main beams. Two lower ones are LReds, the upper, smaller ones are MReds/SReds [or 4 LReds xD]. Also I painted the reimagined, Lucyfer-inspired front.
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Thank you for considering my suggestions.  I certainly agree that it is shaping up to be a unique Shivan design.  That said, the waist spines give me a mind of the Rakshasa.  If I may press my luck however, I would like to voice some additional suggestions... again based on my opinion.

I agree with Betrayal that the 5-point nose shape is a somewhat non-Shivan element.  However, I have an alternate proposal to his.  You appear to want to have the main gun as a nose button-style turret, as opposed to the spine-mounted types of most other Shivan FS2 designs.  I would suggest that instead of your concave nose, you instead chose an "outer" nose.  The upper triangular portion of the nose would slope downwards as with ships such as the Lucifer or Cain/Lilith.  However, instead of the "3 lights" found on those ships, yours would be recessed within the triangle, in the center of which would be your main cannon.  The lower portion of the nose would be swept back underneath and mount another pair of recessed turrets, with either lighter secondary beams, AAA, or missile batteries.  If they aren't AAA, then might I suggest miniature versions of Betrayal's head claws mounting AAA.

I like what you've done with the side portions of the head, but the current upper panels seem to me to be completely out of place.  Unless this is just the beginning of a more elaborate structure, I am concerned that this section provides too much of a hiding space for players.

I'd like to also suggest that you plan to add a small engine just at the back of the head on the underside.  That space seems to be begging for one.

I'd also like to elaborate on my suggestions regarding the repeating tooth I had suggested.  As an example, I would suggest a few smaller, aft-swept teeth mounted perhaps down the ship's dorsal spine, then perhaps another pair on the engine segment further to the sides and outward canted, and another pair on the ventral, closer to the center-line and slightly less outward canted.  I'd also suggest making the forward dorsal tooth slightly smaller than it is right now.  The dorsal and ventral spikes give me an odd impression of a tropical fish which doesn't fit with the Shivan "feel" in my opinion.

Also, if you are planning on making this a shielded vessel, as it says in the original description, you may want to consider adding shield generators... perhaps even subsystems.  I'd take inspiration from the generators aboard the Lucifer.

Do you plan on including a fighterbay in the design?
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Offline Nyctaeus

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Yeah, my SAAAs are a little bit too big. I wasn't really sober when I was painting this :P

As for the fighterbay, I see it's present on the bottom of the ship, in rear part of the ship, right?
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Offline Bryan See

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Sure. A fighterbay is included in my design, but I'd like to make it more like a Shivan version of the Star Destroyer's hangar bay with "tooths". :)

I made the inner nose which is more like the Cain/Lilith and Lucifer. Also, I've added in three arms from my Raguel. All of these will become destroyable sub-objects, and will likely be armed with Slash-AAAs and anti-fighter missile batteries.

I'm planning to add an engine at the rear of the "head" section. It is one of the destroyable sub-objects with amounts of detail.

The shielding component will be at the back, but it will be "hardened" in some modelling aspect. It will also be destroyable.

The repeating tooth I'm going to spread all over my model with varying sizes. The forward dorsal tooth size was reduced and reworked.

Anyway, the waist you mentioned fits well in the final version of Inferno's SSJ Gigas model (which I think it may be unfinished, but this part will likely be added to that model), another one based on the Rakshasa.

The p3d is updated yet again. Check out on the beginning of the thread.

I'm happy that you guys helped me out, but I feel my original design's Shivan if it is to be textured black and red.
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Offline IronBeer

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I've been watching this for a while, and I like the way the current iteration of the model is going. Looking forward to seeing your final product!
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Offline headdie

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not a fan of having yet another ship with 3 forward mandibles but beyond that I like where this is headding
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