Author Topic: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)  (Read 380391 times)

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Offline Turambar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I feel like this whole thing is a manufactured controversy, like Benghazi or this latest planned parenthood thing.  There was never any truth to it, it's just people trying to piss on other people's work.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
It has all the hallmarks of that and yet again and again the accusations have proven disturbingly accurate.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
If we leave aside the accusations of racism, sexism, hostile work environments, all of that crap that will always devolve to he-said-she-said, we're still left with enough stuff that should be easy for CR and CIG to disprove. All I want to see at this point is some progress that isn't tied to making new jpgs for the store to sell. Some stuff about the mechanics of the universe. Indications that they got their flight physics figured out. Like, the nitty-gritty project management stuff. GANTT charts. Burndown stats. That sort of thing, regularly updated.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
There's no truth that they've missed their deadlines?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12734-Draft-FAQ

"Can you explain the stretch goals?"

"The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period. We intend to build the game that Chris Roberts described at GDC Online regardless, but without additional funding we are going to have to do it one piece at a time, starting with Squadron 42, rather than as a single larger production."

They've neither started with SQ42 nor finished within two years.  The current game and pricing is basically pay-to-win whale bait.

Another interview I found Chris Roberts says the team size at production end will be 60-70 people.  It's currently 261.  Take that as an indicator for what you will.  Part of the plan though was that increased money would allow the universe to be realized all at once, instead it's pushed everything back.

Like realistically.
This project is no longer a kickstarter. It's an Early Access game. The game is out, people are paying to play, some people are paying to play it with much better ships.  The company is already getting paid for their work what incentive do they have to finish it?

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
It has all the hallmarks of that and yet again and again the accusations have proven disturbingly accurate.

I dont think any accusations were proven to be disturbingly accurate yet. Its all he said she said right now.

They did miss the deadline when it comes to Squadron 42, tough. However, missed deadline is not such a big deal. SC is a complex project, and it takes at least 4-5 years to develop an AAA game, there is no way around it. Nine women do not make a baby in one month. Two years was too optimistic, I expect at least another year and a half until the game approaches something which could be considered "finished". In the meantime, "baby persistent universe" featuring a single playable system as seen in Gamescom demo should be out before the end of the year. It will be the point when the game comes together, instead of separate modules. We will be in a much better position to judge overall gameplay when that is released.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 01:04:40 pm by 666maslo666 »
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
It has all the hallmarks of that and yet again and again the accusations have proven disturbingly accurate.

I dont think any accusations were proven to be disturbingly accurate yet. Its all he said she said right now.

They did miss the deadline when it comes to Squadron 42, tough. However, missed deadline is not such a big deal. SC is a complex project, and it takes at least 4-5 years to develop an AAA game, there is no way around it. Nine women do not make a baby in one month. Two years was too optimistic, I expect at least another year and a half until the game approaches something which could be considered "finished". In the meantime, "baby persistent universe" featuring a single playable system as seen in Gamescom demo should be out before the end of the year. It will be the point when the game comes together, instead of separate modules. We will be in a much better position to judge overall gameplay when that is released.
Missing a deadline isn't a big deal, no.  Missing every deadline is.  Since the kickstarter, CIG have met precisely one deadline (the social module), and that's a deadline they set after they'd already missed it three times.  That in itself shows serious issues with management.

And the chances of them releasing a "baby PU" before the end of the year are utterly laughable.


Quote
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

Quote from: Adventure Pigeon, SA forums
"Hmmm... how do I calm the agitated masses and restore dignity to my game in this time of trouble"

*begins to type out the word 'Gamergate'*
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 02:36:10 pm by Aesaar »

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
On anonymous sources:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo

Escapist explains its sources, why Robert's response wasn't initially included, etcetera.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 02:07:39 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
On anonymous sources:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo

Escapist explains its sources, why Robert's response wasn't initially included, etcetera.
I love the comments to that.  "Anonymous sources have no credibility. Put your name on it if you want someone to believe you.".  Yeah, what the hell is wrong with these people, not being willing to throw their careers away over this? 

The Escapist vetted those sources.  That should be enough.  Unless of course, you think The Escapist itself is biased against SC.  The only evidence for that is... the original article.

So The Escapist is biased against SC because they published an article that was negative about SC.  Naturally, the only unbiased opinion is that SC is the second coming of Jesus Christ Roberts.  Anything else is trolling and clickbait.

Not a cult.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 02:34:07 pm by Aesaar »

 

Offline AtomicClucker

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
But but but Papal Infallibility!
Blame Blue Planet for my Freespace2 addiction.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Honestly from what I've seen.

Currently, what ship you get in game depends upon what package you buy. Better packages with better ships slaughter ships from cheaper packages. I've heard it's nigh impossible to win with an Aurora against a better ship.

There is a plan for players to earn UEC in-game, which they can use to buy better ships.  This is not in the beta.
What is in the game is the chance to REC, which allows you to save up an rent a ship for one week.

What is available now is purely a pay-to-win Early Access game with the promise that it will be fair when released but currently people are being screwed over and bled dry


I don't know how anyone can see what is available now and not call the whole thing a scam.  Did people complain about 150 dollar gold Timberwolves for Mechwarrior Online? Are those same people not complaining about Star Citizen's current pricing scheme? Pay to play and pay to win.  Compare it to any other free to play game and it will look bad. League of Legends rotates free heroes all the time. Other games allow you to progress but at a slower rate. Other games give an edge not a dominate edge in firepower. etcetera.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Calling it a game is generous.  ATM it's an online store selling a couple of tech demos and 900$ jpegs.

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Well once we deplete our aquifers out here, I know I can find some fresh haterade in this thread.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Well once we deplete our aquifers out here, I know I can find some fresh haterade in this thread.

And what describes your positive experience with Star Citizen right now?

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Honestly from what I've seen.

Currently, what ship you get in game depends upon what package you buy. Better packages with better ships slaughter ships from cheaper packages. I've heard it's nigh impossible to win with an Aurora against a better ship.

There is a plan for players to earn UEC in-game, which they can use to buy better ships.  This is not in the beta.
What is in the game is the chance to REC, which allows you to save up an rent a ship for one week.

What is available now is purely a pay-to-win Early Access game with the promise that it will be fair when released but currently people are being screwed over and bled dry


I don't know how anyone can see what is available now and not call the whole thing a scam.  Did people complain about 150 dollar gold Timberwolves for Mechwarrior Online? Are those same people not complaining about Star Citizen's current pricing scheme? Pay to play and pay to win.  Compare it to any other free to play game and it will look bad. League of Legends rotates free heroes all the time. Other games allow you to progress but at a slower rate. Other games give an edge not a dominate edge in firepower. etcetera.

The primary goal of buying SC now is to fund development, and the primary goal of playing SC now is to help devs test the game and provide feedback. Not to win, not even necessarily to have fun. I expect any scores to be reset after 1.0 version of PU goes online and ship selling to cease. If that does not happen, you will have a point. But not before. I dont see anything scammy in what Star Citizen is doing, on the contrary, I wish more of my favourite games offered me a way to contribute to their development like that, even before they release the final version. Its simple - if you dont like it, or cant stomach the risk of failure, dont buy it (or buy it after release). Your comparison with MWO is fundamentally flawed, since its not development versions that were pay to win, but after release.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Well once we deplete our aquifers out here, I know I can find some fresh haterade in this thread.

And what describes your positive experience with Star Citizen right now?

Is it out?  I only tried arena commander, and walked around my hangar a bit.  I'll let you know after they send me the email saying that Squadron 42 is ready and I have a chance to play.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Honestly from what I've seen.

Currently, what ship you get in game depends upon what package you buy. Better packages with better ships slaughter ships from cheaper packages. I've heard it's nigh impossible to win with an Aurora against a better ship.

There is a plan for players to earn UEC in-game, which they can use to buy better ships.  This is not in the beta.
What is in the game is the chance to REC, which allows you to save up an rent a ship for one week.

What is available now is purely a pay-to-win Early Access game with the promise that it will be fair when released but currently people are being screwed over and bled dry


I don't know how anyone can see what is available now and not call the whole thing a scam.  Did people complain about 150 dollar gold Timberwolves for Mechwarrior Online? Are those same people not complaining about Star Citizen's current pricing scheme? Pay to play and pay to win.  Compare it to any other free to play game and it will look bad. League of Legends rotates free heroes all the time. Other games allow you to progress but at a slower rate. Other games give an edge not a dominate edge in firepower. etcetera.

The primary goal of buying SC now is to fund development, and the primary goal of playing SC now is to help devs test the game and provide feedback. Not to win, not even necessarily to have fun. I expect any scores to be reset after 1.0 version of PU goes online and ship selling to cease. If that does not happen, you will have a point. But not before. I dont see anything scammy in what Star Citizen is doing, on the contrary, I wish more of my favourite games offered me a way to contribute to their development like that, even before they release the final version. Its simple - if you dont like it, or cant stomach the risk of failure, dont buy it (or buy it after release).

If the Beta was released for testing purposes, every player would have access to all the ships.  Players who bought higher priced ships would get them at release and other players would need to earn them.
Why would a game intentionally limit the testing of higher priced ships by denying them to most of the player base?

Most of the time you test a game, it's for balance purposes.  The cheap ship is completely outmatched by the higher priced ones. So how exactly are you testing for balance? 

Why aren't they testing the UEC earning progression?

Quote
Your comparison with MWO is fundamentally flawed, since its not development versions that were pay to win, but after release.

Oh yeah that makes a WORLD of difference. One game it's evil because it's released, one game it's saintly because it's "in development". What a load of horse****.
MWO was also a free game.

And do you honestly believe that store is going to go away once it's released?

Well once we deplete our aquifers out here, I know I can find some fresh haterade in this thread.

And what describes your positive experience with Star Citizen right now?

Is it out?  I only tried arena commander, and walked around my hangar a bit.  I'll let you know after they send me the email saying that Squadron 42 is ready and I have a chance to play.

So what Derek Smart game did you play?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 06:30:44 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline Falcon

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I think in order for Star Citizen to actually succeed Chis Robert needs to be separated from the project, maybe he can still be a creative consultant but the game needs to be placed into the hands of someone who can actually set goals and meet them while also knowing what is and isn't feasible.

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen

So what Derek Smart game did you play?

I didn't play any, I was just here when he was shopping around for Freespace rights.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen

If the Beta was released for testing purposes, every player would have access to all the ships.  Players who bought higher priced ships would get them at release and other players would need to earn them.
Why would a game intentionally limit the testing of higher priced ships by denying them to most of the player base?

Because they get more money that way? Duh. It is not for testing purposes only, it is also to fund the game. SC differs from other games because it is entirely backer-funded, and thats why even some borderline "money-grabbing" schemes are excused for them, as long as they dont continue into the final version. The more money they get, the better for the players, because it means they can cram more into the game. And as long as there are enough players to buy all the higher ships (which there are), it wont harm the testing efforts since every ship would get tested. Not to mention that there are often free flight weeks of specific ships, so that they do get tested by everyone. I only have a lousy Aurora, yet I have flown many other ships.

Quote

Most of the time you test a game, it's for balance purposes.  The cheap ship is completely outmatched by the higher priced ones. So how exactly are you testing for balance?


I dont get your point, could you rephrase? Cheap ships should be generally worse than pricier ships, that is what I call balanced.

Quote

Why aren't they testing the UEC earning progression?



What is that? PU is not released yet, its hard to test something which doesnt exist yet..

Quote
Oh yeah that makes a WORLD of difference. One game it's evil because it's released, one game it's saintly because it's "in development". What a load of horse****.
MWO was also a free game.


Its not horse****. Pay to win is bad because and only because it offers unearned advantages for some players. But there is no obligation to keep gameplay totaly fair during development. Who wins or loses is secondary. The only obligation during development is to test the game and to earn more money for development. If the game is still pay to win after it releases, then I will be angry, but not before.

Quote
And do you honestly believe that store is going to go away once it's released?

We will see.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 02:30:54 am by 666maslo666 »
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen

If the Beta was released for testing purposes, every player would have access to all the ships.  Players who bought higher priced ships would get them at release and other players would need to earn them.
Why would a game intentionally limit the testing of higher priced ships by denying them to most of the player base?

Because they get more money that way? Duh. It is not for testing purposes only, it is also to fund the game. SC differs from other games because it is entirely backer-funded, and thats why even some borderline "money-grabbing" schemes are excused for them, as long as they dont continue into the final version. The more money they get, the better for the players, because it means they can cram more into the game. And as long as there are enough players to buy all the higher ships (which there are), it wont harm the testing efforts since every ship would get tested. Not to mention that there are often free flight weeks of specific ships, so that they do get tested by everyone. I only have a lousy Aurora, yet I have flown many other ships.
This is like saying that winning the lottery means your money troubles are over because you have more money than you ever needed before.  And yet there are plenty of examples of people spending themselves into debt because they had no idea how to manage that kind of money.  It's a very similar situation.  In this case, SC's success has led to an insane amount of feature creep, and combined with CR's crazy ambition and arrogance (if sources are to be believed), it's made CIG incapable of locking down exactly what they want to do with their game. 

This isn't opinion.  CR is the one who, a month ago, said that it was "still early days" and that's why he couldn't talk about the game's economy.  3 years and $90M in, and the basics of how players transfer will money to each other haven't been pinned down.  For a game in which trading and taking jobs is meant to be a significant part of gameplay.  Again, CR has no idea what he wants to do with this game.  And that's because his runaway success with crowdfunding has convinced him he can just constantly increase the scope of his game again and again and again.

This is why a lot of people have lost confidence in the project as CIG got more and more money.  I was a hell of a lot more excited about SC when they hadn't even broken 10 million, because the game they had planned was actually achievable and could have been released by now.

This letter is so worth reading.  It supports everything we've said here and have been saying since this thread was started 3 months ago.


I never thought I'd be on the same side of an issue as Akalabeth.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 06:41:22 am by Aesaar »