Author Topic: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds  (Read 31586 times)

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Offline The E

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
What are the differences between HDR and PBR (acronyms kill me) if they are at all comparable?

HDR = High Dynamic Range. This is something games have been doing for a few years now. It's a technique to simulate the way the eye reacts to contrasts; before it became practical to do this, games had to use a very linear lighting model. Take a look at this video, and see how the contrast changes when the sun is in view.

PBR = Physically Based Rendering. This is a very new technique that allows realtime renderings to be more accurate to physical reality. Right now, FSO's rendering is a very approximate affair; it's using algorithms to produce results that almost look like real light, but are fast enough to be executed in realtime. These algorithms have a few flaws however. For example, if you look at the total amount of light a surface receives, and sum up the total amount of light it reflects, you will frequently find that the reflected amount is larger than what it received originally; This is of course completely absurd.
PBR lighting algorithms fix this by actually taking energy conservation into account. This has a whole range of further effects, chief among them the ability for texturers to create materials that actually look like physical materials. Right now, every surface in FSO looks the same. With PBR, this can be changed so that some surfaces look like metal, others like plastic, whatever the artist wants to do. Look this post by Swifty to see what this means.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Since The E covered the definitions of HDR and PBR so well, I'll just go over your list real quick:

- PBR build is an improvement from the SCP build (ie the nightly ones) so everything SCP engine can do, PBR engine can do it too
Well, they're both under the umbrella of the Source Code Project; pabst_bleu_ribbon is just a separate branch from the master branch that Nightly builds are made from. But, basically, yes: the PBR branch should generally add to the features in master.

- this improvement allows use of reflectance maps which are not originally in the assets (mvps) so one has to add them like Shivan Hunter's one
One doesn't have to add reflectance maps; the PBR builds should continue to work with non-PBR assets.

- any mod which make use of such modified asset can take advantage of the PBR improvements
Yup! Probably not worth doing at this stage, though, since the PBR branch is still very early; exactly what the asset pipeline for PBR will be is still indeterminate. If a modder goes through the trouble of making PBR-specific assets right now, they'll probably need to be remade (or at least tweaked) once the PBR branch advances further.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Jackho

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
All right!

This time everything's clear to my mind, thank you people and also thanks for the youtube link although I should've google it myself in the first place.
I'm very pleased especially since the last AdmiralRalwood's build makes rendering as I expected it to be, big up!

Now last question, I used to add -bloom_intensity and -no_emissive_light parameters but now these don't modify anything (at least I can see nothing changed), so I guess they're not useful anymore. Can you plz confirm that or not?
A+
Jack H. : "Well... There's much more to check than six..."

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
-bloom_intensity currently does nothing in PBR builds beyond turning it on and off (IIRC, any non-zero value is treated as... 60? 70? Something in that ballpark). Not sure about -no_emissive_light, but it does seem like the sort of thing PBR wouldn't use.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Vrets

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Your download link is too trollish for my computer to handle. I cannot download no matter how many times I click (either one) of the blue download links.

What is wrong with my computer...you most make an update

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
****, I'm up to 100% of monthly bandwidth again. Box really needs to let downloaders know that's what the problem is. Dunno how that happened, I haven't gotten nearly as many downloads on stuff recently as when I release them... unless Box Sync counts toward bandwidth but even then idk.

If anyone has the file and wants to mirror it on FSMods or some other site that would be great.

 

Offline Vrets

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Oh, the tragedy. I will never experience the glory of PBR reflexotron maps.

This is a clear sign that I need to change my life. Hit the gym, stop drinking, start an ultimate frisbee team, etc

 

Offline ngld

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
I noticed that you can still download the file through box's mobile site.
I've uploaded it here: https://cloud.gruenprint.de/dl/hlp/pbr_mvps.7z

 

Offline Vrets

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
I noticed that you can still download the file through box's mobile site.
I've uploaded it here: https://cloud.gruenprint.de/dl/hlp/pbr_mvps.7z

You're a true hero, thanks. At last I can share in the PBR reflexivity experience.

 

Offline The E

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
:bump:

since PBR has made its way into nightly builds, let's get some more eyes on this:

If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
:yes: :yes: :yes: looking sharp!

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Is there any of this available through the freespace installer default executables installed ?





Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
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Offline The E

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
No. The builds that do this are the current nightly ones (which we do not put on the installer for obvious reasons), and the textures necessary are part of the mod linked to in the first post (assuming the link is still up, if it isn't, drop a note here and I'll reupload it somewhere else)
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
Will do. Appreciate the prompt response :yes:
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
So quick question, how many of the ships are currently PBR "ready", as in, sufficient quality wise? 10%? 20%?

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
So quick question, how many of the ships are currently PBR "ready", as in, sufficient quality wise? 10%? 20%?
Well, first define "sufficient quality wise". None of these ships, for example, have -ao maps.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
-ao maps... those are the ambient occlusion maps right? Ahh, I can see loads of obvious problems stemming from the very existence of those.... but nevermind that wasn't my question. My question was concerning PBR maps. Obviously ships will have to have a new set of maps that will deal with metals and whatnots in a very different manner than the previous diffusion maps. Or are you guys planning some naughty shortcuts here?

 

Offline DahBlount

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
You'll need to tailor and mask the parts of the textures in different ways to get proper results. This is because PBR treats Dielectrics and Metals differently. I'm actually working on a guide for it atm, should be ready for a preliminary release soon.
<Axem> yet still more insightful than #hard-light

<Axem> jad2.23 will just be cat videos

<DahBlount> So
<DahBlount> JAD2.2 is like that
<Axem> maybe
<Axem> it can be whatever you like!
<DahBlount> A Chocolate Sundae?
<Axem> sure

My models: GTF Gilgamesh - GTD Nuadha [Redesigning] - Ningirama [WIP] - GTG Zephyrus

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
I would be interested in getting a small team motivated to work through the current MediaVPs assets so that we can begin working toward a PBR release for when PBR hits a final build release.
Cutscene Upgrade Project - Mainhall Remakes - Between the Ashes
Youtube Channel - P3D Model Box
Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
Freespace Upgrade Project See what's happening.

 

Offline DahBlount

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Re: [RELEASE] shiny spaceships: some reflectivity maps for PBR builds
I would be interested in getting a small team motivated to work through the current MediaVPs assets so that we can begin working toward a PBR release for when PBR hits a final build release.
I'd be down for that.
<Axem> yet still more insightful than #hard-light

<Axem> jad2.23 will just be cat videos

<DahBlount> So
<DahBlount> JAD2.2 is like that
<Axem> maybe
<Axem> it can be whatever you like!
<DahBlount> A Chocolate Sundae?
<Axem> sure

My models: GTF Gilgamesh - GTD Nuadha [Redesigning] - Ningirama [WIP] - GTG Zephyrus