[Bryan See]

I hope he doesn't when Star Citizen is released.

[Aesaar]

Nah. Elite is a much simpler game than SC. For one thing, you are glued to your seat. And all of the aspects of E:D are quite simplistic. This is not just my opinion, it is the prevailing opinion of the playerbase. The common saying to describe E:D is "mile wide, inch deep".

No, at this moment, E:D is a simpler game than what SC wants to be.  There's a difference.  You're comparing an actual game that exists to a dream (a common thing citizens do when talking about E:D).  There is absolutely no guarantee that SC will deliver on that dream, and it most certainly hasn't done so yet.  What E:D is right now is a far, far more complete and elaborate game than what SC is right now.  This is not debatable.  It isn't opinion.  If you think otherwise you are utterly delusional and there's no more point arguing with you than there would be arguing with a young-earth creationist.

E:D is an actual game.  Maybe a bit bare, but it's a very solid framework onto which they can add content fairly easily.  SC is a tech demo.  They can't add content to it yet because most of their gameplay systems aren't even finished.  This includes hugely important core ones.

E:D is not a bad game at all, but lets just say that I would be very disappointed if Star Citizen was released but resembled something like Elite: Dangerous. If I had to choose between a simple SC that is already released, and complex SC that takes its time to develop, I choose the latter. People did not pledge >$100 million to get yet another ordinary space sim. And if there is one thing money cannot buy easily, it is faster development. Nine women wont make a kid in one month.

I really wouldn't be surprised if E:D incorporates this before SC releases.  What you really don't seem to get is that E:D is a lot closer to achieving the SC dream than SC itself is.

[Akalabeth Angel]

So that holiday stream coincided with another ship sale? Some 2-3 weeks after the last sale? And by sale I mean 1250-2500 USD a pop.
Limited quantities, limited time. Honestly seems a little disgusting. 

Though this seems to be the season where every webpage is begging for money, whether it be wikipedia. mozilla, boardgamegeek, etcetera.

Derek Smart put up a new blog but it's password locked, dunno why.

[Kszyhu]

I really wouldn't be surprised if E:D incorporates this before SC releases.  What you really don't seem to get is that E:D is a lot closer to achieving the SC dream than SC itself is.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. EVA/SpaceLegs are at least a year out, as the content of Horizons is broadly known and doesn't contain it. Multicrew is supposed to be in, though with no ability to walk around or go outside and breath in space air. SC has EVA already, although in non-persistent world.

[Aesaar]

I really wouldn't be surprised if E:D incorporates this before SC releases.  What you really don't seem to get is that E:D is a lot closer to achieving the SC dream than SC itself is.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. EVA/SpaceLegs are at least a year out, as the content of Horizons is broadly known and doesn't contain it. Multicrew is supposed to be in, though with no ability to walk around or go outside and breath in space air. SC has EVA already, although in non-persistent world.

Star Citizen is almost certainly more than a year out.

[Kszyhu]

True, though I expect SQ42 to be released in 2016, no matter the quality. It won't be a MMO, but it should resemble a finished game (with terrible writing, if Wing Commander movie is an indication of Roberts' storytelling abilities).

[Lorric]

Arguing SC depth vs E:D depth would only be fair if you argued what SC aspires to be vs what E:D aspires to be. Elite: Dangerous is not finished. Though you'll have to pay extra to add on the extra things as they are released, some things are free content, some things are paid expansions. They just released Horizons. But I imagine one day there'll be an Elite: Dangerous Complete Edition available to buy if all goes to plan for them, which will also probably be a lot cheaper than buying everything as it comes out. It's also probably impossible to argue for what Elite: Dangerous' ultimate aspirations are, as they are deliberately keeping it quiet. We don't know what role such things as alien races and the blocked off systems will play in the future.

In terms of what each game is right now, it's no contest. It's kind of like imagining there are two mansions being built, one is fit to live in and has plenty of rooms complete and ready for use as the building work on the rest of the mansion continues smoothly on schedule, while the other is barely fit to live in never mind do anything else in and the building work has been beset by numerous delays and problems.

[StarSlayer]

End of the fiscal year, everybody needs to make the extra monies so the books look good and hopefully in the black.

So long as E:D is making money to support keeping devs in seats, it can keep expanding and delivering more content which will in turn keep consumers playing and investing.  SC so far is dependent on folks throwing money at a project that like it or not has engendered a lot of skepticism.  In the long run regular stable deliverables will keep that revenue stream alive and vigorous compared to promises and JPEGs.  Not to mention if both projects fail at least with E:D you actually have something in hand for your money.

[General Battuta]

ED is in my favorite phase of game development, the phase in which thousands of players are in a live environment and the devs can actually iterate design based on the behavior of actual players.

SC seems determined to build massive vertical 'slices' (more like pits) and ram them out into the world without any mass-scale testing in the caustic bath of network issues, abusive goons, and easily bored casuals who don't have any interest in enhancing their immersion by cleaning up coffee cup rings and physically simulated lines of coke on the couches of a $20,000 preordered starliner.

[Kszyhu]

I think there's a downside to E:D's situation though. All deficiencies are plainly visible, and there is a fair amount of criticism, at least some of it valid, IMO. After all, unfavourable reviews won't go away even if/when the game improves. Oh, and BTW, CIG announced some kind of planetary landings on procedurally generated planets. What a coincidence...

[Axem]

easily bored casuals who don't have any interest in enhancing their immersion by cleaning up coffee cup rings and physically simulated lines of cokes on the couches of a $20,000 preordered starliner.

Hey bro,

first

its only a $19,990 starliner (personalized invite referral pricing, pleb)

second

that coke line engine has been in the works for years. They could've just taken the same bored and limited middleware that GTA V did, but CIG built their custom drug consumption engine from the ground up, to ensure that the immersion from doing coke off of a 500,000 poly per cushion PBR couches with real time memory foam deformation and modeled thread seams is done the right and immersive way.

(btw who wants to join my tony montana clan)

[666maslo666]

I think there's a downside to E:D's situation though. All deficiencies are plainly visible, and there is a fair amount of criticism, at least some of it valid, IMO. After all, unfavourable reviews won't go away even if/when the game improves. Oh, and BTW, CIG announced some kind of planetary landings on procedurally generated planets. What a coincidence...

Yup. Trailer:

Gameplay:

[Aesaar]

I think there's a downside to E:D's situation though. All deficiencies are plainly visible, and there is a fair amount of criticism, at least some of it valid, IMO. After all, unfavourable reviews won't go away even if/when the game improves. Oh, and BTW, CIG announced some kind of planetary landings on procedurally generated planets. What a coincidence...

Yup. Trailer:

Gameplay:

I can do that in E:D right now.

The_E literally yesterday:



Seriously, I think the only place SC is ahead of E:D is in letting you control your character.  Hell, E:D, in spite of having you character glued to the ship seat, has a better looking character model than SC does.  Even lets you pick your pilot's gender.  SC's still a sausagefest two years after the hangar release.  Though I suppose that doesn't matter since the community and moderation team managed to drive a lot of women away by being insanely ****ty (not a joke).

And even if this wasn't the case, CIG's problem isn't that they can't deliver shiny videos and images.  They're pretty good at doing that.  Their problems are with actually making a playable, stable, fun game that delivers on the promises those videos make.


Also, kinda funny:

[My game] has the most awkward, ugly, unusable interface I've ever seen.

Glad he finally noticed.  His insanely awkward and frustrated attempts to play his own game were easily the best part of the stream.

I think there's a downside to E:D's situation though. All deficiencies are plainly visible, and there is a fair amount of criticism, at least some of it valid, IMO. After all, unfavourable reviews won't go away even if/when the game improves. Oh, and BTW, CIG announced some kind of planetary landings on procedurally generated planets. What a coincidence...

This is very true.  Because E:D is a game, it gets judged as the imperfect game it is.  It can't hide behind "it's an alpha".  SC is a dream, and it gets judged as the perfect game the backers imagine it'll be, not as what it is.  You can see maslo doing this with every post he makes. 

This is why CIG delivering stuff is actually kinda risky for them.  The more the game takes shape, the harder it gets for backers to reconcile that shape with their dreams.  Example: People are already getting very, very angry about "griefing" (basically others doing anything they don't like, including shooting at them).  How pissed are they going to be if CIG says the "griefers" aren't doing anything wrong?


It's also very funny that CR is so desperately trying to one-up Braben.  It's so predictable the SA thread called this a week ago.

[Sushi]

The part of the second video that made me most jealous (from an E:D player perspective) was the seamless quantum jump to the station (around 0:20-0:33). Really tired of the drop-from-supercruise transition and the teleport-popping and freezing that comes with it.

The rest looked almost *exactly* like what I was playing last night. The base was a different design, and there was no atmospheric eyecandy, but otherwise yeah, you can do that in Elite right now.

[Kszyhu]

I'm not sure how much of this freeze can be removed, tbh. I have seen some improvements since Horizons, but it's still noticeable. SC can load all the data during the jump animation, and there's no need to establish the connection "on the fly". SC alpha, as well as other offline tech demos, has no problem with that because of everyone (16 people for now) being connected to the same server at the startup. I wonder how it will change in real-life conditions.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Can you land anywhere on those planets or only at bases?

I also find it interesting that immediately outside the landing area, the planet loses definition. It goes from fairly detailed rocky area to basically rolling amorphous hills. the landing area is rocky and jagged, the area surrounding is all rounded as if by water erosion.

 So is it a procedural planet with a hand-built landing location? The planet just window dressing for the park? Or can you land anywhere you want and get out? What happens if you land, get in another guy's ship and take off? Does your ship get swallowed by the lesser LODs?

Also, kinda funny:

[My game] has the most awkward, ugly, unusable interface I've ever seen.

Glad he finally noticed.  His insanely awkward and frustrated attempts to play his own game were easily the best part of the stream.

Also kind of deliberately dishonest, since he wasn't talking about the interface in general but specifically the chat interface.


Though nice gameplay demo huh?
First he had problems launching the game. Then he ran around the station for 10 minutes. Then he got in his fighter, and his joystick didn't work so switched to a gamepad. Then he jumped to another system and the game crashed. Bravo.

Also why is there sound in space? Doesn't the game use muffled, BSG-style gunshots? Or am I wrong? Yet when he was on the deck of the station, he could hear his ship's ladder extending and so forth. Personally if its' going for realism then a BSG-style sound makes the most sense but whatever.

[Phantom Hoover]

If Elite's a mile wide and an inch deep, Star Citizen's Nemo.

[Ghostavo]

Awkward moment is awkward.

[Akalabeth Angel]

You can watch him playing the whole bit here at 2hours and 10 minutes. Doesn't seem to allow time markers in this forum
the rest:

[666maslo666]

Though I suppose that doesn't matter since the community and moderation team managed to drive a lot of women away by being insanely ****ty (not a joke).

Are you reading the same article as I am?

Lesnick took the time to point out he has no reason to believe Lauresh was banned simply for being a woman, but it was due to the numerous flagging with profane messages such as "mother ****ing troll" and "stop this person from ****ting up the thread already." The steps the moderator took that were improper were, as previously stated, giving a week long ban over the 24 hour ban due to CIG striking a previous ban from Lauresh. According to Lesnick's post, the thread also should not have been closed due to the lack of "toxic behavior" that the original post and intent held.

Boo hoo, a Goon troll got treated as the troll he is. Cry me a river. Women only group will be allowed, despite it being a little controversial. Star Citizen is welcoming to women and minorities.  But not to Goon trolls.

It's also very funny that CR is so desperately trying to one-up Braben.  It's so predictable the SA thread called this a week ago.

It was known for much longer than a week that procedural generation demo is coming, doesnt take a genius to figure it out.