[Knight Templar]

uh.. I highly doubt the US would let them have a stronger airforce than them, ally or not.

No.

[Mr. Vega]

Originally posted by Stealth
i'll tell you what i think's highly amusing (and highly stupid) is those British that blew up one of their own tanks when they thought it was an enemy's.  i mean, with all the high-tech equipment and stuff, you'd think they'd be able to determine which tank's an enemy's and which isn't.

another thing.  that black woman a few days ago that was driving a tank full of soldiers or whatever, and she took a wrong turn, and the next thing she knows they're facing some Iraqi troops.  all of them were taken hostage, and now they're in enemy custody.

not to be racist or anything, the fact she's black has nothing to do with it (!?) but with those GPS things, and all the fancy navigation equipment they have, you'd think they wouldn't take a "wrong turn" and end up faced by the enemy, that's just plain stupid.

there, i've said my bit, i'll let you know if America, Britan, Iraq, Italy, Nigeria, or any other country does something stupid during this war

Which proves that if you make a better idiot-proof machine, someone will make a better idiot.

[wEvil]

we dont need to blow up our own tanks, you blew up more than we did, anyway, lololololol

[Warlock]

Friendly fire: If you watched CNN in the begining, you'll recall the reports on the issue with Turkey not allowing us passage ,...sadly a ship carrying the new Abrahms with the "Anti-friendly fire" crap in it (sorry no clue wtf it's really called) was delayed and that unit is just now getting into the picture.

Sadly it's easier than one would think to target your own side. It's not like Freespace where you have red dots and green dots, you have either Radar (all green dots), NightVision (every damned thing's green, even the static), Thermal Vison (Grayscale like mad) or human vison. Now add in smoke, sandstorms, etc,....plus just how many over there have never seen combat before. Sometimes I'm more impressed that they haven't shot more of our own troops. (Recalls quite a few amusing field exercises)

The 'black chic' that made the wrong turn,.... actually she was a cook (unless another black female has been captured), so she was driving in a support unit,... humvees, Duce and a halves (2.5 ton trucks) 5 Tons trucks, probably a few Hemmets (the funky looking trucks with a resmblance to a crane's driver's cab) none of which have a GPS set up,... it's basically follow the leader.

But hey least my old unit from AK isn't there. The three years I was stationed up there,... the Helio-unit turned into a nice running gag on base.  They dropped so much we started joking that they were trying to hit a moose.

First they threw a set of NVG's at him... and missed.

Next they threw a M-16 at him....while it made a fine lawn dart (yes it was actually found 'arrowed' into the dirt) they still missed.

Again they tried,... this time with a HumVee,....sadly while the HumVee bounced well....the moose was faster.

Lastly they went for broke and tossed an Artillery peice at the moose.

During the process of regaining the cannon and prepping it for shipment to my unti for repair,... soldiers swear they heard a low chuckle in the woods nearby.



Whats worse is it's true

[Stryke 9]

Originally posted by Sandwich
*looks at poll results*

w007!!! I'm The minority!!!!

*looks at postcount*

...a vocal minority, at that!

Yeah, you and Jerry Fallwell would get along great.

And if you get that joke, I'll have to make up my mind whether to be just surprised or depressed that he's that famous.

[CP5670]

Well then here is your problem CP, you can't use math on people(unless you claim to have devloped psychohistory ). People don't often follow logic like you and if you expect to get results from completely objective arguements then you are a fool.

I am not using math here at all, and besides, I am getting results perfectly. I think the reason that you are decrying objectivity is that you cannot write any good arguments yourself.

[wEvil]

why is there never a satisfactory answer...

[Mr. Vega]

Originally posted by CP5670


I am not using math here at all, and besides, I am getting results perfectly. I think the reason that you are decrying objectivity is that you cannot write any good arguments yourself.

I said completely objective arguments. If we removed all objectivity we would get a mass of impartial, ignorant arguments that never end. But if we removed all subjectivity we would get ideas that don’t work when it comes to the human race.

And the US is not going to be the superpower forever. Your arguments work in the present(well, somewhat), but they don’t work when a nation lacks the power it had previously.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
uh.. I highly doubt the US would let them have a stronger airforce than them, ally or not.

No.

believe it or not the US doesn't "allow" everything that goes on in the world.  i'm sure if it was up to the US they wouldn't have "allowed" Russia to have nuclear weapons, they wouldn't have "allowed" two planes to crash into the world trade center, they wouldn't have "allowed" a lot of things to happen.  Remember that Israel's army is one of the most diciplined in the world, if not the most diciplined.  Israelis take the army incredibly seriously, as has already been mentioned, and i have great respect for them because of that.

[CP5670]

I said completely objective arguments. If we removed all objectivity we would get a mass of impartial, ignorant arguments that never end. But if we removed all subjectivity we would get ideas that don’t work when it comes to the human race.

okay, then what was your point before? I already said that completely objective arguments most likely cannot exist, but there is no reason they wouldn't still be ideal in theory.

And the US is not going to be the superpower forever. Your arguments work in the present(well, somewhat), but they don’t work when a nation lacks the power it had previously.

Exactly, which is why I am presenting them right now and not in the future.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Warlock
Friendly fire: If you watched CNN in the begining, you'll recall the reports on the issue with Turkey not allowing us passage ,...sadly a ship carrying the new Abrahms with the "Anti-friendly fire" crap in it (sorry no clue wtf it's really called) was delayed and that unit is just now getting into the picture.

Sadly it's easier than one would think to target your own side. It's not like Freespace where you have red dots and green dots, you have either Radar (all green dots), NightVision (every damned thing's green, even the static), Thermal Vison (Grayscale like mad) or human vison. Now add in smoke, sandstorms, etc,....plus just how many over there have never seen combat before. Sometimes I'm more impressed that they haven't shot more of our own troops. (Recalls quite a few amusing field exercises)

it's understandable if they were in the middle of a battle and a few shells hit a friendly tank, but they weren't fighting anyone!  it's just pathetic

The 'black chic' that made the wrong turn,.... actually she was a cook (unless another black female has been captured), so she was driving in a support unit,... humvees, Duce and a halves (2.5 ton trucks) 5 Tons trucks, probably a few Hemmets (the funky looking trucks with a resmblance to a crane's driver's cab) none of which have a GPS set up,... it's basically follow the leader.

hahahahaha, that's pathetic... first, what the heck is a cook doing leading a whole squadron of artillery!?  shouldn't there be a trained navigator or something?  second, why did she guess where to turn?  if you're in enemy territory, "behind enemy lines", then why on earth would you "guess" where to go?  i'm sure someone on board had a GPS device, and if they did, then whatever happened to the most equipped and well-trained army in the world?  i mean don't get me wrong, i'm all for the US, but this is just pathetic!

[Stealth]

Oh, and Knight_Templar, I may very well be wrong, i just think i remember hearing someone once say that, but i could (or they could) be wrong.

I do know their air force is very disciplined though:

A few statistics reveal the extent of Israel's air superiority: with only 200 fighters, the IAF destroyed 391 enemy planes on the ground and 60 in dogfights. The IAF generated over 3,300 sorties, many times more than the combined Arab air forces. However, the victory was tempered by the loss of 46 Israeli planes and of 24 pilots, who gave their lives in a war that changed the face of the Middle East

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/agency/iaf.htm
http://www.idf.il/english/organization/iaf/iaf4.htm

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Stealth


it's understandable if they were in the middle of a battle and a few shells hit a friendly tank, but they weren't fighting anyone! it's just pathetic

 *shrug* I weas merely commenting on the ease of such a thing,..I honestly haven't heard anything about a tank hitting another tank yet.

Originally posted by Stealth

hahahahaha, that's pathetic... first, what the heck is a cook doing leading a whole squadron of artillery!? shouldn't there be a trained navigator or something? second, why did she guess where to turn? if you're in enemy territory, "behind enemy lines", then why on earth would you "guess" where to go? i'm sure someone on board had a GPS device, and if they did, then whatever happened to the most equipped and well-trained army in the world?  i mean don't get me wrong, i'm all for the US, but this is just pathetic!

Well one I hadn't heard that she was leading anything...much less an artillery convoy. Guessing would be what one has to do if she'd become lost/seperated from the main convoy and didn't 'know' the turn. Then again I'm basing this off personal experience... all I knew for sure was the only black female captured that I heard about was a cook

A note on the GPS,... what we had when I was active (Left service May 99,..so I'm a bit dated) the GPS devices weren't exactly dashboard mounted. Most of which you had to establish a Sat link up and wait on data transfer,....great to get you started,... but not for while driving. Course then there was the PADS system,....Postional Azimuth Determming System,.....mostly used by Artillery,...and the damned thing was a ***** to fix

[Mr Carrot]

Every time General Franks says that the us troops are the best trained you can see Admiral Boyce and the rest of the brits wince and rolleyes.

Best trained my arse.

[Warlock]

heh I'll argue that one later it's getting late here

But keep in mind..... every military has it's **** ups.

Brittish Tank shoots other Brittish Tank
US F-16 bombs US Patriot Site
etc etc

all goes to prove the old saying .... War is merely managed chaos.

[J.F.K.]

Originally posted by Warlock
Sadly it's easier than one would think to target your own side.

Okay so I'm clueless here, whatever happened to all that IFF stuff? I thought that had become standard issue by now.

[Turnsky]

well you see, even 'murphy's law' applies on the battlefield..

[J.F.K.]

Suppose so. Still says something though, the most advanced military in the world still shoots its own troops down...

[Turnsky]

well the more technological it is, the more likely it is to screw up..

why do you think f-15-16's upwards have multiple redundant backup systems onboard..

[J.F.K.]

Gee, I wonder if we'll ever be able to build civvie space ships like FL...