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game is available now
can't ****ing wait to get home
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What do you mean it's available now? It's 10:40 am EST.
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it's not 10:40 AM EST on my korean VPN (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smug.gif)
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it's not 10:40 AM EST on my korean VPN (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-smug.gif)
(http://b-sides.ch/inspiration/wp-content/uploads/back-to-the-future-med.jpg)
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Ah OK.
I have until midnight to get the damned 16-bit application bug fixed.
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anyone who wants to unlock the game now http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3448836&pagenumber=165#post401239284
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Does that actually work? Bioware said it unlocked at 12:01am EST, not local time. They made a point of this since that 9pm for the west coast.
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Does that actually work? Bioware said it unlocked at 12:01am EST, not local time. They made a point of this since that 9pm for the west coast.
yeah it's working for people, and it worked for me for bf3, and they've gone on record saying they won't ban for it so uh - give it a spin i guess!
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Well, first I need to finish the workday. Then I need to get the damned thing to run at all - I'm getting the 'unsupported 16 bit application' issue on my W7/64 machine. Then I can move to South Korea.
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uh oh D:
did you get that on the demo too? i also have w7/64 and i don't want to get hung up on a stupid error :(
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No, I did not. I figured at first that it was just still encrypted or something like that. Went looking, and other people were seeing a release date checker, not just failure.
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Maybe some stupid compatibility mode setting somewhere?
The "unsupported 16 bit app" thing is an error one normally sees only with reeeeaaaalllyyyy old DOS programs.
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I remember this error prevented me to play the PC version of FF7. Then again, that's a 15 years old game.
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It's something going wrong with the installation apparently. It doesn't seem to be all Win7-64 installs, but I'm not the only one. Got a list of things to try.
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*grumble grumble* stupid machines r bad melodrama *grumble grumble*
I don't know if that was supposed to be Luddite or Anit-Luddite
Tell me you're lying.
Wut? I was referencing Trashman's link.
The whole crux of the series is that "synthetic lifeforms r bad, reapers kill!" and that the reapers aren't some terror from beyond that destroys for no other reason than it's what they do. I am SICK TO ****ING DEATH of genuine badass bad guys being pussified into a sympathetic character. I want some genuine Black Hats who do what they do because they are genuinely evil or at least give me a plot that makes sense. You absolutely can NOT change the character of the villian of your series from mass murderer to savior at the last god damned minute. It's like making a movie about Jeffery Dahmer and revealing that the people he ate were going to destroy the world and that's why he ate them.
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all right you ass butts here i go
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day 1 dlc check
is battuta a consumer whore?
battuta is all kinds of whore
take my ten bux
e: when the **** did earth alliance space get like as big as council space, did udina do that
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i shall be avoiding this thread like the plague until the moment i procure and play the game.
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.....Unsupported 16 bit application. No release date checker.
This is looking worse and worse.
Uninstalled Origin, reinstalling now.
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....It was ****ing Securom.
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Ha, I knew it was Securom.
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It's always Securom, they apparently wouldn't know competent programming if it came up and bit them on their ass.
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8 hours in and this game is pretty good, the opening couple missions do it no favors at all but it opens up nicely
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Shouldn't we make a new thread/change the thread name now that the demo is old news ?
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Shouldn't we make a new thread/change the thread name now that the demo is old news ?
I HAVE DONE AS YOU REQUESTED. (ok actually I just did a split.)
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uh okay
please don't break the correct spelling in the thread title
emily wong, patron saint of vanguards, watches over us
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Amen, brother. Emily Wong is badass.
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there are a lot of things i like in this game so far but
this whole EDI plot is not one of them
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Hmm... being in Europe, I wonder if that proxy would work; the game doesn't unlock for like two more days. Anyone else from Europe tested it and got it to work?
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I enjoyed how they started me at level 30 with all my powers from ME2. Adds that nice bit of continuity, even if the face didn't totally survive character conversion
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Hmm... being in Europe, I wonder if that proxy would work; the game doesn't unlock for like two more days. Anyone else from Europe tested it and got it to work?
I'm French and it worked like a charm yesterday.
I enjoyed how they started me at level 30 with all my powers from ME2. Adds that nice bit of continuity, even if the face didn't totally survive character conversion
Same here, sounds like the whole face conversion thing is broken. I prefer the standard ME3 female face to the ME2 one anyway.
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i tried to punch khaleesa al jilani and she had self-defense training and we got in a fistfight (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-shepface.gif)
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i tried to punch khaleesa al jilani and she had self-defense training and we got in a fistfight (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-shepface.gif)
There are already videos of the various options in Utube about this ... :)
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i tried to punch khaleesa al jilani and she had self-defense training and we got in a fistfight (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-shepface.gif)
There are already videos of the various options in Utube about this ... :)
oh okay, since the entire game is on youtube (it is), we can just close the thread and not talk about it any more
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i'm just going to steal this post
(http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-ohdear.png) Grunt (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-ohdear.png)
(http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-black101.gif) Grunt (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-black101.gif)
(http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-tviv.gif) Grunt (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-tviv.gif)
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That gets my vote as the best smiley to ever exist.
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25 hours in and this game is...actually impressing me quite a lot. the sense of scale both in terms of the physical gameplay space and the narrative is really well done.
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Freakin infected me now. I knew I should not have started during the week. I'll get you illusive man i'll get you. :banghead:
Looking forward to see how diplomacy plays out between the races and how much weight my decisions carry on it. Dialogue between the characters is interesting, and the enviornments/graphics are A+.
I hope I stumble across Legion somewhere. Say what you want here. I probably won't be back until I finish!
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So I'm told that you can't punch out al-Jilani this time. At least without some effort.
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i tried to punch khaleesa al jilani and she had self-defense training and we got in a fistfight (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-shepface.gif)
There are already videos of the various options in Utube about this ... :)
oh okay, since the entire game is on youtube (it is), we can just close the thread and not talk about it any more
Jesus F Bananas, I was just informing. You know, you might want to know the alternatives (without playing the game?)
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25 hours in and this game is...actually impressing me quite a lot. the sense of scale both in terms of the physical gameplay space and the narrative is really well done.
That can't possibly be true. I mean, according to BSN the game is worse than DA2. You most be a biodrone forssurrr
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i have to agree with battman, the game is really well done so far.
Except for that snooki-like reporter on the citadel.
CERBERUS MUST DIE! CERBERUS MUST DIE! CERBERUS MUST DIE! CERBERUS MUST DIE!
If you dont get it, you will. Soon enough anyhow.
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The metacritic reviews are amusing to peruse.
In order of frequency, here are the different review scores:
1. 10/10
2. 0/10
3. 2/10
4. 1/10
5. everything else
Some of those 0s cite the gay scenes, the endings, "THE WRITING!!!!", Origin, the day-1 DLC, etc. as reason to award a 0. Some even admit to pirating the game and still award it a 0. Honestly, even if the story ended up being horrible 0/10 by visual novel standards, it would still get a 5/10 for the multiplayer and gameplay alone.
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Metacritic bombing over non-game issues is nothing new, and Bioware really hasn't don't themselves any favors whatsoever in that department.
I'm holding off on judgement on the plot, but so far it is not looking good. The core gameplay is much improved (though **** you Alliance for taking all my weapons and armor and then making me buy new ones.) While you're shooting things at least - the side quests have plenty of issues.
Multiplayer is still fun, if now stupidly imbalanced between enemy factions. Quarian Infiltrators are basically "I win" vs the Geth on gold, and the reaper faction is vastly more dangerous then the other two for the same rewards.
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This is one of those games where you're just going to have to grin and bear the Reapers' utter failure to use their tactical capabilities. Really any time you're sharing a horizon with a Reaper you should be dead, lasered through the face by one of the hull weapons (never mind the main ship-to-ship guns). but hey whatever
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This is one of those games where you're just going to have to grin and bear the Reapers' utter failure to use their tactical capabilities. Really any time you're sharing a horizon with a Reaper you should be dead. but hey whatever
Oddly enough EDI lampshades this by wondering why the Reapers seem to be holding back their forces during the final assault.
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The metacritic reviews are amusing to peruse.
In order of frequency, here are the different review scores:
1. 10/10
2. 0/10
3. 2/10
4. 1/10
5. everything else
Some of those 0s cite the gay scenes, the endings, "THE WRITING!!!!", Origin, the day-1 DLC, etc. as reason to award a 0. Some even admit to pirating the game and still award it a 0. Honestly, even if the story ended up being horrible 0/10 by visual novel standards, it would still get a 5/10 for the multiplayer and gameplay alone.
Extremists are always morons. The game pisses me off to no neds, and I still wouldn't dream of giving it such a redicolously low score. At the very WORST it deserves an average score. But I'd never give it a 10/10 or 9/10. Doesnt' deserve that either.
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This is one of those games where you're just going to have to grin and bear the Reapers' utter failure to use their tactical capabilities. Really any time you're sharing a horizon with a Reaper you should be dead, lasered through the face by one of the hull weapons (never mind the main ship-to-ship guns). but hey whatever
As far as I can tell, the whole plot is an exercise in passing around the idiot ball.
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Well, it's a far more competent effort than Dragon Age II by far.
Really I have only three complaints the first is:
Interviews said that multiplayer wasn't going to be mandatory for getting the best endings in singleplayer. However, the only way to increase galactic readiness is to play multi otherwise war assets are at half strength. The best endings require a war asset rating around 5,000 or so and the cap seems to be around 6,000 so... you can do the math.
The other two issues are SPOILERIFIC:
Kai Leng. I'm probably a bit poisoned to the character because of hearing how bad the novels with him in it are. But it seems like a case where the writers and artists are trying too hard to make him some sort of badass. He would have been better if introduced in ME2 as someone shadowing you for the Illusive Man.
My main issue with him is on Thessia where it's supposed to be this massive defeat but it's really just him and a gunship and other than act of plot I would have had him. If say he planted explosives throughout the whole building and it came down on you during the fight while the gunship was doing a strike it would have seemed like less of a chump thing. They needed to establish better that yes, he had total control of the situation and you were completely screwed.
The second major issue with the plot:
The damn kid! I was fine with the cheap shot emotional death. But the dream sequences just took you out of the game. Shepard turning in bed hearing their voices would have done the same thing without trying to seem "artsy" and cheap at the same time.
But the nail in the coffin was having the Catalyst look like the damn kid. I'd have been happier if, in fact, it was a conversation with Harbinger affected by the Crucible. It'd also have been nice to see them using it as a relay from darkspace, summoning the rest of the Reapers to Earth and hammering home that this really was the last chance to stop them. Having a Reaper controller AI on the citadel just seems like it introduces too many questions that they don't answer unlike vigil. It still could have been handled fine, but just about any representation other than the kid as "your collected guilt" would have been better.
This seems like Square-Enix crap.
Okay I lied, one other big issue bugging me:
The Normandy crash landing thing also made no sense. Unless the Crucible is damaged and going to blow Earth up why the hell would Joker FTL? If Shepard got a comm through to him that firing it might hurt EDI I could see Joker going rogue, taking the ship out of the battle and trying to run away irrationally. A line or two of dialog after Shep's decision could have covered this. As it is, it felt like the ending of Knights of the Old Republic II.
It feels like the Normandy re-seeding humanity was supposed to be for the worst possible ending, and proper "Shepard's burial on Earth" and "Shepard's funeral on Earth and oh wait here s/he comes!" endings were supposed to be made but left out.
Honestly my main plot complaints are the Square-Enix crap Kai Leng trying to be badass
and the kid as the personification of Shepard's guilt
. Overall though it wasn't as intrusive as the nonsensical fights in Deus Ex: Human Revolution or its nonsensical end fight.
I do have a few intellectual issues with some directions the new writers took though:
Basically individualistic AIs being viewed as inherently superior with the Geth being re-written to be like EDI. The most interesting thing about the Geth was how they were totally different cognitively but could still be reasoned with. The way the writers treated AI left a bad taste in my mouth, especially as a Shepard hell-bent on preserving *ALL* sapience. There should have been more of a moral dilemma around letting Legion re-write the Geth to his template based on "doesn't this go against your own ability to determine your path as an overall species that you originally planned?" Which is also why the 'renegade' ending seemed like the only proper moral option.
So, one bad design decision. One WTF? thing, but overall my complaints are more issues of some of the directions they went with some things which are utterly balanced out by: Tuchanka and Rannoch pure awesomeness
.
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Extremists are always morons.
FDAA warning
this post contains nearly the lethal dose of irony
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I'm abut fourteen hours in, and I'm mildly impressed. Lots were chalking it up to be ****, but I'm really enjoying gameplay, and the narrative is sucking me in a bit too.
I just wish I hadn't used the wrong save to start.
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Interviews said that multiplayer wasn't going to be mandatory for getting the best endings in singleplayer. However, the only way to increase galactic readiness is to play multi otherwise war assets are at half strength. The best endings require a war asset rating around 5,000 or so and the cap seems to be around 6,000 so... you can do the math.
Tell me you're lying. The odds are I won't be doing multi; I'd have to get gold for my hexbox again (don't look at me like that, it's where my previous saves are) and this will suck.
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I'd have to get gold for my hexbox again (don't look at me like that, it's where my previous saves are).
Try to look on the internet about ways to convert XBox saves to PC. I heard it was possible.
You could still make a ME2 save from scratch with a save editor of course. Works just as well.
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hrrrrng... just finished the game. around 24 hours of gameplay. No i dont play fairly. I'm in it for the story mostly :p
Overall? The writing wasnt that terrible. They made me mull over some decisions for a good while at times. The gameplay was pure bliss honestly. At least compared to ME2.
things i could've done without:
Dream sequences. Oh so forced!
Very lazy texturing on a lot of things, especially on any of the background scenery.
The asari husks. Oh god the noise, please make it stop, please make it stop.
also, the reaper noise when they get in system, and really, any scene where the bigass reaper was there. God that noise gave me the creeps.
Kai Leng. Ace wrote up well enough what was going on.
The good stuff? Too many to list. Honestly, despite my very low expectations, the game is glorious. Could partly be because i refused to spoil myself prior to playing much and partly because i tried not to look into the plot holes.
Also, on the subject of spacebattles...
They really sucked. I honestly expected much much more. I've seen more hectic and hilariously insane space battles with freespace. this was just... *draaaaaag* *draaaag* *BANG BANG* *PEW PEW PEW* *piddly beam noise*
whoever said in the demo thread about the reapers using piddly LRed's or whichever.. honestly... i felt tons more dread when i heard a beam charge up and let loose in FSO than i've seen any "starship grade" weapon in those battles.
Also, as the old trope goes, "SCI-FI WRITERS HAVE NO SENSE OF SCALE!" is extremely well represented here.
I'm done.
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Figures, finally got my CE in the mail today and then my glasses break tonight at work.
Looks like they polished the choppiness of the dialogue sequences up to at least a satisfactory level. That was my only major gripe with the demo, though the mouth movements still don't seem to line up correctly with the speech it is at least close enough to be tolerable. Liking it so far but I only had a short time to try it out before leaving for work.
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The more I think about it the very end sequence could have worked almost as-is with a few minor tweaks and would have made things appear a little less Deus Ex Machina-like:
Instead of starchild/Earthguilt the lift raises up and there's a scrambled VI similar to Vigil. It scans Shepard and its speech turns into English and it does take on a humanoid form (random person you've lost over the series). It reveals itself to be the VI constructed by the first Reaper species as a guardian to ensure a means to continue the cycle and tries to argue for why it must continue. The plans for the Crucible were constructed by the Reapers as a means to move organic life that was ready for the next step (fusion with synthetic). The Reapers themselves were afraid of taking that step, and each cycle serves as a test of whether species are able to take that final step. You find out that there have been some cycles that species construct the Crucible and use it to merge with synthetic life and move on. Others who fail or do not chose this become preserved as Reapers to enable new forms of organic life to flourish and contain the threat posed by belligerent forms of synthetics. Basically the Reapers began the cycle because of the dangers of organic and synthetic life potentially wiping out all other forms of life and it leading to stasis. So they impose order in the chaos that would lead to the destruction of all potential life. Basically keeps the Reaper motivation pretty much the same, but slightly less straw-man than "to save organics we must kill them!" by focusing on their whole "potential life" flawed logic.
Nearly every cycle has individuals like Shepard, the one who makes the decision to merge, ascend as a Reaper, or make a final stand to preserve stasis. The relays are kept active as long as there is hope for a Crucible and synthesis, but once that battle has ended the Reapers shut down the relay network for harvesting. However, the Citadel's VI recognizes that each cycle has altered the Crucible plans, the Protheans perfecting the weapon to destroy the Reapers forever and now Cerberus subtlety altering the plans to allow for control of the Reapers. The cycle is now unsustainable since Liara sent the probes/timecapsules everywhere with these new crucible plans that will destroy the cycle.
The Reapers are intentionally holding back at the start of a cycle to muster organics together to build the crucible and decide to merge on their own, the relay network really being designed for this type of ascension. Otherwise the full fleets are summoned from darkspace and the current species are preserved in that form. You still have the button press endings but the VI gives Shepard the chance to send one final message to his crew members and warn the fleet to FTL out.
So basically the choices become: Anderson (kill Reapers), TIM (control Reapers), or Reaper (merge peacefully with synthetics, move beyond, and allow new life to evolve)
BAM! All weird inconsistencies such as If there's a damn Reaper AI on the Citadel why bother with Sovereign! Especially since it seems like the Conduit was important for getting into the Citadel to use the AI there for the Crucible, so claiming that the Prothean team on Ilos disabled it makes no sense.
more or less fixed and some of the existing ending oddness solved.
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Wow. I take back everything I said earlier. This is the worthiest conclusion we've had to a science fiction game trilogy since we found Bosh.
e: spelling.
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Extremists are always morons.
FDAA warning
this post contains nearly the lethal dose of irony
Yeah, given that you are labeled as an Troll, I'm kinda not worreid with your skewed impressions of me.
@Ace:
Normandy re-seeding humanity? Given the crew is maybe 50 people, I don't see that happening.
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Extremists are always morons.
FDAA warning
this post contains nearly the lethal dose of irony
Yeah, given that you are labeled as an Troll, I'm kinda not worreid with your skewed impressions of me.
@Ace:
Normandy re-seeding humanity? Given the crew is maybe 50 people, I don't see that happening.
am i the only person who is utterly ignoring that cutscene? i had garrus and tali with me.
for the end and the whole talky bit when you get vaped by harbinger heavily implies that whoever was with you on the team is gone. permadead. turned to dust. pushing up daisies. an ex-parrot. and then i see garrus stepping out of the normandy? dafuq? yeahno. i'm ignoring that cutscene totally.
I have to ask tho Trashman, have you actually played and finished the game? If you didnt, please do so. Just watching the endings/LP's on youtube does not give the game justice.
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It was never said or shown that whoever you chose to go with you on the final run was going the whole distance to the conduit. It would have been nice to have a scene where shep tells his guys that he'll do this one alone, but ultimately, not necessary.
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It was never said or shown that whoever you chose to go with you on the final run was going the whole distance to the conduit. It would have been nice to have a scene where shep tells his guys that he'll do this one alone, but ultimately, not necessary.
Well they could have easily fixed some weirdness by having:
Joker do a bombing run with the thanix on Harbinger as a suicide run. So we see the Normandy swoop in, atillery hits Harby, the Normandy fires at Harby point blank, big explosion and that fries Shepard. Then hear scattered radio messages as cooked Shepard about Joker picking up the survivors, Hammer is a loss, and Shepard and Anderson are MIA.
Something like that would establish what happened to the other characters and why they're in the ending. Plus would have added even more awesomeness and a conclusion to Harbinger.
I also would have had Harby taunting the player on the final run too...
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Dohohohoho...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpj3dy9ALQ0&feature=plcp&context=C4781046VDvjVQa1PpcFNlHYdCTKIh39As0l9A3ICUMWDyPBtop28%3D
:D
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Jesus ****ing christ the quality whiplash in the last ten minutes of this game is going to snap my neck more effectively than a banshee sync kill
ending spoiler 'a new dna' what the christ
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Yeah people might have whined about
the conversation with the Illusive Man, but that seemed fine. Basically the game falls apart right after Hackett messages that the crucible isn't working. Hell I'd been happier with Shep pressing a button, getting the Reapers destroyed cutscene and the Normandy flying into the sunset (or escaping through the relay and crashing on the alien planet if Earth explodes because you lack enough resources)
.
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The art and design guys got extra budget for this one and they went a little mad with it.
The Alliance ripped out all the interior lighting on the Normandy. Must not have been up to code.
Dammit Marine I did not drag you off Virmire to let you die here, do you hear me!?
My Prothean is...actually presented well. I have to give them credit here, they could have really, really ****ed this up, but they made it work even on a tiny budget of time.
The level designers too got extra budget and went mad with it. Jesus did they go mad.
Everything anyone has ever said that was bad about the Omniblade they should take back; it works and they explained it well. It's always been in that omnitools could manufacture simple stuff, like a blade that's freshly cast and still hot. Did I mention I took down an Atlas with one? I was trying to hijack it but I couldn't figure out how and hit him with the blade instead.
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Everything you said is correct. I am a huge fan of the game's level design and (most) of its art - the creepy fanservice EDI aside. I also love, love, love vast swathes of its writing. It's nearly a perfect conclusion (so very, very nearly).
The From Ashes DLC is also shamefully well done - so well done and so important to the story as a whole that it should've been free. NGTM1R, be sure to bring Javik to Thessia; it adds a lot to the plot.
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My Prothean is...actually presented well. I have to give them credit here, they could have really, really ****ed this up, but they made it work even on a tiny budget of time.
Thought about it's philosophy?
Everything anyone has ever said that was bad about the Omniblade they should take back; it works and they explained it well. It's always been in that omnitools could manufacture simple stuff, like a blade that's freshly cast and still hot. Did I mention I took down an Atlas with one? I was trying to hijack it but I couldn't figure out how and hit him with the blade instead.
Omni-blades are garbage and what they did with omni-tools is garbage (forging an entire blade in a nano-second? ST replicators got nothing on this!).
They don't explain it well. It doens't work well. It's a stupid gimmick, and it should die in a fire along with te cretin who thougt it was a good idea.
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admiral hackett is such a dreamboat
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Thought about it's philosophy?
the idea that the protheans were totalitarian darwinists is one of the best things they could've done
woo-woo wise mystical elder races are a dime a dozen
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Omni-blades are garbage and what they did with omni-tools is garbage (forging an entire blade in a nano-second? ST replicators got nothing on this!).
They don't explain it well. It doens't work well. It's a stupid gimmick, and it should die in a fire along with te cretin who thougt it was a good idea.
You see me bladin', you hatin'
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admiral hackett is such a dreamboat
exhausted by responsibility shep tosses and turns in sleep
shepard, we've got a situation developing here, in my pants. we need a speedy resolution
i'm counting on you to get the job done
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Thought about it's philosophy?
What's there to think about? The Protheans were apparently aware of the Reapers long before they were actually coming. In light of that, all their actions make a great deal of sense. Their solution was wrong, but they had know way of knowing that prior to actually trying.
Omni-blades are garbage and what they did with omni-tools is garbage (forging an entire blade in a nano-second? ST replicators got nothing on this!).
Omnitools were always meant to be able to create simple parts for weapons and equipment on demand (it's why your **** never breaks down). You can reprocess entire mods into their component materials in seconds as of ME1. Casting a single, short blade, no complexity, and as far as we know not even mixing materials, and it's still hot from the process in (counting 'em) two or three seconds is well within the realm of possibility from the ME lore.
Besides, it's not like we can't magically generate flamethrowers with an omnitool that will burn better than white phosphor or napalm and burn through steel and ceramic composites even in a ****ing vacuum, or freeze people with cryo bullets, or a half dozen other things that are actually a ****ing whole lot more impossible than the omniblade.
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Reading this thread, spoilers included, has inspired me to create a new FemShep (I played as a male through ME and ME2 originally) and play through ME1 and 2 again in anticipation of a price drop in the eventual future, as I adamantly refuse to pay $60 for a game and then more for Day 1 DLC, especially since it is not [yet? please be it a yet] on Steam.
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It'd better be on Steam sooner or later. There's no way I'm paying a full price for this, not to mention I don't want to install Origin.
If it won't be on Steam, I'm pirating it. I don't think EA deserves being paid at all. :)
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:rolleyes:
let's stick to *****ing about the game
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Turians reenacting Starship Troopers on the moons of Palaven. Except they're Turians and they know how to do **** correctly unlike anyone from the movie.
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Turians reenacting Starship Troopers on the moons of Palaven. Except they're Turians and they know how to do **** correctly unlike anyone from the movie.
i think you will agree that reaper tactics are really ****ing inexplicable
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So Wrex told me to "Avoid the giant beam".
Me love you long time.
It'd better be on Steam sooner or later. There's no way I'm paying a full price for this, not to mention I don't want to install Origin.
If it won't be on Steam, I'm pirating it. I don't think EA deserves being paid at all. :)
The "I don't want Origin"-whine thread is elsewhere. And by elsewhere I mean not on HLP. Go to the Bull**** network (Or Bioware Network, as they call it), and whine there. Also, Dragon, get your ****ing entitlement issues out of here. If you want to play ME3, just buy the damn thing. Do NOT pirate it and then complain when EA tightens the DRM rules. It's ****ers like you who are the problem, not the actual game studios and distributors.
Ransom: ME3 will not be on Steam for the foreseeable future. Better get used to it.
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Tuchanka was awesome. Reaper, Kalros summoned, Kalros crushes Reaper. And then Mordin Solus dies. :(
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i think you will agree that reaper tactics are really ****ing inexplicable
will agree that reaper tactics are really
reaper tactics
Is this the oxymoron thread?
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hey man 'park my immortal starship body on the ground and flail about shooting ineffective tiny lasers at building facades instead of grasering literally everything in sight and deploying drone platforms for over-the-horizon nuclear-yield suppression capability' is a tactic
e: this was just a thing i accepted as part of the action movie style, though, it didn't really hamper my enjoyment
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Thought about it's philosophy?
the idea that the protheans were totalitarian darwinists is one of the best things they could've done
woo-woo wise mystical elder races are a dime a dozen
*ahum* Social Darwinists.
There's a nice bit with Shepard and the Prothean where the Prothean does his rant and paragon Shepard's comment basically alludes to: "Ermm... that's your culture dude, biology doesn't really work that way buddy..."
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you are correct
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Omni-blades are garbage and what they did with omni-tools is garbage (forging an entire blade in a nano-second? ST replicators got nothing on this!).
Omnitools were always meant to be able to create simple parts for weapons and equipment on demand (it's why your **** never breaks down). You can reprocess entire mods into their component materials in seconds as of ME1. Casting a single, short blade, no complexity, and as far as we know not even mixing materials, and it's still hot from the process in (counting 'em) two or three seconds is well within the realm of possibility from the ME lore.
Besides, it's not like we can't magically generate flamethrowers with an omnitool that will burn better than white phosphor or napalm and burn through steel and ceramic composites even in a ****ing vacuum, or freeze people with cryo bullets, or a half dozen other things that are actually a ****ing whole lot more impossible than the omniblade.
I'm sorry, but the "instant" fabrication was never stated as fact in ME1.
Being able to produce/repurpose some basic materials is OK, but we are taking about a tiny apparatus the size of a cell phone, flash forging a friggin sword in a nano-second and emmiting all kinds of holographic fields (and ME fields). And the ME fields themselves have become a galactic glue. They can apparently now hold everything..including atmosphere!
Omigel and ombinbaldes (tools) are the worst part of ME lore. Period.
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i dunno they seem to enable fun gameplay, so that means they are probably good parts of the lore
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Inane ranting.
It takes 15 omni-gel to repair the Mako in a matter of seconds, in the field. You can convert half of your entire inventory to omni-gel literally in the time between shots on your assault rifle. And you're trying to say that the omni-tool, which can already throw fireballs, iceballs, fabricate combat drones instantly, and all manner of other things can't make a simple, semi-sharp, very hot blade over the course of two seconds.
I think you left logic somewhere behind you. It's far enough back there that I can't even see it from here.
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i think you will agree that reaper tactics are really ****ing inexplicable
Forget tactics, there were Reapers ****ing walking around. After that bit I decided the Reapers exist in individual anti-reality bubbles and draw their strength from mocking all forms of conventional behavior and physics.
If they tried to use normal tactics like we do they'd probably implode or something.
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i think you will agree that reaper tactics are really ****ing inexplicable
Forget tactics, there were Reapers ****ing walking around. After that bit I decided the Reapers exist in individual anti-reality bubbles and draw their strength from mocking all forms of conventional behavior and physics.
If they tried to use normal tactics like we do they'd probably implode or something.
yeah the walking around business is really a bit dizzying
i like to imagine world war 2 conducted by politely landing one's bombers on the enemy's highways and attempting to roll into town to hand-deliver the bombs
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Actually it occurs to me the Reapers are...uh...how shall I put this.
They're downward spiraling.
One capital Reaper is built per cycle.
We've already won, in a sense. We killed Sovereign. The Turians have apparently taken down several more capital-type Reapers in the battle for Palaven.
The Reapers are losing spectacularly. It will take them hundreds of thousands of years to recover from what's already happened, and I'm only a few hours in. They must know it, too, since they think so long-term. Their strategy is doomed to inevitably destroy them.
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i think the codex can be read as saying '1 species = 1 capital class reaper, multiple such harvests conducted per cycle', rather than '1 capital class per cycle', but even so it's a ****ing stupid plot point that literally never figures into the game at all, and like most things about the reapers in ME3 makes no sense whatsoever
actually looking at the entry this is likely just desperate fanwank :|
maybe when a reaper goes down its civilization-crew downloads to another one? that seems to be the only sane way to imagine them ever risking themselves in combat
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Ransom: ME3 will not be on Steam for the foreseeable future. Better get used to it.
??? my only post in this thread concerns adorably rugged admirals, i'm not even bothered by origin :(
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<<DO NOT READ THIS CRAP IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME!>>
Commence rant:
Ok so I beat me3. Man, I felt like I made all the wrong decisions. Seems everywhere I went people needlessly died. Shot Ashley in the chest, Drove Tali to jump off a cliff after she saw her people burning in the sky above, let that "children!" breedqueen creature go which seemed like a fruitless errand to get good Krogan soldiers killed. Drove the Salarians away from negations... Can't we all just get along? Also, everyone seems so incompetent. Everyone's so needy I mean come on! Is Sheppard the only one in the galaxy with a gun? Kinda felt that way.
At one point I imagined my Sheppard character looking up and saying, "Sometimes I feel like I am playing out some kind of sick game made by a psychopath who likes to inflict the pain of moral dilemmas on the innocent." The game is kinda cruel that way. Getting you to like characters and then quickly killing them off. Like the Asari snipers who give you covering fire just before a burst of energy comes crashing down vaporizing them, at that point I snickered to myself thinking "****in game...every time"
Probably my favorite part of the game was the part where you fight the reaper with a targeting device linked to the Quarian fleet. I wanted to support the Quarians, but if the game made me choose between Quarians and Geth, which I had an idea they would, I'd go with the Geth. I just had to for legion, or his... clone? I don't understand what Geth IV was in relation to legion if he was related at all. When I saw the Quarian fleet burning, and the cut scene focused on Tali I imagined my Sheppard saying, "So... uh.. we're still cool right?". Right before she starts her sprint off the cliff. The drama! Oh the drama my feckless decisions cause!
Also the part where the sandworm of Tachonka(spelling?) drags the reaper into the ground and buries it. Pretty cool stuff.
Anyone check army composition in the warroom? Seems like fleets and squads have almost equal value. That does not seem proportional at all! A dreadnaught takes thousands of crew (freespace logic), no way that compares to a bunch of guys holding assault rifles; no matter how good they are. And how do those nuke cannons oughtweigh dreadnaughts in reaper killing ability?! Why don't they mount nuke cannons on their dreadnaughts then? Speaking of which, how bout those fleet based cutscenes? large phalanxs of space faring vessels trading firepower until someone wins. Reminds me of 16th century musket warfare. Sucks to be in the first line of dreadnaughts. Fighters don't seem to have things any nicer either. Some good crazy fun those cutscenes were.
Probably the point in the story where my interest was piqued is when the Krogans, Turians and Salarians were all negotiating and the Krogran says, " You want our help? Cure the genophage." That set the stage in my mind that this game was going to be one of interracial negotiations, allowing us to explore the tenuous alliance these otherwise warring races would share. It's somewhat of a common theme to have unlikely customers unite to defeat a common foe, like independence day or pick your average alien invasion film. I was considering making some kind of storyline for a freespace campaign along these lines, but perhaps the theme is too overplayed? I do like the theme overall though.
Yeah, so the ending. Uh... I don't really get it. Sheppard dies? Synthetics(Geth!) die? Seems like everyone in space would die without their ships. No masseffect cores? So it's back to medieval earth? Really? And what about those organics who burned on the earth's surface as the nova made its sweep? And why is the catalyst that kid you keep chasing in your dreams? Wonder If I would have preferred the traditional 'build the cannon, cannon kills all bad guys the end' sort of route. I kinda get the feeling that the ME3 team tried to outdo themselves so much that they said, "Hey if we make the ending confusing enough maybe we can trick people into thinking it's good" I did, however, like the confrontation with the illusive man though; maybe he was right all along?.
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You sound like really, really needed to import a character from ME2. Sounds like you didn't have Wrex or Legion alive, for one.
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Inane ranting.
It takes 15 omni-gel to repair the Mako in a matter of seconds, in the field. You can convert half of your entire inventory to omni-gel literally in the time between shots on your assault rifle. And you're trying to say that the omni-tool, which can already throw fireballs, iceballs, fabricate combat drones instantly, and all manner of other things can't make a simple, semi-sharp, very hot blade over the course of two seconds.
I think you left logic somewhere behind you. It's far enough back there that I can't even see it from here.
Gameplay mechanic does not equal direct lore. Just because in-game you can convert 15 rifles to omni-gel, doesn't mean squat.
B.t.w. - omni-tools have been wonky from day 1.
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So I beat the game
I made everyone hybrid synthetic biological things. The loss of the mass relays deeply disturbs me, I'm hoping since everyone is all good now that they might be rebuilt at some point in the future. Sol would still be a major pocket of diversity though. So I guess I can feel okay about that. Ending feels wonky as ****, but bioware. I took Garrus and Kaiden along on the last spin. I assume we are all chilling at a bar in some sort of afterlife now.
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bigchunk: The values in the war room seem a bit arbitrary, but then, a squad of expert commandos is probably as useful in a ground fight against reaper forces as a cruiser is in a fight in space. Also, Mass Effect ships are consistently smaller and less crew-intensive than FS ships.
In addition, all of those decisions you made sound pretty Renegade. Also, you really need to keep hoarding those reputation points; in the decision with the geth vs the quarians it's possible to take a third option, provided you have nearly maxed your reputation bar (Which is possible, but does require doing most of the available side missions).
And yeah, it sounds like you pretty much rushed through to the ending; There are at least 8 possible variations for it that are dependant on your ingame choices, whether you blew up the reaper base in ME2, and how much stuff you collected for the war effort.
Gameplay mechanic does not equal direct lore. Just because in-game you can convert 15 rifles to omni-gel, doesn't mean squat.
B.t.w. - omni-tools have been wonky from day 1.
You really are grasping at straws to stick to your opinion that this game is bad, aren't you? I mean, nearly every single point you have raised in the previous thread as being a bad decision turns out to be actually well-executed in the actual game, or at least that's the opinion of people who have actually played it (and who are not on BSN).
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This is the best game with the worst ending I have ever played. It's the most insanely schizophrenic thing.
Bioware romances are always kind of creepy and pandering but the Bioware space bro friendships really get to me for some reason. :( When Liara-who-was-not-my-love-interest just put her head on FemShep's shoulder, clearly certain she'd never see Shep again, I got all misty-eyed.
And yeah, it sounds like you pretty much rushed through to the ending; There are at least 8 possible variations for it that are dependant on your ingame choices, whether you blew up the reaper base in ME2, and how much stuff you collected for the war effort.
In practical terms there are only three endings, and all that varies is the color of the giant super saiyan laser you shoot into space, and the number of characters you see on your stranded inbred death colony. It is possible to also blow up Earth or something but I get the sense that's pretty hard.
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Question: someone mentioned earlier than multiplayer factors into the possible endings. Is this accurate, or can you still obtain all the different endings without a shred of multi?
Mostly wondering since I can see the multiplayer in this game dying a fairly rapid death, and I'm thinking I'd better get in on it sooner if it's basically necessary to influence the singleplayer.
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Question: someone mentioned earlier than multiplayer factors into the possible endings. Is this accurate, or can you still obtain all the different endings without a shred of multi?
Mostly wondering since I can see the multiplayer in this game dying a fairly rapid death, and I'm thinking I'd better get in on it sooner if it's basically necessary to influence the singleplayer.
The multiplayer is honestly pretty astoundingly fun and I don't see it dying super fast.
You can get all the endings that matter just with single player but (huge but kind of stupid but still I guess pretty huge spoiler)
THIS IS A HUGE SPOILER I'M SERIOUS
one of the endings gives a hint Shep lives if you get an effective military strength of I think 5000, which requires a bit of multiplayer).
Honestly, though, this hint is so short and dumb you might as well see it on Youtube.
I'll reiterate: the endings are all effectively equally ****ty, they differ only in the color of some lights and one or two other details. None of them gives any feedback on what happens to the galaxy or the characters you care about.
Fortunately if you pretend the last ten minutes of the game never happened there's a pretty good ending sitting there.
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Jesus Christ, from some of the leaks that came out of Bioware, it sounds like the ending they originally had planned was even worse :shaking:
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Jesus Christ, from some of the leaks that came out of Bioware, it sounds like the ending they originally had planned was even worse :shaking:
Links?
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I'm not sure that's possible. Even if Shepard sat down and had some beers with Harbinger and talked it all out, I'd at least be able to cling to a Kirk parallel and feel sort of okay.
Jack has gone to gauze instead leather straps. She's also grown a ponytail and some hair. And hilariously one of her kids mocks her old "I WILL DESTROY YOU".
A dreadnaught takes thousands of crew (freespace logic), no way that compares to a bunch of guys holding assault rifles; no matter how good they are.
ME ships have very small crews. When a Turian frigate goes down while you're on Palaven's moon, the characters comment that she had maybe fifty people aboard. Dreadnaught crew is well under a thousand.
Another thing to remember is that the Reapers have proved, repeatedly, and in ugly fashion, their complete superiority in space warfare. The greatest victories against the Reapers have been won by people on the ground. You even proved it was possible to get inside a Reaper and severely damage it on foot. A cruiser or even a flotilla of them will struggle to escape alive from one capital-class Reaper. 20 guys on foot might be able cripple or destroy it if the Kodiak gets close enough.
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You really are grasping at straws to stick to your opinion that this game is bad, aren't you? I mean, nearly every single point you have raised in the previous thread as being a bad decision turns out to be actually well-executed in the actual game, or at least that's the opinion of people who have actually played it (and who are not on BSN).
Or at least that's your opinion.
If you truly like it, more power to you.
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You really are grasping at straws to stick to your opinion that this game is bad, aren't you? I mean, nearly every single point you have raised in the previous thread as being a bad decision turns out to be actually well-executed in the actual game, or at least that's the opinion of people who have actually played it (and who are not on BSN).
Or at least that's your opinion.
If you truly like it, more power to you.
But it's not just his opinion, it's the opinion of virtually everyone who has played the game. I see no-one complaining about the omniblade other than you when you haven't even played the game yet. Hell, I was skeptic of it at first, thought it was too "cawl of dooty/gears of war" style, but it's actually fun. If you still don't like it, just tap F instead of holding it down and do a normal melee hit. :rolleyes:
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This game sounds good. I think I know what to expect from this series now, and it should be a fun (and lengthy) experience as long as you don't try to think too hard about the plot. I will probably get it after some months though, once all the patches and DLCs are out and people have hacked in the console/ini files. Some of those changes were essential in Mass Effect 2, and I have other games I'm busy with right now anyway.
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I'm not sure that's possible. Even if Shepard sat down and had some beers with Harbinger and talked it all out, I'd at least be able to cling to a Kirk parallel and feel sort of okay.
Jack has gone to gauze instead leather straps. She's also grown a ponytail and some hair. And hilariously one of her kids mocks her old "I WILL DESTROY YOU".
A dreadnaught takes thousands of crew (freespace logic), no way that compares to a bunch of guys holding assault rifles; no matter how good they are.
ME ships have very small crews. When a Turian frigate goes down while you're on Palaven's moon, the characters comment that she had maybe fifty people aboard. Dreadnaught crew is well under a thousand.
Another thing to remember is that the Reapers have proved, repeatedly, and in ugly fashion, their complete superiority in space warfare. The greatest victories against the Reapers have been won by people on the ground. You even proved it was possible to get inside a Reaper and severely damage it on foot. A cruiser or even a flotilla of them will struggle to escape alive from one capital-class Reaper. 20 guys on foot might be able cripple or destroy it if the Kodiak gets close enough.
The codex entries also go into how Reapers are more vulnerable on planetary surfaces since they have reduced barrier strength. So ground forces make more sense. Even then we only see them on the ground if they're the small destroyers that have secured a location or they have clear space superiority.
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Figured someone in here might appreciate this (http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/710).
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Figured someone in here might appreciate this (http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/710).
If you haven't, youtube that conversation. It's ****ing hilarious in most cases.
Hell, even the Paragon interrupt is actually rather touching in a way (and an impressive testament to Shepard's cold-reading skills).
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Just finished it a few hours ago still trying to regain my composure. I brought the whole galaxy together saved everyone ushered in a new age of life as we know it and I died. I died. Most of the people i hear on the net are really angry about the ending foaming from the mouth. All I am at the moment is incredibly sad. Sad that Shepard didnt get a happy ending. Sad that she will never see her little blue kids running around (Liara got pregnant before the final mission in my mind she has to). Sad that she will not spend the rest of her life with Liara. Sad that she can't experience the galaxy she saved. Not angry. If your angry your just deflecting your sadness. You don't want to face your incredible sadness. So you lash out. Nobody said that there will be a happy ending. Sometimes life doesn't have a happy ending. You try hard but in the end your reward is just being remembered. :(
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Just finished it a few hours ago still trying to regain my composure. I brought the whole galaxy together saved everyone ushered in a new age of life as we know it and I died. I died. Most of the people i hear on the net are really angry about the ending foaming from the mouth. All I am at the moment is incredibly sad. Sad that Shepard didnt get a happy ending. Sad that she will never see her little blue kids running around (Liara got pregnant before the final mission in my mind she has to). Sad that she will not spend the rest of her life with Liara. Sad that she can't experience the galaxy she saved. Not angry. If your angry your just deflecting your sadness. You don't want to face your incredible sadness. So you lash out. Nobody said that there will be a happy ending. Sometimes life doesn't have a happy ending. You try hard but in the end your reward is just being remembered. :(
I would honestly be pretty happy if the ending just involved Shep sacrificing her life, but you also destroy galactic civilization, screw over your friends, and render all your previous choices irrelevant no matter what ending you pick, so it's **** every way you care to stroll.
I just pretend the game ended ten minutes before it really did.
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The whole "dropping the entire galaxy into a dark age no matter what you pick" thing really pisses me off. Sure, you can sort-of choose the level of regression, but it still makes everything you do in the game feel like a much smaller victory.
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I just wanted to go back to having a multi-species cooperative galactic civilization :-(
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What's the point in making peace between the Quarians and the Geth if a) half the quarians are going to be stranded at Earth and possibly merged with synthetics b) the Geth are going to be destroyed/or merged with organics?
What's the point in agonizing over the genophage decision if the Krogan are going to be locked in their homeworld with no mass relay/merged with synthetics (presumably rendering the genophage, or its cure, irrelevant)?
What's the point in feeling anything for any of the ME3 Normandy crew/squadmates if they're going to end up trapped in a Jurassic Park incest colony
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I'm guessing Sol is a VERY interesting place to be after the relays are destroyed. It's the only place where a touch of the previous galactic culture may exist. It's a small victory for inter-species relations.
EDIT: Also, why is the normandy jumping regardless of ending choice? I can understand Joker trying to escape if you destroy all synthetics (for EDI), but what the **** is the normandy doing leaving the battle otherwise?
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I'm guessing Sol is a VERY interesting place to be after the relays are destroyed. It's the only place where a touch of the previous galactic culture may exist. It's a small victory for inter-species relations.
Indeed, it'll be an interesting place to be, watching all the Turians and Quarians ****ing starve to death in a completely incompatible ecosystem. Maybe if the Quarians had brought their liveships it'd be different, but as far as I can tell they didn't.
Not that this'll be anything but a footnote compared to the holocaust that'll ensue as billions of tons of Citadel debris crash down to end all life on Earth
****
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EDIT: Also, why is the normandy jumping regardless of ending choice? I can understand Joker trying to escape if you destroy all synthetics (for EDI), but what the **** is the normandy doing leaving the battle otherwise?
It makes no sense even if you did destroy all synthetics. Ain't like Shepard was broadcasting what he was gonna do. And nevermind the whole "Why is EDI back on the ship now anyway, she was on Earth with the rest of the squad" thing.
Unbelievable. They stole the endings from Deus Ex with a Deus Ex Machina, both in the literary sense, and the literal "God from the Machine" sense.
Too bad the thing didn't MAKE any sense.
.....It really is Michael Bay level crap. And Trashman called it 3 posts into the first thread.
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May or may not be true.
(http://nukelol.com/images/phone_imgs/1331424507833.png)
Also, this is a cool reference:
(http://nukelol.com/images/forumimages/hahabioware.jpg)
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Wow. Talk about cashing it in. And to think, I used to be excited about this game. Oh well. I've got plenty to play already. So sad to see BioWare go the same way as all the other devs who have been swallowed up by EA and run into the ground. Ah BioWare, we hardly knew ya.
Of course, it's just opinion, but this sounds so ridiculous that I'm not buying it. Or using any other means to acquire it.
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...have you somehow missed the majority opinion in the thread that the game is very very good, save the last ten minutes? :p
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Congratulations, you just completely ignored half a dozen pages of positive reviews to ditch the game for ten bad minutes of ending.
EDIT: Ninja'd.
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Yeah, the game is good up until the last ten minutes. If you can deal with making up your own ending, I'd still suggest getting it.
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Wow. Talk about cashing it in. And to think, I used to be excited about this game. Oh well. I've got plenty to play already. So sad to see BioWare go the same way as all the other devs who have been swallowed up by EA and run into the ground. Ah BioWare, we hardly knew ya.
Of course, it's just opinion, but this sounds so ridiculous that I'm not buying it. Or using any other means to acquire it.
The game is fantastic until - yeah, the last ten minutes. It's almost a perfect conclusion to the series as long as you turn it off at the right moment.
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So many fanfics of the last ten minutes are coming.
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I just wanted to go back to having a multi-species cooperative galactic civilization :-(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW954nbcLe8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW954nbcLe8)
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Finished ME3 yesterday. Spoilers following.
The hell is with the crappy journal? It never changes to reflect current state of a mission, like when you've acquired the item the mission needs. Certainly, this wasn't much of an issue since people you need to find are all in the Citadel and any items you miss out on can be acquired from the Spectre console. The security checkpoint before war room slows player down so much it's annoying. Fuel. It's next to pointless in ME3 and now there are even fewer fuel depots than there were in ME2. It's just silly because in ME3 there's not much exploration unless you really want to go out of your way to ping every corner of the galaxy. And in the process gain reaper presence, ugh.
As a sequel to ME2, I think ME3 is pretty good game overall. However, on it's own it wouldn't be nowhere as good as ME1 or ME2. The game was completely designed around not having much of any focus on side-missions, you pretty much go to a planet, ping, launch probe, collect. These side missions feel so pointless that I would have preferred they would have been cut out completely, and instead picked a few of them and made them into part of the main missions like Cerberus missions. That would have brought more variety to missions. The game is much more focused on the main mission than any other Bioware game I've played to date. It works for a sequel and final game of the ME trilogy, so it's not much of a handicap. Those who haven't played ME1 and ME2 would probably find this game rather shallow.
I wish they'd have brought out back the level of customization we had in ME1, but this is better than ME2 at least. You really had a lot of choices for your armor, weapons and mods back in ME1. As far as weapon mods in ME3 go, it seems that getting scope and longer barrel is a no brainer. I wondered about the anti-armor mod though, but it seemed to lower base damage too much for my liking. Also, weapon upgrades. I honestly couldn't tell a difference between I and V level Mattock except for how much ammo it could have. I wonder how significant these weapon upgrades were supposed to be. In ME1 though, armor and weapon upgrades could make your team so strong missions became pretty much a cakewalk.
There's not really that much to spend money on, unless you want to get those Spectre weapons. But IMO they're worse than what you get in missions anyway, so what's the point. I think I only bought two armor pieces to maximize my weapon damage, which I think topped out at +50% and weapon upgrades for the weapons I thought were the best in their class. SMG's seemed totally worthless though, even compared to pistols. As for me, Mattock and Widow ftw.
And now the ending. When you confront IM, the last dialogue option gives you paragon/renegade options, but they're both grayed out for me. Even though I SHOULD have maxed out paragon as I completed every mission I found. What the heck is with that? Failing the dialogue check, your only option is to go renegade and shoot IM, there is no paragon option after dialogue. From what I understood, apparently destroying reapers also means destroying the geth, relays and most of technology which would kill a lot of people whose live literally depends on technology. This option is so silly that it's not even an option. Now, who the hell wants to merge organics and synthetics just like that, it's way too abrupt a change to force on everyone. Which leaves the third option, controlling the Reapers. Now, this option apparently saves the geth, relays and tech, so it's the only sensible option out of the three. Especially after it was confirmed Shepard IS able to control the Reapers, unlike IM. But then, what the **** is with the Normandy cutscene, it makes no bloody sense whatsoever. And after credits, what planet is that supposed to be?
Aside of super silly ending options and the even sillier Normandy cutscene at the end, ME3 is a good game if you treat it as a sequel to ME2, which you should. But goddamn it, the ending bugs me SO much. Even more than the silly plot device where you so conveniently find a lead to destroy Reapers right after they attack Earth. As stand-alone games ME1 and ME2 are better than ME3. Don't get me wrong, ME3 has solid improvements in key areas of gameplay, but the complete package leaves something to be desired. ME2 had a ****ty ending with that human reaper and all, but I think ME2 had less faults than ME3 does. But I think ME1 had even less faults than ME2 did, ME1's biggest issue was the inventory system, but other than that it was pretty damn solid, including a good ending.
I could have forgiven a lot of things in ME3, but come on was it really too much to ask to have an ending we could be satisfied with? It just leaves a sour aftertaste. Is ME3 worth buying? Hell yes if you've got ME1 and ME2 and liked them.
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You really are grasping at straws to stick to your opinion that this game is bad, aren't you? I mean, nearly every single point you have raised in the previous thread as being a bad decision turns out to be actually well-executed in the actual game, or at least that's the opinion of people who have actually played it (and who are not on BSN).
Or at least that's your opinion.
If you truly like it, more power to you.
But it's not just his opinion, it's the opinion of virtually everyone who has played the game. I see no-one complaining about the omniblade other than you when you haven't even played the game yet. Hell, I was skeptic of it at first, thought it was too "cawl of dooty/gears of war" style, but it's actually fun. If you still don't like it, just tap F instead of holding it down and do a normal melee hit. :rolleyes:
"Virtually everyone" my ass. There was a lot of complaining about it and there still is.
And the writing is so ham-fisted, I cannot even grasp how anyone can call it "great". I've seen better fanfiction out there.
Arguments ad populum are irrelevant anyway.
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Yes, so have I. Then again, some fanfictions are pretty ****ing awesome, so I (deliberately) fail to see your (poorly worded) complaint.
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And now the ending. When you confront IM, the last dialogue option gives you paragon/renegade options, but they're both grayed out for me. Even though I SHOULD have maxed out paragon as I completed every mission I found. What the heck is with that? Failing the dialogue check, your only option is to go renegade and shoot IM, there is no paragon option after dialogue.
I had enough paragon to convince him he was indoctrinated. He suicides himself à la Saren. Quite lacking in creativity if you ask me.
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Ending spoiler for Fury:
You can only persuade the Illusive Man if you've attempted to persuade him in every previous encounter, and there's a dialogue on Mars, early in the game, when you have to take one of the left-side conversation options to unlock the persuade.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYgr1rqEec
A somewhat reasonable video explaining the endings as attempted indoctrination. It sort of makes sense, considering how absolutely absurd the ending elements are, or maybe I'm just desperately reaching to for some sort of hope that BioWare didn't troll us.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYgr1rqEec
A somewhat reasonable video explaining the endings as attempted indoctrination. It sort of makes sense, considering how absolutely absurd the ending elements are, or maybe I'm just desperately reaching to for some sort of hope that BioWare didn't troll us.
that... makes an absurd amount of sense.
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If Bioware is doing what I think they're doing, I can't help but applaud them for trying something incredibly ambitious and risky. There's a chance of intense backlash from the gamers, and indeed that has been happening - however it is starting to seem increasingly likely that they might have something in store for the game yet, and more and more people are starting to be suspicious rather than furious about the ending.
If they do release a DLC containing an actually good ending for the story, I can see them being forgiven, because firstly All Just A Dream (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllJustADream) is not exactly an overused trope in video games, and secondly it would make perfect sense for the current ending(s) to be indoctrination-induced hallucinations for the sole reason of Shepard being alive and on the Earth at the end - a case of No One Could Survive That (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoOneCouldSurviveThat), if you will.
So, if they do it right, they have not only a chance of reclaiming themselves in the eyes of their customers, but also sort of make history by releasing the proper ending after a bit of time for all who bought the game. However, they will have to play the timing just right - not too early, when there is still a huge ****storm going around, but not too late or the interest in the issue will fade and the rage and disappointment will be left as the prominent memories the players have for the game series.
In the words of the poet:
Heavy risk... but the prize...
In a way, if they manage to add in a good quality ending, it's actually going to transform the initial ending into one of the most ingenious mind****s I have ever seen. All that RAGE spent over the initial "endings"... transformed into a historical record of Bioware's epic troll.
However if they have the audacity to try and charge extra for something that should be an integral part of the game, there will be riots on the streets, heads will roll and a great torrent will wash away the corruption and decay that is corporate greed, bit by bit. Even EA can't be that stupid... right?
Right? :nervous:
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If they do release a DLC containing an actually good ending for the story.
That would be so awesome. :yes:
However if they have the audacity to try and charge extra for something that should be an integral part of the game, there will be riots on the streets, heads will roll and a great torrent will wash away the corruption and decay that is corporate greed, bit by bit. Even EA can't be that stupid... right?
My thoughts exactly. :nervous:
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Came in here to post what's already the consensus: good to great--hell, I'm just going to call it great, given how often I was tearing up--until that ending, which dried my watery eyes and replaced my sorrow with stupefaction.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYgr1rqEec
A somewhat reasonable video explaining the endings as attempted indoctrination. It sort of makes sense, considering how absolutely absurd the ending elements are, or maybe I'm just desperately reaching to for some sort of hope that BioWare didn't troll us.
that... makes an absurd amount of sense.
...indeed. I am not familiar enough with Bioware works to estimate how likely something like that would be. But given how much Shepard has been in contact with reaper tech, and how much attention he has attracted from the reapers, indoctrination is a perfectly reasonable hypothesis, however strong her mind can be.
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I don't think Bioware's writing team is nearly clever or coordinated enough to pull that off.
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Rumors now spreading that the people who wrote most of the game were isolated from the writer(s) who did the ending and are deeply unhappy with how little input they had.
i, for one, am profoundly, profoundly surprised
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would be a really great thing if shepard really were an Unreliable Narrator in the endings and this is all a Mind Screw. The stone rubble in the cutscene is a definitive hint. But seeing as the Cutscene department probably got a request like "make a short scene with the n7 armor buried in rubble and then moving" occams razors leads me more to think that's just a continuity error. we'll see. I'm not that angry with the endings as most of you guys so im not gonna graps at straws. The ending could have been better yes, but they are not THAT bad in my opinion. It clearly represents the illusion of choice that you have through the whole game (where you can solve all problems with both paragon AND renegade) only reversed and saying doesn't matter what you choose you're ****ed. Which is also a overarcing theme of 3 in general. This war is going to cost no way around it.
It's just it cost way more than you expected from a normal video game standpoint which leads to the great disappointment all around. Somehow really far back in my head i think that BioWare intentionally pulled the rug from under us at the last moment so there will be a big ****storm.
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I don't think it represents that at all, but the problem with the ending is not that it's fundamentally a bad idea, but that it's badly executed. Why is the Normandy running away from the climactic fight for all creation? How did your squadmates get teleported to the Normandy? Why does EDI miraculously survive the Destroy ending for some people, when all synthetic life is supposed to be wiped out?
There's cut content on the disc which seems to explain some of this. Bioware clearly just ran out of time.
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I don't think it represents that at all, but the problem with the ending is not that it's fundamentally a bad idea, but that it's badly executed. Why is the Normandy running away from the climactic fight for all creation? How did your squadmates get teleported to the Normandy? Why does EDI miraculously survive the Destroy ending for some people, when all synthetic life is supposed to be wiped out?
There's cut content on the disc which seems to explain some of this. Bioware clearly just ran out of time.
1.) There are 2 blasts first around the citadel and then the one which transfers between relays. If I were joker I would get the **** out of there once i see the first blast.
2.) Theres some time missing while you were uncouncious and on the citadel so they shuttled back? ( Yeah i no that one is weak)
3.) That sounds like a bug that gametesting should have caught yes i agree with you there.
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The ending is not the place to leave your reader/viewer/player filling in the holes. And it's outrageous that the people who wrote the rest of the game weren't given the input they wanted on the ending.
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I thought those were "rumours" i dont put much money on rumours.
ALSO
The ending is not the place to leave your reader/viewer/player filling in the holes.
THE END OF EVANGELION NUFF SAID
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There's cut content on the disc which seems to explain some of this. Bioware clearly just ran out of time.
Can we please not make statements like that WITHOUT BACKING THEM UP? I really do not have the time and patience required to dig into the depths of the bull**** notwork or youtube or any of the other gazillion places on the net where people are dissecting the game.
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There's cut content on the disc which seems to explain some of this. Bioware clearly just ran out of time.
Can we please not make statements like that WITHOUT BACKING THEM UP?
All the information is available if you poke around the internet (or, well, the disc) -- there's cut audio content from Joker, for instance. I can try to get everything together later.
I spent a while yesterday tracking down statements from the guy who wrote the ME1 codex and Legion/ME2 EDI/Thane/etc. He offered some insight into what he thinks will happen to the setting with the mass relays gone.
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I wonder if hes noticing that by getting all worked up and doing research and stuff he already proved that the endings of the game were really effective in getting people emotionally involved. Which again i think was BW's plan all along. You know how much ****ing publicity for the game the complainers generate?
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Riiiiiight. Most people I know won't even try the game because they're being told from all over the place that the ending suck. Talk about publicity.
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There's cut content on the disc which seems to explain some of this. Bioware clearly just ran out of time.
Can we please not make statements like that WITHOUT BACKING THEM UP?
All the information is available if you poke around the internet (or, well, the disc) -- there's cut audio content from Joker, for instance. I can try to get everything together later.
I spent a while yesterday tracking down statements from the guy who wrote the ME1 codex and Legion/ME2 EDI/Thane/etc. He offered some insight into what he thinks will happen to the setting with the mass relays gone.
If you can provide some links later that would be pretty cool. I'm very interested in what the writer has to say, and what content was left out.
I wonder if hes noticing that by getting all worked up and doing research and stuff he already proved that the endings of the game were really effective in getting people emotionally involved. Which again i think was BW's plan all along. You know how much ****ing publicity for the game the complainers generate?
The rest of the game was good at getting people emotionally involved, the ending(s) were an act that destroyed that emotional involvement. Don't even get me started on how wrong the "no publicity is bad publicity" myth is.
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I wonder if hes noticing that by getting all worked up and doing research and stuff he already proved that the endings of the game were really effective in getting people emotionally involved. Which again i think was BW's plan all along. You know how much ****ing publicity for the game the complainers generate?
By that standard a better ending would've been a snuff film.
If I go on a date with you and then conclude the date by beating the **** out of you, you're 'emotionally involved'. You might even get my name on the police blotter! That doesn't make it a good date.
As Swantz said, the whole game was emotionally involving; the ending felt like a betrayal.
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I wonder if hes noticing that by getting all worked up and doing research and stuff he already proved that the endings of the game were really effective in getting people emotionally involved. Which again i think was BW's plan all along. You know how much ****ing publicity for the game the complainers generate?
By that standard a better ending would've been a snuff film.
If I go on a date with you and then conclude the date by beating the **** out of you, you're 'emotionally involved'. That doesn't make it a good date.
That happens to me a lot... :nervous:
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Riiiiiight. Most people I know won't even try the game because they're being told from all over the place that the ending suck. Talk about publicity.
Yeah, if this is actually what's going on...it's a stupid move. Not quite as stupid as leaving the terrible ending as-is, but even if they do plan on releasing a better ending later and going, "Just kidding," there's still gonna be a lot of pissed off people that may actually not care because they already felt too cockslapped. I will be one of those people. I am so totally done with BioWare at this point that I don't know if I can give them another chance. It's like a bad relationship. And knowing EA's money grubbing ways, it'll be a paid DLC.
"You want an ending that doesn't suck? Haha, suckers, give us $10!"
If it comes down to that, I will wait until the GOTY/Gold/Booger Edition of the game is in the bargain bin before I buy it.
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I really enjoy the game just last 3 choices are horrible but rest awesome, would have liked stuff about the whole Cerberus plans tho
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I also wonder if the last sentence of the Stargazer has any significance "Ok, one more story..."
On a different note: http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/711 (http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/711)
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http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989/
I think a general consensus is being expressed with that poll.
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against what player base? must we talk about sample sizes and statistics? nevermind the "forum is always full of complainers cause the people that are fine with it dont go to the forums" effect.
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I agree with the poll but - while the sample size is enough to be representative - it's not a random sample and thus can't be taken as truly diagnostic.
If this thread is going to turn into an argument about whether the ending is good or not I think I'm out.
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The poll isn't accurate, but I still find it interesting.
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And I find it interesting how BioWare enforced the inevitability of hopeless situations upon an unsuspecting playerbase.
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And I find it interesting how BioWare enforced the inevitability of hopeless situations upon an unsuspecting playerbase.
I think you're giving them way too much credit - none of this was by design. Nor are the complaints about hopelessness, or Shep's death - I think most players wanted Shep to die. The complaints are about what people perceive as low quality and bad execution.
It just looks like something went horribly wrong. Consider that as recently as February Casey Hudson said:
It's not so much that there is a fixed set of alternative endings, but all of your choices really determine how things end up in the universe. So, how you approach the end-game, for every player, you're going to have a different set of results in terms of who is alive and who is dead, and which civilisations survived and which ones were wiped out.There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.
(emphasis mine)
Casey Hudson is a good guy. He's not the kind of PR flack who would straight-up lie about something like this. Yet we didn't end up with 'the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it'; we had three palette-swapped cutscenes. So the question is - what happened?
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It's not so much that there is a fixed set of alternative endings, but all of your choices really determine how things end up in the universe. So, how you approach the end-game, for every player, you're going to have a different set of results in terms of who is alive and who is dead, and which civilisations survived and which ones were wiped out.There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it.
(emphasis mine)
Casey Hudson is a good guy. He's not the kind of PR flack who would straight-up lie about something like this. Yet we didn't end up with 'the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it'; we had three palette-swapped cutscenes. So the question is - what happened?
EA happened. That's my guess.
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And I find it interesting how BioWare enforced the inevitability of hopeless situations upon an unsuspecting playerbase.
I think you're giving them way too much credit - none of this was by design.
Maybe I'm wrong. I'm sure that more about this will come out in the following weeks/month. I'm just saying the endings weren't good but that the endings don't incite the rage that it seems to incite in 90% of players(c what i did thar?) in me cause even tho i'm disappointed by the outcome i can deal with it.
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http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62230265
Claimed account of what the original pre-release endings were supposed to be. Sounds a lot like what I would expect out of the series. It's just a random forum post though, so grain of salt.
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quoting it in case it goes away ever
After checking these boards, bioware forums, the twitters of various people involved with the game, audio file rips as well as some information I've gathered from other sources, I decided to talk with someone who used to run their own review website who still has ties to some people in the video game industry. That includes Bioware (they had sent him early review copies of the first ME). Anyway that's not what's important. The point is what I'm about to say you can take with a grain of salt if you want. I'm not here for attention or because I'm a fanboy of bioware. I'm simply here to help you all make sense of this situation. It will make a lot of sense and put the little things you've all found together. The reasoning for the ending change was they needed more time to implement it (this was supposed to be the reason for the delay) but Kinect implementation and the desire by some people (perhaps EA) to have an ending where things are left to interpretation messed with this. The ending was quickly altered which is why things don't "fit" and there are plot holes. Anyway, below is how things were supposed to happen.
The original ending was SUPPOSED to be extremely varied. Everything remained the same up until the part when Harbinger shoots at you and your team. This is when information that has appeared here already comes into play. There were going to be various outcomes determining how you reached the citadel and it was HOW you got there that determined what endings would be available to you. The following were the different scenarios from worst to best (based on EMS and war assets)
A: Your whole squad gets wiped out (the two crew members you took with you, Anderson). You struggle to make it to the citadel. Right as you're about to make it to the beam, Harbinger talks to you, saying you've been defeated and he kills you. Joker tries to swoop down to save you, but he also gets shot down.
B: Most of your squad gets wiped out. Still only you are able to make it to the citadel. Once up there, you must confront the illusive man alone. Because of this, unless you have high reputation and either talk him down or renegade interrupt and shoot him, he kills you and tries to control the reapers, but fails as he discovers he was indoctrinated.
C: You and Anderson make it up to the citadel together and make your way to the control panel where you confront TIM. The same thing plays out where you can talk him down. With high enough reputation, you can "save" Anderson but its not necessary for you to make it to the next part. Anderson dies after TIM is shot or kills himself like in the ending we got.
D: You and Anderson make it up to the citadel together while you're two squad maters, who clearly survive, are holding off the reapers from following you to the citadel. Everything continues the same here as "C" until after TIM is shot and killed and the final conversation that Anderson and Shepard have (which is much longer than what we got). You get the shorter convo in C.
[The following you only see with outcome "C' and "D"] Shepard looks out at the war going on and activates the crucible. Hacketts says its not working. This is when Harbinger talks to Shepard through TIM as he lies on the ground. Harbinger tries to convince you that you've fail but you can argue with him. Harbinger says that he has your crew in his cross hairs. We see the Normandy arrive (the joker dialogue that was cut) and the rest of your friends help the two squad members you brought with you face off against Harbinger and his reaper minions.
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http://i46.tinypic.com/n49ick.jpg
XXX_Inferno_XXX
Posted 3/13/2012 8:45:43 AM
message detail
You basically have a choice. You can submit to him and he claims he will spare your squad and earth until the next cycle because he is impressed that you were able to make it this far. This is when the motive of the reapers is more clearly established. Harbinger reveals that in the previous cycle, the prothean empire became too vast and they began to control all the other races, which would have prevented all of our races from developing. However, through more discussion, Shepard can uncover their true motives. They fear that they will be rivaled by something more powerful than they are (that this cycle will create AI that can topple the reapers). This implies they are merely fearful for their own survival and that is why they purge all life but they convince themselves they are protecting us.
Either way, you can submit to him and save your people or take your chances. Having 4000 EMS, not submitting to him you would lose everyone, but still eventually get to the three choices we actually got (more on this in a second). Having 5000+ and depending on how you resolved conflicts between characters and races, certain people will live or die.
After rejecting him (whether you lose everyone or not), you end up in the area where vent boy was but hes not there. It's just you and "Harbinger". He explains that a new solution is needed. The solution he tries to convince you to take is merge (to perseve his kind). But if you have high enough reputation once again, you can open the control and destroy option. Harbinger tries to talk you out of it by discussing how your races are divided and mentioning the geth incident. You convince him otherwise, and it is at this point, the control option opens next where he admits that shepard may have a perspective he never considered. Harbinger tells Shepard that if he destroys them, the relays will be destroyed as will the geth (which is true. This is the only ending where the relays are destroyed).
Now for the four endings.
If you submit to him before the three main choices, the reapers leave earth but end up wiping out every other race who haven't proved themselves worthy. Shepard dies.
If you merge, the reapers leave and like the ending we got, we see all the characters we know with green eyes as a green light brightens the sky. Shepard dies for the same reasons in the ending we got.
The control option, the reapers leave. Everyone cautiously celebrates while joker and your LI look up to the sky and wonder what exactly happened. Life goes on but its hinted that the reaper threat may return. This ending ends on a cliffhanger.
The destroy ending does destroy the relays, but its implied that with all the races on earth, they, together, will restore what they lost and will attempt to work together. if shepard lives, your LI leading your squad, will be looking for you. You are beamed back down to earth (its assumed shepard was somehow blasted into the beam? this is the only questionable part). It ends with shepard's hand coming out of the rubble and breathing. Still a cliffhanger of sorts, but you can assume they will find him/her obviously.
I dunno if it's legit, but it's better than what we got.
e: Honestly, the 'I know a review guy' thing smacks of fabrication.
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This sounds soo good and varied that: a) a fan came up with it b) an ea executive shot it down last minute cause of too much complexity for the halo crowd
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(http://nukelol.com/images/forumimages/me_3_twit.png)
Post-ending DLC incoming. Calling it now.
EDIT: Also this (https://twitter.com/#!/masseffect/status/179686320568926209)
EDIT2: Maybe there's some merit to the "trolling" idea.
(http://www.nukelol.com/images/forumimages/bw_troll.png) (https://twitter.com/#!/whateverlulz/status/179685859078049792)
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With all the hate going on, at bioware's place, I wouldn't have resisted either.
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Sounds like a lot of talking with reapers. I could listen to reaper voice processing forever.
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I've had enough of this ****...
I
AM
ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL
Calling it here and right now: April 1st: Release of FREE DLC "One More Story..." with the real endings of ME 3
Reason will be something like "They couldnt finish it in time but were in contractual obligation to release at date" or something similar
RELEASING CONTROL
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If that was true, it would have been ****ing awesome
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Casey Hudson is a good guy. He's not the kind of PR flack who would straight-up lie about something like this. Yet we didn't end up with 'the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it'; we had three palette-swapped cutscenes. So the question is - what happened?
That was 2/17 and, as the very first question states, the game had gone gold by that point. I find it very difficult to believe that the ending was modified after the game went gold which only leaves a few options (along the lines of LOL WE SENT THE WRONG BUILD OFF LOL or "I, uh, I haven't played the game") if Hudson isn't a liar.
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The idea that anyone isn't capable of shilling for a paycheck is one I find hard to credit.
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Some people believe their reputation is more important than money. It used to be that MOST people though that.
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http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Kaloneous/Mass_Effect_3_%28True%29_Ending_DLC_Revealed!!!!
Wild speculation? The guy was apparently dead-on about multiplayer DLC before this.
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http://i.imgur.com/xjXdX.png
If Bioware really pulls this off, they will go down as the biggest trolls in history
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I want to believe
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April / Free / "The Truth"
got 2 out of three
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Imagine that humans develop starflight and go to an ocean planet. For millions of years they watch over this planet from their boats on the surface. Every few thousand years they fish all the fish to death and wait for fish to evolve again from the life that's left.
Finally, after said millions of years, a brave fish flops his way up onto one of the boats in reverse scuba gear. Why are you doing this, he begs. Why do you wipe out all fish in the ocean every fifty thousand years.
Well, the million year old human boat admiral says, some day those fish will evolve into land animals, and overfish all the fish in the ocean to death. We're trying to prevent that by only killing most of the fish in the ocean.
But now that you're here, we're going to give you three choices: you can blow up all the boats and also kill all the lungfishes that sometimes survive on land, plus you'll poison the seas and cause mass die-offs. Or you can become supreme captain of all the boats. Or you can turn all fish into fishboats because you brought along a nine-volt battery to plug into our boat engine.
No matter what happens all your fish friends are going to be stuck in a pond, **** you
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I want to believe
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Some people believe their reputation is more important than money. It used to be that MOST people though that.
Few people believe that their reputation is worth more than the ability to continue living in the style they do at this moment. Few people ever have.
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(http://www.nukelol.com/images/forumimages/photo_1.png)
Hahaha, oh wow.
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I just came here to post that and I'm going to post it anyway so that everyone can see it twice
(http://i.imgur.com/Dmog4.png)
jesus christ, denton
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Yeowch, Bioware's going to need skin grafts after that burn.
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I don't think this has been mentioned here, so. Rememer that PTSD Asari commando (http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/que6a/oh_joker_im_so_sorry_me3_spoilers/)?
Posted this on a forum yesterday, but hadn't seen anyone bring it up here, and I thought it was a really...I don't want to call it "nice," but it was a definitely... a touch.
You know how Joker talks about his family that lives on a farm way out on the outskirts of civilized space?
You know that PTSD Asari at the Citadel Hospital that talks about how she was stranded on a farm way out on the edges of civilized space?
The girl she rescued, accompanied, ended up killing the indoctrinated family of, and eventually murdered to keep her crying from alerting nearby enemies was named Hillary.
Joker's sister is named Hillary.
That Asari Commando with PTSD in the Citadel Hospital killed Joker's entire family, and none of the characters even know its happened. But the really terrifying part was when I realized what this meant for the implications of the "Allow the patient to have a gun" option that comes up at the Spectre Terminal.
She probably knows.
She spent several days with Hillary. They probably had a bit of a rapport going. Hillary would would be worried sick about the family that she knows is on the farm and the brother who's personal pilot to the famous Commander Shepard and doing who knows what. I wouldn't be surprised if the Asari get to know Hillary pretty well, and lots of trivia about her family members.
And how could you not mention you brother is best friends with Commander Shepard? And I bet he's famous enough at this point that the Asari knows who he is. So she stages this rescue mission, and it goes bad, and she kills the family. And then, to save herself, probably thinking it won't even buy her that much more time anyway, she kills Hillary.
By some miracle, she's rescued, and she ends up back on the Citadel. But, she knows who she's killed. And she can't take it. She wants out. She knows. And every time Shepard walks through the lobby she knows. And every time we pause over her or her doctor's shoulder, listening to this story we think is totally unrelated to us, she's panicking inside. "Does Shepard know? Does Shepard know I know he knows!?" And she keeps pleading for the gun nobody will let her have.
And then, one day, an orderly gives her a package.
"Special Spectre Authorization"
A gun. Straight from Commander Shepard.
To most of us, hitting X on that report was just "paperwork."
But to her, especially if you played a Renegade Shep, we might've basically been saying "Yeah, get it over with."
http://i.imgur.com/xjXdX.png
If Bioware really pulls this off, they will go down as the biggest trolls in history
The only way a DLC ending works is if it's free (yes, he did say it would be). Well, I'm projecting, but as it stands I'm disappointed with the ending. If it turns out they half-assed the ending to extract more money from me at a later date that disappointment will transform into incandescent rage. I'm not sure if that would take me into "Not another penny to you mother****ers for anything ever" territory, but it'd be close.
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I had totally missed that bit about the PTSD Asari commando, I had even forgotten Joker had mentioned his sister. But damn, I have no words.
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Yeah, I've been ranting about how cool that connection is. It makes me angry because it's awesome and then the ending ruins it. ****
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quoting it in case it goes away ever
* SNIP*
I dunno if it's legit, but it's better than what we got.
e: Honestly, the 'I know a review guy' thing smacks of fabrication.
A tad better..maybe. But not much different. The only big differnce in the end is that all the realys aren't destroyed in all endings, and that's hardly "better". Or it might be for the crowd that thinks only happy endings are valid.
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By comparison to the above brilliance this guy is just a dick, but still
(http://i.imgur.com/9QKNJ.jpg)
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An other buuuurn :lol:
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That guy is a douché, but I can't disagree with his burn
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That guy is a douche, and ...
that's it, really. Why would I agree with him?
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Given that we had the game's lead designer flat out lying to us after the game had gone gold I don't feel the need to be particularly nice to BioWare about this debacle.
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If he had been more creative in "burning" Bioware (and really, what a childish notion is that?), I'd have laughed and moved on. But this just lacks effort.
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much like this game's ending (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-downsrim.gif)
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See, now that was good. That I can agree with.
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http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1
Gahaha. Damn BioWare, you really thought you were being dark and edgy. The Mass Effect series is not Inception.
Sort of puts a nail in the coffin of indoctrination theory.
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Threads on fire off the shoulder of Walters. Talimancer tears glittering in the dark near the Chris Priestly posts
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(http://i.imgur.com/np0i4.png)
entire ME3 story forum locked down, this is awesome
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Hey guys, I hear locking down discussion on the Internet is effective.
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Wow, BioWare... just wow.
This is why I don't buy hyped games on release day. I'm sure I will eventually buy ME3, but it sure as hell isn't going to be for full price; not after reading how BioWare has basically (and knowingly) screwed the pooch.
Just once I'd like to play a BioWare game that was consistently well-written throughout (and internally consistent, I might add). DA:UE was pretty close, but the ME series has been a bit of a letdown throughout... and it sounds like ME3's ending just made it worse.
Such a shame.
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I actually find this incredibly funny now. It's like BioWare goes to someones house and starts a fire. And all the people go ape**** "FIRE FIRE AAAAH" but then some people recognize that the fire is in a part of the house where it wont spread and people calm down. Then in comes this guy with a big can of gas and starts dowsing the rest of the house.
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much like this game's ending (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-downsrim.gif)
Ziiiing :lol:
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http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1
Gahaha. Damn BioWare, you really thought you were being dark and edgy. The Mass Effect series is not Inception.
Sort of puts a nail in the coffin of indoctrination theory.
It's a work of fiction. It's not a documentary or a record of something that actually happened.
Alternate interpretations are not really in the original writer's hands in any published work of fiction - the readers (or players in this case) are always free to have their own take on the events, even surpassing the Word of God type revelations from the writers.
Since some parts of the ending are not logically consistent, I can freely draw conclusions that something in it didn't add up, and I choose to interpret what I saw so that Shepard was incapacitated by Harbinger's beam for unknown period of time, dreamt up the Citadel episode, and somehow got dragged in the middle of some debris. After unspecified amount of time, he or she wakes up if the EMS value was high enough.
After that, what happens is all up to my imagination, or someone else's imagination maybe.
I certainly feel better about the game when I think that the Citadel episode never really happened, and that everything after being hit by the Reaper beam was a hallucination or dream. Obviously, it leaves it completely open what actually might happen if and when Shepard wakes up, but I can take that over the proposed (apparent) canon endings*. That way, I can have several scenarios unfolding from that point onward, and I think that is actually gives tremendous potential for Mass Effect fan fiction, to provide N amount of alternate endings that still sort of can be reasoned to fit with what the game shows you.
I must say though that I feel rather bad for the writers of the ending, as well as Bioware's Twitter account managers. The writers because obviously no one intentionally wants to make a bad story - they thought it was a good ending, and then everyone starts slamming them left, right and center, and the controversy involving the ending largely overshadows the general feeling of the game, which was great! The good parts of ME3 are treated rather unfairly in my opinion, and the public relations people are getting the brunt of the ****storm.
In a way, the greatest testament to the quality and success of Mass Effect series is the strength of the reaction the endings sparked in so many players. People don't get so worked up for something they don't care for.
*My biggest reason to disapprove the current endings is not that I dislike the end results themselves. They're not too bad as such, and I don't specifically desire for a "golden ending", but there is not enough variation in them. that the style of writing has an abrupt shift after entering Citadel. It doesn't follow through on any of the different variations that the Galaxy might be in due to Shepard's choices, and the final choices themselves are basically the Reapers giving Shepard an ultimatum to choose between three options - two of which mean certain death and the last one doesn't explain why the Geth and EDI are getting destroyed along with the Reapers - if the Destroy algorithm or whatever was smart enough to differentiate between "synthetic life" and regular machinery and computers, why wasn't it smart enough to differentiate between the Reapers and the Geth, or the Reapers and EDI? They are quite different entities after all. They have no shared ancestry, and the only thing common to Reapers was the Geth's new processing code. It just smells like a false dichotomy that you must choose between destruction of ALL synthetics, or destruction of none.
And I don't even want to go into the bad biological and technological knowledge that seems to be behind the "Synthesis" ending. New DNA indeed.
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Finally finished it after coming home from an evening at the bar to celebrate a friend's 21st birthday.
Being half drunk greatly improved the ending, I think.
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I must say though that I feel rather bad for the writers of the ending, as well as Bioware's Twitter account managers. The writers because obviously no one intentionally wants to make a bad story - they thought it was a good ending, and then everyone starts slamming them left, right and center, and the controversy involving the ending largely overshadows the general feeling of the game, which was great! The good parts of ME3 are treated rather unfairly in my opinion, and the public relations people are getting the brunt of the ****storm.
I think the issue people are having isn't that the endings are necessarily bad(dunno haven't played it), but that they bear little to no relation to the events that happened before "the end" started, an that it seems to be almost completely self-contained within itself.
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That is a big part of it; essentially the endings condense everything you do into a single numerical value, and that combined with your three choices determines how well you do.
Of course it's really hard to do badly enough to get one of the endings where the colourful effect destroys everything and everyone, so effectively it's still just three endings, and worse still they are almost identical to begin with.
For a more in-depth analysis of the endings,
http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/ (http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/)
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http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1
Posting the thread of lies, so i can find it later
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Quoting above link here in case it gets disappeared:
Whether or not you enjoyed the conclusion to Mass Effect 3 (personally I feel
it tarnished an otherwise masterful series) please take a look at the
pre-release quotes below from websites and interviews with the game's
developers, writers and producers.
Does all that talk of meaningful player choice, multiple significantly
different endings and closure for the characters and series not seem,
at the very least, strange?
I believe Bioware can be legitimately accused of, at best, fudging the
truth if not outright deceit given the inconsistency between notions
of choice, closure etc. expressed before the game was released and
the ending as it currently stands.
In my opinion Bioware produced a badly written, ill-conceived shambles
of an ending riddled with plot holes and logical inconsistencies but
even if you loved the final moments of this great game do you really
think what was stated in the interviews below has been proved true?
Maybe Walters, Gamble, Hudson et al will be proved right when a decent
ending is released via (presumably free) DLC that explains the
original ending was just some sort of hallucination/indoctrination.
I'm not holding my breath waiting for that though.
Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/mass-effect-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/05/qa-mass-effect-3s-mac-walters-on-how-the-game-tries-to-reach-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/334598/interviews/mass-effect-3-weve-brought-back-a-lot-of-what-was-missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/interview/mass-effect-3-has-many-different-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-02-bioware-mass-effect-3-ending-will-make-some-people-angry
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/28/casey-hudson-interview-mass-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/casey-hudson-bioware-co-created-mass-effect-3-with-the-sometimes-cranky-fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”
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ALERT ALERT:
Casey Hudson acknowledging player outrage, making semi-vague and defensive but still slightly hopeful statements: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/324/index/10089946
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ALERT ALERT:
Casey Hudson acknowledging player outrage, making semi-vague and defensive but still slightly hopeful statements: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/324/index/10089946
I'm hopeful, but it still stinks of PR-dictated damage control.
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It really does.
I hope we get ending DLC, but frankly I hope BioWare never recovers from this damage. Vindictive as it might sound I'd like this to sting.
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I hope BioWare never recovers from this damage. Vindictive as it might sound I'd like this to sting.
Exaggerating much? Despite the ending, ME3 is still very good game and I'd hate all that go to waste just because of less than stellar ending. I for one hope that Bioware will take this to heart, remember and learn from it. And will be able to create many good games in the future as well. What happened with DA2 was much more serious than ME3. In fact, the difference is not even comparable. Bioware blew in both cases, but I am sure they have also learned from these mistakes.
How exactly not ever recovering from the damage be for the better? That would suck because it would likely mean we would get even less good games if Bioware is out of the picture or is reduced to one of those no-name developers in tight(er) leash.
Bioware and EA have heard you already, get over it and enjoy the game. Or not, your choice.
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I don't think it's vindictive. I say that not because of the ending or the content of the game, but because the developers were extraordinarily duplicitous (a more theatrical man might even say fraudulent!) in their pre-release marketing.
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So they sugar coated the ending in their pre-release marketing? Big surprise there, it was marketing. You can't expect them to say "We do have these ending possibilities pieced together but honestly, it's kinda a letdown."
All this rage about ending has shadowed all other ME3 related discussion. Almost every single post is about the dead horse that used to be the ending. Could we already move to other subjects discussing the game?
No? Well, too bad then.
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There's been plenty of discussion concerning other aspects of the game (more elsewhere than here). The problem is that everything you do in the game - in the whole series - is colored by the arrow of causality. You do something and think 'wow, can't wait to see what the consequences of this action/decision are!' and then you think forward and inevitably it all arrives at that cluster**** of a finale.
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The multiplayer is quite fun, although has a few elements that make little sense. I shall list a few here.
1. Kill Important Personnel waves. This really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering the things you slaughter are either:
-Indoctrinated and modified Cerberus troops
-Geth
-Reaper modified/huskified things.
None of these makes much sense for being "very important" in any context of traditional chain of command. Cerberus might be closest, but even so they're still faceless mooks and have no characters of importance among their ranks.
Practically, this mode is also often a huge pain in the arse because there is an arbitrary time limit for killing the "priority targets", and if you fail to kill the single flagged target in time, the whole mission is a failure. What's this supposed to accomplish? You're going to kill all of them anyway to get to the next wave! What does it matter how long that takes or what order you kill all the things in?
This is especially silly when you are getting swamped by Brutes and Banshees and you're supposed to kill an important Cannibal or Marauder.
2. Banshees.
3. Resupply packs not giving enough medi-gel. I can understand that the stuff in them is randomized but medi-gel is probably the most important consumable item you can get from those packs, competing closely with the missiles. Might be better if there were a limited medi-gel supply on the maps themselves.
4. Banshees.
5. Sticky controls. Sometimes Reviving your team mates is a huge pain in the arse, sometimes melee doesn't work, sometimes heavy melee doesn't work. And it takes rather long for the character to start responding after being revived, but that might be game mechanic.
6. Banshees.
7. Lag-sensitive netcode.
8. Banshees.
9. Map glitches, although this thankfully doesn't happen often. An interesting variation can happen in Noveria (Firebase White); Banshees can charge to that elevated balcony which is behind the "camping point" on the walkway, but in this case it actually makes it easier to deal with them, since once they get there they usually also stay there, and their ranged attack can be quite easily evaded as long as you see it coming. Then you can just shoot them up.
10. Banshees, and this requires a bit of elaboration.
Even as a boss type enemy, the Banshees are rather hideously overpowered compared to Atlas mech or Geth Primes. They can move ridiculously fast with their biotic chain charge thingy, they have a wide area effect power that just destroys your shields, and as a final insult they have insta-kill grab of rather ridiculous range. Their ranged attack is a homing biotic blast which, although it can be evaded, is still very dangerous if it hits you. They also have ludicrous amount of armour hitpoints; their barriers aren't all that strong, but they can recharge them if they aren't under continuous attack. Thankfully the armour doesn't regenerate.
Brutes and Ravagers are also hideously annoying, but they don't feel unfairly out of balance. They don't really feel too much more dangerous than, say, Phantoms or Geth Pyros. The Reaper faction SHOULD be the hardest of them all, but as it is, the Banshees are pretty much the single most horrible thing I have ever had to deal with in any computer game. In single-player, they thankfully don't make that many appearances and when they do, you can sort of manage with them, but in multiplayer they are single-handedly responsible for making the Reaper faction such a difficult enemy.
However, I'm not sure if I would support them being nerfed or not. They are also hideous and creepy, and the sound they emit is awfully horrifying, but these things are actually good design features, and the terror they inspire in game really matches their appearance, the way they move, how they sound. Maybe it should remain something that we love to hate.
Overall it's great fun though.
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1. Kill Important Personnel waves. This really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering the things you slaughter are either:
-Indoctrinated and modified Cerberus troops
-Geth
-Reaper modified/huskified things.
None of these makes much sense for being "very important" in any context of traditional chain of command. Cerberus might be closest, but even so they're still faceless mooks and have no characters of importance among their ranks.
Practically, this mode is also often a huge pain in the arse because there is an arbitrary time limit for killing the "priority targets", and if you fail to kill the single flagged target in time, the whole mission is a failure. What's this supposed to accomplish? You're going to kill all of them anyway to get to the next wave! What does it matter how long that takes or what order you kill all the things in?
This is especially silly when you are getting swamped by Brutes and Banshees and you're supposed to kill an important Cannibal or Marauder.
Honestly ? who cares ? Multi doesn't have to make sense in any way. Plus, objective-based waves are a great addition to multi. Would you want to just have to kill wave after wave after wave after wave ? and, to be honest, the "holding the position" objective is faaaaaaaaar more difficult and frustrating than the "kill important enemies" objective.
2. Banshees.
4. Banshees.
6. Banshees.
8. Banshees.
10. Banshees
Yeah, like you said, those should remain the ennemies we love to hate. And they aren't actually THAT difficult. This is basically what you have to do :
1) Kill them as soon as possible (note that under sustain fire, they can't teleport)
2) Failing #1, run the **** out and kill everything else. Banshees aren't very dangerous on their own, as long as you aren't stupid enough to stay at execution range. Infiltrator's cloak or Vanguard's charge helps a ****ton lot to get out of the dangerous zones.
3) Missiles. Especially if there's a brute, a ravager or another banshee close enough to kill them all in a single missile. Happens quite often in silver. Remember that your own missiles can't kill you nor your teamates. Aim at the floor to make sure you don't miss.
3. Resupply packs not giving enough medi-gel. I can understand that the stuff in them is randomized but medi-gel is probably the most important consumable item you can get from those packs, competing closely with the missiles. Might be better if there were a limited medi-gel supply on the maps themselves.
Don't use medigel unless you really have to (aka revive time running out or trooper going to execute you). Especially if you have good teamates with you, and especially if they are infiltrators with cloak. Medigel is rare, but we can get as many revive as we want. Hell, I nearly spend as much time reviving teamates than actually killing stuff. Actually, if you're at the end of a wave and you still have teamates alive and kicking, let yourself die rather than waste a medigel.
Also, equipment packs have 100% chance to give you 5 medigels for 20k. If you ever run out of medigel, buy some of those. Oh, and there are random items that can increase the number of medigel you carry in each game. I can already carry 3 medigels instead of 2.
5. Sticky controls. Sometimes Reviving your team mates is a huge pain in the arse, sometimes melee doesn't work, sometimes heavy melee doesn't work. And it takes rather long for the character to start responding after being revived, but that might be game mechanic.
9. Map glitches, although this thankfully doesn't happen often.
Yup, I blame lag on that. It's usually the only sign of any lag whatsoever, since the game has client-side hit detection. I also found that going in and back out of cover sometimes solves the melee bug, too.
7. Lag-sensitive netcode.
Riiiiiiight. I... don't think a netcode that isn't sensible to latency is physically possible.
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I'm a bit late, having finished the game yesterday. I tried to avoid spoilers as best I could, but short of shutting off my router and phones, and locking myself in the house, it was completely impossible to avoid the outcry of the enraged internet over the endings. Not surprisingly, I didn't find the endings nearly as bad as I expected based on the reactions of the furious internet population.
To be clear, I don't find the endings actually good - I just don't find them too worse than some other game's. It's interesting to see the amount of emotional response the community has given this. I think that, what we've been given could have been a solid base - a bare-bone story guideline for the endings. What's missing, however, is essential information that should really give us some closure here. First of all, we've spent 3 games and countless DLC's over the course of 5-6 years making choices in this world they've come up with. We expected these choices would amount for something more than differently colored explosions - and they didn't. Secondly, they said that they didn't want to give you too much information you didn't "need to know". They went way too far and cut out so much of it that nobody can make out what really happened after the beam run. Lots of questions remained unanswered.
There's been some response to the outcry. Articles calling the games "art" and saying that it is what it is, and shouldn't be changed because the consumers want it. Some went so far to compare this to famous painters changing their paintings according to people's preferences - which is a bull**** analogy; you can't compare a pure work of art to a mass consumer product that features some art, sure, but is primarily intended as entertainment.
But, Bioware doesn't need to change what happened with the endings. They could just add information that puts them in context and explains what really happened. As it is, I can't really blame people for suspecting that everything past the beam run was a dream - it certainly feels that way, because nothing really makes sense and everything is just.. off. Like in a messed up dream.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFq531vkNOY&hd=1
I think the first minute of this angry joe review sums up the playing experience of ME3 for most people. :p
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but i played with a mouse and keyboard
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oh no. OH NO. BIOWARE NO NO NOOOOOO
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oh no. OH NO. BIOWARE NO NO NOOOOOO
tell me more
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battuta help why doesn't this ending reflect any of the choices i made
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battuta help why doesn't this ending reflect any of the choices i made
there there, they did it to us all...
*pat pat*
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battuta help why doesn't this ending reflect any of the choices i made
I am not battuta but let me try...
EA
Mac Walters
EA
EA
DLC
EA
COWADOODY
EA
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battuta help why doesn't this ending reflect any of the choices i made
let me check my mac walters napkin loose-leaf notes
"LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY"
it's us, ransom, we're everybody and we're speculating. mac walters mission complete
battuta help why doesn't this ending reflect any of the choices i made
I am not battuta but let me try...
EA
Mac Walters
EA
EA
DLC
EA
COWADOODY
EA
I honestly think only one of these factors matters. I don't think this monumental ****up is the product of any external pressure. It's just a writer who decided to ignore the protests of his team and screwed everything up in the end.
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It feels like he'd been bingeing on Evangelion and wanted to shoe-horn in some ~DEEP~ to the series.
People who know me know that I'm not hugely enamoured with Evangelion's attempts to be deep, but at least they were foreshadowed throughout the series. Here, it came out of nowhere and just wrecked everything.
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It feels like he'd been bingeing on Evangelion and wanted to shoe-horn in some ~DEEP~ to the series.
People who know me know that I'm not hugely enamoured with Evangelion's attempts to be deep, but at least they were foreshadowed throughout the series. Here, it came out of nowhere and just wrecked everything.
Yeah. Even if ME3's ending had been well-written, well-executed, or even positioned anywhere near something a rational human might describe as 'complete', it still doesn't belong on Mass Effect 3: A Space Opera Video Game [RIGHT HOOK]. There aren't any themes of player agency vs. designer predetermination to pay off, nor is there any undercurrent of nihilism in the narrative. Everything gets darker and darker and the foreshadowing intimates that desperate sacrifices will be necessary -- so yes, Shep absolutely has to die -- but there is no tonal or narrative setup for an ending in which nothing means anything, everyone you've cared about or helped is dead or stranded, and Shep simply acquiesces to a choice between permutations of catastrophe.
At every previous point in the series you have been allowed to overcome impossible situations by arguing, shooting at things, or filling up your video game points meters with paragons and renegades. Previously in ME3 you solve several centuries-old galactic problems by shooting and yapping, then punch a space ninja in the sword because he stabbed your dying frogman buddy with his anime. Then suddenly it's all starchilds and Shep going along spinelessly and Joker looking over his shoulder in terror as if the ****ing Normandy just grew a rear window, what the ****
There is literally no point in doing anything in Mass Effect 3. You would be doing a favor to all your squadmates by leaving them in their homes so they can be with loved ones instead of getting stranded on the Jurassic Park incest planet. You shouldn't bother helping anyone on the citadel (including Kelly, Jacob, Liara's mom, and other recurring characters) because they will all die when the Reapers take over; instead you should show them mercy by shooting them in the head so they won't have to become husks or get gooed into reaper goo. You should collect only the minimum war assets required because anyone you bring to Earth for the fight is going to end up stuck there forever. And there's no purpose whatsoever in thinking about the future of galactic civilization while making decisions about the genophage or the Quarian/Geth conflict, because the end of the game reshapes galactic civilization so completely as to render past problems irrelevant and small.
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Joker looking over his shoulder in terror as if the ****ing Normandy just grew a rear window, what the ****
That part isn't a problem considering the entire rear half of the ship was removed. He was looking back through the hallway that leads to the cockpit...
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Joker looking over his shoulder in terror as if the ****ing Normandy just grew a rear window, what the ****
That part isn't a problem considering the entire rear half of the ship was removed. He was looking back through the hallway that leads to the cockpit...
i don't think this happens and it certainly hadn't happened at that point in the cutscene
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i don't think this happens and it certainly hadn't happened at that point in the cutscene
Oh. My bad, then. It's sort of hard to keep track of what is happening.
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I honestly think only one of these factors matters. I don't think this monumental ****up is the product of any external pressure. It's just a writer who decided to ignore the protests of his team and screwed everything up in the end.
And if I'm project lead/company owner I fire the dumbass to protect my reputation/largest and most popular IP.
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I honestly think only one of these factors matters. I don't think this monumental ****up is the product of any external pressure. It's just a writer who decided to ignore the protests of his team and screwed everything up in the end.
And if I'm project lead/company owner I fire the dumbass to protect my reputation/largest and most popular IP.
Unfortunately the project leader was with him every step of the way. They worked together closely on the ending (and apparently to the exclusion of the rest of the writing staff).
The BioWare company owners are way up there and probably don't have a ****ing clue what goes on in the development of their individual titles. I could be wrong though.
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Now, granted I don't own a company, but Bioware is a fairly small company, with 3 projects under development and one ongoing MMO to support. Now if I'm either of the Doctors, I'm at least having a weekly briefing on project status from the lead, and I'm taking a stroll through the cube farm and chatting with the staff every couple of weeks.
Of course I might not have drank the EA koolaid either...but I'm at least taking an active interest in the products my company is working on so I can speak from a position of authority when asked about them and making sure they aren't cobbled together **** that will make the company look bad either.
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I don't really know **** about the way the BioWare head honchos operate. It clearly didn't save the last ten minutes of Mass Effect 3, though. lots of speculation for everyone~
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battuta help why doesn't this ending reflect any of the choices i made
Did we play the same game? The ending you get perfectly reflects which color of explosions you chose.
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Wasn't saying that's how they work, I'm saying that's how I would do it.
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It's just a writer who decided to ignore the protests of his team and screwed everything up in the end.
Based on?
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I've always been somewhat annoyed at Mass Effect not being able to decide whether or not mass relays are absolutely necessary to get around, or not. I mean, starships can get to FTL on their own; you zip around star systems light years away from each other without using mass relays, which are more used as galactic highways between different areas of the galaxy. So considering how you get around on the galaxy map in all 3 games, one could deduce that nobody got stranded anywhere - the fleets merely lost a quick way to get to distant parts of the galaxy.
But then there's Vigil's description of how the Protheans got their clocks cleaned in ME1 - first the Reapers locked away the relays, everyone got stranded where they were, so there was no organized resistance; the rest was just centuries of Reapers cleaning house. Sure, being unable to use mass relays would have made it difficult to organize any sort of massive counter attack, but it doesn't seem to me that all the fleets in Earth orbit would have been downright stranded.
I can understand the "let's leave something to the player's imagination" ending to some extent, but leaving us with literally nothing is plain retarded. Someone thought he was being deep, and that someone was incredibly wrong, and just demonstrated he didn't understand what his own product was all about. You don't get the player to spend years making decisions of galactic importance, getting attached to characters, to throw it out the window at the last 10 minutes because it's time to get deep, dark and serious. In my opinion, they got vague at the wrong part. They explained the purpose of the Reapers, which was incredibly simple and disappointing. Someone decided that organics will always make synthetics which will in turn always wipe out all organics (apparently Geth and Edi fighting alongside organics in my cycle didn't make the kid avatar reconsider that theory).
So the solution is to use organics to melt them into goo which is used to make synthetics that wipe out all organics. Seriously? This was the Reaper's purpose that we spent 5 years listening about it being incomprehensible to our feeble little minds? It's not that incomprehensible, it's quite simple, and to be honest more than a little dumb. What they should have done instead is leave us in the dark about the purpose of the Reapers, maybe leaving a few hints here and there but making their motives dark, mysterious and incomprehensible. Where they should have been clear is the ramifications of the last 10 minutes of the game for 1) Shepard and his squadmates, 2) Earth and the Galaxy. I'd have been happy with that. And the effective war assets number should have impacted the game so endings include:
- very low EMS: worst ending. Earth destroyed due to Alliance being pretty much on it's own in the battle. Other races are to follow, Shep is dead, Reapers won, cycle repeats after advanced civs are gone.
- low EMS: bad ending. Reapers destroy Earth, Shep dies, but the other races got enough time to consolidate a counter attack which eventually drives the Reapers out. It's unknown when they'll return.
- medium EMS: Cycle broken, Reapers destroyed, but at the cost of Shepard, Earth and humanity.
- high EMS: Reapers destroyed, Earth survives, but Shep and his squadmates make the ultimate sacrifice to make it happen.
- very high EMS: All lived happily ever after. Reapers get destroyed, Alliance builds a new citadel in Earth orbit, Shep makes loads of blue children, Garrus moves to Omega to have a regular testing ground for gun calibration, Conrad Verner becomes Alliance councilor (touch of social realism here - always have the most inept grab the high political positions :P).
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Yeah. Even if ME3's ending had been well-written, well-executed, or even positioned anywhere near something a rational human might describe as 'complete', it still doesn't belong on Mass Effect 3: A Space Opera Video Game [RIGHT HOOK].
Disagree.
You might feel it doesn't belong, but that is irrelevant. There is no "does/doesn't. There only is.
At every previous point in the series you have been allowed to overcome impossible situations by arguing, shooting at things, or filling up your video game points meters with paragons and renegades.
Your point? It worked 100 times, it MUST work 101'st?
I'm sorry, but your idea that Shep can always overcome impossible odds is something I find repulsive.
There is literally no point in doing anything in Mass Effect 3. You would be doing a favor to all your squadmates by leaving them in their homes so they can be with loved ones instead of getting stranded on the Jurassic Park incest planet. You shouldn't bother helping anyone on the citadel (including Kelly, Jacob, Liara's mom, and other recurring characters) because they will all die when the Reapers take over; instead you should show them mercy by shooting them in the head so they won't have to become husks or get gooed into reaper goo. You should collect only the minimum war assets required because anyone you bring to Earth for the fight is going to end up stuck there forever. And there's no purpose whatsoever in thinking about the future of galactic civilization while making decisions about the genophage or the Quarian/Geth conflict, because the end of the game reshapes galactic civilization so completely as to render past problems irrelevant and small.
No point?
Looks like someone didn't get their happy ending and is now dissapoint.
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Trashman why do you always make ****ty posts? :confused:
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Trashman why do you always make ****ty posts? :confused:
Usually I try and defend Trashman, as he's something of the whipping boy here on HLP.
This time however.... I'm utterly 100% with Spoon here.
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Looks like someone didn't get their happy ending and is now dissapoint.
I dunno, people say this a lot but I've not seen many people asking for a happy ending - just an ending that feels like it responds to the choices we made and shows us the consequences, both on the personal and the galactic level.
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No point?
Looks like someone didn't get their happy ending and is now dissapoint.
THIS!!
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No point?
Looks like someone didn't get their happy ending and is now dissapoint.
THIS!!
uh, not this?
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No point?
Looks like someone didn't get their happy ending and is now dissapoint.
THIS!!
Uh no. The end doesn't make any sense, and doesn't reflect my choices through the game. I'm fine with sad, just not with stupid.
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The ending would have been more in line with the rest of the series if the Catalyst's AI had looked like a terminator instead of that kid.
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The ending would have been more in line with the rest of the series if the Catalyst's AI had looked like a terminator instead of that kid.
Or the person who died on Virmire or Saren or someone players actually gave a **** about.
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The ending would have been more in line with the rest of the series if the Catalyst's AI had looked like a terminator instead of that kid.
That was the first warning sign that something was amiss. Should've expected something like 3's end when taking that into consideration.
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The ending would have been more in line with the rest of the series if the Catalyst's AI had looked like a terminator instead of that kid.
That was the first warning sign that something was amiss. Should've expected something like 3's end when taking that into consideration.
I was just thinking that this was quite a bit like GL and the 3 prequels.
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Shep simply acquiesces to a choice between permutations of catastrophe.
Brought to you from an examination of a very bad book, this seems relevant to why we're reacting so badly: Bioware created exactly this situation, where the only options are what color would you like your monstrously evil act.
Such a world does not allow for heroism. When God and the Devil, good and evil, all demand exactly the same actions, then what can a hero do? Show up in the nick of time to help tie the damsel to the railroad tracks?
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Looks like someone didn't get their happy ending and is now dissapoint.
I dunno, people say this a lot but I've not seen many people asking for a happy ending - just an ending that feels like it responds to the choices we made and shows us the consequences, both on the personal and the galactic level.
Except that didn't seem like what you are asking for. Or at least it didn't to me. Mayhaps you didn't word it clearly enough?
Does every choice has to have massive consequnces? Does every choice have to have a massive payoff? Does every choice have to immutable and unchangable by future choices? Does there always have to be another way? (and if so, how many)
the answer to all above is no.
Sometimes, life is a b****. Sometimes things don't work out as you planed. Sometimes there is no perfect solution. Sometimes you make a choice to bake a cake, but then a future choice to use gas results in your kitchen blowing up. And no cake.
People think if the choice didn't pan out as they think it should, it is pointless/worthless. Yeah, I'm sure the krognan think curing the genophage is pointless just because the mass relays are gone. :rolleyes:
Trashman why do you always make ****ty posts? :confused:
Because I have to counter-balance the non-*****y ones?
However, if the roles were revered, and I was singing praises to ME3 and you were the one ripping it apart, you'd be still complaining....
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I'm sure the krognan think curing the genophage is pointless just because the mass relays are gone. :rolleyes:
Consider, then, where the Krogan were before the mass relays were introduced to them.
They were dying. They had destroyed their own biosphere in nuclear war, and ME3 actually makes it clear that without Salarian assistance the very atmosphere of Tuchanka would have killed them in time.
The vast majority of their population is offworld, fighting the Reapers, when the relays go down. They will never return home; they are dead, gone, lost to the Krogan, as there are few or no females among them.
By separating them from a huge portion of their population, by sending the Krogan and their leadership to the stars and trapping them there, does curing the genophage even matter? It may well not!
Think about this **** before you sperg out a dumb post like this.
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Wow, Trashman is defending ME3's writing. We're so far down the rabbit hole that we're climbing up the rabbit's ass.
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ITT: Trashman does the opposite of everyone else. What, is he a ****ing hipster now?
Anyway, the ending fails to conclude the series in a meaningful manner. I don't care what your POV is, you can agree with me on this matter.
Personally, I was hoping for a glorious death scene involving each of the crew members and Shepard doing something heroic in their final moments. Instead we don't even know who lived or died, and nobody besides Shepard or Anderson did anything interesting before (maybe) kicking the bucket.
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However, if the roles were revered, and I was singing praises to ME3 and you were the one ripping it apart, you'd be still complaining....
right now you're the one standing up for the quality of mass effect 3 which is kind of odd
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Trashman in this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R72CyfsUSEU
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(http://i.imgur.com/ms6Zg.jpg)
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that looks absolutely no different from ME3's ending aside from the changing of about two words here and there
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Trashman why do you always make ****ty posts? :confused:
Because I have to counter-balance the non-*****y ones?
no, you're not counter-balancing them, you're just covering them up with your ****ty posts (which are fairly ****ty btw)
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Lol, Trash thought it said *****y.
Profanity filter, dude, you can turn it off.
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I'm sure the krognan think curing the genophage is pointless just because the mass relays are gone. :rolleyes:
Consider, then, where the Krogan were before the mass relays were introduced to them.
They were dying. They had destroyed their own biosphere in nuclear war, and ME3 actually makes it clear that without Salarian assistance the very atmosphere of Tuchanka would have killed them in time.
The vast majority of their population is offworld, fighting the Reapers, when the relays go down. They will never return home; they are dead, gone, lost to the Krogan, as there are few or no females among them.
By separating them from a huge portion of their population, by sending the Krogan and their leadership to the stars and trapping them there, does curing the genophage even matter? It may well not!
Think about this **** before you sperg out a dumb post like this.
They are not "traped". The mass relays may be gone, but you still got ships and tehy still have FTL drives. They are slow compared to mass relays and what took minutes/hours now takes months. But still not trapped.
Also, the Krogan seem to survive perfectly fine on Tuchanka. Without the genophage, they can breed rapidly, so re-populating will not be an issue.
People seem so hanged up on the "mass relays blown" bit..because they can't prevent it and they want the ME universe to remain unchanged. The Devs did say ME3 is an end but also a new begining. At least in that they didn't lie. I for one am glad they stirred the pot.
Destroying the mass relays is a small price to pay for survival.
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They are not "traped". The mass relays may be gone, but you still got ships and tehy still have FTL drives. They are slow compared to mass relays and what took minutes/hours now takes months.
Proof of this ?
From what I know of the ME universe, it could take centuries to standard FTL travel between two mass relays.
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Wow, Trashman is defending ME3's writing. We're so far down the rabbit hole that we're climbing up the rabbit's ass.
Yeah, paradoxical, isn't it. Never tough I of all people would be defending ME3.
But then again, I'm not entrenched in the "must hate everything about ME3" mentality. Or the opposite. Extremism and having blinders on is bad, M'Kay?
I argued against ME3 writing in places where it was bad.
And I'll argue for ME3 writing in places where it isn't. Altough in this case I shouldn't say "writing", but rather "design/story decisions". Because ME3 writing IS bad, but the decision to make an ending that changes the universe? Nope.
Forcing Sheps death? Not bad.
Forcing mass relays always blown? Not bad.
Forcing Normandy crash landing? Not bad. People are free to hate those and I can perfeclty understand way. Loss of a beloved character can totaly ruin the whole story for some people. A tonal shift can totaly ruin the whole story for some people.
But that ruination is totally subjective and not "bad" in of itself. It comes down to expectations and what one wants.
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no, you're not counter-balancing them, you're just covering them up with your ****ty posts (which are fairly ****ty btw)
I can crap out stuff that's less ****ty than your posts...you got a point?
(http://emotibot.net/pix/1269.jpg)
I guess you don't.
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From what I know of the ME universe, it could take centuries to standard FTL travel between two mass relays.
There was a lore bit on expeditions to a system or two not connected with relay networks, and the travel time was measured in years. Can't recall exactly but it was 1 or 2 years.
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Just gonna point out that a completely meaningless and entirely (and purposefully) flame-filled post like the above is the kind of stuff that got you banned from GD. You've also obviously confused "I hate the last 15 minutes of ME3" with "I hate everything about ME3" mentalities. The former is the generally agreed upon consensus by the vast majority of people I've heard who've finished the game. The latter has been entirely absent from this thread except for your inane rantings up until release.
Also I ****ing love how you're is talking about subjective quality in your posts. I almost care enough to go dig up the 50 posts before this that *****ed about how quality is absolute.
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Just gonna point out that a completely meaningless and entirely (and purposefully) flame-filled post like the above is the kind of stuff that got you banned from GD.
You know what? F*** YOU!
MY posts are flame-filled? MINE? You got to be kidding me! Since when was I making personal attack? I was talking about ME3 and ONLY ME3, while some people constantly keep taking cheap shots at me.
You know? Ad Hominems? Not actually adressing what I say, but just calling what I say garbage and inane ramblings? Thinly vailed attampts at "I don't like what you say, GTFO".
Also, I'm glad I got banned from GD. I moved on to forums with more civil discussions and fewer poeple with a stick up their arse.
You've also obviously confused "I hate the last 15 minutes of ME3" with "I hate everything about ME3" mentalities. The former is the generally agreed upon consensus by the vast majority of people I've heard who've finished the game. The latter has been entirely absent from this thread except for your inane rantings up until release.
I was reffering to myself there. So you missed the mark.
Also, your Argument Ad Populaum is meaningless.
and here we go..more Ad Hominems. Classy. Real classy.
Also I ****ing love how you're is talking about subjective quality in your posts. I almost care enough to go dig up the 50 posts before this that *****ed about how quality is absolute.
More or less it is. But how one judges it is important.
There is a difference between "I don't like this, therefore it sucks" and "I don't like this, but it's not bad, it jsut isn't what I would like". Planety of people are incapable of makign that destinction.
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There's a correlation between not liking something, and thinking it's bad.
That doesn't mean there's always a causation between the two, and even less that the causative reaction is always "Don't like this" -> "It's bad".
People usually tend to dislike things they think are badly done, but not liking something doesn't always automatically lead to thinking it's badly done.
In the case of ME3 endings, it's not what happens in the endings that makes majority of the people dislike them, but instead people think they are badly done in terms of story-telling and their dislike stems from that.
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I hearby declare this Irony Day, alternately know as "Trashman Stars Out His Own **** You Day".
To celebrate, I offer you his own inescapable failure to meet his own standards.
I can crap out stuff that's less ****ty than your posts...you got a point?
You know what? F*** YOU!
Ad Hominems? Not actually adressing what I say, but just calling what I say garbage and inane ramblings?
Now, to actually accomplish something useful with this post:
There was a lore bit on expeditions to a system or two not connected with relay networks, and the travel time was measured in years. Can't recall exactly but it was 1 or 2 years.
Citation plz, commentary in the game has never made specific references, most likely so we wouldn't end up seeing them in a position to break them. It has, however, indicated that trips by conventional FTL between relay distances are completely impractical, in part because the nature of Eezo-powered FTL drive means that it cannot be used for great time periods. (I have vague memories of about two weeks for most civilian ships but cannot swear to it.) You have to discharge the drive core or it grounds and melts your engineering spaces, forcing you to system-hop between groups of planets and spend an awful lot of dead time eating food and breathing air while not actually traveling. Without the relays it's probable that you'd be trapped in a galactic arm at the least, since ME2 made it clear that the core is out of bounds. Assuming you don't run into any areas lacking in planets or supplies you can pick up. (Which is an if.)
Earth is in a different galactic arm from Tuchanka, judging from the map. Those Krogan ain't never going home.
tl;dr the games have made it clear that conventional FTL is primarily useful on a micro-strategic scale within a group of systems, macro-strategic movement across the galaxy is dependent on the relays.
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There's a correlation between not liking something, and thinking it's bad.
That doesn't mean there's always a causation between the two, and even less that the causative reaction is always "Don't like this" -> "It's bad".
People usually tend to dislike things they think are badly done, but not liking something doesn't always automatically lead to thinking it's badly done.
Well put. Indeed, thereis no DIRECT connection. My point was that a lot of poeple don't bother asking themselves "why"?
Why does I like this.
Why is this bad?
Event X not making sense is bad. Period. If you don't like it, that's fine. And it's a legitimate complaint.
Character Y dying is not bad. That's not a legitimate complaint.
In the case of ME3 endings, it's not what happens in the endings that makes majority of the people dislike them, but instead people think they are badly done in terms of story-telling and their dislike stems from that.
True. Badly written. Altough I'm not sure of your "majority" claim is trully correct.
At least not the impression I'm getting from BSN forums.
There's a lot of people with legitimate concerns, who criticze writing, plot holes and delivery in several instances. Then there's also a lot of posts of people complaining how the crew beign stranded is the worst ending ever, or how the inability to save the mass relays is the worst thing ever.
Personally, there's a LOT of things I don't like about ME3. A LOT.
The kid (and the entire begining of the game actually), the stupid reapers, all the plot holes, TIM and Cerberus, etc, etc.... but only for some of those I can truly say they are bad decisions.
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I hearby declare this Irony Day, alternately know as "Trashman Stars Out His Own **** You Day".
To celebrate, I offer you his own inescapable failure to meet his own standards.
Well excuse me for finally responding to REPEATED provocations.
Both threads on ME3 have been full of you and your ilk taking stabs at me.. and I've been letting it pass unchallenged so far. But when I respond in kind? Oh noes! We can't have that?
"TM finally had enough! He is a such a bad, bad man!". I'm willing to bet everything you wouldn't be nearly as patient as me. In fact, that's a bet I already won because its' clear it wasn't me who started with the veiled insults.
Now I know you can't stand me having an opposite oppinion, but I hope I can at least expect more civility and less open hostility. Not that I'm holding my breath, but a guy's gotta hope.
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The scientists who built the Crucible could probably come up with a vastly improved star drive that will allow travel to Earth in a matter of weeks or months instead of decades. I mean, the fleets are not in any immediate danger by being in the Local Cluster but they will need to leave eventually. Problem is travel to Tuchanka would be many decades while travel all the way to Rannoch would be a matter of centuries with the fleet's FTL speed, so it requires new technology. Either way, it's not the end of the world. And honestly, I'd be surprised if many people actually expected Shepard to live.
Nobody really cares about what end result was, except perhaps the destroy ending's destruction of the Geth and of EDI. But they hate the retarded storytelling, anemic writing, and the Gainax-style ****ing conclusion to a 100+ hour series. And they hate how the final words are spoken by Buzz Aldrin, who sounds like the creepiest ****ing old man I've ever heard.
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The scientists who built the Crucible could probably come up with a vastly improved star drive that will allow travel to Earth in a matter of weeks or months instead of decades. I mean, the fleets are not in any immediate danger by being in the Local Cluster but they will need to leave eventually. Problem is travel to Tuchanka would be many decades while travel all the way to Rannoch would be a matter of centuries with the fleet's FTL speed, so it requires new technology. Either way, it's not the end of the world.
True, it isn't. However the Turians and Quarians trapped in Sol system face a dire food shortage. If the Quarians brought some life ships with them, they can sustain their population, but the Turians never had need for those and they are going to run out of supplies at some point. At which point the Turians will probably try to take over Quarian life ships, causing conflict between them. The only solution to this conflict of interests is to reduce the population of both Turians and Quarians in the system untl the lifeships can sustain both populations - and that's just assuming there are any life ships in the system.
Garrus will probably end up eating Tali after Normandy's fabrication facilities fail. And possibly before it, but that's a different story.
Meanwhile, there are also a lot of Krogan in the system, and while they probably didn't take females there with them so there won't be a krogan population explosion in the Sol system, they will still be present in significant numbers.
Furthermore, Earth is pretty much wrecked - the infrastructure is largely demolished, diseases and famine will be rampant, and to top it all, Earth wasn't all that healthy ecologically to begin with. One of the key reasons why humanity had to colonize as much planets as possible, as fast as possible, was because Earth's resources were getting pretty low and the population was really high.
The population probably won't be a problem until a few decades, however, considering how much damage the Reapers did (which we were never told, actually). And this isn't even touching on the amount of debris that will be raining down on Earth in quite significant chunks.
And honestly, I'd be surprised if many people actually expected Shepard to live.
But she DID live! It's canon! Which, of course, is one of the key factors why I think there may be something more than just idle fan speculation in the dream/hallucination/indoctrination theory...
Nobody really cares about what end result was, except perhaps the destroy ending's destruction of the Geth and of EDI. But they hate the retarded storytelling, anemic writing, and the Gainax-style ****ing conclusion to a 100+ hour series. And they hate how the final words are spoken by Buzz Aldrin, who sounds like the creepiest ****ing old man I've ever heard.
Hey, don't be too hard on Aldrin. He's not Alec Guinness, so he can't make retarded dialogue sound good and iconic, but he did a good job in my opinion, all things considered.
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1: Calm down Trashman, and stop letting your buttons be pushed.
2: At least the Princess wasn't in a another castle...
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http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-masses-are-effected
Watch it.
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Nobody really cares about what end result was, except perhaps the destroy ending's destruction of the Geth and of EDI.
Perfectly valid ending as far as endings go.
I know some people want to destroy the reapers abd save the geth, but you don't always get what you want.
I wanted to ally with TIM, but the game didn't give me that choice. Not gonna demand the devs get fired for it tough.
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http://penny-arcade.smugmug.com/photos/i-dfFJj7N/0/L/i-dfFJj7N-X2.jpg
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http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-masses-are-effected
Watch it.
Concur with this.
It was a **** ending, sure, but if someone won't petition an author for a less ****ty ending to their book that leaves them unsatisfied then I don't see how it's any more valid to demand the same of a videogame. I had no idea the ****ing thing was called 'Take back mass effect 3' until just now and it makes me want to start defending the choice of coloured explosions as opposed to seeing a ****ing retarded precedent set where gamers can just demand that the people who make the game simply recraft it when they don't like it. (Although it's been brought to my attention that this has already been done. Whatever.)
IMO it's a case of Caveat Emptor. You take the risk with any piece of entertainment that the developers may have cocked it up by your standards but you take the plunge anyway hoping to be entertained. You can't just chuck a hissy-fit and ask them to change it because of it.
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It was a **** ending, sure, but if someone won't petition an author for a less ****ty ending to their book that leaves them unsatisfied then I don't see how it's any more valid to demand the same of a videogame. I had no idea the ****ing thing was called 'Take back mass effect 3' until just now and it makes me want to start defending the choice of coloured explosions as opposed to seeing a ****ing retarded precedent set where gamers can just demand that the people who make the game simply recraft it when they don't like it. (Although it's been brought to my attention that this has already been done. Whatever.)
IMO it's a case of Caveat Emptor. You take the risk with any piece of entertainment that the developers may have cocked it up by your standards but you take the plunge anyway hoping to be entertained. You can't just chuck a hissy-fit and ask them to change it because of it.
Huge, expensive pieces of entertainment get their endings changed to improve them all the time. Blade Runner was a piece of **** in its original incarnation, and now it's considered the greatest science fiction movie ever made.
I don't think people should be listening to outlets like Penny Arcade and IGN when these websites have clear financial interests in staying in bed with developers. The Retake Mass Effect guys have been civilized, rational, and funny and they've condemned people who've gone too far in their attacks against BioWare. Yet apparently if you're good-natured and articulate you're '****ing retarded' and 'chucking a hissy-fit'. (Maybe you should save those terms for the people filling FTC complaints against BioWare.)
On top of all that BioWare has stated again and again that Mass Effect development is - in their own words - a collaboration between the developers and the fans! It's almost as if BioWare values and looks for fan input!
e: wow, this thread has gotten pretty bad :blah:
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IMHO, the Mass Effect series is like a Neal Stephenson novel. A great ride that leads to a somewhat lackluster ending. But that doesn't mean that the money and time spent on it was in any way wasted; for me, the last ten minutes of ME3 do not invalidate the fun I've had playing in the universe for close to a hundred hours before.
I, personally, think that everything that could be said about the ending has been said, whining about it some more won't change it. Whining about it here will certainly have no effect whatsoever.
For me, the worst thing about ME3 wasn't the ending. It was Kai Leng, who seemingly stepped out of the pages of some weird Mary-Sue-ish fanfiction, complete with ninja fangirls. Seeing Thane kick his ass thoroughly was immensely satisfying, as was shooting him in the face with a Widow.
I don't think people should be listening to outlets like Penny Arcade and IGN when these websites have clear financial interests in staying in bed with developers. The Retake Mass Effect guys have been civilized, rational, and funny and they've condemned people who've gone too far in their attacks against BioWare. Yet apparently if you're good-natured and articulate you're '****ing retarded' and 'chucking a hissy-fit'. (Maybe you should save those terms for the people filling FTC complaints against BioWare.)
Hang on. Penny Arcade? I don't think these guys have a 'need' to 'stay in bed' with developers. Developers have a need to stay in bed with them, as far as I can tell.
Singling out Retake ME3 for their poor choice of title isn't really fair, but then the FTC complaint was too new for CheckPoint (which is made by the nice people of LoadingReadyRun, not Penny Arcade) to take into account. I certainly agree that the FTC complaint is a new degree of silliness, but it's like the tip of a very silly iceberg at the moment.
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I've heard all kinds of bull**** analogies to justify the idea that Bioware should stick it out. From general "artistic integrity" comments to actually having it compared to a great painter changing a famous painting because the "fans" liked green sunflowers better.
The analogies are bull****. Mass Effect 3 isn't art, it features some art - there's a fundamental difference. Pure art doesn't have to conform to mass user standards. It can be whatever it's author wants it to be. Mass Effect is a mass consumer product, a piece of pulp, an entertaining space game where you make a lot of galaxy-affecting choices in an effort to save it. It's a piece of escapism, a fictional universe-based epic story to get lost in after a hard day's work. It is not a piece of classic literature meant to have us ponder about the reality of man's existence. It's a game where you command a space ship, seduce blue alien babes and shoot at zombie like things, feeling unique and like a galaxy saving hero - something most of us can really only experience through interactive fiction like this.
So, once you spent 5 years (or so) telling the fans to keep their saves, presenting them with options and decisions that you keep promising will have a meaningful impact on the endings, and then fail to deliver that, it's basically false advertising. When you spend that same time making them care about the characters, and then fail to provide any sort of closure regarding them, it's not false advertising, but it is bad storytelling. As is a plot hole ridden end that really makes no sense.
So why shouldn't we get a DLC that at least expands on the endings, fixes the plot holes, and puts things in context? I agree with the general concensus that the worst problems of the endings are the fact that they throw your choices out the window, and contain massive plot holes. People say they're fine with sad endings as long as these issues are addressed. I'm fine with them too, but in a game that's all about player choices, why force only sad endings? What is so wrong about coming home from work, immersing into a fantastic sci fi universe, winning over the blue alien babe and saving the galaxy while we're at it? I know dark and gloomy is fashionable these days, but damn it I just want a happy hero ending, and no - I don't think it's a bad thing.
But "artistic choices" and "artistic integrity" aside, there's a simple reason why this should be fixed. Before ME3 even came out, I always had a plan to first import my ME2 savegame, complete it, and then replay all 3 games in sequence. I don't want to now. The last few minutes of the game completely killed the replay value of the franchise - at least for me. For 3 games that can play quite differently each time you play them, that's a shame.
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IMHO, the Mass Effect series is like a Neal Stephenson novel. A great ride that leads to a somewhat lackluster ending. But that doesn't mean that the money and time spent on it was in any way wasted; for me, the last ten minutes of ME3 do not invalidate the fun I've had playing in the universe for close to a hundred hours before.
I, personally, think that everything that could be said about the ending has been said, whining about it some more won't change it. Whining about it here will certainly have no effect whatsoever.
I feel completely the opposite! Anyone opposed to this ending needs to direct that opposition at BioWare, consistently and repeatedly, in clear, polite, concise statements. The first step of PR damage control is to hunker down and hope the opposition burns itself out. If the fanbase wants to get past that reaction they'll need to sustain their effort - and so far they're doing a firm, polite, nearly professional job of it.
BioWare cannot ignore the outrage as long as the outrage can sustain itself. They're already seeing ME3's PC price chopped by $10-$20 on Amazon due to bad reviews. They're getting negative coverage in Forbes and CNN. Money tells, and as long this outrage focuses on a specific point, BioWare will be forced - by internal or external demand - to address that point.
Remember, this is a company completely dedicated to fanservice.
I've heard all kinds of bull**** analogies to justify the idea that Bioware should stick it out. From general "artistic integrity" comments to actually having it compared to a great painter changing a famous painting because the "fans" liked green sunflowers better.
The analogies are bull****. Mass Effect 3 isn't art, it features some art - there's a fundamental difference. Pure art doesn't have to conform to mass user standards. It can be whatever it's author wants it to be. Mass Effect is a mass consumer product, a piece of pulp, an entertaining space game where you make a lot of galaxy-affecting choices in an effort to save it. It's a piece of escapism, a fictional universe-based epic story to get lost in after a hard day's work. It is not a piece of classic literature meant to have us ponder about the reality of man's existence. It's a game where you command a space ship, seduce blue alien babes and shoot at zombie like things, feeling unique and like a galaxy saving hero - something most of us can really only experience through interactive fiction like this.
So, once you spent 5 years (or so) telling that fans to keep their saves, presenting them with options and decisions that you keep promising will have a meaningful impact on the games, and then fail to deliver that, it's basically false advertising. When you spend that same time making them care about the characters, and then fail to provide any sort of closure regarding them, it's not false advertising, but it is bad storytelling. As is a plot hole ridden end that really makes no sense.
So why shouldn't we get a DLC that at least expands on the endings, fixes the plot holes, and puts things in context? I agree with the general concensus that the worst problems of the endings are the fact that they throw your choices out the window, and contain massive plot holes. People say they're fine with sad endings as long as these issues are addressed. I'm fine with them too, but in a game that's all about player choices, why force only sad endings? What is so wrong about coming home from work, immersing into a fantastic sci fi universe, winning over the blue alien babe and saving the galaxy while we're at it? I know dark and gloomy is fashionable these days, but damn it I just want a happy hero ending, and no - I don't think it's a bad thing.
(http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-golfclap.gif)
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It was a **** ending, sure, but if someone won't petition an author for a less ****ty ending to their book that leaves them unsatisfied then I don't see how it's any more valid to demand the same of a videogame. I had no idea the ****ing thing was called 'Take back mass effect 3' until just now and it makes me want to start defending the choice of coloured explosions as opposed to seeing a ****ing retarded precedent set where gamers can just demand that the people who make the game simply recraft it when they don't like it. (Although it's been brought to my attention that this has already been done. Whatever.)
Book writers usually don't advertise one book and sell another.
Then again, book writers typically don't tell us what to expect of the book aside from a very general summary, so they typically don't face this type of issue.
However I am inclined to agree that a lot of people are overreacting and it is getting just as much of a problem as Bioware, because all those masses of raging posts full of personal insults is just detracting from the valid critique and feedback that Bioware could gather.
They are also making it easy to lump everyone who would prefer a different ending into same group, whatever their reasons may be, and call it "LOL GAMER ENTITLEMENT" or "RAGING FANBOYS NOT BEING HAPPY WITH UNHAPPY", or other things I've seen happening already.
Oh, and the Star Wars "Special Edition" analogy in that penny-arcade video is inaccurate for several reasons. If Bioware were to add an ending that actually makes sense, it would be significantly different from what Lucas did to his films, for two main reasons.
1. There was never any requests from fans to add modern day editing magic to the films, Lucas decided to do that on his own. Also, Mass Effect 3 has not been out for 30+ years
2. While mostly unfortunately ill-advised, Lucas' additions and changes in the original films did not significantly change the plot or, indeed, even add anything of importance, while an ending DLC would radically transform the storyline of ME3 (most likely for the better, but I'll withstand judgement until they actually make one).
Aside from all this, I have to say one thing: Whether it was intentional or nonintentional, the current ending of ME3 couldn't have been any better suited for a continuation with "IT WAS ALL JUST A DREAM" trope. It's all there - how things don't seem to make sense, how Shepard, Anderson, TIM and Catalyst act, how the Normandy's escape is depicted, and finally, showing Shepard alive, quite obviously not showing signs of unassisted orbital descent, or exposure to powerful space magic explosions and vacuum.
Like said, if they had planned this as a "dream" sequence, with a real ending to the series being released afterwards, it would actually be nearly perfectly executed.
And I am still somewhat suspicious about whether it was actually their plan to begin with. It would make sense that any stuff about a possible ending DLC would be NDA'd to Mordor and back again, and the statements about there not being an ending DLC could simply be them lying. There have been a few things that seem to hint that we haven't heard everything on this matter yet.
However it seems if that was their plan, they massively underestimated (or overestimated) the Internet as a collective, and the controversy is possibly starting to harm them more than any possible aggregated visibility can benefit them.
I'm still waiting to see how this all plays out. Meanwhile, I can enjoy an excellent game with a mystifying rather than disappointing ending - it's all dependant on how you choose to look at it, after all.
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One of the Alpha Protocol devs was all 'haha this is just angry nerds.' Then he played the game and called the ending 'a narrative and design atrocity'.
obsidian please buy bioware
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I feel completely the opposite! Anyone opposed to this ending needs to direct that opposition at BioWare, consistently and repeatedly, in clear, polite, concise statements.
No they don't.
FFS' it's just a game. Make your oppinion known, post on the forums, make a you Tube review if you want, but constant repetition and forcing is beyond interest in the game. That goes into "questionably sanity" territory.
The analogies are bull****. Mass Effect 3 isn't art, it features some art - there's a fundamental difference. Pure art doesn't have to conform to mass user standards. It can be whatever it's author wants it to be. Mass Effect is a mass consumer product, a piece of pulp, an entertaining space game where you make a lot of galaxy-affecting choices in an effort to save it. It's a piece of escapism, a fictional universe-based epic story to get lost in after a hard day's work. It is not a piece of classic literature meant to have us ponder about the reality of man's existence. It's a game where you command a space ship, seduce blue alien babes and shoot at zombie like things, feeling unique and like a galaxy saving hero - something most of us can really only experience through interactive fiction like this.
It's what the delopers want it to be. If developers WANT us to ponder about the reality of man's existance, it is their right. Just because it's a entertainment product doesn't mean a bunch of consumers have the right to dictate everything.
You know what? I DON'T want to ponder the issues of technological singularity and sentient AI. I hate those. Yet ME3 has them. By your logic I should start a never-ending war till BioWare changes it.
So, once you spent 5 years (or so) telling that fans to keep their saves, presenting them with options and decisions that you keep promising will have a meaningful impact on the games, and then fail to deliver that, it's basically false advertising. When you spend that same time making them care about the characters, and then fail to provide any sort of closure regarding them, it's not false advertising, but it is bad storytelling. As is a plot hole ridden end that really makes no sense.
There is closure, but not to your satisfaction. Big difference. You'e spot on on the plot holes tough.
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It's what the delopers want it to be. If developers WANT us to ponder about the reality of man's existance, it is their right. Just because it's a entertainment product doesn't mean a bunch of consumers have the right to dictate everything.
You know what? I DON'T want to ponder the issues of technological singularity and sentient AI. I hate those. Yet ME3 has them. By your logic I should start a never-ending war till BioWare changes it.
Except I never said anyone should start any sort of a "war". If anything, the notion that the fans are acting like a bunch of spoiled children that have been deprived of a toy has been way, way exaggerated. I found most fan reactions to actually be concise, stating exact reasons why they thought the endings felt out of place with the player character and the franchise in general, to actual constructive suggestions on how this could be fixed. Of course, there are always self entitled whiners, but in general I've found most fans keeping things polite and constructive.
The fact that there's so many of them who just felt the endings were bad doesn't automatically mean they're all screaming for Bioware's blood. If anything, Bioware should feel proud that their product evoked a response of this magnitude. But when a vast majority of their fans are unhappy with a certain feature of the product.. it's not a non-interactive, linear work of art. It's not a painting, it's not a symphony. It's an interactive medium, and changing or at least enhancing the ending isn't something I would consider necessarily bad, if they choose to do it and if they choose to do it right.
I agree that they don't have to do it. But actually doing it would make a vast majority of ME fans happy - and this can easily translate into profit. With things as they are, ME3 has little replay value for me, and I'm not even sure I'll want to buy any further DLC's that don't address the ending - because I really feel that additional events that happen prior to the end but don't change it would be irrelevant. I jus wouldn't be motivated to play, knowing it doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure I'd be interested in additional RPG series from them either, because I don't want to be invested into a universe and a plot for 5 years and then be let down at the end. Whether or not you think I'm right is irrelevant; a lot of fans will think this way, and since it all boils down to profit in the end, I wouldn't be surprised if they took steps to satisfy said fans.
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Hey people I don't think you're obeying the correct trashman post ****ty thread avoidance response protocol
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BioWare cannot ignore the outrage as long as the outrage can sustain itself. They're already seeing ME3's PC price chopped by $10-$20 on Amazon due to bad reviews. They're getting negative coverage in Forbes and CNN. Money tells, and as long this outrage focuses on a specific point, BioWare will be forced - by internal or external demand - to address that point.
And meanwhile, those of us who aren't that invested into the whole thing get increasingly bored by the endless repetition of the same talking points over and over again.
And I have to ask, what's the end goal here? Getting new endings and stories via DLC? Changing the way Bioware (or the game industry as a whole) does business? For all the talk about "voting with your wallet", going by the released sales figures, ME3 was a huge success. Not Modern Borefare or Twattlefield big, but pretty big nonetheless.
See, while I want more Mass Effect, I am not that hung up on the various ways in which the prerelease marketing was wrong and misleading, or how it was handled post-release. I bought a fun game, or series of games, and I would do it again in a heartbeat, despite all the negative feelings surrounding it on the intarwebs.
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And meanwhile, those of us who aren't that invested into the whole thing get increasingly bored by the endless repetition of the same talking points over and over again.
Endless repetition of the same talking points over and over again is unfortunately how campaigns work - whether political or otherwise.
And I have to ask, what's the end goal here? Getting new endings and stories via DLC?
yup
I want to be able to enjoy Mass Effect again.
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Except I never said anyone should start any sort of a "war". If anything, the notion that the fans are acting like a bunch of spoiled children that have been deprived of a toy has been way, way exaggerated. I found most fan reactions to actually be concise, stating exact reasons why they thought the endings felt out of place with the player character and the franchise in general, to actual constructive suggestions on how this could be fixed. Of course, there are always self entitled whiners, but in general I've found most fans keeping things polite and constructive.
Thing is, those things are very subjective as proven right here.
But when a vast majority of their fans are unhappy with a certain feature of the product.. it's not a non-interactive, linear work of art. It's not a painting, it's not a symphony. It's an interactive medium, and changing or at least enhancing the ending isn't something I would consider necessarily bad, if they choose to do it and if they choose to do it right.
There is a limit to any interactivity. In the end it is telling of a story. It must have an end. An end the writers make.
It being a game changes little to nothing.
I agree that they don't have to do it. But actually doing it would make a vast majority of ME fans happy - and this can easily translate into profit.
This could backfire spectaculary. Making another ending and charging for it would probably be the worst thing Bio could do right now.
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yup
I want to be able to enjoy Mass Effect again.
Same here. I want to.. want to replay all the games again. I don't atm.
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New ending DLC/expansion isn't all that crazy a thought. Other devs have done it.
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This could backfire spectaculary. Making another ending and charging for it would probably be the worst thing Bio could do right now.
You misunderstand. They definitely shouldn't make people pay for a proper ending, that would be complete bull****. But by making an end that doesn't make the majority feel that all of their actions so far have been pointless, you can get people invested in buying other DLC you come up with. I'm sure not buying some DLC about, say, Aria retaking Omega or some **** like that, if I know that a few days after that it all goes to hell anyway.
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Hey people I don't think you're obeying the correct trashman post ****ty thread avoidance response protocol
:wtf:
How low have the mighty fallen.....
I want to be able to enjoy Mass Effect again.
I don't. For you to enjoy it I mean. Given our different tastes, there's a 99% chance that an ending you'd like would be something I wouldn't. So I'd rather you suffer. :P
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This could backfire spectaculary. Making another ending and charging for it would probably be the worst thing Bio could do right now.
You misunderstand. They definitely shouldn't make people pay for a proper ending, that would be complete bull****. But by making an end that doesn't make the majority feel that all of their actions so far have been pointless, you can get people invested in buying other DLC you come up with. I'm sure not buying some DLC about, say, Aria retaking Omega or some **** like that, if I know that a few days after that it all goes to hell anyway.
Ultimatively, it could backfire weather they charge for a new ending or not.
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This could backfire spectaculary. Making another ending and charging for it would probably be the worst thing Bio could do right now.
You misunderstand. They definitely shouldn't make people pay for a proper ending, that would be complete bull****. But by making an end that doesn't make the majority feel that all of their actions so far have been pointless, you can get people invested in buying other DLC you come up with. I'm sure not buying some DLC about, say, Aria retaking Omega or some **** like that, if I know that a few days after that it all goes to hell anyway.
This is one of the amazing things about ME3. Everything you do to help anyone turns out to screw them over.
You can, for example, find Kelly Chambers on the Citadel. If you warn her, Cerberus won't kill her as a traitor. If you console her instead of berating her, she won't shoot herself out of guilt for informing on you.
If you take both of these good-hearted actions, she'll die screaming in a Reaper processing center, reliving her worst nightmares from the Collector abduction. It's more merciful to talk her into shooting herself.
As for Aria, yeah, it'd be pretty great to help her retake Omega, then shut down the relays and strand her there while society collapses.
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There is a limit to any interactivity. In the end it is telling of a story. It must have an end. An end the writers make.
It being a game changes little to nothing.
There is a limit to interactivity, yes, but it being a game changes a lot. In a movie, opera, book, or whatever, you follow a predetermined story from the side, to it's conclusion. In a game, you are the character. You look at the galaxy through Shepard's eyes, you change it through the choices you make, and you feel emotionally attached to the characters you interacted with over the years.
Following a story from the side, and participating in it actively through the protagonist's eyes make all the difference here.
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I was going to lock this thread, but then I remembered that I didn't care.
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Hey guys can we un-****tify this thread please, I think you all know Step 1
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Yes.
Let's discuss for a moment about the game before Marauder Shields' demise, and what was so good about it.
My favourite part of the game was the Tuchanka episode. Mordin is a character I always sort of identified with quite strongly, and I think his writing and dialogue and acting was one of the best in the whole game.
Would have liked to perform experiments on sea-shells.
Then, right after that I return to Citadel to speak with the Salarian ambassador and Thane gets killed by a horrible person, but I found that a very good closure for the character as well. Good stuff altogether.
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I found both Mordin's and Thane's storylines wrapped up perfectly. Especially Mordin's - that was handled beautifully. The Gilbert and Sullivan song at the tower was just the right touch.
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I really loved a lot of things in this game but Tuchanka was the crown jewel. The Citadel coup was also pretty good.
I'll even go so far as to say I liked Kai Leng as an antagonist. He didn't fit into the universe, his cutscene-compelled victory over the player was annoying, and he was a total prick, but all these factors combined into a sort of weird metanarrative impetus to kill the **** out of him.
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Kai Leng's death was an epic waste. They go through so much trouble to show us that Shep is under unbelievable stress and is starting to crack. Her comes Kai Leng - risking all life, killing a friend, possibly 2, maybe a love interest, taunting, and being an epic douche while doing it. The real Villains are not something that Shep can shoot/crush/kill, but here we have a volunteer surrogate who can be subject of physical violence, and he gives us ample reason to go completely bonkers.
Instead, one stab? That's it? Hell, I was a biotic, right until then I didn't even realize I had a tech blade.
This should've been a Mortal Kombat fatality, followed by a completely berserk Shepard smashing his corpse. Probably punctuated by EDI going "Shepard, sensors indicate he's been dead for at least 30 seconds. I think you can stop now."
Instead of a perfect scene of Shep cracking under the stress, we get one stab.
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Well, if there's one thing that's clear about Shep, it's that she doesn't crack when under pressure, or in active combat. It's when she has downtime that doubts start to creep in.
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Legion's entire story in ME3 brought a tear to my eye, and made me find a new distaste for the space gypsies.
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I...had mixed feelings about Legion's story. He had a lot of well written scenes, but I didn't think the new Geth writer really grasped what was interesting about them the same way Chris L'etoile did.
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There is a limit to any interactivity. In the end it is telling of a story. It must have an end. An end the writers make.
It being a game changes little to nothing.
There is a limit to interactivity, yes, but it being a game changes a lot. In a movie, opera, book, or whatever, you follow a predetermined story from the side, to it's conclusion. In a game, you are the character. You look at the galaxy through Shepard's eyes, you change it through the choices you make, and you feel emotionally attached to the characters you interacted with over the years.
Following a story from the side, and participating in it actively through the protagonist's eyes make all the difference here.
Not a big difference. You are NOT Shepard...that is an illusion. Shepard is largely a pre-defined character.
And at any point you are faced with limited choices. Peopel only complain when those choices are not what they watned (like some people complaing that had to work with Cerberus in ME2).
The developers/writers CAN make several vastly different endings. Or there can only be one ending. Either way, they are not obligated to make an ending you want. They're not even obligated to make several endgins.
Feeling emotinally attached changes little too.
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There is a limit to any interactivity. In the end it is telling of a story. It must have an end. An end the writers make.
It being a game changes little to nothing.
There is a limit to interactivity, yes, but it being a game changes a lot. In a movie, opera, book, or whatever, you follow a predetermined story from the side, to it's conclusion. In a game, you are the character. You look at the galaxy through Shepard's eyes, you change it through the choices you make, and you feel emotionally attached to the characters you interacted with over the years.
Following a story from the side, and participating in it actively through the protagonist's eyes make all the difference here.
Not a big difference. You are NOT Shepard...that is an illusion. Shepard is largely a pre-defined character.
And at any point you are faced with limited choices. Peopel only complain when those choices are not what they watned (like some people complaing that had to work with Cerberus in ME2).
The developers/writers CAN make several vastly different endings. Or there can only be one ending. Either way, they are not obligated to make an ending you want. They're not even obligated to make several endgins.
Feeling emotinally attached changes little too.
Good observation, they aren't required to make a decent ending. In fact, they could abstain from making an ending at all! Although if they want to keep any semblance of good relations with a large portion of their fan base, then it would be in their best interest to change the ending. In other words, nobody is required to buy their products either. Capitalism can be nice. :) I'm definitely not going to buy any more of their products until something substantial is released about the ending.
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Still haven't finished this game, merely having just received Grunt's "HEEEY SHEEPPAAAARDD!", why is it that only the Krogan know how to salute an old friend? :), anyways, I do have three kids in the house, and I must take the game slowly. So it's kinda funny to see all the world unravel in such a colorful fashion (ar ar ar) around me, and I'm still somewhat oblivious to all the shenanigans... (well, despite all the spoilers I didn't get to avoid that is).
So perhaps I'll be lucky and I will only finish this amazing ****ty game (which is it now I do wonder?) when BioWare releases their Ending DLC, which is a kind of new "ware", perhaps a "VaporFanWare" or something... to that effect. Jesus Christ what is it this game and its lousy puns? ;)
Anyways, the thread, apart from its lowest moments, is very funny and satisfying entertainment. Please go on ;).
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I...had mixed feelings about Legion's story. He had a lot of well written scenes, but I didn't think the new Geth writer really grasped what was interesting about them the same way Chris L'etoile did.
I loved Legion's sacrifice, but at the same time yes the new writer seemed to think that "differently sapient" wasn't as valid (EDI wanting to be more human, and doing the Data/Pinocchio routine was another case of this). At the same time he did open some plot hooks that would have made it more acceptable: basically using the Reaper code although against the Geth's self-determination was absolutely necessary because they realized how the dyson sphere made them too vulnerable and centralized, turning their greatest strength (networked intelligence, non-centralized) into their greatest weakness. (having to centralize)
They sort of bring that up with the "we became stupid and scared" but probably more was needed on that from legion's own perspective about why he felt it was necessary to use the Reaper code under those conditions.
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Amazon is offering full refunds of opened copies of ME3. People are treating this like some huge deal, but I don't actually know if that's out of the ordinary.
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Amazon is offering full refunds of opened copies of ME3. People are treating this like some huge deal, but I don't actually know if that's out of the ordinary.
Usually retailers, online or brick and mortar, refuse opened copies outright. Sometimes you can scream at enough people and get through, but if they are making it a no-questions-asked affair, that seems odd.
EDIT: Honestly, I'm basing this on past experience and precious common practice. Things may be different now.
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Yeah, I don't think this is a big deal.
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Found this interesting post from Arinn Dembo:
I think it's more to the point that if fans had been allowed to revise tragedies in Shakespeare's time, every single one of the greatest plays in the English language would have been magically transformed into completely, utterly forgettable and vapid crap.
And I'm sorry, but any writer knows better than to let the mob revise a work of art...just as any game developer knows better than to mistake the delivery of a working piece of commercial merchandise for a promise that "You will be entirely emotionally copacetic with the fate of your character and the universe at the end of this game."
The idiots who filed complaints with the FTC and the Better Business Bureau against Bioware really crossed the Rubicon, so far as I'm concerned. This issue had already crossed the line between gamer's rights and gamer's sense of entitlement a while ago; now it has become a declaration of war on the developers and publisher. If it was my decision to make, I would scrap any plans for an alternate DLC ending immediately; the money is better spent on lawyers, thanks to these morons. It's one thing to give your fans something they want, and it is another thing entirely to appease thugs and bow to threats and extortion. The former is understandable. The latter is fatally stupid.
The idea that this incident is a valid expression of consumer rights is preposterous. It is NOT ok to conflate your dissatisfaction with the ending to a story-line with a failure to deliver a software product in acceptable or finished condition. That is insanity, and quite honestly the fans who push for that reasoning are the strongest argument AGAINST any pandering whatsoever to the desire for a new ending. The idea that Bioware is legally culpable for your dissatisfaction with the ending to a story is dangerously absurd.
--Arinn
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That sort of implies that this is a masterpiece of some kind. It's not, it's the same 3 endings with just a few variations.
Angryjoe did a Top Ten list of why the ending sucks, he takes a lot of care to not be angry or rabid in his comments.
Lastly, it is well within the realm of possibility that Bioware planned the whole thing out. There is one ending where you see Shep gasp for breath before the black to the credits. It's entirely possible that these endings are fever dreams that Shepard is having as he lays in the rubble attempting to fight off some kind of directed Indoctrination.
There was an article on CNet earlier that suggested that Bioware has let slip that they are considering a DLC to revise the ending. I'm positing right now that this DLC is already complete because the ending was scripted this way. Ladies and Gentlemen, we've been trolled.
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Epic fail from the start. You can't compare a computer game in which you fight evil sentient space machines to Shakespeare. And I'm annoyed at people always trying to. This isn't an artistic masterpiece, nor was it ever meant to be.
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Epic fail from the start. You can't compare a computer game in which you fight evil sentient space machines to Shakespeare. And I'm annoyed at people always trying to. This isn't an artistic masterpiece, nor was it ever meant to be.
Sez who?
Computer games ARE partially art. And ME was tying to tell a deep, emotional, serous story.
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That sort of implies that this is a masterpiece of some kind. It's not, it's the same 3 endings with just a few variations.
The 3 endings might appear the same, but they are vastly different in consequences.
The long-terms consequences were never expanded upon, and you get no narration/textboxes telling you what happened, but that is not necessary.
They are PRESENTED lazily, but tehy are different.
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Just because Mass Effect 3's style of ending narrative is new and unconventional doesn't mean it's good. Why do you defend such awful writing? I don't even care about the ultimate outcome of the galaxy; the ending is like they hired Gainax to produce it.
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its pretty much assured that a new ending DLC is coming. due to the fact that the real ending script was leaked before ME3 was suposed to come out. so bioware nuked the leaked ending made a temp one, but because they had a date released this one. its quite obvious from the current ending that sheppard was indoctrinated ever since he got hit by harbinger.
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What this does reveal is the disconnect between other forms of Media and games.
If you watch a bad movie, you complain about it to your freinds (or social media site of choice these days) and move on with your life.
Listening to an album you purchased that turns out to be not quite your taste. Again you complain to those you know about how awful it was.
If you purchase a book and you just cannot get into it, you dislike the plot or the way it was written, you put it down.
With all of them you get on with your life and I dont think most sane people would feel the need to hunt down the record company, the movie industries website etc... to leave complaints on the forum demandin they rewrite it.
After reading the latest installment of A song of fire and ice, I thought it was average, it didn't quite continue with the same power and flow of the previous books. At least that was my belief. I would hardly want to go to Mr Martin's website and demand that he rewrite the book and get Danaeris out of that bloody city.
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/16663664.jpg)
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Just because Mass Effect 3's style of ending narrative is new and unconventional doesn't mean it's good. Why do you defend such awful writing? I don't even care about the ultimate outcome of the galaxy; the ending is like they hired Gainax to produce it.
Didn't say it was good. But you see, here we have a disconnect about what exactly about the ending sucks.
The final outcomes? Nope.
Death of crewmates? Nope.
Plot holes ane inconsistencies? Yes. (the colored shockwave delivery falls under this)
Ultimatively it's how it is.
I hated it. I hated the new Star Trek movie. There are so many great things that went astray in various movies/books/series it fills me with barely contained rage, to the point of dispair.
ME is not the first promising franchise "ruined". Won't be the last.
But ultimatively, all those things are just entertainint provided to us. We really can't make demands and can't force ourselves into the creative process. We can only suck it up and move on. Or pretend that episode/plot/sequel never happened. Or write fanfic that's better.
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(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/16666371.jpg)
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But ultimatively, all those things are just entertainint provided to us. We really can't make demands and can't force ourselves into the creative process. We can only suck it up and move on.
In most cases, sure. But when a vast majority of the audience - seems to be about 90% - is thoroughly disappointed with the exact same feature of the product, and you have a medium that is easily changed / updated / fixed, I don't see a problem if they choose to do it. If the mistakes are so glaringly obvious, why not at least try to effect change? It's not like they gave us these games. When you take the prices of all 3 games, included all the paid DLC, we come to a hefty sum per user. Of course they should have creative control over their own product, but when 90% of your paying community absolutely hates the same thing about that product, then maybe it's time to use that creative control to improve it.
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its pretty much assured that a new ending DLC is coming. due to the fact that the real ending script was leaked before ME3 was suposed to come out. so bioware nuked the leaked ending made a temp one, but because they had a date released this one. its quite obvious from the current ending that sheppard was indoctrinated ever since he got hit by harbinger.
We all wanted to believe this, but it's pretty clear by now that BioWare never had that in mind.
As for the whole 'art' thing, a lot of great art had its ending revised after the fact. Blade Runner had an awful ending in its theatrical release; it was revised. Cat on a Hot Tin Roof had its ending revised due to audience feedback after its first performance. And creative endeavors often take a lot of fan input. A video game called Mass Effect 2 was written to incorporate a ton of fan suggestions.
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Found this interesting post from Arinn Dembo:
*snip*
Oh the irony
Quoting someone from a game development team that released their game, for full price, in a state that isn't even worth calling beta. Not exactly an authority on the subject.
Also, you can adress two different points in the same post. No need to double or triple post. (Ya'd figure someone with over 10k posts on this forum would know this by now)
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I'm not gonna take part in this discussion in any way (haven't played this at all yet), but
(Ya'd figure someone with over 10k posts on this forum would know this by now)
You can acquire over 10k posts quicker if you double/triple-post.
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And creative endeavors often take a lot of fan input.
SHIVAN SUPER LASER SHOOT
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But ultimatively, all those things are just entertainint provided to us. We really can't make demands and can't force ourselves into the creative process. We can only suck it up and move on.
In most cases, sure. But when a vast majority of the audience - seems to be about 90%
Sauce?
- is thoroughly disappointed with the exact same feature of the product, and you have a medium that is easily changed / updated / fixed, I don't see a problem if they choose to do it. If the mistakes are so glaringly obvious, why not at least try to effect change? It's not like they gave us these games. When you take the prices of all 3 games, included all the paid DLC, we come to a hefty sum per user. Of course they should have creative control over their own product, but when 90% of your paying community absolutely hates the same thing about that product, then maybe it's time to use that creative control to improve it.
IF they choose to do it. Again, difference between mistakes and opppinions. The notion that the percieved mistakes HAVE to be fixed. The notion that because you paid for it, you HAVE to enjoy every bit of it.
Part of the fanbase is practicly trynig to force/push/coerce Bio into changing it. Which is both sad and funny.
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A video game called Mass Effect 2 was written to incorporate a ton of fan suggestions.
Too bad it still sucks story-wise.
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Found this interesting post from Arinn Dembo:
*snip*
Oh the irony
Quoting someone from a game development team that released their game, for full price, in a state that isn't even worth calling beta. Not exactly an authority on the subject.
More authority than you ever have..being a writer and such. And working in the industry.
And given Kerberos support for their games, your remark becomes even more ironic.
Oh, and I go trough posts one-by-one. Easier to keep track off.
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Trashman, stop multiple-posting. You make yourself look like an idiot who wants ALL the attention.
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Bioware "choice" these days = Would you like to do your TPS reports a) with a smile b) with an angry face c) Tell me what TPS reports are before I decide.
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What I find really hilarious about that Shakespeare comparison is that Will was writing those plays for the sole purpose of getting performed by his troupe. Y'know, to make money. If he wrote an ending that most of his audience hated, and he felt like he could have improved the reaction by changing it, he would have done so in a heartbeat. :p
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A tragic end to ME3 would be fine if it was well-written, not full of holes, made sense, and was properly explained.
Shakespeare tragedies are (generally) all of the above, which makes them great. I don't see any of us complaining about Mordin's death because, even though it's a tragic ending to his character, it was meaningful and emotionally engaging.
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Yeah, if the game's ending were just a retread of Tuchanka (shep you have to go into the catalyst core/send a henchman into the catalyst core but whoever goes in will die, i have been and always will be your friend) I think people would've been satiated. There'd be grumbling about it, but no volcanic outrage.
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Trashman, stop multiple-posting. You make yourself look like an idiot who wants ALL the attention.
Single-post or multi-post. What's the difference? None..except for hte visual one.
In heated thread that move fast, by the time oyu consolidate 2-3 answers into one post, the convo has already moved far away.
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Trashman, the discussion only seems to be moving fast because of your habit of multiposting.
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I can't believe I only JUST noticed the typo in the title of the thread >.<
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It's not a typo. It's a reference to the last moments of Emily Wong.
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http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/16663664.jpg
Dropping my usual Watsonian explanation when it comes to Holmes for awhile, let's address why this was a stupid thing to post, because it demonstrates our point and not yours.
Sherlock Holmes took a header over Reichenbach Falls not because of any compelling story reasons or **** like that, but because Conan Doyle was throwing a hissy fit.
Conan Doyle later went back and changed it so Holmes survived, acknowledging in the process that he had placed his personal distaste for and disillusionment with the character ahead of the concerns of his art, his pocketbook, and the internal logic of the stories.
As Bioware has placed their desired ending above the concerns of their art, their pocketbook, and the internal logic of their stories.
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http://i.joystiq.com/2012/03/19/mass-effect-3-on-sale-for-40-at-microsoft-store-online/
Price drops starting.
Looks like atghunter in the pr BSN thread was on the money.
Finally remember, they have much more data at their disposal. They know how sales are going, how much time people are playing that are synced into Origin, etc. They will watch those numbers this weekend. If sales slow, watch for price cutting within 10 days (just over the two week US release date). It will mean that retailers are getting nervous and will slow new unit orders. As I’ve said before, this will come down to hard currency. If the protests start having an effect on that front, the response will come.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349
Also, EA is accepting returns via origin.
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More authority than you ever have..being a writer and such. And working in the industry.
And given Kerberos support for their games, your remark becomes even more ironic.
You don't know what irony is, do you? Also, nice ad hominem. But trying to belittle me does not make this person you quoted somehow more of an authority. Fact is, she is just a small time fluff writer for a small time company that can't even release a game in a playable state. And then they scramble to patch a game to completion. Last time I checked (which was 4 months ago) this was still not the case.
You are too much of a zealous fanboy to realize that kerberos is just a small time company that has little qualms about flat out lying to its customers by trying to sell them a unplayable and broken product. Such a company is in no way shape or form an authority about anything in the game industry.
Say what you will about Bioware's ****ty ending to ME3, at least they release the game in a complete and playable state.
Trashman, stop multiple-posting. You make yourself look like an idiot who wants ALL the attention.
>Implying he needs to multi post in order to look like an idiot
Anyway, time for me to carefully back away from the topic now. While Trashman may keep on making ****ty posts, I should not help him further in ****ting the thread up.
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Last time I checked (which was 4 months ago) this was still not the case.
AFAIK it's still not (Kerberos has promised to throw out a flare when it is and it's still dark) and the game's been acknowledged as a failure by Paradox.
Also I'm a writer too, does that make my opinion more valid? How about Battuta, who's actually published?
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I do think this is all sort of an interesting artistic issue. On the one hand I've often criticised BioWare for their creative cowardice, but on the other I think the Shakespeare thing would have more weight if compelling arguments existed in favour of the ending that weren't just 'it's their game and their ending'. I'm not convinced that principle is enough.
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Having now finally seen all the possible game endings, I would like to take a moment of silence to praise the courage of the one person who realized how bad this would be before it happened.
A single manly tear for Marauder Shields. (http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/Vulpix1000/motivator48cfb4eb2d9b0e12556e3209267450038685b648.jpg)
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Also in a Trashmanesque double post...you think we're wrong, son?
Argue it with Forbes Magazine. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/13/why-fan-service-is-good-business/)
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Also in a Trashmanesque double post...you think we're wrong, son?
Argue it with Forbes Magazine. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/13/why-fan-service-is-good-business/)
I want to marry this writer. And I never thought I'd say that about a man working for a business magazine.
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So, I haven't finished the game yet, but hearing all the rage, I'm afraid to finish it now, yet at the same time, I really do, because I want to see what effect my actions in the previous two games will have.
To finish the game and to risk ruining the franchise for me, or to keep the franchise on a good note? Choices... Choices... :banghead:
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To finish the game and to risk ruining the franchise for me, or to keep the franchise on a good note? Choices... Choices... :banghead:
At some point there will be a single Marauder, three husks, and a big light.
Don't go into the light. Stop there.
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So, I haven't finished the game yet, but hearing all the rage, I'm afraid to finish it now, yet at the same time, I really do, because I want to see what effect my actions in the previous two games will have.
To finish the game and to risk ruining the franchise for me, or to keep the franchise on a good note? Choices... Choices... :banghead:
The game is 99.5% really good. Just finish it. If you really want to avoid the **** part, when you hear the words 'You did good, child...' and your eyes mist up with tears testosterone, turn it off.
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So, I haven't finished the game yet, but hearing all the rage, I'm afraid to finish it now, yet at the same time, I really do, because I want to see what effect my actions in the previous two games will have.
To finish the game and to risk ruining the franchise for me, or to keep the franchise on a good note? Choices... Choices... :banghead:
The game is 99.5% really good. Just finish it. If you really want to avoid the **** part, when you hear the words 'You did good, child...' and your eyes mist up with tears testosterone, turn it off.
Alternatively, pause the game and get drunk as a skunk before continuing.
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Single-post or multi-post. What's the difference? None..except for hte visual one.
In heated thread that move fast, by the time oyu consolidate 2-3 answers into one post, the convo has already moved far away.
The discussion moved far away in the time it took you to write
Too bad it still sucks story-wise.
?
Really?
Seriously though, double posting is frowned upon on this forum since even long before I got here. Stop doing it. Especially for stuff such at that last post which easily could have been part of the previous one.
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More authority than you ever have..being a writer and such. And working in the industry.
And given Kerberos support for their games, your remark becomes even more ironic.
You don't know what irony is, do you? Also, nice ad hominem. But trying to belittle me does not make this person you quoted somehow more of an authority. Fact is, she is just a small time fluff writer for a small time company that can't even release a game in a playable state. And then they scramble to patch a game to completion. Last time I checked (which was 4 months ago) this was still not the case.
You are too much of a zealous fanboy to realize that kerberos is just a small time company that has little qualms about flat out lying to its customers by trying to sell them a unplayable and broken product. Such a company is in no way shape or form an authority about anything in the game industry.
Say what you will about Bioware's ****ty ending to ME3, at least they release the game in a complete and playable state.
Funnily enough, tehy care mroe about their product and their customers than BioWare.
And by now the game is practicly complete. They've put in a titanic effort to fix everything (we're talking several major patches and hotfixes a month).
Even in the shabby state it was in release, ti still looked more enticing than ME3.
Call me a "fanboy" if you want. Nothing more than a cheap label for you so you can more easily dismiss my calim. Also, who's belittleing whom now?
Regardless, this isn't a topic that warrants a discussion - especially not with you.
Trashman, stop multiple-posting. You make yourself look like an idiot who wants ALL the attention.
>Implying he needs to multi post in order to look like an idiot
Anyway, time for me to carefully back away from the topic now. While Trashman may keep on making ****ty posts, I should not help him further in ****ting the thread up.
I could leave, but that woul still leave you stinking up the place...And worse than I ever could.
Also in a Trashmanesque double post...you think we're wrong, son?
Argue it with Forbes Magazine. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/13/why-fan-service-is-good-business/)
Yes. On many things.
Seriously, this is the last warning I'm giving you on double posting. I only let you off this time cause it's possible you didn't notice my post (it was on a different page from the ones you quoted) - Karajorma
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So, does multiple posting after a moderator telling him not to, followed by multiple posting after an admin told him not to mean that we can finally have a civilized conversation here, free of this bull****? Just wondering, really - I don't mean to tell anyone how to do their jobs, far from it. It's the same as the ME3 ending; while Bioware has the right not to change / expand on it, I remain hopeful they will. Same with this :P
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I've merged Trashman's posts together. Next time I'll merge him with the ban list instead.
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Yes. On many things.
And yet without offering a concrete point we've not been able to counter, and many times not even appearing to understand our argument (or even your own argument, with inept references to Holmes!), why should we give any weight to this opinion?
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His name was marauder shields...
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I've merged Trashman's posts together. Next time I'll merge him with the ban list instead.
Yes...double posting. The greatest crime of all.
The stylish atrocity of TWO post one after another is just too horrible to bear! :rolleyes:
Sometimes, the rules/laws one runs into are so silly.....
Yes. On many things.
And yet without offering a concrete point we've not been able to counter, and many times not even appearing to understand our argument (or even your own argument, with inept references to Holmes!), why should we give any weight to this opinion?
Call me when you offer a concrete point. Then we can talk.
And dont' tell me I don't understand your argument if you don't attempt to understand mine. Apples anad oranges. Poatos, potatoes.
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Please stop bashing eachother and start bashing the indoctrinated ending of ME3 and the subsequent pay to get the actual ending DLC
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Please stop bashing eachother and start bashing the indoctrinated ending of ME3 and the subsequent pay to get the actual ending DLC
pls2readthread, kthxbai.
BTW, we've been discussing almost nothing but the ending for the past 15 pages.
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Call me when you offer a concrete point. Then we can talk.
And dont' tell me I don't understand your argument if you don't attempt to understand mine. Apples anad oranges. Poatos, potatoes.
:banghead:
I feel like that smiley and this explanation would be a better use of a post than if I said what I was actually thinking.
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Yeah, fascinating Scotty.
You don't like what I have to say. I get it. You want me to shut up or GTFO. I get it.
Point made.
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Please stop bashing eachother and start bashing the indoctrinated ending of ME3 and the subsequent pay to get the actual ending DLC
pls2readthread, kthxbai.
BTW, we've been discussing almost nothing but the ending for the past 15 pages.
Well as far as I could gather, that was precisely the intention of Mac Walters and Casey Hudson, to create a "speculative" ending and one that would be remembered for a long time.
Mission accomplished!!
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Yes...double posting. The greatest crime of all.
The stylish atrocity of TWO post one after another is just too horrible to bear! :rolleyes:
Sometimes, the rules/laws one runs into are so silly.....
Several of us post from mobile devices, so it's quite a pain in the arse having to scroll past all those gadgets a second or third time simply because you couldn't be bothered to do what you should have done in the first place. Besides, you've already triple posted on this thread and if we don't draw the line somewhere who knows what kind of lunacy you'd consider to be too far.
It is far simpler to draw the line at "Don't double post" than "Don't quadruple post".
Anyway, I've made the policy clear and I've even explained why. If you have any further issue with it, take it up in the correct place, not here.
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starchild also says "like WE let you live last time WE were here" if it was the citadel it never left....
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starchild also says "like WE let you live last time WE were here" if it was the citadel it never left....
I've seen every piece of evidence and I'm pretty sure, going off The Final Hours, that the indoctrination theory is a fan creation. BioWare never intended it. If they're smart they'll pretend it was their plan all along and use it as a springboard for a new ending.
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to be honest, i think if anyone could pull it of as a goal it would be bioware. so im gonna go with the bioware intended this to be not the ending.
cuz the current ending are **** :D
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to be honest, i think if anyone could pull it of as a goal it would be bioware. so im gonna go with the bioware intended this to be not the ending.
cuz the current ending are **** :D
It'd be great to believe that, but the behind the scenes material they've released makes it clear that these were the endings they've designed. They've even been in the leaked scripts since last year.
BioWare isn't Obsidian. They're not particularly talented or risky writers. They just stick to what they've always done.
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Never attribute to brilliance what can be explained by incompetence. Bioware mucked up
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I've seen every piece of evidence and I'm pretty sure, going off The Final Hours, that the indoctrination theory is a fan creation. BioWare never intended it. If they're smart they'll pretend it was their plan all along and use it as a springboard for a new ending.
I've actually gone the exact opposite route. At first I was convinced that the indoctrination theory was just wishful thinking on the fan's part. But after seeing some rather concisely and logically laid out arguments, I have to say I've gone from extremely skeptical to thinking that there's actually a good chance (say, 50-50) that it's actually true.
This video I found particularly interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI&list=UUsgv2QHkT2ljEixyulzOnUQ&index=1&feature=plcp
Not saying it proves anything, but there are some pretty valid points there. It's possible Bioware wanted to make a bit of gaming history by doing this. If so, they're the greatest trolls of all time..
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It'd be great to believe that, but the behind the scenes material they've released makes it clear that these were the endings they've designed. They've even been in the leaked scripts since last year.
Are you familiar with Operation Mincemeat? :drevil:
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I've seen every piece of evidence and I'm pretty sure, going off The Final Hours, that the indoctrination theory is a fan creation. BioWare never intended it. If they're smart they'll pretend it was their plan all along and use it as a springboard for a new ending.
I've actually gone the exact opposite route. At first I was convinced that the indoctrination theory was just wishful thinking on the fan's part. But after seeing some rather concisely and logically laid out arguments, I have to say I've gone from extremely skeptical to thinking that there's actually a good chance (say, 50-50) that it's actually true.
This video I found particularly interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI&list=UUsgv2QHkT2ljEixyulzOnUQ&index=1&feature=plcp
Not saying it proves anything, but there are some pretty valid points there. It's possible Bioware wanted to make a bit of gaming history by doing this. If so, they're the greatest trolls of all time..
It's a cool reading, but...
The whole theory suggests that the Reapers are attempting to prevent Shep from activating the Crucible and destroying them, by fighting a battle in his mind while he's lying in the rubble on Earth...unconscious...helpless...in clear sight of Harbinger...who is armed with ship-to-ship-weapons...
I'm seeing a more parsimonious way to stop Shep right here.
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It's a cool reading, but...
The whole theory suggests that the Reapers are attempting to prevent Shep from activating the Crucible and destroying them, by fighting a battle in his mind while he's lying in the rubble on Earth...unconscious...helpless...in clear sight of Harbinger...who is armed with ship-to-ship-weapons...
I'm seeing a more parsimonious way to stop Shep right here.
The battle could be fought in his mind independently. The reapers having planted their corruption in Shep's mind, and it works slowy wherever he is. To Harbinger, he might have just been another insignificant dead or almost dead organic lying in the rubble, provided it even bothered scanning the field for survivors.
Basically, there's no middle ground here. They've either pulled a brilliant move yet to be revealed, or they have writers which go from being relatively good (it's not life changing, but it's a fun story until the beam run) to unbelieavably inept in the last 10 minutes exactly, and the transition is a complete knife cut. I'm sure we'll find out eventually, but I'd agree with the notion that if Bioware hadn't planned this, they'd be smart to pretend that they did. They'd sell a lot more ME franchise additional stuff that way.
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Reapers are known for their hubris. Harbinger sees the whole Hammer team go down, Shepard is incapacitated, and no one could survive being hit with that beam (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NoOneCouldSurviveThat).
Why would Harbinger hang around when there's a big honking space battle going on and no discernible threat of anyone getting to the Citadel beam any time soon?
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The Reapers are literally entire civilizations packed into a space cuttlefish machine. I refuse to believe that no one in that entire Harbingeroid civilization has read the evil overlord list or heard the phrase 'make sure he's dead', especially when the survival of the entire Reaper program is on the line.
'The villains were overconfident' is one of the worst cop-outs in writing.
Plus, uh, why would the Reapers be trying to indoctrinate Shep to stop him if they believe Shep is dead and there's no discernible threat of anyone getting to the Citadel beam? The whole theory makes no sense.
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Unless indoctrination is something passive or handled by some subroutine of the Reapers. How would they know it's Shepard they are indoctrinating between the millions of creatures they have under indoctrination control ?
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From what we saw in ME2, indoctrination IS a passive process. Remember the derelict Reaper mission?
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Well presumably the other millions of creatures don't have oddly specific hallucinations about firing the Crucible after a space kid tells them the purpose of the reapers and then Joker crashing the Normandy into jurassic park
There should be so much processing oomph in one Reaper that they could put together a whole committee to handle each indoctrinated person
e: And the whole theory is built on the idea that the Reapers are specifically trying to convince Shep to do something dumb instead of going with the 'destroy' ending.
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In case this hasn't been posted before. (hard to keep track of a thread moving this fast!) (http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/)
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That is indeed new.
Good to see this is hitting them hard and that they're listening to feedback. Hope they don't **** up the recovery.
e: I'm gonna call it now, they're going to clear up some of the broad **** around the ending (show that mass relays didn't explode and wipe out all life, for instance) and maybe give some closure to characters, but not patch any of the more annoying plot holes or make your EMS really do anything.
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The Reapers are literally entire civilizations packed into a space cuttlefish machine. I refuse to believe that no one in that entire Harbingeroid civilization has read the evil overlord list or heard the phrase 'make sure he's dead', especially when the survival of the entire Reaper program is on the line.
'The villains were overconfident' is one of the worst cop-outs in writing.
Yeah but 'ttuta, if it is an entire civilization think of how much of that collective must be comprised of ignorant morons. Ship must be like a giant monument to group think. I imagine the decision making process must proceed like You Tube comments, probably a few sensible posts drowned in a sea of 'bundle of sticks' insults by the unwashed masses.
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That is indeed new.
Good to see this is hitting them hard and that they're listening to feedback. Hope they don't **** up the recovery.
e: I'm gonna call it now, they're going to clear up some of the broad **** around the ending (show that mass relays didn't explode and wipe out all life, for instance) and maybe give some closure to characters, but not patch any of the more annoying plot holes or make your EMS really do anything.
Yeees, I'm going to take that as a confirmed for some sort of ending DLC. Was going to reply to the earlier replies to my first post but by the time I checked this thread it was on an entirely different page. :P
Interested to see how it pans out.
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I saw an actually interesting and substantive post on BSN:
Conventional customer service thinking (at least as far as it appears in many published works, training seminars, etc.) states that for every customer who complains to your business about a problem approximately 26 customers are dissatisfied as well but remain silent. Given that we know ~57,000 BSN users have complained (as indicated by the poll - http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/), conventional customer service thinking would place the number of dissatisfied customers at approximately 1.5 million.
Whoof. Guy goes on to cite some sources and **** http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10363783
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Yeah but 'ttuta, if it is an entire civilization think of how much of that collective must be comprised of ignorant morons. Ship must be like a giant monument to group think. I imagine the decision making process must proceed like You Tube comments, probably a few sensible posts drowned in a sea of 'bundle of sticks' insults by the unwashed masses.
Behold, The Truth.
Available on Origin for $9.99 :D
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Yeah but 'ttuta, if it is an entire civilization think of how much of that collective must be comprised of ignorant morons. Ship must be like a giant monument to group think. I imagine the decision making process must proceed like You Tube comments, probably a few sensible posts drowned in a sea of 'bundle of sticks' insults by the unwashed masses.
Behold, The Truth, Collector's Digital Deluxe Special Edition.
Available on Origin for $29.99* :D
*Special pre-order price. Regular price $39.99
Fixed.
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e: I'm gonna call it now, they're going to clear up some of the broad **** around the ending (show that mass relays didn't explode and wipe out all life, for instance) and maybe give some closure to characters, but not patch any of the more annoying plot holes or make your EMS really do anything.
That's not really that much Sherlokian of you. It's quite easy to see that this is the case.
EDIT:
I saw an actually interesting and substantive post on BSN:
Conventional customer service thinking (at least as far as it appears in many published works, training seminars, etc.) states that for every customer who complains to your business about a problem approximately 26 customers are dissatisfied as well but remain silent. Given that we know ~57,000 BSN users have complained (as indicated by the poll - http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/), conventional customer service thinking would place the number of dissatisfied customers at approximately 1.5 million.
Whoof. Guy goes on to cite some sources and **** http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10363783
Yeeeeaaah, well the 26 figure comes from the "90s". Well in the nineties the internet wasn't what it is now. I'm *pretty* sure that this figure is completely outdated regarding how much easier it is now to vent off your own dissatisfaction, so it's obvious that a much bigger percentage will complain. How much? I *couldn't have any frakkin idea*. But at least I don't make sh*t up.
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Hahahaha holy ****, people are claiming this is a
Peter Patrick Weekes post:
I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b) having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn't automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali's goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).
No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.
And honestly, it kind of shows.
Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn't need to be peer-reviewe.d
And again, it shows.
If you'd asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I'd break them down as:
Galactic Alliances
Friends
Organics versus Synthetics
In my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the gameplay -- a deliberate "nothing happens here" area with one turret thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to obfuscate the "nothing happens here"-ness. The best missions in our game are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me -- every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again; the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with the overall message.
The endgame doesn't have that. I wanted to see banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here's the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here's the army that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to fight them.
I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation was about twice as long as it needed to be -- something that I've been told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again, this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was already recorded. I did love Anderson's goodbye.
For me, Anderson's goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just... You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.
And then, just to be a dick... what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked "Destroy the Reapers". When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you'd show a cutscene of Earth that was either:
a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory
b) Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT.
c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out
I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren't in there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for budget reasons at the last minute. I don't know. But holy crap, yeah, I can see how incredibly disappointing it'd be to hear of all the different ending possibilities and have it break down to "which color is stuff glowing?" Or maybe they ARE in, but they're too subtle to really see obvious differences, and again, that's... yeah.
Okay, that's a lot to have written for something that's gonna go away in an hour.
I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn't tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn't have enough cutscene differentiation on it.
And to be clear, I don't even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes -- all three of them.
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Wait what? Weekes? That can't be right. That's a massive leak!
That cannot possibly be a public letter. That's impossible...
Sauce?? I only find it in pastebin.com
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From a reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/r6su6/to_mass_effect_3_players_from_dr_ray_muzyka/
Apparently he posts on Penny Arcade sometimes and then deletes his posts a little later, in which case we might've ****ed him by spreading this all over.
That's golden cover for fabrication though. I don't know if it could be real...seems to match his style, though, and I've got at least one person corroborating it...
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It's a massive catch Battuta. Thing is, even if it's fabricated, it's soooooooo believable that I'm just going to blindfully assume that's exactly what happened. It fits perfectly.
EDIT: However, the cutscenes are indeed different regarding the score you have. Not much, but his description isn't much different from what I saw on youtube.
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I don't want to get him fired (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-ohdear.png)
But it's probably too late. Genie's out - the reddit thread/pastebin was patient 0 anyway, I'd just be one vector.
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Patrick Weekes says he didn't write it so probably fake, or he's covering himself
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This atmosphere of disinformation and deception makes for a better story than Mass Effect ever, with bad ending or good.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted.
WHO WILL YOU BELIEVE
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Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he's not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.
Um.. yea. "Unemotional, intellectual ending"? I think not. If anything it was too emotional, trying to cover up that it's not intellectual at all. It's all simplified organics vs. synthetics rehashed bs we've seen.. everywhere before, cut together in a giant mess that doesn't make sense, with a bunch of emotional smokescreens to try and cover it up. I hope this post was fake..
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I think it's unemotional and intellectual in that it's about Big Ideas (even if they don't make sense) rather than the specific characters or species we've come to care about.
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I think it's unemotional and intellectual in that it's about Big Ideas (even if they don't make sense) rather than the specific characters or species we've come to care about.
Well, yea, but if it doesn't make any sense, there's nothing much intellectual about it. I'd accept "failed attempt at intellectual, with a failed attempt to cover it up with a failed attempt at emotional" though :)
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Possible-Weekes' point was the ending's writer was preoccupied with high-level concepts at the expense of emotional resolution. Nitpicking word choice isn't productive.
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I just don't like what's considered intellectual these days.
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Nitpicking word choice isn't productive.
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I guess you and I have different definitions of "nitpicking", as whether or not anything in ME can be defined as intellectual isn't entirely irrelevant for the topic at hand. Giving the franchise waaay too much credit is one of the recurring problems I see with people, ME devs and certain journalists included. It's not an artistic masterpiece like a Shakespeare play or a Rembrandt painting, and it's not intellectual, nor is it supposed to be. It's not Asimov, it's not 2001.
It's when you forget what you're making and try to get all deep and "intellectual" on the wrong basis is when you get a mess like ME3's final 10 minutes. So no, it's not nitpicking. It's the perception that space opera pulp can be called "intellectual" that's part of the problem these days.
If they'd accepted the franchise for what it is, they'd have followed up the "high level" choices with closure on the universe and characters they made us care about (and did a great job with it, no question), spiced with some actual variety derived from your choices. Instead we get a pretty simple, rehashed organics vs. synthetics thing we saw a million times before, add a cycle of extintion as a twist, and call the lack of closure on any of the characters or smaller concepts "intellectual". No, it's not nitpicking at all in my book. But I feel I've made my point clear by now, so I'm done here.
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Pulp Space Operas can't be deep?
I guess space-ninjas, anime-ish battles, total disregard for lore and common sense are what makes a good sci-fi?
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Pulp Space Operas can't be deep?
I guess space-ninjas, anime-ish battles, total disregard for lore and common sense are what makes a good sci-fi?
Not really, these are all pretty ****ty things, but copy-pasting the ending from Deus Ex or trying really hard to be The Matrix doesn't make good SF either
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Wait, verified BioWare account on Penny Arcade is making it sound like that was actually a real post
I'd appreciate keeping use of things I've said about contentious (ending) subjects vague here on the messageboard (say, avoiding "Takyris specifically said that..." about that subject), but I don't think anyone needs to do a complete blackout, and I'm already answering non-contentious questions on the public Twitter. I'm more nervous about podcasts because those can be heard by several thousand people and not the hundred(?) or so who post here, so if my username could never come up on one of those, I'd be grateful.
I also really appreciate people respecting me trying to walk the line of talking without getting myself fired. And if anyone does slip up and mention me, it's not their fault for slipping up -- it's my fault for taking the risk and posting in the first place.
Sorry, have missed questions, I imagine -- can't keep up with pace of this thread.
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Most outside analysis of the situation inside BioWare at the time of the ending's creation are appearing to hold true. Not really surprising to be honest.
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Wait, verified BioWare account on Penny Arcade is making it sound like that was actually a real post
Well, now I'm even more glad I didn't crosspost that at a place I know at least on BW employee (not that guy) frequents.
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Wait, verified BioWare account on Penny Arcade is making it sound like that was actually a real post
Well, now I'm even more glad I didn't crosspost that at a place I know at least on BW employee (not that guy) frequents.
It's been posted on BSN, it doesn't really matter.
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Pulp Space Operas can't be deep?
I guess space-ninjas, anime-ish battles, total disregard for lore and common sense are what makes a good sci-fi?
Not really, these are all pretty ****ty things, but copy-pasting the ending from Deus Ex or trying really hard to be The Matrix doesn't make good SF either
Well if you're going to rip off the Matrix make the end of ME3 balls to the walls insane like finding out that the Crucible wakes Shepard up from being a Reaper runtime inside a simulated civilization and humanity was actually harvested by the Reapers shortly after they opened the Charon relay or something totally insane :p
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Wait, verified BioWare account on Penny Arcade is making it sound like that was actually a real post
Well, now I'm even more glad I didn't crosspost that at a place I know at least on BW employee (not that guy) frequents.
It's been posted on BSN, it doesn't really matter.
If he actually said it, which is a long way from having been conclusively proven, firing him is probably the single worst PR ****up EA could make.
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I would be more concerned with the future personal relations between Weekes and Mac / Hudson. If I were Weekes.
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Especially considering Weekes is only one of two writers left from the ME1 writing team.
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The writing in ME3 doesn't seem bad at all to me.
What it is is it reeks of "lack of dev time" to me. They would rather spend some minutes doing separate VAs to acknowledge past choices rather than actually having past choices changing the world in a concrete manner. I'm still on Tuchanka and I have yet to make the major mission, but the Rachni Queen bit kinda pissed me off. I'm doing a renegade run and my Shep was all like "WTF why are Rachni alive I killed them all" and I could smell development hell from miles away.
And that's just wrong. And you know what? The solution would have been so simple that it pains me. Just scrap the mission altogether, that's all. Less content BUT acknowledgement that your previous choices actually matter, and make standard run (without import) as if Shep spared the Rachni Queen, so newcomers do not "lose content".
The biggest problem in ME3 boils down to the fear by the dev teams of making sure everyone gets every single bit of content, instead of making sure previous choices mattered and changed the world more than a few lines.
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Not really, these are all pretty ****ty things, but copy-pasting the ending from Deus Ex or trying really hard to be The Matrix doesn't make good SF either
I've just played through and avoided ANY spoilers thus far. This is the first sentence of ME3-related things I read on the internet and DAMN Battuta - those were exactly my thoughts. But still the game was a hell of a ride for me (except for the unbelievable strange ending ^^ )
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The biggest problem in ME3 boils down to the fear by the dev teams of making sure everyone gets every single bit of content, instead of making sure previous choices mattered and changed the world more than a few lines.
one of the many lessons Bioware needs to learn from CDProjekt RED
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Yahtzee on the ending : "Could've been worse" http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5497-Mass-Effect-3
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An ingenious statement.
IT CAN ALWAYS BE WORSE, DUMB****.
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Those videos got far less entertaining when people started treating them as legitimate opinions.
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They got far less entertaining when they stopped being clever.
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If he actually said it, which is a long way from having been conclusively proven, firing him is probably the single worst PR ****up EA could make.
Firing him now, yes. Doesn't mean you can't wait until everything's calmed down and then hand him his walking papers.
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I don't know if you guys have been paying attention to the Indoctrination Theory.
Do another play-through after watching this video (http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/indoctrination-theory-proof-of-me3-ending-dlc/) and this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck)(bear in mind, especially with the second one, they are replaying the High-Octane Nightmare Fuel scenes from the 2 "good" endings to make points)
You'll see things you didn't or didn't notice the first time.
Adding to that, I'll repeat my new catchphrase that I use when talking about Bioware:
Ladies and Gentlemen, WE'VE BEEN TROLLED!
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I don't know if you guys have been paying attention to the Indoctrination Theory.
Do another play-through after watching this video (http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/indoctrination-theory-proof-of-me3-ending-dlc/) and this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck)(bear in mind, especially with the second one, they are replaying the High-Octane Nightmare Fuel scenes from the 2 "good" endings to make points)
You'll see things you didn't or didn't notice the first time.
Adding to that, I'll repeat my new catchphrase that I use when talking about Bioware:
Ladies and Gentlemen, WE'VE BEEN TROLLED!
I don't know if you have been paying attention to the things coming out of BioWare, but the Indoctrination Theory is a wishful dream invented by fans, constructed out of glitches and unrelated content to explain an ending that is, unfortunately, exactly as it seems.
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I don't know if you have been paying attention to the things coming out of BioWare, but the Indoctrination Theory is a wishful dream invented by fans, constructed out of glitches and unrelated content to explain an ending that is, unfortunately, exactly as it seems.
Yeah, it does seem to make a lot of sense and it would be pretty nice if it were true but it does certainly not look like BioWare meant for it.
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Just for pity's sake I'll drop one item on the other side: there was something involving indoctrination or Reaper control over Shep planned, then later cut. Maybe we're seeing leftovers from that?
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I'm hearing the planned DLC is just explanatory rather than, you know, fixing any of the other things.
In on the ground floor for the ****storm.
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I'm hearing the planned DLC is featuring invisible pink elephants.
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I'm hearing the planned DLC is featuring invisible pink elephants.
That'd actually be a good DLC.
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I'm hearing the planned DLC is featuring invisible pink elephants.
better than what we got
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You remember all the memes pictures we got on the theme "better love story than twilight" ? I think we should brace ourself for something similar with "better ending than ME3".
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I'll say this much for Mass Effect 3 - it totally dethroned Fallout 3 as the king of bad endings :)
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One thing that is really pissing me off right now about the whole ****storm is people posting stuff they've heard somewhere without giving information on where they've heard it, or how trustworthy the source is.
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People tell me that my source is trustworthy.
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At least one ending should have Shep's love interest lead a squad against an indoctrinated shep as the final boss.
T'would be epic.
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This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vG4EyfXOTJ4) should be fun for someone, somewhere.
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So apparently there's a scam going around to trick people into doing some stupid surveys (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/03/scammers-attempt-to-trick-fans-with-promise-of-new-mass-effect-3-endings.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss[/url) to get the "real" ending.
WTF.
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Darwin award.
Never fails.
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Kids these days...
I don't know. The ending didn't ruin the game THAT much for me. But I was well prepared (without spoilers) so I enjoyed the rest of it far more by knowing the ending would be strange suck.
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http://youtu.be/ythY_GkEBck
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http://youtu.be/ythY_GkEBck
Why do these videos get linked like every page when we already know there is nothing to them
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It's like the Truther movement invaded the Wong game.
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Kids these days...
I don't know. The ending didn't ruin the game THAT much for me. But I was well prepared (without spoilers) so I enjoyed the rest of it far more by knowing the ending would be strange suck.
Honestly I don't have that much of an issue with the ending minus the weird Normandy escaping part which wasn't given enough forewarning (a few lines of dialog about why Joker would be fleeing when in every other game he saves your ass at the last second). That's the part that I have no idea why they thought it was a good idea.
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Yea that part makes no sense. Hell I'd have been happier with the Joker and the Normandy making the ultimate sacrifice in the battle. I still wouldn't be happy because frankly, I'm sick and tired of all the fashionable trendy grimdark, but at least it would have made some sense. But I'm also tired of listening to the "we don't want a happy ending just one that makes sense" argument too. I agree that a grimdark ending that made sense would have been better, yes, but if I've made sure to make all the right choices in 3 games over 5 years then damn it yes, I want a happy ending and I don't care if it's not cool or edgy these days. If I want to get depressed I'll watch the news, not play a space opera game.
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That's where the suicide mission was well done, it could be grimdark or "WE ALL SURVIVED! YAYS! POWAH OF LOVE!" depending on the effort you spent. From Bioware's stats it's pretty clear that most people lost a lot of people on the suicide mission and so on average it played out right.
The war assets really needed to behave that way, with a few bits of Shepard radioing whether it'd be better to use the biotic squad, Krogan, or Geth Primes for some things. Although sure Anderson was supposed to be running the war effort, they're there because of Shepard and it would have been nice for them to ask Shepard for final field approval after being given Anderson's options.
Hell, even if it was the same outcome and just "pick what cutscene" during scene swaps in the London bit it would have felt nice.
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That's pretty much my gripe with it, well said. If you're making a trilogy all built on player choice then I expect endings that reflect those. But I'm repeating sentiments that have been rehashed to death, and when I find myself in agreement with the majority it's time to withdraw for some quiet introspection :P
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The BSN sure knows how to stick it to bioware:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10658883
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The BSN sure knows how to stick it to bioware:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10658883
**** I was just posting that!
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Yea that part makes no sense. Hell I'd have been happier with the Joker and the Normandy making the ultimate sacrifice in the battle. I still wouldn't be happy because frankly, I'm sick and tired of all the fashionable trendy grimdark, but at least it would have made some sense. But I'm also tired of listening to the "we don't want a happy ending just one that makes sense" argument too. I agree that a grimdark ending that made sense would have been better, yes, but if I've made sure to make all the right choices in 3 games over 5 years then damn it yes, I want a happy ending and I don't care if it's not cool or edgy these days. If I want to get depressed I'll watch the news, not play a space opera game.
I'm the opposite. If I want happy sunshine bunnies, ther'es palynety of kiddy cartoons I can watch.
What *I* want is for my Shepard to try his best and still fail to get the super-happy ending. And since Shep is smart and caring, the only way for that to happen is if there is no happy neding. If there was, Shep would achieve it. Not to menion that such a "perfect" completely undermines the reapers as a threat. It turns them into a joke even more than they already are. The tone of the ending as it is fits perfectly.
Player choices do matter. Just no so much in the final decision. And there is no "but they should".
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Ok Trash but that's like your opinion dude ;).
The problem is not the GRIMDARK tone of it. Considering the threat of the Reapers, it is appropriate. The bigger problem relies in the tonal shift, as far as I can gather. People are speaking about how the ending is actually a defeat, that Shep concedes to the reaper master and accepts his logic and his three solutions. The whole 2.95 parts of the trilogy were about how shep and co. were fighting against "inevitability", dust against "cosmic wind", how they were fighting against fatalism, a sort of nihilism. And to what? To end up caving to the devil maskeraded as an innocent victim's logic. That's a kind of betrayal to the whole series.
I mean, I wouldn't have mind having a GRIMDARK ending if at least there was a shout against this nihilism. Instead we have a faint "but but that's not nice of you!" from Shep. I mean wtf. Even Braveheart had a better ending than Mass Effect 3. That whole movie was popcorn hilarious material, but at least the grimdark ending where the hero is butchered by the King's whim is toned correctly by both picturing the evil dood's plans as failures (the princess having Gibson's son in her belly) and his infamous shout of freedom. Heck I don't know why my brain came up with that frakkin example, but I think it's not a bad one.
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(http://i.eho.st/pj50t5h6.jpg)
LOL
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Ok Trash but that's like your opinion dude ;).
Just as his is his. And yours is yours.
Shocking, I know!
But just goes to show you that "what would be a better ending" or "what would be a better game" are both highly debatable. change X might make some people happy, but it will also make some people mad. You can't win. It is inevitable. Like dust strugling against comsmic winds. :P
The problem is not the GRIMDARK tone of it. Considering the threat of the Reapers, it is appropriate. The bigger problem relies in the tonal shift, as far as I can gather. People are speaking about how the ending is actually a defeat, that Shep concedes to the reaper master and accepts his logic and his three solutions. The whole 2.95 parts of the trilogy were about how shep and co. were fighting against "inevitability", dust against "cosmic wind", how they were fighting against fatalism, a sort of nihilism. And to what? To end up caving to the devil maskeraded as an innocent victim's logic. That's a kind of betrayal to the whole series.
Tonal shift? Very debatable. Peopel will have different ideas what the teon is or if the tonal shift is appropriate. After all, hte galactic apocalypse is coming. IF that is not a casue for a tonalshift, nothing is.
And no, the ending is not a defeat. The cycle is broken no matter what. It is "defeat" to those who don't like any of hte 3 optiosn and want their own vision of the ending. Shep not having a 4th option? Big deal. Shep having to accept that he can't always find a perfect solution? Again, big deal!
Since when does he protagonist have to be alwas right? Since when must the antagonist be always wrong? Or are the players ego's so fragile that tehy cannot stand the idea the Shep can't punch out the reapers?
What you say is not betraly..not in that sense anyway.
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Even Braveheart had a better ending than Mass Effect 3. That whole movie was popcorn hilarious material, but at least the grimdark ending where the hero is butchered by the King's whim is toned correctly by both picturing the evil dood's plans as failures (the princess having Gibson's son in her belly)
Something similar, e.g. Shepard banging the kid's mum and then rubbing it in his face, sure would've improved the ME3's ending...
Anyway, I agree partially with what you're saying about the concession to nihilism and all the other bad -isms, but you could say that the red ending is a rejection of the Reapers' terms. Of course, the fact that it includes the gethocide makes it unpalatable, but the developers certainly are entitled to try to implement their vision of Hard Choices, even if brute force artificial obstacles are the only way they know how to do it.
Btw. another thing I find interesting about the ending, in particular about the revelation of the Reapers' true purpose, is how badly it fits in what's been established about them in the rest of the trilogy. The most irritating is of course the claim that their purpose is incomprehensible, while the only incomprehensible thing about it is it's shear stupidity. But even if a periodic mas liquefaction was the only way to stop the possible extermination of all other life by a single synthetic race, it still wouldn't fit the rest of the series, where the Reapers are constantly being portrayed as mean villains, and not as a methodological solution. But I guess that's what you get when you write two games without thinking what the ending is going to be.
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LOL
And where is that supposed to be from?
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LOL
And where is that supposed to be from?
deviantart+photoshop. Nice trolling though, a pity that was too easy to track it.
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Even Braveheart had a better ending than Mass Effect 3. That whole movie was popcorn hilarious material, but at least the grimdark ending where the hero is butchered by the King's whim is toned correctly by both picturing the evil dood's plans as failures (the princess having Gibson's son in her belly)
Something similar, e.g. Shepard banging the kid's mum and then rubbing it in his face, sure would've improved the ME3's ending...
Anyway, I agree partially with what you're saying about the concession to nihilism and all the other bad -isms, but you could say that the red ending is a rejection of the Reapers' terms. Of course, the fact that it includes the gethocide makes it unpalatable, but the developers certainly are entitled to try to implement their vision of Hard Choices, even if brute force artificial obstacles are the only way they know how to do it.
I kinda envisioned the ending in a different form. If we are to maintain the choices at the end (no matter how ridiculous the synthesis ending is but whatevah), I'd rather have just one machine (not this Monty Hall shenanigan), with the choice of bringing SYNTHESIS as paragon, and CONTROL as renegade. The kid would have given you these two choices. You could choose these two and abide to the kids' logic. However, there would remain a third hypothesis, the DESTROY one, which would be "found" by Shepard alone "Hey, I get ya kid, but what happens if I blow this sh*t right out of the blue?" "NOOOO Don't do it, thousands of civilizations will perish FOREVER into oblivion! All our efforts will have been for nothing!", and then shep just shoots the damn machine while saying "Your time is over, Reapers. GET OFF MAH LAWN". Renegade interrupt?
Btw. another thing I find interesting about the ending, in particular about the revelation of the Reapers' true purpose, is how badly it fits in what's been established about them in the rest of the trilogy. The most irritating is of course the claim that their purpose is incomprehensible, while the only incomprehensible thing about it is it's shear stupidity. But even if a periodic mas liquefaction was the only way to stop the possible extermination of all other life by a single synthetic race, it still wouldn't fit the rest of the series, where the Reapers are constantly being portrayed as mean villains, and not as a methodological solution. But I guess that's what you get when you write two games without thinking what the ending is going to be.
The reapers were always designed as having an ulterior "good" goal. Drew's first idea was to have it somewhat related with dark energy. And they are not incoherent at all.
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We had to kill organic life to save it.
Nope, not incoherent.
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We had to kill organic life to save it.
Nope, not incoherent.
That's pretty extreme commander. Actually that would be very incoherent. Gladly, that's not the ME3 plot. Nice try.
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That's pretty extreme commander. Actually that would be very incoherent. Gladly, that's not the ME3 plot. Nice try.
And how, then, would you describe it? Hint: it will still not work. Batts and I already discussed this. If the Reapers are truly trying to save us from ourselves in their own way, the entire idea of them going into combat is ludicrous; they have already lost somewhere between four and twenty species for all eternity before you've finished the first hour of the game. (Sovereign and the "several" capital reapers lost in the Battle of Palaven.) They spent hundreds of years fighting the Protheans, the losses they must have taken, the species cast into oblivion, must number in the hundreds. What was the point, then, of saving them in the first place?
If every cycle costs them but one capital-class Reaper, they'll never break even. If every cycle costs them 1.anything, they will eventually run out. The ideas that have been presented about their scheme don't logically track. We may be doomed, but we have already won.
And things in the game occur that would put the lie to their theories about why we need saving from ourselves.
You might need to go reread the thread, we've already discussed this at length, it doesn't work.
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That's pretty extreme commander. Actually that would be very incoherent. Gladly, that's not the ME3 plot. Nice try.
And how, then, would you describe it? Hint: it will still not work. Batts and I already discussed this. If the Reapers are truly trying to save us from ourselves in their own way, the entire idea of them going into combat is ludicrous; they have already lost somewhere between four and twenty species for all eternity before you've finished the first hour of the game. (Sovereign and the "several" capital reapers lost in the Battle of Palaven.) They spent hundreds of years fighting the Protheans, the losses they must have taken, the species cast into oblivion, must number in the hundreds. What was the point, then, of saving them in the first place?
Several assumptions that you are taking here that are not entirely corroborated by the game. The first assumption is that every race will be "awarded" by ascending to only one Reaper. They could ascend to more than one. The second assumption is that the kind of backlash we are witnessing in this war was prevalent throughout the previous cycles. There are multiple clues to hint that this was not the case at all. Normal cycles usually were broken with a quick attack over the Citadel, the breaking up of any hierarchy, division and conquest. Javik himself was pleasantly surprised to know Shep had "killed a Reaper", hinting that he himself in his own lifetime had never witnessed such an event (this was the dialogue I had, you can correct me if you find a counter to it).
Sovereign was killed because of an anomaly in the previous cycle, which made it possible for Shep and co. to stop the quick surprise attack from the Reapers. There was also a huge benefit to the findings of the Thanix Cannon, although I did not pay attention to how much exactly this was an advantage.
The Reapers were forced to a different war strategy this time around. There's also the issue of the Rachni wars having been started by Reapers' influence. There is this giant plot hole of what the hell were they thinking in leaving the galaxy alone for so long, but it is also probable that that war signed to the Reapers that this cycle was still "easy" enough, and perhaps it was still not time, let Sovvy do his thing.
If every cycle costs them but one capital-class Reaper, they'll never break even. If every cycle costs them 1.anything, they will eventually run out. The ideas that have been presented about their scheme don't logically track. We may be doomed, but we have already won.
Yes, but again the assumption that only one human reaper would be produced. And you are also assuming that most cycles would be as damaging to the Reapers just like this one. Logic dictates that actually, most cycles would have been fairly easy for the Reapers to cull.
And things in the game occur that would put the lie to their theories about why we need saving from ourselves.
The Geth vs Quarian does not falsify the Catalyst. If anything, it confirms it. The only way the organics had managed to make peace with the synthetics was because of the presence of the Reapers. If such a threat did not exist, the peace also wouldn't. We can discuss this further. Even if we take for granted that the Geth are all angels, it does not falsify the threat of tech singularity from other angles. Like foreshadowed by the Heretics themselves, by OverLord, by the Moon AI, etc., etc.
You might need to go reread the thread, we've already discussed this at length, it doesn't work.
Thanks, I'll happily oblige to your condescending advices. Oh wait, I had already read it.
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(http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-ughh.gif)
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(http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-ughh.gif)
Thanks for your feedback! We are listening!
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...
This thread is heading toward lock territory pretty fast.
Luis: "Logic dictates" no such thing. Narrative implies it, but that's a different beast. You have your theories, which are corroborated by ingame evidence, but so do Battuta and NGTM1R.
Until there's some more canon info, all we have is speculation. Do not try to impose your religionopinion onto others by calling the other guy's religionopinion stupid.
All three of you, I would ask you to keep it civil. I just know that that's futile, but I have to try anyway.
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Come on E, aren't you overreacting? Where was I mean? I was even acknowledging Trashman's opinions.
I tried to express why I think NG's and Battuta's take on the matter might not apply well here, and perhaps I'm amazingly wrong, but in no way I said their opinions were "stupid". The most I did was to say that the meme "I created synthetics to kill organics so synthetics won't kill organics" is not the ME3 plot.
Really I am at a loss here. So I shouldn't have said "logic dictates". Fair enough. Is that lockable material here? Wow.
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All I mean with my john luke packard is that I don't want this thread degenerating into a dumb quotestack argument about a cheesy space opera universe.
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Hell forbid people having fun debating cheesy space opera lore...
Ok ok I get it, you don't like this stuff. I'll just sulk here in the corner arguing with myself here.
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The problem, Luis, is that this thread has generated enough vitriol already. Adding to it does not make it better. I am just a tiny bit twitchy when discussions between people known for their, ahem, enthusiastic debating style flare up in here.
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(http://www.indievault.it/wp-content/uploads/stoprighttherep.jpg)
Overacting a bit E?
I've seen a LOT of heated discussions, many of those ME related, and this doesn't even register on my radar.
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I know I'm maybe late to the party but here is some additional neat information http://www.geekosystem.com/mass-effect-3-ending-changes/ (http://www.geekosystem.com/mass-effect-3-ending-changes/)
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Does a reaper ever actually acknowledge that we killed a reaper?
Thing is, the suckers clearly have essentially infinite distance instant communication (harbinger assuming control from deep space), and they're software (legion says there were 37 processes on Sovereign.) The ships all look very similar, and nothing like the proto-reaper from ME2. It seems possible that the ships are just hardware - expensive maybe, but something they can jump off of if they get eaten by a giant worm.
If the loses are a couple of servers, and not a couple of civilizations, then our successes don't necessarily mean the cycle is self defeating - they just need to build new hardware.
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The reapers were always designed as having an ulterior "good" goal. Drew's first idea was to have it somewhat related with dark energy. And they are not incoherent at all.
Were they? I heard about that dark energy idea, but I've no idea whether it was necessarily a "good goal" or purely a matter of self-preservation.
If their purpose was good from the beggining, then they simply ****ed it up from the beginning, because throughout the game they are constantly portrayed as malevolent pricks.
We had to kill organic life to save it.
Nope, not incoherent.
"We kill some organics to prevent the possible extermination of all organics" is less catchy, but more true. And in fact, it wouldn't be incoherent at all if it weren't for the simple fact that it's stupid, while the creators of the Reapers should supposedly be smart.
But whatever. I understand how irritating can beating the dead horse be to all the been-there-done-that people here, and admittedly it doesn't serve a purpose other than to vent one's frustration so perhaps it is better not to pursue it further.
So, on a brighter note, I did enjoy the game, and although I was never a big fan of Mass Effect, I must say that it felt nice to play ME3 (and ME2 before it, because I lost the saves, and the default profile was horrible). Those characters do grow on you. Especially since Mordin, Legion and Wrex had important roles in the sequel, while, say, Miranda, Jacob or Ashley did not :D
Also, I played the Adept, and what they've done with that class in ME3 is a vast improvement over ME2.
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Sorry not going to reply to you Meneldil. Seems I have a "history" of being too "enthusiastic" for the mods taste. Whatever.
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He see The E moderatin', he hatin'
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As yet another in my series of why-am-I-posting-about-a-game-I-haven't-played posts, here's a fun blog entry (http://doycetesterman.com/index.php/2012/03/mass-effect-tolkein-and-your-bull****-artistic-process/) that supposes what this whole ending would have looked like if it was transported into Lord of the Rings.
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So I am listening to the ost and the music is much different than mass effect 2. and mass effect 1. what do you guys think about it?
I get that it changed and that reflects the mood change between 2 and 3. it slower and sadder
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Don't forget ppl, "reaping" isn't killing. At least not to repaers. They don't see it as a bad thing.
Being reborn in reaper form is the continuation of existance, not death (as they see it). So it's not stupid in that regard.
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It's a (perverted) continuation of the species' existence, its member are still very much dead.
The Reapers would work great as a race of superior beings whose primary in-game purpose is to procreate through xenocide. As someone's solution however, they fail miserably, because there's no way to see them as an intelligent and coherent solution.
Unfortunately, it seems the developers felt that having yet another plot centered around a xenocidal race wouldn't be deep and innovative, so they tried to make them into something more profound. A terrible mistake. Because yes, it'd be neither deep, nor particularly innovative, but it would be good enough. And I don't want to sound defeatistic, but sticking to "good enough" often is the right choice when you can't do better.
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I'm just wondering for who are the reaped civilizations "stored"? Who will ever access that data? It's like cut-pasting someone's vital data on an external drive, sending to to the North Pole never to be found again, and saying "don't worry it's been stored".
What is a civilization after reaping? A giant space crab sitting in dark space for 50,000 years waiting to one-up someone else one day.
Also, if the star child was so dedicated to preserving all those civilizations, why give Shepard a chance to destroy all reapers? By doing so he presumably did worse genocide than allowing the cycle to continue normally. It's just a bunch of hogwash trying to be deep and failing.
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In my head civilizations live on inside a Reaper in a simulated state.
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Shades of grey is rapidly surpassing black and white as the hallmark of ****ty, lazy, hack writing these days.
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In my head civilizations live on inside a Reaper in a simulated state.
Basically, each Reaper would be a Matrix ?
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In my head civilizations live on inside a Reaper in a simulated state.
Basically, each Reaper would be a Matrix ?
Yeah pretty much.
Shades of grey is rapidly surpassing black and white as the hallmark of ****ty, lazy, hack writing these days.
I hope not D:
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It seems hard to argue, though, that they weren't actually killed because we saw Kelly get rendered down at one point; presumably there's at least a few moments of discontinuity between that and her being simulated. (The fact people were being pumped into the Reaper in ME2 suggests it might be longer.)
Assuming that everyone killed is directly rendered unto their new life in Reaperhood, which also does not have to be the case. The Reapers could simply build a library from people, not preserve them directly in any particular form. Preserving the whole by destroying all the pieces isn't the soundest of approaches and is entirely possible.
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In my head civilizations live on inside a Reaper in a simulated state.
Well, there is at least one known example of that sort of thing in Mass Effect universe, but it's not a Reaper. (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Virtual_Alien)
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So basically, the Citadel races are fearful of AIs because of the Geth. Who killed their creators because their creators tried to kill them. This whole concept is alien to me, it's portrayed in more than place that the Citadel Council is very concerned with protecting emerging species with it's "protected planet" policy, even extending that policy toward planets with only rudimentary life on them, life that would take millions of years to achieve sentience. We've seen repeatedly that tech in the ME universe is more than capable of creating and maintaining Artificial Life. So they are either consciously or sub-consciously disconnecting that life is life, whether it's based on biological or digital processes.
All of that is based on the fact that the Quarians effectively lied about how the war with the Geth started.
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Every single instance of synthetic-organic violence in the Mass Effect games proper is either an act of synthetic self defense (geth, Luna VI, Citadel AI from ME1) or instigated by the Reapers (geth attack on Citadel space). nice going reapers
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Or started by an organic.
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Synthetics suck and must all die. ALL. No exceptions.
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He sees Legion rockin', he hatin'
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I for one, love Legion. He is so cool! Not to mention that it was because of him that the Quarians and the Geth united...
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(http://i.imgur.com/ATG3a.jpg)
Bwhaahahahahah...... snif
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For the love of god, levelshot that ****.
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Done. Anyway, what's the big deal? So one person in the vast sea of speculation that is BSN guessed correctly at the ending of ME3. I am quite certain that there's dozens upon dozens of theories that are way more wrong. Million-Monkeys-effect in action.
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I want this option to the ending
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss52/DoctorWho99/nowgetthehelloutofourgalaxy.jpg)
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No, that ending wasn't exactly great either. "WE'RE SO LONELY"
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http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/games/supplydepot/
Look under features :p
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http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/games/supplydepot/
Look under features :p
Oh snap!
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Last night, [adult swim]'s version of their April Fool's joke was something amazing: a resurrection of the classic Toonami block, complete with some old shows and Steve Blum voicing TOM in the commercial bumps. They even went so far as to do a new game review, for Mass Effect 3...and even TOM dissed the ending. :D
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Last night, [adult swim]'s version of their April Fool's joke was something amazing: a resurrection of the classic Toonami block, complete with some old shows and Steve Blum voicing TOM in the commercial bumps. They even went so far as to do a new game review, for Mass Effect 3...and even TOM dissed the ending. :D
Oh god damn I am sorry I missed that. :(
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http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/games/supplydepot/
Look under features :p
When you finish and the credits roll, it becomes a fairly scathing comment on the state of the gaming industry with a ridiculous number of Producers, Directors and Designers and only a few actual artists and programmers.
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From the creator of Minecraft a WHOLE NEW GAME!
http://marseffect.net/
Including!
The game is still very early in development, but here is a list of things we hope to include:
Hard science fiction.
Lots of engineering.
Fully working computer system.
Space battles against the AI or other players.
A game ending that makes sense.
Abandoned ships full of loot.
Waist high walls.
Seamlessly landing on planets.
Advanced economy system.
Mining, trading, and looting.
- Notch
Can't wait!
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I want this option to the ending
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss52/DoctorWho99/nowgetthehelloutofourgalaxy.jpg)
You do realise that only worked because the Shadows and Vorlons didn't want to kill everyone?
That option used on the reapers would result in "Critical Mission Failure"
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I want this option to the ending
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss52/DoctorWho99/nowgetthehelloutofourgalaxy.jpg)
You do realise that only worked because the Shadows and Vorlons didn't want to kill everyone?
That option used on the reapers would result in "Critical Mission Failure"
I kinda like Ace's suggestion that the Crucible is a weapon which will destroy all life in the galaxy and leave the Reapers totally unharmed. Threaten mass galactic suicide and maybe they'll have to back down since they clearly need organics for something.
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Wouldn't they just take the chance anyway? If the only choice you give them is either to leave organics create synthetic armaggedon or just cleanse all organics, then they'll figure that the only difference between those two choices is that in one of them they'll eventually have to confront a mega-powerful synthetic race.
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Wouldn't they just take the chance anyway? If the only choice you give them is either to leave organics create synthetic armaggedon or just cleanse all organics, then they'll figure that the only difference between those two choices is that in one of them they'll eventually have to confront a mega-powerful synthetic race.
I'm just presuming here that the whole 'inevitably synthetic armageddon' thing would also be gone because it's dumb.
I can whip up a completely different explanation for the Reapers (distinct from Ace's or the actual textual explanation) in like thirty seconds, there are so many routes they could've gone.
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Unrelated note.
(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7029/masseffect3201203141834.png)
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4039/masseffect3201204022132.png)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5765/masseffect3201204022135.png)
(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5765/masseffect3201204022135.png)
._.
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http://www.thatvideogameblog.com/2012/04/02/bioware-prepping-amazing-mass-effect-3-announcement-for-pax/
This could very well turn out to be just a rumor, but friday isn't exactly far so we'll know soon enough.
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lawl.
If this rumor spreads as fast and as far as I expect it to, Bioware would be well-advised to have an announcement ready whether they had originally planned to or not.
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Umm. On the scale of rumourness, this one barely registers as a "well, duh". Of course they're going to make some sort of announcement at PAX.
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Multi expansion packs I assume.
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I'm going to be at PAX East and I'm going to go to the Bioware panel and when they don't announce anything meaningful new for the ending I'm going to get up from my seat and turn purple and then teleport up onto the stage in stuttering increments wailing the scream of a broken soul and pick Mac Walters up with my mass effect fields and put my hand into his spine and snap it and his teammates will try to revive him but it'll be too late (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-unsmigghh.gif)
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I'm going to be at PAX East and I'm going to go to the Bioware panel and when they don't announce anything meaningful new for the ending I'm going to get up from my seat and turn purple and then teleport up onto the stage in stuttering increments wailing the scream of a broken soul and pick Mac Walters up with my mass effect fields and put my hand into his spine and snap it and his teammates will try to revive him but it'll be too late (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-unsmigghh.gif)
I hope they don't announce anything meaningful new for the ending so that this happens.
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get up from my seat and turn purple
not a valid color, please choose from redttuta, bluttuta, or greenttuta
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I'm going to be at PAX East and I'm going to go to the Bioware panel and when they don't announce anything meaningful new for the ending I'm going to get up from my seat and turn purple and then teleport up onto the stage in stuttering increments wailing the scream of a broken soul and pick Mac Walters up with my mass effect fields and put my hand into his spine and snap it and his teammates will try to revive him but it'll be too late (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-unsmigghh.gif)
:lol:
not a valid color, please choose from redttuta, bluttuta, or greenttuta
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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I'm going to be at PAX East and I'm going to go to the Bioware panel and when they don't announce anything meaningful new for the ending I'm going to get up from my seat and turn purple and then teleport up onto the stage in stuttering increments wailing the scream of a broken soul and pick Mac Walters up with my mass effect fields and put my hand into his spine and snap it and his teammates will try to revive him but it'll be too late (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-unsmigghh.gif)
battuta
why are you a banshee
i thought you were a marauder
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I'm going to be at PAX East and I'm going to go to the Bioware panel and when they don't announce anything meaningful new for the ending I'm going to get up from my seat and turn purple and then teleport up onto the stage in stuttering increments wailing the scream of a broken soul and pick Mac Walters up with my mass effect fields and put my hand into his spine and snap it and his teammates will try to revive him but it'll be too late (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-unsmigghh.gif)
Right, one of my coworkers is going, I told him he needs to get video if this happens.
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Sooo, this just happened (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120405005304/en/BioWare-Announces-Mass-Effect-3-Extended-Cut):
BioWare, a Label of Electronic Arts Inc. announced Mass Effect™ 3: Extended Cut, a downloadable content pack that will expand upon the events at the end of the critically acclaimed Action RPG. Through additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will give fans seeking further clarity to the ending of Mass Effect 3 deeper insights into how their personal journey concludes. Coming this summer, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will be available for download on the Xbox 360® videogame and entertainment system, PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system and PC for no extra charge.
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hey, cool
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Still means no final confrontation with Harbinger, I've been wanting to kill that annoying bastard for the stupid one liner harassment all through out ME2.
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Still means no such thing, because there are no details given on how this will be integrated into the game.
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Sooo, this just happened (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120405005304/en/BioWare-Announces-Mass-Effect-3-Extended-Cut):
(http://i.imgur.com/mrM3j.gif)
I have faith that they will now create a well deserved ending for the ME series!
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Sooo, this just happened (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120405005304/en/BioWare-Announces-Mass-Effect-3-Extended-Cut):
(http://i.imgur.com/mrM3j.gif)
I have faith that they will now create a well deserved ending for the ME series!
(http://captionsearch.com/pix/7vzal287ni.jpg)
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Two things that don't smell good.
First, "the change will occur through additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes", followed by Casey Hudson's "“We have re-prioritized our post-launch development efforts to provide the fans who want more closure with even more context and clarity to the ending of the game, in a way that will feel more personalized for each player", doesn't really sound like they're actually going to address any issues. It certainly doesn't make the "indoctrination theory" seem plausible at all. What it sounds like to me is that they're going to make a few voice acted cinematics, then code in a system that will check your saves for your choices and decide which ones to play. I could be wrong, of course, but it sounds like they won't be fixing the problem, but rather attempting to tell us why the current endings do make sense after all. And we'll still be stuck with the tri-color nonsensical ending, just with a bit more trimmings on the side.
Secondly, "coming out this summer" is actually a long time for something they supposedly "planned in advance". If they had planned it in advance they'd be ready by now. "Coming out this summer" means "let's try to do some damage control with the fans, can you guys make the loudest of protestors go away with some DLC whipped up in 2-3 months?"
I really hope I end up being proven wrong on this, but this announcement does not sound to me like anything that will actually wash the bitter taste those last 10 minutes leave.
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maybe they'll at least address the lack of character closure. who knows!
Secondly, "coming out this summer" is actually a long time for something they supposedly "planned in advance". If they had planned it in advance they'd be ready by now. "Coming out this summer" means "let's try to do some damage control with the fans, can you guys make the loudest of protestors go away with some DLC whipped up in 2-3 months?"
They didn't say they'd planned this in advance. In fact they pretty much explicitly said it is in response to the fan upset.
"We have reprioritized our post-launch development efforts [blah blah]"
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They've got room for six options on the dialog wheel. They had better add violet, orange, and yellow endings.
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i'm holding out for the complete ROYGBIV suite
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After Bioware release orange, yellow, and violet endings and see that players are mad that they can't pick indigo, Bioware will release a cutscene DLC providing even more explanation as to why indigo was not offered as an option.
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After Bioware release orange, yellow, and violet endings and see that players are mad that they can't pick indigo, Bioware will release a cutscene DLC providing even more explanation as to why indigo was not offered as an option.
itt: an indigo prophecy
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First, "the change will occur through additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes", followed by Casey Hudson's "“We have re-prioritized our post-launch development efforts to provide the fans who want more closure with even more context and clarity to the ending of the game, in a way that will feel more personalized for each player", doesn't really sound like they're actually going to address any issues. It certainly doesn't make the "indoctrination theory" seem plausible at all. What it sounds like to me is that they're going to make a few voice acted cinematics, then code in a system that will check your saves for your choices and decide which ones to play. I could be wrong, of course, but it sounds like they won't be fixing the problem, but rather attempting to tell us why the current endings do make sense after all. And we'll still be stuck with the tri-color nonsensical ending, just with a bit more trimmings on the side.
I for one look forward to what they'll put out. My main complaint about the ending is how disconnected it feels from the rest of the game in terms of it acknowledging your choices; if this fixes that aspect, I am pretty happy. Also, telling us how the current endings make sense and fit into the narrative is a bad thing? I thought the reason why all of the internet had a massive rage was because the endings were not smoothly integrated with the rest of the game?
Secondly, "coming out this summer" is actually a long time for something they supposedly "planned in advance". If they had planned it in advance they'd be ready by now. "Coming out this summer" means "let's try to do some damage control with the fans, can you guys make the loudest of protestors go away with some DLC whipped up in 2-3 months?"
Where did it say that they planned this exact content package in advance?
I really hope I end up being proven wrong on this, but this announcement does not sound to me like anything that will actually wash the bitter taste those last 10 minutes leave.
To be honest, while this isn't exactly what I wanted, it is pretty close. And let us not forget that no matter what BW would have done, someone would be crying about it. So, again, I am looking forward to it. I am neither cynical nor egotistical enough to automatically say "This is going to be bad because it's not exactly what I wanted".
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It's never going to be able to wash the taste away; the damage is done.
I'm glad they're doing something but at this point I just hope it all bites them in the ass and they collapse in some spectacular hilarious fashion. The drama post-release has been more emotionally satisfying than the game was.
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At least that DLC will be free of charge. That's more than what could be hoped from EA.
And Battuta, I think you can stop hating now. It's bad for you.
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At least that DLC will be free of charge. That's more than what could be hoped from EA.
And Battuta, I think you can stop hating now. It's bad for you.
(http://fi.somethingawful.com/safs/smilies/3/1/feelsgood.001.png)
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I'm glad they're doing something but at this point I just hope it all bites them in the ass and they collapse in some spectacular hilarious fashion.
So you want a developer company which has developed many good games (listed below) roll over and die just because they mucked ending of one game?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioware#Games
I'm sorry. But can you please stop being such a drama queen.
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So you want a developer company which has developed many good games (listed below) roll over and die just because they mucked ending of one game?
Forgive us, oh noble Fury, but we're kinda tired of seeing developers skate on their mistakes. Change involves lasting consequences.
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There are a ton of games that are utterly ****ty from beginning to end, why don't you folks go bother their developers?
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Bioware had 1.5 mediocre game releases in a row (counting ME3 only half because it's 99% brilliance, as opposed to DA2, which was a full disappointment), with all the fan outrage that came with it. While I certainly wish that they have drawn the consequences out of that, I am not going to wish them death either.
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There are a ton of games that are utterly ****ty from beginning to end, why don't you folks go bother their developers?
You assume I'm not.
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I'm glad they're doing something but at this point I just hope it all bites them in the ass and they collapse in some spectacular hilarious fashion.
So you want a developer company which has developed many good games (listed below) roll over and die just because they mucked ending of one game?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioware#Games
I'm sorry. But can you please stop being such a drama queen.
It's all been downhill since we heard that the button and the awesome were connected now
Mostly I am motivated by the fact that this would be completely hilarious. But there is a scrap of genuine desire in there to see BioWare's smug corporate culture torn down and rebuilt into something capable of producing the kind of game they like to think they're making. The self-congratulatory circlejerk that the gaming press has formed around BioWare presumably extends within the company's ranks and I would very much like to see them forced to acknowledge that they are peddlers of mid-grade hack stories rather than 'emotionally engaging' masterpieces, producers of safe, derivative fanservice rather than cutting edge auteurs.
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They didn't say they'd planned this in advance. In fact they pretty much explicitly said it is in response to the fan upset.
I know that. The "indoctrination theory" postulates that they planned it in advance. This sort of blows that out of the water. It would appear that they actually thought that the ending they gave us was good, or at least acceptable.
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This is truly laughable. What they're really saying is "Waaaaaaaaah, don't criticize us!" and "We better get this wrapped up quickly, or we'll lose sales!"
People should be calling out Casey Hudson for being a sack of sheet and whining like a child whenever someone gives him valid criticism, not whining about endings. Because: Because until someone SOMEHOW gets Casey Hudson to stop being such a manchild and accept that he is not very good at this storywriting business, there will never be anything remotely resembling a good ending "DLC". :yes:
I can understand people distrusting criticism in the past because said criticism was delivered in a overly assholish fashion, but Jesus Christ of Nazareth is Casey whining. Man, even some DeviantArt "artists" don't ***** this hard. At least they don't try to hide the fact hat they're whining. :nono:
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Also, telling us how the current endings make sense and fit into the narrative is a bad thing? I thought the reason why all of the internet had a massive rage was because the endings were not smoothly integrated with the rest of the game?
It wouldn't be a bad thing if I thought they, or anyone else, could actually make those endings make sense. What I really think they need is a complete rewrite. Let me put it this way; they're adding duct tape to make it "sort of work" when they should be replacing the part. At least imo. But, free DLC, so even though I'm fairly skeptical towards this I'm going to reserve final judgement until I get to play it.
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Bunch of haters. All of y'all.
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I think it has more to do with the feeling that we all have been ripped off more than hate. I bought into the hype they were putting out and purchased the collectors edition and what I got was a grossly unfinished product and it isn't just because of the endings though they are terrible.
If you compare the length of time it took to complete the single player campaign to the first two installments in the series you would immediately begin to think some thing is wrong. My first couple play through of the first two games took around 50 hours each in comparison to the just over 20 for ME3 and that is with doing all those stupid fetch quest and running around the citadel for hours trying to figure out how to complete them because the quest log was broken and useless compared to previous titles. The fetch quest themselves wouldn't have been all that bad had they been broken up by some really decent sidequest. There were so many missed opportunities to make sidequest to rescue key personnel and technology from behind enemy lines that you can't but feel bioware dropped the ball here. Multilayer is nice but it is so buggy and limited it doesn't make up for the small size of the single player campaign.
The previous two titles had massive amounts of dialogue and that was definitely missing from ME3. I was used to having tons of options in talking to the npc's but in the third installment your lucky if you get 2 options if any at all. Moving the characters around the ship and citadel and having them talking to each other was a nice touch but I can't help but sense this was to cover for the lack of personal interaction missing from the previous titles.
The Tali face reveal was in short just lazy and poorly executed. If you are going to do it at all do it right and add a small bit to the end of the homeworld cutscene where she takes her mask off. An extra 5 seconds of cutscene should not have taken long and there was more than enough wasted effort in cutscene creation for the marketing campaign. Honestly there seemed to be just as many unused cutscenes created for marketing as there was in the entire game. I would have rather kept the mystery of what she looked like under that suit than to see a doctored up stock photo crammed in the last second.
Mission design was actually fairly well executed and ME3 does contain some of the best missions in the series. The Krogan homeworld missions were particularly good but this level of quality seems to just drop off in the end. It's almost like they hired a completely different development team and rushed them to complete the retake Earth mission. There is no final confrontation like in the first two games either, instead the final battle is with a midlevel enemy introduced early on in the game. I was looking forward to finally being able to face Harbringer and giving him the collective ass kicking he deserved for hounding and annoying me all through out ME2 but the only glimpse of him we get is as a piece of backround for the run to a magical beam of light. Again another missed opportunity by Bioware to meaningfully tie up loose ends in the final moments of game play.
As for the endings themselves, enough has been said already and I don't wish to get into it any more than to say that they were rushed and poorly executed. The star child doesn't belong and feels badly out of place, the lack of an option to question him or tell him to go hell cheapens the experience even more.
Over all the game does have its moments but in the end I can't help but feel that it needed almost another year of development time to truly get it right and end Shepard's story properly. What we got was a incomplete and rushed into production product to satisfy EA's need to make the almighty dollar.
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I'm glad they're doing something but at this point I just hope it all bites them in the ass and they collapse in some spectacular hilarious fashion. The drama post-release has been more emotionally satisfying than the game was.
Maybe for you. For me the drama was nothing but irritating.
I for one hope the retake movement collapses in some hillarious fashion. And also EA.
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http://www.neoseeker.com/news/18780-mass-effect-3-multiplayer-getting-new-races-in-resurgence-pack-dlc/
so this in addition to ending dlc
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Bunch of haters. All of y'all.
You telling me that the final red/blue/green bit gonna be good with more detail? It's still "what flavor would you like your galactic genocide".
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What I'm saying is that the ending doesn't deserve the immoderate hating it got.
Also, hating the ending got waaaaay too mainstream for me to handle.
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"I hated it before hating it was popular!"
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"I hated it before hating it was popular!"
You hated it before anybody played it?
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Just got back from the DA and ME panels at PAX. Oh man were they defensive
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I want video footage of your transformation into a wailing Banshee.
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at least we get playable geths
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at least we get playable geths
wait you can be a robot in this game? man I might end up getting it after all
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You didn't play banshee wail sound there, did you Badttuta? Son, I am disappoint.
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Just got back from the DA and ME panels at PAX. Oh man were they defensive
I wanna hear more details about this
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Just got back from the DA and ME panels at PAX. Oh man were they defensive
i would be too if you were coming after me like so:
I'm going to be at PAX East and I'm going to go to the Bioware panel and when they don't announce anything meaningful new for the ending I'm going to get up from my seat and turn purple and then teleport up onto the stage in stuttering increments wailing the scream of a broken soul and pick Mac Walters up with my mass effect fields and put my hand into his spine and snap it and his teammates will try to revive him but it'll be too late (http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-unsmigghh.gif)
also
Maybe for you. For me the drama was nothing but irritating.
I for one hope the retake movement collapses in some hillarious fashion. And also EA.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your counter whining doesn't really help much (nor do most people care)
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To make up for my failure I'm going to find the BioWare guys at PAX today, tell them they ****ed up, and instruct them to hire me
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To make up for my failure I'm going to find the BioWare guys at PAX today, tell them they ****ed up, and instruct them to hire me
That plan sounds perfect to me
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Mass Effect 4: Battutta's World
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Not Sure If Want.
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can't possibly be as bad as what there is, although there is a definite chance of deeply depressed or other psychologically complex characters who might be prone to the kind of complete out of character ending that Shepherd had.
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I cornered Patrick Weekes and talked to him for an hour about every problem with the ending and every other thing in the game
he answered all my questions
and gave me an email address to send a job application
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I cornered Patrick Weekes and talked to him for an hour about every problem with the ending and every other thing in the game
he answered all my questions
and gave me an email address to send a job application
That's not true.
...
...
or is it?
Please write down some of the Q&As!
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I cornered Patrick Weekes and talked to him for an hour about every problem with the ending and every other thing in the game
he answered all my questions
and gave me an email address to send a job application
Fo' real?
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Well, sending a job application is probably easy. Getting this application to be considered at all, however, is an entirely different matter.
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Okay, here is what I asked Patrick Weekes, and his answers as best as I can remember them. I've paraphrased but I'm doing my best to stick to what he said rather than introduce any interpretation.
THESE ARE NOT DIRECT QUOTES.
-Is there still a setting to explore after the ending? Is everything ruined?
The setting is definitely not ruined. We still have a big, lively galaxy.
-Will long-distance superluminal travel still be possible post-Ending? (will Tali or Wrex or Garrus see their homeworlds again? Will everyone starve?)
Galactic civilization will rebuild. The mass relays were not necessary for interstellar flight. Remember, what does it say in the Codex about the speed of ships? That's right, 12 lightyears per (day? hour? minute?). And that's only the cruising speed, not the maximum speed.
People have never needed to research basic FTL improvements before because they have mass relays. With the relays gone, new technology will increase that speed. Additionally, the element zero cores of the dead/controlled Reapers can be used to improve FTL drives. :siren:Starflight will continue using conventional FTL.:siren:
-Why did Joker leave Shep behind?
Joker would never abandon Shep without a good reason. Hopefully this will be clear in the Expanded Cut.
-Why can EDI survive the Destroy ending?
We argued a lot about this, I said that she was made of Reapertech and should therefore be destroyed, but (unclear, don't remember - wish I'd been able to ask a followup as his response doesn't make much sense)
-Did anyone on the Citadel survive?
Yes. We would never, ever do anything that made the player feel, on replay, that it would be better for everyone on the Citadel if they just died. The Citadel has emergency shelters and kinetic barriers - even if it blows up, millions might survive. :siren: You should assume that everyone plot-important on the Citadel survived. :siren:
-Is it better for Kelly Chambers if we talk her into suicide?
No, see above.
-Who wrote the death of Joker's sister?
I did! We intentionally did not connect the dots. We were very interested to see how fast gamers figured it out.
-Whose idea was it to make the Rayya fall out of the sky if you destroy the Quarian fleet?
Someone in the audio department, it was brilliant.
-Did the mass relays pull an Arrival and go supernova?
No, they didn't. (i'm paraphrasing here, please don't interpret this too hard) They overloaded, they didn't rupture. :siren:We really didn't mean to imply that the whole galaxy had been destroyed. People interpreted the ending in ways we really didn't expect. :siren:
(Mr. Weekes dropped a lot of hints that he really didn't like the ending. He also said something that was almost 100% verbatim from the Penny Arcade Forum post often attributed to him)
-Why did Legion pull a 180 from his Mass Effect 2 philosophy?
He and the Geth were backed into a corner. They'd been made a lot dumber by the attack on the Dyson swarm. There was no other choice for Geth survival.
-What was up with the Rachni story? Why did we get railroaded?
Welcome to game development. In some games (Alpha Protocol) they make a bold choice where some decisions can knock entire missions out of the story. At BioWare, we never want people to be locked out of content due to a decision several games ago. We just didn't have the resources to do an alternate for the Rachni mission, so we decided that the Rachni mission could occur whether or not players saved the Queen.
-Why didn't (X squadmate from ME2) return?
There was a very ugly month of development where we fought out who would return. We knew we had to have a smaller cast so we could fit in more squad banter. Eventually we decided to bring Garrus and Tali back, so they could be squadmates in all three games. We also knew we'd have Vega in order for new players to have someone dumber than they were.
I was very resentful of Vega at first because I thought he was taking a slot that could've gone to a ME2 character, but he grew on me.
-Why did EDI have cameltoe?
We don't get a lot of feedback from the art department but (unclear, wish I remembered this better :( )
Lots of discussion about how he was uncomfortable doing Pinocchio stories for both Legion and EDI because 'EDI was fine, she was an AI, she was cool - do we really need her to turn into Commander Data? We had seven seasons of Data, that was enough.'
-Why did you write Pinocchio stories for all the synthetic caracters?
See above
-What was up with the Human Reaper in ME2? Why did it look so dumb?
We wanted to use the Suicide Mission to show several steps of the Reaper development process, from human reaper embryo all the way to cuttlefish. But the mission grew too complicated so it was cut for time.
Do the Reapers really only generate one capital ship per cycle? How do they ever break even?
Well, we never totally pinned that down. But this cycle was really anomalous. They don't normally take any capital-size Reaper losses at all.
-What was up with Kai Leng? How do you feel about him?
We really wanted to have a recurring antagonist for Shep, a 'Darth Maul' (his words). But I feel like there was some definite conflict between cutscene and gameplay there, and I think it's something we have to work on.
'He was a great antagonist in the books' :lol:
-Why did we only get top and bottom dialogue choices, no middle?
Part of it was resources. Part of it is that Mass Effect 3 is a war story and it's really hard for Shep to feel middling about the Reapers.
-How did YOU feel about the ending?
(I didn't ask this, but he seems to have gone to GREAT lengths to think ways around a lot of stuff the ending implied.)
Why no female (alien X?)
Resource limitations. They have a very strict budget for how many different characters they can use in a given area. Some are basically free - if you have human males you have Batarians because they're humans with funny heads, if you have human females you have asari, etc.
Where was Harbinger? Can we ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of him?
I definitely want more closure on Harbinger. That'd be hilarious. Stop punching yourself, Harbinger.
Things I wish I'd asked:
Why the damn Starchild?
What was up with the Stargazer? (He touched on the Stargazer once and pretty much said 'oh, yeah, the Stargazer.'
Again: NOT DIRECT QUOTES. These are NOT OFFICIAL BIOWARE STATEMENTS. Please don't **** Patrick Weekes over by posting these as 'official BioWare PR' or whatever. Please feel free to ask me follow-up questions, as I definitely didn't cover the whole conversation with him.
My takeaway was: the epilogue DLC is probably going to do a lot of good and be pretty well written, and Patrick Weekes should've been lead writer on ME3.
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Well, sending a job application is probably easy. Getting this application to be considered at all, however, is an entirely different matter.
Actually the writers told me exactly how they all got their jobs, and it was all the same technique :nervous:
I got to spend some time talking to David Gaider about Dragon Age, too.
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So many are complaining about the ending. I'm surprised the guy didn't prod you away with a pitchfork. I would have liked to have been there.
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I cornered Patrick Weekes and talked to him for an hour about every problem with the ending and every other thing in the game
he answered all my questions
and gave me an email address to send a job application
either an outright fabrication or you were really impressive in your prodding. I'm sure the last thing he wants to do is give more fanboys an excuse to complain.
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either an outright fabrication or you were really impressive in your prodding. I'm sure the last thing he wants to do is give more fanboys an excuse to complain.
look at the top of this page bro
also i forgot a question i asked about harbinger, editing that in
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Did you tell him that Bioware should have let him ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of the script?
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Thanks, Battuta. That was a satisfying read :nod:
Any infos about the uninspired Illusive-Man (=Saren²) ending?
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Again: NOT DIRECT QUOTES. These are NOT OFFICIAL BIOWARE STATEMENTS. Please don't **** Patrick Weekes over by posting these as 'official BioWare PR' or whatever. Please feel free to ask me follow-up questions, as I definitely didn't cover the whole conversation with him.
Frankly, if this is a concern you probably shouldn't have made that post. You're relying on every person who reads it to not share it with anyone. Which doesn't strike me as realistic. I don't expect that post to end up as an item of kotaku click-bait, but being posted on the BSN isn't exactly outside the realm of possibility. Even after a personal appeal from someone as well-liked by this community as yourself.
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Believe me, this is not the only place it went up and definitely not the most likely to end up on BSN :nervous:
I'm just hoping people will cite it as an off-the-cuff, paraphrased conversation rather than as an official set of BioWare statements.
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lol, it's on BSN already
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lol, it's on BSN already
Yeah just noticed that, you're famous now battuta.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11154234
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Believe me, this is not the only place it went up and definitely not the most likely to end up on BSN :nervous:
Haha, SA. I guess you didn't really want to apply for a position with them, then.
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Actually the reaction's been pretty positive, Mr. Weekes said they were great questions, no harm done.
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Maybe for you. For me the drama was nothing but irritating.
I for one hope the retake movement collapses in some hillarious fashion. And also EA.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your counter whining doesn't really help much (nor do most people care)
So? You think the end whining helps?
I've got just as much right to whine and hate the whiners as they have the right to whine and hate the crappy ending.
Of course, God forbid we have a diverging oppinion!
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Actually the reaction's been pretty positive, Mr. Weekes said they were great questions, no harm done.
Oh? My mistake then, and I'm very glad to hear it.
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Weekes says you put a negative spin on things Battuta. I guess that you still let your discontent bleed through a bit. I'll not really seeing it though.
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There was some stuff he wanted clarified and honestly I did a ****ty job of paraphrasing him, so he has every right to be a bit pissy. But he wasn't! I guess he's a saint.
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I've got just as much right to whine and hate the whiners as they have the right to whine and hate the crappy ending.
Of course, God forbid we have a diverging oppinion!
I didn't say you didn't, I merely said that whining for the sake of whining won't cancel out the other whining nor help anything.
I never said anything even regarding your opinion about the ending or otherwise in the least. Cut it with the strawmen.
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mmm you missed a big one, why shep survives in the red ending if him is half synthetic... shep can even live whiout all the implants from ME2?
So bad you didnt asked about similar things in Freespace and BSG in ME3 history... i mean, in the ME3 ending you can see reapers flying and firing in horizontal line in space, at first i trought someone repainted a Cain or something... haha
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"Ah, yes. "Trolltutta." We have dismissed that claim."
Post if you saw this interview on BSN or elsewhere before seeing it here.
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So...really late to the party, I guess, but I just beat it. I chose the synthesis ending...I thought it was really cool. Kind of ties in with BSG and a lot of modern thought. I was a bit disappointed how we did the final charge and there was no closure as to the state of my squadmates (Tali and Garrus), however since I saw Tali in the final cutscene I guess they all made it out alive. The ending was emotionally fulfilling for me; the lack of my decisions having an impact didn't really bother me - I liked that I had a final decision in the end to choose.
All in all I found it really satisfying, though I'll be the first to admit I'm a pretty big fanboy of the ME series.
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So...really late to the party, I guess, but I just beat it. I chose the synthesis ending...I thought it was really cool. Kind of ties in with BSG and a lot of modern thought.
no, no it doesn't
it does tie in with 4/20 though, that's today
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So...really late to the party, I guess, but I just beat it. I chose the synthesis ending...I thought it was really cool. Kind of ties in with BSG and a lot of modern thought.
no, no it doesn't
it does tie in with 4/20 though, that's today
Well I feel like it does...the concept of the singularity, of the merging of organic and synthetic life. In BSG it was the same concept; a never ending cycle that finally ends (?) with a new future, in the merging of the synthetic and the organic; Reapers and organics in ME, Boomer and Helo's baby in BSG. It's a similar underpinning between both universes.
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The Singularity is an interesting if flawed piece of philosophical exploration (I should know, I won a free ride to college writing about it). Mass Effect 3's ending has nothing to do with it. It tries to drop the name but doesn't actually put any thought into what it's saying - it's simply spewing empty jargon about 'a new framework, a new DNA', like a salesman who doesn't really understand what he's talking about. This is because the writers on the team who actually understand the concept of a technological singularity either left BioWare or were marginalized during the writing of the ending.
You also missed the point of the BSG ending, which is interesting; the cycle isn't broken, it's happening all over again but there's maybe a possibility that something will happen. Of course, the thing about BSG is that the ending derives from themes present throughout the whole series, whereas the ending of Mass Effect 3 is actively opposed to the themes of everything before.
If you smoke a joint and get high enough that you can't really think about much except whoa, man, it totally seems like it's profound, though
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Well there are many different potentials for the "singularity". I won't say it's a definite, just something that's a possibility, and a very wide one at that. That's cool that you won a free ride to college just for writing about it.
And I don't know; the possibility of bio-machines, of machines that can grow - at what point does chemistry end and biology begin? Where does mechanical engineering become surgical restructuring? There's been some very divided lines in the past that I think are starting to become blurred, and I personally think that's a good thing. "A new DNA" could mean the purposeful altering of current organic life to be more accepting to synthetic life; or the redesign of synthetic life to essentially be organic life. Would a heart pumping blood in the veins of a machine make it a human? If that machine broke down oxygen to generate power in a chemical reaction, but had a silicon brain that was powered by it...what then?
With the BSG ending, I feel like we're both saying the same thing;
; a never ending cycle that finally ends (?) with a new future,
and your quote;
but there's maybe a possibility that something will happen.
But I don't follow this, could you explain it a bit more?
whereas the ending of Mass Effect 3 is actively opposed to the themes of everything before.
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Well there are many different potentials for the "singularity". I won't say it's a definite, just something that's a possibility, and a very wide one at that. That's cool that you won a free ride to college just for writing about it.
Writing brilliantly
And I don't know; the possibility of bio-machines, of machines that can grow - at what point does chemistry end and biology begin? Where does mechanical engineering become surgical restructuring? There's been some very divided lines in the past that I think are starting to become blurred, and I personally think that's a good thing. "A new DNA" could mean the purposeful altering of current organic life to be more accepting to synthetic life; or the redesign of synthetic life to essentially be organic life. Would a heart pumping blood in the veins of a machine make it a human? If that machine broke down oxygen to generate power in a chemical reaction, but had a silicon brain that was powered by it...what then?
These are all interesting questions which Mass Effect 3, and its ending, do not give a **** about and have not put one whit of thought into. The game's ending can only gesture suggestively in the direction of superior works while invoking mere magic.
The idea of the Geth suddenly sprouting tumorous lumps of flesh is pretty horrifying, though, I think they'd much prefer to be destroyed
Really I think the most powerful symbol of the intellectual and ludic laziness of Mass Effect 3's ending - particularly the synthesis ending - is Joker's hat. It's a symptom of how enormously rushed the whole affair was that even his inanimate baseball cap gets the green Synthesis veins.
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Writing brilliantly
Haha, I don't doubt it. :)
These are all interesting questions which Mass Effect 3, and its ending, do not give a **** about and have not put one whit of thought into. The game's ending can only gesture suggestively in the direction of superior works while invoking mere magic.
The idea of the Geth suddenly sprouting tumorous lumps of flesh is pretty horrifying, though, I think they'd much prefer to be destroyed
To be fair the ending was a bit shortened; they didn't expand on some very basic things, like whether or not my squad died in the final assault. But I like that the opening left the door open for these discussions.
As for the Geth...I doubt you really thought I was saying they'd be sprouting lumps of flesh. :p
Really I think the most powerful symbol of the intellectual and ludic laziness of Mass Effect 3's ending - particularly the synthesis ending - is Joker's hat. It's a symptom of how enormously rushed the whole affair was that even his inanimate baseball cap gets the green Synthesis veins.
Ok, while they could have put the detail and effort in for that, I'm sure it's more like a technical issue with the game engine and how the models were put together for the rest of the game.
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It's certainly a technical issue, but it's one that would've been sorted out if the ending weren't written and hacked together at the last minute.
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I don't know if it was written and hacked together at the last minute; Mass Effect was originally planned to be a trilogy from the beginning. I feel like the ending was planned from the beginning, they just ran out of time. I think EA might have put extra pressure on BioWare to get this title out on time.
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I don't know if it was written and hacked together at the last minute; Mass Effect was originally planned to be a trilogy from the beginning. I feel like the ending was planned from the beginning, they just ran out of time. I think EA might have put extra pressure on BioWare to get this title out on time.
You are unfortunately wrong. If you've read this thread you know that I've spoken at length with members of the Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 writing team about the ME3 ending. Additionally, there's extensive behind-the-scenes material available from the same guy who did the behind-the-scenes doc for Portal 2. This ending was not planned from the beginning (a fact confirmed both by ME3 behind the scenes material, my own interviews, and members of the ME1 writing staff), and in fact the lead writers were struggling to come up with an ending until the very last months of ME3 development. They had to delay recording with Martin Sheen because they didn't even have his dialogue written.
After months of struggle, lead writer Mac Walters - after a night of drinking - scrawled out the outline of the ending on a piece of notebook paper with the infamous conclusion LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYBODY, and it was then hastily developed by the lead writer and the lead developer without input from the rest of the writing team (for example, the guys responsible for the superlative Tuchanka level.) This is why much of the Mass Effect 3 writing staff quietly dislikes the ending and and why we're getting an Extended Cut to try to fix it.
The original ending for the series planned during Mass Effect 2 development, by the original lead writer Drew Karpyshyn, involved dark energy and a plot very similar to that one TNG episode where warp drive turns out to be damaging space-time. It was ditched after he left, but you can still see the foreshadowing set up in ME2 with the Haestrom subplot.
Patrick Weekes told me that they're going to try to work these loose plot threads from the old ending into the Extended Cut so it all ties together better. I personally think that ending is just as bad, so I'm glad they didn't go with it.
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I haven't read the thread because by now it's 30 pages and I just finished the story...I haven't had time to finish the game. :\ I did read your interview, thanks for doing that though. :) That's too bad that it wasn't planned from the beginning, though, I still feel like the ending was good enough for me to be satisfied with the series, though I can understand how some people might have large issues with it.
To be fair, it would have been hard to end this series; they made it all to be so massive, the stakes so high...I guess rewriting the fabric of life was a good way of doing it, at least IMO.
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To be fair ME3 ends up being the most mediocre chapter in the series due mostly in part to the entire retake earth mission, endings and few other obviously rushed aspects of the games. This is despite having the most well put together missions in the entire series in the form of the Krogan and Quarian Homeworlds. The shortfalls of the rest of the game just utterly ruins it's replay value and this is from some one who played the hell out of the previous two titles with well over a dozen runs to import into the last chapter. I've tried to bring myself to do more than one playthrough but I just can't do it and I've been forced to play that buggy as hell multiplayer just to try to get my money's worth out of the damn Collectors Edition. At this point I'm just praying that Diablo 3 delivers enough to make me forget this whole fiasco. I haven't joined the whole retake movement going on over there on BSN but I have stated that I will no longer blindly trust Bioware and by extension EA to produce a quality game enough to preorder from them ever again. I got burned on both DA2 and now ME3 so any future purchases will be made well after the first price drop and no more preorders.
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Yes, the stakes were high and they were not up for the challenge. However, I don't think it would be required some kind of a genious of a writer. Just someone competent knowledgeable about the plot themes and the inducing vertigo that they pose philosophically. Which perhaps is a rarity of itself I dunno. I can say one thing though. When we reach Virmire and we get that dialogue with Sovereign, they fooled me into thinking they were going to do something extraordinary.
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You also missed the point of the BSG ending, which is interesting; the cycle isn't broken, it's happening all over again but there's maybe a possibility that something will happen. Of course, the thing about BSG is that the ending derives from themes present throughout the whole series, whereas the ending of Mass Effect 3 is actively opposed to the themes of everything before.
Is it? In what way?
And if it is - so what? Is there a requirement to stick to a pre-concieved theme like glue?
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Do you really want people to waste their time to explain it to you *again*? :rolleyes:
A requirement? I guess not.
A good idea? Definitely.
Unless you think that it would be a good idea to end a 2 hour long romance chick flick with a 10 minute gorey action scene in which the whole cast is horribly screwed over.
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Throwing out a tacked-on ending that completely ignores all of the themes expanded on in the work is pretty much a textbook definition of "bad writing."
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Only if you think that one must stick to what you percive as a main theme.
For some, anything other that giving the reapers the finger is a betrayl of the main theme. What IS ME's theme?
At least for me, themes carry little significance. Life has no theme.
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This is about survival!
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At least for me, themes carry little significance. Life has no theme.
Which would explain why you're not a writer. :p
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Only if you think that one must stick to what you percive as a main theme.
Well, when what you perceive to be the main theme is pretty ****ing clear, and then you have an ending that has none of the same themes as the rest of the game(s), you have bad writing.
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Do you really want people to waste their time to explain it to you *again*? :rolleyes:
A requirement? I guess not.
A good idea? Definitely.
Unless you think that it would be a good idea to end a 2 hour long romance chick flick with a 10 minute gorey action scene in which the whole cast is horribly screwed over.
Your idea intrigues me.
I guess what makes a story a story is to provide a setting the author can use to communicate something meaningful. If you make an adlib filled in by randomly generated words and random acts you're going to have something surprising but probably not something meaningful. You could record the events of some individual's day, and you might have a story, but is there something that story will give to the audience? Why would you waste the audience's time with a big long story having them learn about a situation only to conclude the story which has nothing to do with anything you had them learn previously? they think to themselves, "This whole thing could have been 10 minutes long. I wasted my time.". Storytelling is something difficult to make rules for, and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves, but there are reasons why people gravitate to certain norms.
Here's my take on the ending. I was not a big fan of it but I am not as disturbed by it as many others I have heard. The first time I played the ending I was anticipating a typical climactic game ending: a boss fight with the reaper king, Sheppard making that last stand against the reapers and blowing them all away with some kind of super cannon, a united galactic force triumphant, something like that. I was actually pretty hooked even after the confrontation with the illusive man, but it changed when that platform lifted and Sheppard met with the catalyst. WHY THE HELL IS THE CATALYST THAT KID YOU SAW BURN ON EARTH?! Sorry, had to say that cause it still makes me mad. I did poorly with the campaign (low war assets) and only got one choice as a result, I had to go 'red' and kill the reapers with some undesirable events occurring along the way. To me, I thought this was the single choice in the game. So the dialogue went with kid catalyst explaining to me my single option and Sheppard JUST ROLLING OVER AND ACCEPTING IT! But hey, maybe Sheppard knows more than I do, so I kept watching. By the time I saw Joker reach out with faded life and the credits appeared I was confused. I figured, hey, I didn't like the ending, but maybe I just didn't understand it and people who are into mass effect lore more than me are satisfied. So at that point I just set the ending aside as 'confusing'. I was pretty interested in multiplayer at the time anyways, so no big loss for me.
Looking back though, I do feel bad for people who replayed Mass Effect 1 and 2 in order to get every little aspect of the story the way they wanted, only for the outcome of those events to carry no meaning. The only thing that matters in the end is a single number (war assets) which gives you 3 choices, and these 3 choices don't really fit with the journey of mass effect 1 and 2. No triumph through brotherhood, no struggle to outplay the bad guy's hand, no stroke of genius in the eleventh hour, no you're sort of handed these 3 choices which Sheppard accepts will play out exactly how kid catalyst says they will. (Really now, who the heck would believe kid catalyst? For all I know he's got Sheppard locked in a dream and is cutting his corpse into mince meat while he's under.) After you make the choice, the cut scene leaves a lot unexplained, which I now understand is true for everyone and not just me.
Now here's what I like about the ending. Yeah that's right, just cause I don't like the ending does not mean I have to hate every last bit of it now do I? I liked how the option that the whole series has been building you up to want to do, the option to destroy the reapers, was to me the least desirable option. It's kind of a twist how the synthesis or even the control option positions the reapers as an asset or even a friend? I found that ambiguity interesting. Also the synthesis concept is pretty interesting to me. Now I know there's no way that "fusing synthetic and organic DNA into something new to begin a new chapter" is in any way explained, but It's a pretty fascinating idea to run with the imagination. What does It mean to be alive? Are machines able to think? What aspects of the machine and what aspects of the organic would contribute to the new form of life? How would our senses change? Would we feel differently? Would the world appear faster/slower?
I also like, yes like, the way that the synthesis cut scene plays out. Joker and EDI try throughout ME3 to better understand one another, but the fact that one is an organic and one is a machine keeps getting in the way. It seems improbable that any sort of relationship could develop. However, under synthesis, they sort of meet in the middle, taking part of themselves and becoming the other half. It's sort of poetic in a really nerdy way. These sort of ideas established by the ending play into some of the themes of mass effect including: darwinian fitness, interpersonal relationships, and the definition of an AI as 'life'.
TL;DR: bigchunk1 is contradicting himself haha
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Unless you think that it would be a good idea to end a 2 hour long romance chick flick with a 10 minute gorey action scene in which the whole cast is horribly screwed over.
Uhhh, like in Titanic, Pearl Harbor, etc.? hehe
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Its like Bioware's games always follow this: An average start, an excellent second act and a climax that ends with a sigh
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The idea of synthetics vs. organics was obviously very prevalent in the game, and I felt that the synthesis ending pulled that together.
WHY THE HELL IS THE CATALYST THAT KID YOU SAW BURN ON EARTH?! Sorry, had to say that cause it still makes me mad
That one was pretty simple for me to explain; it read into Shepard's mind and chose one of the most prominent images it could think of. Why the kid specifically I don't know, but they had been playing at something like that with the dream sequences the whole game.
I wasn't really disgusted at the ending, partly because I'd heard it'd be so awful so I just resolved to go into it with an open mind and hope I liked it; and I mean, I did. There are a lot of holes with it but they're not so bad as to destroy my feelings for the ME universe and story. I would have also been honestly surprised if they had you fight a big bad baddie with a lot of guns and big explosions at the end, because honestly - what choice would that make? It'd be basically ME2's ending a second time...and throughout the whole game, it never felt as if the climax would be a big explosion and that was it. So I wasn't surprised when I was presented with a choice; really, the game reminded me of Deus Ex: Human Revolution in it's ending (the three main choices), which I played a few months ago, so I guess that sort of made me ok with the idea of a simple ABC choice ending.
All that being said, the fact that they skipped completely over what happened to your squad after the final charge kind of irks me. I mean, Tali (whom I took with Garrus) was on the Normandy so I was like...uhh...it's not in their characters but maybe they retreated and were picked up by Joker, the whole invasion was called off, and everyone started to retreat...but yea none of that was well integrated or explained. :\
Really I think one of ME's major problems is that it set people's expectations so high and it had trouble living up to them.
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Only if you think that one must stick to what you percive as a main theme.
Perception nothing, Bioware insisted that player agency was important and then built an ending where it wasn't.
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Eh?
Because Shep didn't come up with his own solution?
I know some people see Shep having to accept one of 3 options as betrays of the "theme", but honestly, that's bollocks.
You basicly want the "theme" rammed up into the audences ass. Did you ever wonder if it makes sense for there to be another solution? Or time for Shepard to implement it?
There not being another way is actually something I find good. Because it's true to real life - there isn't always another way.
Some rage because Shepard doesn't argue enough with the Catalyst. The guy is pretty much half-dead and barely hanging on. That sort of thing tends to drain someone.
Not that I would mind an option for Shepto tell the Cataliyst to STFO and GTH - as long as itends in Critical Mission Faliure.
I've sen plenty of ideas for an alternate ending - and while they certanly offer less plotholes then BW's does, they also tend to suck even more, as tehy become Shepard power-fantasises and player wish-fulfillment.
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You basicly want the "theme" rammed up into the audences ass.
No, we basically want the "theme" to be what Bioware promised its fans the ****ing theme would be.
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And what is this magical theme?
Love and peace unite the Galaxy?
Shepard can do anything?
Self-determiantion?
And I ask you again why do you feel it is necessary to follow a single theme so strictly? Why couldn't there be a tonal shift or a theme shift?
Real life has no themes. It is all over the place.
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:banghead:
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;7
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Generally it is a good idea to not have a game about the inevitability of synthetic/organic conflict (due to synthetics supplanting organics) in which literally every instance of synthetic/organic conflict is due to synthetics acting in self-defense
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Geth pretty much attacked on sight everyone for huderds of years...long after the Quarians were driven away.
Prothy talked about agressive AI's in previous cycle. I'm not so sure the situation is as black-and-white as you say. Especially sicne our knowledge comes from questionable sources.
And frankly, does it even matter who started it? And when it happened? For something to be inveitable, it doesn't have to be happning right now. So Quarians and Geth worked together against the reapers for a short while...what happens after that?
Yeah, the ending is rushed and tacked on, and full of plot holes. Execuation sux. But I don't mind the shift in itself.
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Remind me, were geth attacks really that common? Because I seem to recall that Geth presence outside of the Perseus Veil was a rather unusual sight at the time of ME1.
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I don't know. Doesn't say. It does say that they attacked any ship that came too close to their territory (the Veil).
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Remind me, were geth attacks really that common? Because I seem to recall that Geth presence outside of the Perseus Veil was a rather unusual sight at the time of ME1.
Having just finished a replay of ME1, I can confirm that there are multiple dialogue statements where characters (T'Soni among them while on Therum) refer to no one having seen the Geth outside the Veil in 300 years. I believe it is also mentioned during the events on Eden Prime. It's reinforced in a side mission on board a freighter that went beyond the Veil and came back full of Husks, and Tali makes it pretty clear that even the Quarians don't know what the Geth have been up to since they tossed them off their homeworld.
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what everyone means is that the geth were acting in self defence and the Q were assholes
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ANY ship crossing the veil. ANY. Quarian or not. For 300 years.
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ANY ship crossing the veil. ANY. Quarian or not. For 300 years.
Excuse me please while I call bull**** on this.
Any ship going beyond the veil for three hundred years did not return. First, take a look at the posibilities that leaves us.
1) The Geth attack anyone and everyone.
2) The Geth attack ships that act in a hostile fashion once the Geth encounter them.
3) The Geth don't attack anything, and it's something else in the Veil that disables and/or destroys ships.
Now, let's consider some simple facts as they are presented in Mass Effect.
1) The Geth haven't been seen outside the Veil in 300 years. This, coupled with the fact that no ship that goes beyond the veil ever returns, could be reasonably extrapolated that Geth haven't been seen in 300 years. (reference: Kaiden in the first mission, several other characters)
2) The only time we ever see Geth acting aggressively is when they are under the command of the Reapers, up to and including their instance of self-defense against the Quarians.
3) There is only a small portion of the Geth that is acting under the command of the Reapers. It's not an unreasonable inference to say that Geth that do not follow the Reapers are still non-hostile to organic life. (reference: Legion and his loyalty quest)
So, with that collection of data in hand, we have a set of evidence that Geth do not act aggressively toward organic life under the vast majority of circumstances, up to and including vast enslavement to organic life, but will act in self-defense while attacked. Further, the exposure of the difference in Geth consensus regarding whether to follow the Reapers or not shows that most Geth do not support the destruction of advanced organic life.
Therefore, it is a much more reasonable conclusion that the ships lost in the Perseus Veil are lost either to their own aggressive action toward the Geth, or by some other threat that may lurk there.
Furthermore, the only instances of synthetic life attacking organic life attacking organic life without provocation and not under the direct control of the Reapers were...
****. I'm drawing a blank. Oh, wait, that's because it doesn't happen. Now, that's a problem, because the entire ending cutscene hinges on the fact that synthetic life tries to destroy organic life, and that the reapers try to stop that. By trying to destroy organic life. As synthetics.
That's the problem with the ending, Trash. It's bad because it's inconsistent both with the universe, and the themes in the universe up until that exact moment.
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Exactly what end point do people have in mind for this discussion? Trashman's all 'oh, yeah, you're right'?
There is one primary determinant of what TrashMan thinks about the ending, and we've already seen it in action:
1) people are excited for the game - TrashMan thinks the ending is terrible
2) people hate the ending - TrashMan thinks the ending is fine
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Exactly what end point do people have in mind for this discussion? Trashman's all 'oh, yeah, you're right'?
There is one primary determinant of what TrashMan thinks about the ending, and we've already seen it in action:
1) people are excited for the game - TrashMan thinks the ending is terrible
2) people hate the ending - TrashMan thinks the ending is fine
In conclusion, trashman is a hipster.
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Furthermore, the only instances of synthetic life attacking organic life attacking organic life without provocation and not under the direct control of the Reapers were...
****. I'm drawing a blank. Oh, wait, that's because it doesn't happen. Now, that's a problem, because the entire ending cutscene hinges on the fact that synthetic life tries to destroy organic life, and that the reapers try to stop that. By trying to destroy organic life. As synthetics.
Does the rogue Luna VI count? That's the only case I can think of, and I don't remember if it was actually provoked.
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Furthermore, the only instances of synthetic life attacking organic life attacking organic life without provocation and not under the direct control of the Reapers were...
****. I'm drawing a blank. Oh, wait, that's because it doesn't happen. Now, that's a problem, because the entire ending cutscene hinges on the fact that synthetic life tries to destroy organic life, and that the reapers try to stop that. By trying to destroy organic life. As synthetics.
Does the rogue Luna VI count? That's the only case I can think of, and I don't remember if it was actually provoked.
If I remember right, the base was set to be decommissioned and the VI taken out of service. It was also self-defense. Additionally, the robots therein are never ordered out of the base, at all. When Shepard goes in, it's very clearly self-defense.
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Exactly what end point do people have in mind for this discussion? Trashman's all 'oh, yeah, you're right'?
There is one primary determinant of what TrashMan thinks about the ending, and we've already seen it in action:
1) people are excited for the game - TrashMan thinks the ending is terrible
2) people hate the ending - TrashMan thinks the ending is fine
In conclusion, trashman is a hipster.
Tsk, tsk.. Are you people so desperate yo uahev to lie to get some dirt on me?
A) I never said the ending was "fine". The ending is garbage. BUT that doesn't mean it's 100% in every concievable way and that any random idea from the interent is automaticly better.
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Exactly what end point do people have in mind for this discussion? Trashman's all 'oh, yeah, you're right'?
There is one primary determinant of what TrashMan thinks about the ending, and we've already seen it in action:
1) people are excited for the game - TrashMan thinks the ending is terrible
2) people hate the ending - TrashMan thinks the ending is fine
In conclusion, trashman is a hipster.
Tsk, tsk.. Are you people so desperate yo uahev to lie to get some dirt on me?
A) I never said the ending was "fine". The ending is garbage. BUT that doesn't mean it's 100% in every concievable way and that any random idea from the interent is automaticly better.
This must be why you've been defending the ending from the criticism in this thead. Makes perfect sense. If it's garbage, being the TrashMan, you have to defend it!
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This must be why you've been defending the ending from the criticism in this thead. Makes perfect sense. If it's garbage, being the TrashMan, you have to defend it!
If you don't boter to read what exactly am I defending, i won't bother tryingto explain to you the obvious fallcies you are comitting.
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No, go ahead. I could use a good laugh.
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You see, TrashMan doesn't care about the quality of the ending. All he cares about is making Mass Effect fans feel bad.
Mystery solved!
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This seems to be rather personal attacking. while I can understand, and I'm obviously a relative newcomer, not cool?
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This seems to be rather personal attacking. while I can understand, and I'm obviously a relative newcomer, not cool?
Quite frankly at this point I don't think any of us give a damn anymore. TrashMan has demonstrated he is incapable of civility, admission of wrongdoing, or logic, and given his violent antipathy to these most of us having given up on extending him the courtesy.
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I mean I cant disagree. But still. cool it?
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I mean I cant disagree. But still. cool it?
That is not very likely, we've been at it for ten years already
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TBH, the amount of built in vitriol this forum, and by extension, we forumites, have about topics we feel strongly about cost me my ability to post in general discussion. So no, I dont' think "cooling it" is going to happen any time soon.
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HLP...there never was a more wretched hive of scum and villany. One does not simply walk into HLP... Not with 10000 trolls could you do it.
Anywhoo, I don't understand how such a simple concept as liking/disliking different parts/elements of the same work is beyond understanding of some poeple.
Quite frankly at this point I don't think any of us give a damn anymore. TrashMan has demonstrated he is incapable of civility, admission of wrongdoing, or logic, and given his violent antipathy to these most of us having given up on extending him the courtesy.
You abosolutely ADORE personal attacks, dont' you? How civil....
But go ahead, sorround yourself with yes-men and pretend you have some moral or intelectual high-ground.
Just remember to look into the mirror sometimes and see the monster you have been chasing all the time.
Seriously. This is downright depressing, the amount of vitirol you have for me for DARING to disagree with you on several occasions. Maybe you should try to apply the very same high standards you hold me agaisnt to yourself.
Because in all honesty, I don't see much civility in your posts. You hate me for being blunt and consider me uncivil, yet when you deem someone unworthy (me), you spare no tought to being uncivil and insulting yourself - far more than I ever was. It is obvious to anyone willing to check our respective posting histories - you resort to personal attacks more often...and first.
I really detest this kind of fighting, but I am NOT your personal punching bag for you to insult whenver you feel down. And you keep doing it. And over a friggin game no less!
Not funny.
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And over a friggin game no less!
Not funny.
How about you take your own advice? You're talking about real actual hate and "monsters in the mirror" in a topic about a computer game - those kinds of expressions would be more suitable for some war crimes topic or something along those lines. You may feel others have taken it far, but you can't exactly be absolved of blame on that front either. When you react in the same way as you perceive your "attacker" has, you kinda forfeit your rights to whine about it and be taken seriously.
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And over a friggin game no less!
Not funny.
How about you take your own advice? You're talking about real actual hate and "monsters in the mirror" in a topic about a computer game - those kinds of expressions would be more suitable for some war crimes topic or something along those lines. You may feel others have taken it far, but you can't exactly be absolved of blame on that front either. When you react in the same way as you perceive your "attacker" has, you kinda forfeit your rights to whine about it and be taken seriously.
Defense is always warranted.
Hate? Maybe...Or it could be something else. For stupid reasons, yes, but that doesn't make insults any less real.
I am talking about "monsters" because I am being painted at one. A boogyman. The bad man. Apparently some people have taken to encourage and incite other posters to take pot shots at me. When someone insults me, they get congratulated. When I try to defend myself, I get chasstised for even trying.
Yeah, a real friendly and civil community.
So excuse me if you find my reaction "whiney" and "extreeme", but I'm starting to feel as welcome as a black man on a klan convention (And I know someone will rage about me using this comparison or call me a racist or some garbage like that), any time I don't jump one the band-wagon.
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(http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2009/03/srslyguys.jpg)
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Fight the power, bro.
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(http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2009/03/srslyguys.jpg)
Thank you for being a good example for my point.
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You're a racist, Trashman!
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(http://www.frumsatire.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/gay-black-kkk.jpg)
I'm the one with the shotgun.
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You abosolutely ADORE personal attacks, dont' you? How civil....
I'm actually quite unfond of them in general, but this is a level at which you start (I count the first in this thread at page two, though not directed at any member of these forums, you wanted until five-sixths of the way down the same page for that), and I regret to inform you that it is not one at which I can be beaten by experience.
This is of course assuming that I discount the personal attack in your signature. "This forum is run by monkeys" I think it is? I recall discussion on the subject before. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=73865.msg1458855#msg1458855)
Point is, you had to work for this sort of a reaction. It took a consistent pattern of behavior over years before I developed an opinion of you as no longer worth the effort. It wasn't an irreversible process either, you could have pulled out of your tailspin and you still could, honestly, though it would take awhile before the reflexive "oh god, not TrashMan" died down.
I can manage a civil conversation with plenty of people who've derped out pretty hard. Goober and Batts have both managed it at various points. I remember when Polpolion went by the_sizzler and was nearly unbearable. I have immense respect for these people when they're not engaged in acting like ****-flinging monkeys (Polpolion to his credit hasn't shown the slightest indication he's still able to).
It's just you, Trash. Your consistency in being offensive, ignorant, and ignorantly offensive brought you here. Welcome to the bed you have made, enjoy sleeping in it. Or if you don't, do something about it.
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this thread is ****, please lock it
e: have either of you considered that perhaps you take posting in forums a little too seriously
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Agreed. Discussion to be resumed when something interesting happens.