Author Topic: Matrix: Revolutions  (Read 29033 times)

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Offline Stunaep

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Now, that I've seen The Matrix Reloaded again, I'm really awed by how much superior it was to the third part. And how much weaker it was compared to the first part.

Reloaded had a lot more interesting fight scenes, because they had style, and did what the Matrix was famous for, only better. Revolutions did the big-ass robot vs. man-robot battle, we've seen oh so many times in oh so many films before.

Reloaded made the philosophical babble look actually bettter than something pulled from 6th grade literature, plus it actually tied in with the story. Too bad they didn't pay off on that. In Revolutions the philosophy seemed out of place, had the definitive 6th grade feeling to it and was as crappily written as the rest of the dialogue.

Reloaded didn't have any characters shouting "MWAHAHAHA"

Reloaded had the Merovingian actually seem like he was important somehow. Turns out, his not.

Reloaded had the oh-so-cool Twins, that were TOTALLY forgotten about in the second film.

Reloaded had the architect, who explained various ****, that at the time seemed actually relevant.

Which reminds me, if Neo was one of many ones, how did the other Ones defeat their counterpart Smiths. And how did that end in the destruction of Zion, if seemingly the only way to defeat the Smiths was to do what Neo did?
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by an0n
And in regard to the Smith and Neo thing, it's kinda obvious that if Neo is The One™, then it follows that Smith would be The Nothing™.

Neo creates peace, harmony and prosperity for both man and machine-kind. Smith destroys everything.

Basically, the whole personal battle between Smith and Neo equates to a simple true/false statement.


No.... Snith would be The Minus One

1+0 = 1   1+(-1) = 0

 

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Offline Kazan

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it makes sense for the architect to let go of the humans who want out go out - it balances the equasion
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Offline Stealth

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Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
Now, that I've seen The Matrix Reloaded again, I'm really awed by how much superior it was to the third part. And how much weaker it was compared to the first part.

yeah, that's your opinion, and i share the same opinion with you :)


Reloaded didn't have any characters shouting "MWAHAHAHA"
i agree that was possibly the stupidest part of the whole movie

Reloaded had the Merovingian actually seem like he was important somehow. Turns out, his not.
actually he's still one of the most powerful programs out there apparently.  remember, he'd be powerful enough if he controlled the Trainmaster, but in addition to that he controls much, much more... he's powerful, and rich, why do you think Trinity, Morpheus, and Neo went to him in the second movie and went to him again in the third movie.  they wouldn't have gone asking him if he wasn't powerful ;)

Reloaded had the oh-so-cool Twins, that were TOTALLY forgotten about in the second film.
yeah, but the third film had Seraph, who was also cool :D... i did miss the twins though :-/

Reloaded had the architect, who explained various ****, that at the time seemed actually relevant.
the architect confused more people than actually understood :lol: :)

Which reminds me, if Neo was one of many ones, how did the other Ones defeat their counterpart Smiths. And how did that end in the destruction of Zion, if seemingly the only way to defeat the Smiths was to do what Neo did?
because the other Ones didn't have to face the counterpart Smiths... Neo was a "special" One... the architect said it, the Merovingian said it, everyone knew that he was different from the others.  The Smith episode was what led to the peace between mankind and machines, because the machines feared that soon Smith would be powerful enough to beat them... and at that point Neo was the only one that had a chance to beat Smith, which was why the machines used him.

 

Offline Dark_4ce

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So in the end Smith saved Christmas? :p
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Offline übermetroid

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Originally posted by Stealth
That was easy to figure out man!  "French Guy" - Former "One".


:confused: No.....
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Offline TrashMan

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umm, the twins got blown up, after morph slashed the SUV.


Anyway, I've just seen Revolution and I think it makes a lot more sense than part2.  
As you've been saying,
smith+neo=0.
Which is kinda true.
But consider what the oracle and architect say over the last 2 films says.  She says that smith is the opposite to neo (who's there to balance out the imperfection of choice). Although neo is a person, he still has the power[i/] of a program(*) - possibly given to him by a subprogram - as the theory of choice cannot be created by machines alone.
In part 2 we get the fact that the programs that are no longer needed are tried to be deleted - such as the agents going after the keymaker. When smith absorbs neo in part 3, smith no longer has anybody to balance out.  Thus, he is deleted by the machines, and smith dies.

How the matrix is reset, i dont know. The Architect seems rather annoyed at the end that it has. This time, he may have realised that by giving humans more awareness of the choice, that neo is no longer needed - ie the humans who want to leave will be allowed to.  This is the answer to the problem of smith, since without neo smith is obsolete.


Overall, I liked part 3 as much as part 1.  Part 2 made to many questions, but they were answered in part 3.
The Dock fight was really cool. Actually all the stuff out of the matrix was a good laugh anyway.

The smith v neo end fight? Not realistic by this world's terms, but we arent in the matrix.  As programs, smith and neo(^*) can alter the matrix, including its physical properties.  They dont actually fly, they just move themselves in the matrix.
As for you people who ***** about the rain explosion effects, cars being flung about etc, its just the effects on the matrix, and the programs governing rain, cars etc.  Such changes in the basic physics of the matrix is bound to have effects on the programs based on them.

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Offline 01010

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Originally posted by beatspete
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Offline Kamikaze

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****ty. They should have left it at the 1st movie. The only thing that saved that movie was the excellent effects, but even those were often badly used (e.g. near the end with all the shockwaves). Also, trinity's death was so predictable it wasn't even funny. I feel they killed her off pointlessly as well. In fact, I think alot of the story was utterly pointless.
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Offline Flipside

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Hmmmmmm..... I think my main problem with the Matrix thing is that you would have thought a computer programming itself would logically take the optimal route. It's logic. When Bobboau wanted to create Glowing surfaces on ships, he would hardly have created a single pixel that then has to complete a pile of obscure tasks, killing off lots of other pixels at the same time, and then, should the pixel do the right thing at the right time, it will glow? It's just seems an incredibly long winded and wasteful technique?
Would have made a boring film though ;)

 

Offline Dark_4ce

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Hmmm... I just watched it again. But I did something this time that was different. I watched it DIRECTLY after seeing Reloaded. The film instantly works better. Even Reloaded was better after seeing Revolutions because things now made sense, almost in a crazy way as if now you're seeing what the Oracle has seen. You know what will happen, so all these little hints and nuances in the film become clearer. So the 3rd film definitely improved the 2nd film. But watching the 3rd film worked better for me this time around only becuase I saw the second 10 minutes before! These films MUST be watched one after the other. Not the 1st film, but 2 and 3. They're the same movie. And when you watch it like that, then the whole mess has an actual beggining, middle, and end. Its finally cohesive.

So what I was basically saying that the film was empty, still holds true if you watch it as a seperate movie, but when you watch it directly after 2, they merge to form one film. Thus making the experience better IMHO.

I've also now have mixed feelings about the end. At the beggining as you saw, I was totally against it, hated it. But now... I dunno... I understood more. Yeah, its still a Jesus trilogy, that being obvious from the first movie. But it is a rather honest and almost noble ending if you think about it. This guy gets pulled out of his happy life to find out that it was all a lie, he then goes thru hell getting out of it, gets spoon fed this concept that he will save humanity and is the savior, he dies, comes back, starts believing in himself, finally gets together with his new identity only for that to be once again shot down, once again findoing out his 2nd life was nothing but a BS lie. Now he doesen't know who the hell he is, what is happening to him, finding out all he is fighting for is about to get destroyed, he suddenly goes blind, and loses his girl twice. Half of that would have probaly forced a normal guy to put a 9 cal. bullet firmly into their brain. But this guy, in the end a normal guy decides to still do the right thing and go to the heart of his enemy and try to form a peace.

I guess he realised there could never have been a total victory, he even found out that the machines weren't all evil. They were just pushed too far and were forced to do whats necessary in order to survive. Just like humans. So the only way in order to stop this whole thing was to call a truce. Which would never had happened if Smith wouldn't have posed a risk to the machine world.  

BUT. Watching Revolutions again I still think that not all humans were set free from the matrix. Having the conversation still fresh in my mind the oracle asked "What about the others?"
"What others?" The architech asked.
"The ones that want out..."
"Obviously they will be freed."

So its still seems she only talking about a few people that know of the reality of the matrix.

And it seemed like Neo probably didn't die yet. Something happened, because of the way the machines carried his body away. I doubt its because of reverence, but more likely because there was something still going on inside him. As you could see in Neo-Vision he was glowing as the trucked him off.

So its still not a definitive ending to the whole story, but it is in an odd way as well. The war in the end "might" be then over... Ok... I said it. But I mean as in the "hatred and vehemence" between machines and humans. Neo discovered that machines can love and machines discovered that humans are trustworthy and not all bad.

I heavent "seen" the light for this movie, its still not by a long shot better than the first, but you can say that I've seen it in a new light. There is in the end more to this film than what meets the eye. But only because its the 2nd half of Reloaded. It can't be a independent film. I can't stress that enough. Because alone, it sucks bad. But if it would even be edited so that 2 and 3 would be one 4 hour movie, that would be good. All the  philosophical stuff would be talked about in the first half of the film while the 2nd half would in the end reward the viewer and let their minds rest for at bit while Zion is attacked, then again after that they can once again think about stuff when Neo's story continues.

I have to say I was too drastic in my earlier comments perhaps without considering this as only part of a film. So as a the 2nd half of reloaded it was good. I would think it a good idea perhaps if they maybe release reloaded and revolutions as one film, perhaps called REVELATIONS. :D Oh well. All I really want to say is that watching it a second time right after reloaded redeems the movie quite a bit.
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Offline Flipside

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i keep getting visions of Smith exploding, and then this huge writing appearing on a Blue Cloudless sky.....

A Fatal Exception has occured at &FF2B23A......

Ok, I'll stop :)

Flipside :D

 

Offline Stealth

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Quote
Originally posted by ubermetroid


:confused: No.....


it made sense to me.  and a lot of "matrix theories" online said the same thing

 

Offline an0n

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Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
No.... Snith would be The Minus One

1+0 = 1   1+(-1) = 0

.......So that'd be the one and only reason why Smith would be -1. To 'balance the equation', if that line is to be taken in its very most literal sense.

But if Smith represents 0, then it ties into Binary, the whole true-or-false thing of the Matrix, the basic defining qualities of the characters (Neo being the embodiment of a greater purpose and Smith being a representation of someone who believes in nothing) and so-on........
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Offline Stealth

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Quote
Originally posted by an0n

But if Smith represents 0, then it ties into Binary, the whole true-or-false thing of the Matrix, the basic defining qualities of the characters (Neo being the embodiment of a greater purpose and Smith being a representation of someone who believes in nothing) and so-on........


but smith doesn't represent "0", he represents "-1", the opposite side of the equation, to equal out everything.

 

Offline an0n

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Nice reasoning skills there.
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Offline Levyathan

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Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Yeah, its still a Jesus trilogy, that being obvious from the first movie.

Then all the explicit references to Buddhism and other faiths had absolutely no meaning?
Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
I guess he realised there could never have been a total victory

Nope. He realizes that destroying the machines would not be a real victory.
Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
So its still seems she only talking about a few people that know of the reality of the matrix.

That doesn't make sense. Zion would simply not accept peace on these conditions. Deus Ex Machina knows that.

 

Offline übermetroid

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Quote
Originally posted by Stealth


it made sense to me.  and a lot of "matrix theories" online said the same thing


:nervous: What I got out of #2 what that all the other "ones" merged with the sorce.  Also, Merv is an exile, a program gone bad.

But that is what I got out of it.
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