Author Topic: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)  (Read 378185 times)

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Offline Turambar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Quote
Those that do pursue a refund based on all this drek? Most of them weren't cut out for what Star Citizen is destined to be, so it's win/win.
What the lol
He's right if you think about it. They are not cut out to be shat on their faces. They actually have some level of self-worth.

These poor unimaginative peasants can't conceive of a video game that's a little bigger than usual.
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Han Solo once said, I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit.

Like him, I can imagine quite a big game too. In fact, I can imagine a game so big, so immersive, so amazing, so incredible in all of its traits and characteristics, that in order to make it it would actually take a decade or more to do it, and a hell of a lot more than 90 million dollars.

Chris Roberts perhaps thought that he could substitute all those needs with a 20.000 dollar coffee machine. I'm a tad skeptical. There's only so much caffeine can do, even one as expensive as that.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Like him, I can imagine quite a big game too. In fact, I can imagine a game so big, so immersive, so amazing, so incredible in all of its traits and characteristics, that in order to make it it would actually take a decade or more to do it, and a hell of a lot more than 90 million dollars.
For me it sounds like they want the sandbox, trade, contract, corporation and industry of EVE, the space combat gameplay of Freespace, Wing Commander or some similar game, some stuff from E:D (never played it but it seemed to share some goals) and the FPS elements of whatever modern more or less open sci-fi shooter with vehicles there is (I haven't played any shooter for ages). All of that in AAA quality and somehow combined without perceived borders between the modes. Oh and wasn't this thing supposed to be moddable and people should be able to run their own servers? I wonder who can pay for that server infrastructure and the dev team to create a mod for it.
Yeah, I guess with 3-4 times the funding and another 4-5 years development time combined with really good management they might be able to get a game out that covers the basics of what they imagined and is significantly better than 3000AD. Add another 5 years and it might be getting really good.
Here goes scripting and copy paste coding
Freespace RTS Mod
Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Yeah but in 5 years it'll look dated and CR won't be satisfied so they'll have to start all their models over like they've already done once.  Lighting too, probably.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
An interesting little tangent: I wandered over to the Descent: Underground (the new Kickstarted game for those not in the know) forums, and as one would expect they had a thread going about this whole thing.  Someone there posted this screencap, apparently from Derek Smart's blog comments.  Note his claim that he "knows things" and that the Descent: Underground project is a "royal cluster****" ready to "collapse any day now."  Also note that yesterday, Descendent Studios opened up their pre-alpha builds to most higher backer tiers ahead of schedule, and that I was able to sit down and play it myself last night.  It is still very much in the pre-alpha phase, and the only part of the game available is random queue-matching multiplayer just for the sake of stress-testing, but it is already a fully-functional game.  I was flying several different ships, using updated versions of all the classic Descent weapons, and playing in multiple game modes.  It's already far closer to a fully-realized product than Star Citizen has ever been, or likely will ever be.  So while I think there is definitely something to this whole situation, as it is now well beyond a single person's unsourced accusations, let us not forget that Derek Smart has long been in the habit of peddling excessive amounts of bull****.

On a related note, apparently Wingman, the Descent: Underground project head, was banned from the official Star Citizen chat the other day for daring to answer people's questions about his own project.  Keep in mind that Wingman was originally an integral part of the CIG team and played a major role in the campaign's initial success; as far as I can tell he is still very well-liked amongst the SC community, many of whom signed on to support his own Kickstarter.  The ban was rescinded not too long after, but it really makes you question how the hell things are run in that community.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Yeah Derek Smart is probably full of **** on some occasions though I do have to question people just going in an ragging on the guy, especially for a 20 year old game.  Also while the Descent Underground guy is free to have an opinion, why is someone else dragging his opinion onto DS's blog?

And Battlecruiser 3000? Don't people know he's released like 6 games since then? Some of which scored moderately well (75-78 according to PC gamer)

Makes about as much sense as people giving Chris Robert's credit for Wing Commander.  Those games are old.

Didn't people learn from watching the new Star Wars? Just because a guy made a good thing 20 years ago doesn't mean the thing he makes today won't be ****.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
And Battlecruiser 3000? Don't people know he's released like 6 games since then? Some of which scored moderately well (75-78 according to PC gamer)
The games he released after are mostly just remakes of Battlecruiser 3000AD that fail to actually result in an actual game. His most recent project is an MMO (reusing the same ****ty assets from his last BC3000 remake) that appears to have had an all-time peak of... 116 players. 6 months ago. Apparently that has dropped, since then, to a peak of 2 players over the past twenty-four hours.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

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<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Yeah he seems to be a one-trick pony, trying to make the same game year after year and sometimes it's polished enough to get a decent rating but apparently the latest one, Line of Defense, is a bit garbage though it is in Early Access as well.

Personally if I ever get into game development I hope to make a different sort of game every time. Much like the guy who made Flotilla and Atom Zombie Smasher.

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
CitizenCon presentation shall begin in two hours. Lets gather round following URL and hear the word of our lord and savior Christ Roberts:

http://www.twitch.tv/StarCitizen
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
And Battlecruiser 3000? Don't people know he's released like 6 games since then? Some of which scored moderately well (75-78 according to PC gamer)
The games he released after are mostly just remakes of Battlecruiser 3000AD that fail to actually result in an actual game. His most recent project is an MMO (reusing the same ****ty assets from his last BC3000 remake) that appears to have had an all-time peak of... 116 players. 6 months ago. Apparently that has dropped, since then, to a peak of 2 players over the past twenty-four hours.

It should be noted that the 116 players was due to a listing error making the game free for all :D

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
It's life right now! Oh look it starts with his wife giving this speech on how she worked her ass off in this, bla bla bla.

"This is much more than a triple A game." Then she goes on on saying how it's about meaning and friendships and so on. ****ing hell, it's a cult.

"... if you really believe you're part of something bigger ..."

 

Offline newman

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Space Ship One's development cost 25 million dollars before it flew for the first time back in 2004. Cost of Star Citizen so far, 90 million $. So it takes 65 million less to actually go to space than to have a delayed, questionable-if-ever-playable space sim.

When they started crowdfunding they were going on how great it was that it allows them to avoid publishers and deliver the best game ever straight to the player. Well, CR demonstrated that sometimes, publishers keeping you inside certain limits can be a good thing. Particularly if you have no control over your ambitions and aren't on good speaking terms with reality :)
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Those numbers of CIG employees over time are pretty telling if true. It shows that work on SC really took off only in 2014 and later. I dont think the game is going to be completed anytime soon. Still needs at least two years. Doesnt bother me, good things take time, but it will provide plenty of ammo to detractors.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you are still retarded.

 
Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
It was unbelievable how they managed to go through so much Squadron 42 promo material without showing any indication that this will be a game where you fly a space fighter, fighting in space. As far as I can tell it's a very dodgy walking simulator set in some spare levels from the last 10 years of sci-fi shooters.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Space Ship One's development cost 25 million dollars before it flew for the first time back in 2004. Cost of Star Citizen so far, 90 million $. So it takes 65 million less to actually go to space than to have a delayed, questionable-if-ever-playable space sim.
I think that the thing was that Virgin Galactic didn't have 90 million $ on hand. :) If they did, they might have tried to go for an airliner-sized ship that would go to orbit and have a huge cargobay for lifting payloads along with the crew... I get a feeling that Roberts has much, much more money that he can handle management of. I do hope this merely delays the game, but I've seen projects completely bogged down by "too much of a good thing". Too much money, too large of a scope, too many people, too great expectations. Great things often started small and gradually got big, starting big is more likely to turn into an unmanageable mess.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
The fact the CIG are putting their military ships on sale say a lot about their financial situation. Those have always been their most popular ones.

Especially the Idris, which isn't even being sold in limited quantities like it was all the previous times it was available (well, except for the 5000$ pack).

They NEED money right now. If this sale goes badly (which it probably won't), they're done. They may be done anyway. There's only so much you can milk your cult for, probably why they also added a referral program at the same time. They need new money.

I say on sale, but really it's 2500USD. It only qualifies as a sale because it's cheaper than the individual packages.  Also, packages that were originally offered as "limited time only will never be sold again".


Gameplay-wise, there was nothing shown at CitizenCon that we didn't see at Gamescom.  Most of the presentation was CR talking about how SQ42 has 10 hours of cutscenes (in a 30 mission campaign), and then CIG trying to convince you that they invented motion capture.  It's really obvious that Chris would prefer to make movies.  He's thrown more money at SQ42 than at his ludicrously ambitious persistent universe.

And then at the end they showed the opening scene of Starlancer, but with shinier graphics (that either look a bit dated or uncanny valley [those faces]).


The Sabre/Vindicator/POTATO is a very nice-looking ship.  About time they made another good one to go alongside the Gladius.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 04:18:53 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline newman

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Gameplay-wise, there was nothing shown at CitizenCon that we didn't see at Gamescom.  Most of the presentation was CR talking about how SQ42 has 10 hours of cutscenes (in a 30 mission campaign), and then CIG trying to convince you that they invented motion capture.  It's really obvious that Chris would prefer to make movies.  He's thrown more money at SQ42 than at his ludicrously ambitious persistent universe.

He's always leaned more towards a cinematic than gameplay experience. This is what the Wing Commander games stood out for - immersion, story, feeling like you're in this sci fi movie; that was all fine, but gameplay? There were far, far better space shooter / sim games out there at all times when it comes to sheer gameplay / flight model. However he still made games that were kinda fun in the end.

The problem is, the success of crowdfunding and all that money SC managed to gather pretty much had an effect of supercharging his natural tendencies. Gameplay is obviously last on his list of priorities; in a situation where many people are complaining about the pretty bad arena dogfighting module, star marine being endlessly delayed and what is out there is a very small buggy mess, and pretty much in a state of vaporware, and generally calling SC "the best spaceship hangar sim ever made", he's throwing money at actors, hiring linguists to make new languages for the game, and other flash vs substance stuff like that.

There will be a point when his "whale" supporters that are throwing thousands of $ on his spaceships will begin asking for refunds one by one, and this thing will spiral out of control.

I'll be playing Elite: Dangerous in the mean time. It may not have a bunch of well known actors in it, it may not be promising to deliver everything and the kitchen sink at once, but right now this game is surviving based on it's own sales, and that of it's upcoming expansion that will open up planetary landing to us, and bring other stuff to the table - it's not surviving based on soap bubble promises and offering me spaceships for thousands of dollars. It also lets me hop into my exploration ship and go explore a 1:1, 400 billion star galaxy. And while it's not without it's faults, it ticks many boxes, has a realistic yet ambitious scope, and I believe that after a few expansions it will be way closer to the kind of game Chris Roberts described when they started Star Citizen than SC will ever get. And when I fly with my HOTAS, it does not make my HOTAS act like it was a mouse. That's kinda nice too, arena commander's flight model is atrocious.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 04:08:49 am by newman »
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Col. Fishguts

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
I don't want to watch through hours of CR droning about how everything is great.
Is there a good summary somewhere as to what has been shown and what the current release targets for Star Marine / Baby PU are?
Also, how accurate were Derek Smart's predictions about the presentation?
"I don't think that people accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. I think it makes people terribly uncomfortable. It seems like religion and myth were invented against that, trying to make sense out of it." - D. Lynch

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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
AFAICT, he was 100% right. But I would also like to see some reliable summary of what went down. Could only watch first few minutes before sleeping of boredom.

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Derek Smart might be taking legal action over Star Citizen
Worry not, Spoon, Hades and I, some foul and skeptic minded people, managed to watch the whole thing and kept our wits about by mocking everything (cause its fun!). Here's a brief rundown from what I gathered in the chat log.

  • Flowers for Sandi
  • Millions of kilometers of space
  • Immersive
  • Mostly rehashed Crusader v0 gameplay demo
  • Immersive star map where Alpha Centauri is not the closest star to Sol
  • "Private" "lounge" for your friends to hang out and drink immersive alcoholic beverages (and fishtanks)
  • Saitek getting on the money train with custom branded joysticks
  • Trapezoidal marketing referral bonus program (get 5 referrals and get a bigger fish tank, get 10 and get a gold skin for a ship!)
  • Actually not bad looking fighter (SabrePotato)
  • Immersive
  • Squadron 42, wwwhaaat???
  • Independence day and/or 9/11 style speech intro cutscene by Gary Oldman set in a Space Parliament
  • Gary Oldman still talking
  • Gary Oldman barely blinking
  • Gary Oldman still talking raspily
  • A-List Hollywood actor list
  • And Sandi
  • Amazing facial feature technology including blood flow, wrinkle maps, pupil dilation and other subtle features needed for a space sim
  • Immersive
  • Tactical combat everywhere! Even on the ground!
  • Ships on SALE!!!!
  • 90 million page script (Still not as long as BP aaaaayyyyy)
  • 120 hours of mo cap recorded, 10 hours kept for the game
  • Actors being paid to praise the mo cap
  • 66 day shooting schedule
  • Immersive
  • Huge 250m Frigate
  • Starlancer opening recreation with an amazing array of UK accents
  • Corridor walking simulator
  • Sitting in a briefing room and hearing the history of your ship simulator
  • The number 2016 was seen, may indicate years until release(?????)
  • Immersive birthday cake for SC brought out, happy birthday is cringly sung
  • Chris Roberts can't cut a cake
  • Immersion

Shout out to Hades for those image links (that first one was an actual image from the stream)