[Gloriano]

If you ask me, they should have tryed all they could have to capture his ass. Then they could interrogate him and what not.

We had his ass back in the '90's - he was released from prision in '96 I think.

1989-1997 IIRC.

anyway I think killing was bad move from Sharon but I don't know I only hope that therewillbe peace in middle-East and israel that all I care

[Sandwich]

Well so far, nothing too out of the ordinary has happened, which is strange, to be honest. Ha'aretz summarises the reactionary events of yesterday to Yassin's killing.

And in response to something someone posted earlier in the thread, about Arabs only understanding use of force, etc... The Arab mindset is quite different from the Western one. There are many books written on the subject, one of which that comes to mind is, surprisingly enough, titled "The Arab Mind". Basically they respect force, despise weakness, etc.

[Rictor]

You can't, nor can anyone, possibly claim to know the mind of every Arab, or even a  majority of them. To claim so would be small-minded and ignorant. This obviously differs from country to country, from sect to sect, but more signifcantly, from person to person. The fact that you seem to think that more than a billion people all share the same mindset is stereotypical to put it very lightly.

That is what the British thought of the Indians, the Americans (and others) of Africans and what to an extent, what Hitler thought of the Jews and Gypsies. Its is convenient excuse to unleash whatever hell you think necesarry, because all they understand it if force.

Please don't assosciate "Western" thinking with everything that is good and just (freedom, moderation, tolerance etc) and thereby imply that anyone who does not fully embrace Western ideals is morally inferior. Its simply not so. There seems to be this great myth that Western ideals are, self evidently, the best, and should be forced down the world's throat. Even people who do not want to use that wording, who would prefer to export Western ideals peacefully, still believe their thinking to be the best, and worthy of establishing around the world. That is, in a word, very intolerant.

[Gank]

No doubt these books were written by non-arabs.

Sandwich, I honestly cant see much difference with what the palestinians are doing today and what  Irgun and Lehi did in the past. Both commit terrorist acts in order to to get their own country. The only real difference I can see is that the Palestinians are actually from the place they're fighting for a country.

[Liberator]

Probably, but that doesn't stop it from being the rule, not the exception.

Let's be honest, do you respect somebody who'll give you anything to keep you from hurting him, or do respect somebody who'd beat the doodad out of you for trying?

[Gank]

Thats why I respect the palestinians Libby, they're fighting for whats been taken from them.

As for the books, if an arab wrote something like that I'd take it seriously. People write books to suit their own points of views you know.

[Janos]

Which makes them totally objective?

[Rictor]

No, which makes them uninformed.

Liberator, if its respect you're after, then the Palestinian deserve as much respect for fighting the Israelis as the Israelis have for fighting the Palestinians. For that matter, bin Laden deserves your utmost respect, becuase he stood up to a power very much bigger than him, and smacked them hard.

But really, this isn't the Mafia. Respect isn't everything. Time to get over the macho chest-beating the realize that you earn someone's respect through kind and just actions, not through violence. Those who advocate peace deserve more respect than those who advocate war. To make war, you need only to inflate your ego and declare your supremacy, but to make peace you must bow your pride and meet your enemy on equal ground.

[Gank]

No. Take the aforementioned The Arab Mind, written by Raphael Patai, a Hungarian Jew. He emigrated to Palestine in 1933 so one would imagine his personal experiences with arabs would be a bit coloured.

Anyways the whole idea of an Arab mind is idiotic, its like saying the French, Italians, Brits and Germans all think the same way.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Gank
Anyways the whole idea of an Arab mind is idiotic, its like saying the French, Italians, Brits and Germans all think the same way.

with a religion as fanatical as theirs and the fact that most arabs belive in said religion its not hard to see why they all "think the same"

[Gank]

Stop spouting out stereotype bull****. Islam is no more fanatical than Christianity, certain sects of it like Wahhibite (sp) could be considered so but overall its a fairly peaceful religion. And they dont all belive the same thing, theres many divisions within Islam much the same as there is in Christianity. If its not hard to see it for you iyts because you know next to nothing about the religion.

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Gank
Thats why I respect the palestinians Libby, they're fighting for whats been taken from them.
 

You forget, the land belonged to the Hebrews(Jews/Israelis) for thousands of years before they were scattered to the winds by the Romans and the Islamic Advance.

Let's not forget that Islam has tenets that proscribe conversion on the end of a sword, the last I knew Christianity had no such tenet.  There have been Men who have perverted Christianity for their own ends, but there is no tenet to force people to convert.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Liberator
You forget, the land belonged to the Hebrews(Jews/Israelis) for thousands of years before they were scattered to the winds by the Romans and the Islamic Advance.

I dont forget Libby, that didnt happen. Jews spread with the Roman empire and islamic conquests, not away from them. The term Sephardic which is given to those jews in general from the middle east comes from Spain, where the Jews travelled with Islam, of their own free accord. They were later thrown out by the Spanish Inquisition with the Muslims. And only 20% of the worlds Jews are acually decended from the original middle eastern jews, the rest are descendants of the Khazars, a central Asian tribe that converted wholesale to Judaism. Sephardic jews account for 16% of Israels population. Even if they were all descended from the middle east, what makes them entitled to a homeland there now. The Franks originally came from Eastern Europe, does this mean the French are entitled to a homeland in Romania?

Let's not forget that Islam has tenets that proscribe conversion on the end of a sword, the last I knew Christianity had no such tenet.  There have been Men who have perverted Christianity for their own ends, but there is no tenet to force people to convert.

Wrong again, Jews had complete religious freedom under Islamic rule. I dont recall any examples of Islamic nations forcing people to convert to Islam, could you please supply some to back yourself up. I can think of several examples of forced conversion by Christians, Jews in Spain were forcibly baptised before the Islamic invasion for example, and those who remained after the reconquest were forced to convert by the Inquisition. There were laws introduced in this country during the 18th and 19th  century which were designed to force people to convert to Protestant.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Gank
Stop spouting out stereotype bull****. Islam is no more fanatical than Christianity, certain sects of it like Wahhibite (sp) could be considered so but overall its a fairly peaceful religion. And they dont all belive the same thing, theres many divisions within Islam much the same as there is in Christianity. If its not hard to see it for you iyts because you know next to nothing about the religion.

Tell me where in the Bible where it says tell Christians "that the end of the world will not come until every Jew is killed by Muslims"
SHow me any documented case of Christians going to Pakistan and blowing themselves up. Show me any documented case of any Christian flying a plane into a building and killikg 3000 people in the proscees. Show me any documented case where a true, bible beliving christian with a good head on them went out with truck bomb with the intent to blow it up at the nearest nightclub.

There aint any.

http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/Freund-2002-08-28.asp
http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0,1703,A%253D152785%2526M%253D150019,00.html
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29838
True Islam is millitant. Anything else is a a compramise(err) to them. It would be the same as true Christian beliving spreading the Gosple is wrong.

[karajorma]

Nicely put Gank

Lets also not forget that the Jews took Israel from the tribes that originally lived there. It's not like they don't base their entire religion on a book that says as much.

Drew you're talking rubbish about true islam being militant. I know lots of muslims who are perfectly tolerant of other religions. I've spent time in pakistan and never had any problem with militants. My entire family on my dads side are muslims and I wasn't even asked to become one.

 As for christianity have a good look at northern ireland for an example of Christian intolerance. Christians can be so intolerant of other religions that they kill other christians of a different sect! Plenty of car bombs in Northern Ireland's history.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Drew

Tell me where in the Bible where it says tell Christians "that the end of the world will not come until every Jew is killed by Muslims"
SHow me any documented case of Christians going to Pakistan and blowing themselves up. Show me any documented case of any Christian flying a plane into a building and killikg 3000 people in the proscees. Show me any documented case where a true, bible beliving christian with a good head on them went out with truck bomb with the intent to blow it up at the nearest nightclub.

There aint any.

http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/Freund-2002-08-28.asp
http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0,1703,A%253D152785%2526M%253D150019,00.html
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29838
True Islam is millitant. Anything else is a a compramise(err) to them. It would be the same as true Christian beliving spreading the Gosple is wrong.

Level-headed muslims don't do that either. You're just reinforced Gank's point by spouting out more stereotypical bull****.

[Gank]

Jesus Drew, back yourself up with some serious examples dont you, An Israeli site, a biblical site and one which actually refutes what your saying. Next time read your sources before you post them.  You want me to take you seriously tell me where in the Koran it says to be militant.

Anyways what your saying is because a few muslims do extreme things all of them are fanatics? Crap. One billion muslims in the world, stop judging the beliefs of them all on the actions of a handful.

As for militant christians:
here
 here
and here, right down the bottom

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Gank
As for militant christians:
here
 here
and here, right down the bottom

You're wasting your time with pieces about Bush. If it weren't gay Drew would probably want to marry him.

Northern Ireland is a better example (even if a little closer to home) since no one can deny that is a case of militant christians killing each other.

[Rictor]

For my money, the greatest crimes of Christianity were commited in the past. The Inquisition, the Crusades, the conquest (and conversion at the end of a sword, Drew) of South America and so forth.

But I do agree that it is utterly stupid to call Islam a militant religion. Over a billion people, a you are going to sit there and pretend like they all think the way.

[Flipside]

Well, I'll always maintain that the louder someone needs to shout about other peoples 'Gods', the less conviction they have in their own, the same way as someone who owns a Ferrari doesn't need to speed