Author Topic: Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)  (Read 11312 times)

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Offline Stealth

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Vega


What's the point of continuing this arguement if you just keep ignoring everything that has been said?


i stated that marriage has always been between a man and a woman, and someone (I think BD) said that it's a "stupid belief"... it's not a belief it's a FACT... i wasn't stating whether it was politically or morally correct, i was just stating it as a fact.

now personally, i don't think gays should be allowed to marry.  but that's my opinion. and I realize that my opinion can be flawed due to not seeing the issue from the perspective of the other party (i.e. gays). so while i do harbor my own opinion, i don't try to enforce it upon other people.  and i'm sure since you're all arguing for constitutional rights, you'll also acknowledge my constitutional right to have my own opinion, and speak it.

 

Offline Stealth

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Quote
Originally posted by jdjtcagle


just in case you guys didn't see it...

I want an answer ;)


You're quoting a Darwin theory... now you're changing subjects, from gay marriage, to creation vs. Darwin.  we're not discussing that in this thread.  so here's your answer:
-- Not everyone believes in evolution.

 

Offline jdjtcagle

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Well it just doesn't make sense to me, that's all...

Fine keep your thread :drevil:
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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Stealth


i stated that marriage has always been between a man and a woman, and someone (I think BD) said that it's a "stupid belief"... it's not a belief it's a FACT... i wasn't stating whether it was politically or morally correct, i was just stating it as a fact.

now personally, i don't think gays should be allowed to marry.  but that's my opinion. and I realize that my opinion can be flawed due to not seeing the issue from the perspective of the other party (i.e. gays). so while i do harbor my own opinion, i don't try to enforce it upon other people.  and i'm sure since you're all arguing for constitutional rights, you'll also acknowledge my constitutional right to have my own opinion, and speak it.


It seems you and I are the only ones who agree.

 

Offline 01010

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor


What I meant was, its all a closed system. For example:

I believe that gays are bad because God says so. How do I know God exists? I don't.

I believe the sky is blue becuase thats what my eyes tell me and what everyone else says. How do I know my eyes aren't decieving me, and that everyone else is not simply a figment of my imagination? I don't.

Even according to Decatres "I think therefore I am" theory, this only includes you, and its very non-specific.

but now we're getting into extisential matters and thats a discussion for another day.


Existentialism is I think, the closest to how I operate on a daily basis which works for me, care to brief me on the rough tenets of it? I live how I live, I don't care for belief structures or anything like that.

But the God existing statement verifies what I'm trying to say, I'm not saying that all thoughts and theories are stupid, just beliefs that are unsubstantiated and unfounded (which is most of them as that is there very nature, a belief requires no evidence) are not usually anything worth taking with more than a grain of salt. Maybe I'm still missing your point though.

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Offline Kamikaze

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Stealth


i stated that marriage has always been between a man and a woman


Yes, but marriage has been between brother + sister too, which was one of the things you mentioned (because it's supposed to be wrong or somesuch) as support of your silly slippery slope argument. Marriage was not always in a form that's considered acceptable by your religion. Anyway, whatever it's been in the past, that's no reason not to change it.

TinCan: Please stop it with the slippery slope arguments. They are extremely annoying when you're trying to make for a sensible debate.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2004, 03:30:43 pm by 179 »
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Offline Stealth

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Quote
Originally posted by Stealth
i stated that marriage has always been between a man and a woman


Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze

Yes, but marriage has been between brother + sister too



isn't that still between a man and a woman?  i dunno. i always assumed brother = male; sister = female. ;)

 

Offline Ghostavo

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Quote
Originally posted by Tin Can
Ya know, I never, ever came into believing that you are "born gay"


This raises a point... are people "born straight" and/or "born gay" or do they become those happy f****** everybody hears about? ( :lol: )
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Offline BlackDove

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http://satireonline.com/articles/20040207_man_marries_dog.html

The options of marriage itself are endless.

Stating that "marriage has always been between a man and a woman" is like saying "blacks have always been inferior to whites".

Both of these were true at one point in time, and both of these are retarded and invalid as hell.

 

Offline Blaise Russel

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Quote
Fact is, we're overcrowding the planet. If indeed being homosexual is a trait given at birth, then I'd assume the gene pool is telling us that enough's enough as far as procreating goes, and that we're exceeding the limit.


I doubt that men's testes and women's ovaries are ordering themselves so the differently-orientated get priority over the straight little gametes.

"Hey! Gays first."
"Thanks darling, that's simply fabulous!"

...no.

Quote
Existentialism is I think, the closest to how I operate on a daily basis which works for me, care to brief me on the rough tenets of it? I live how I live, I don't care for belief structures or anything like that.


Existentialism is the concept that this world is it, and that there is no other 'supernatural' world containing (the orthodox perception of) God, ghosts, spirits, souls, demons, the ethereal planes, astral bodies and all that stuff. Therefore, according to the existentialist, those things do not exist.

Transcendentalism is the opposite belief - that there is or are other layers of existence which contain God, ghosts, demons, etc. Religions are generally transcendental in nature. Science is, I suppose, existential, due to the unverifiable nature of the transcendental, although I'm given to understand that there are scientists who do believe in the transcendental.

Quote
But the God existing statement verifies what I'm trying to say, I'm not saying that all thoughts and theories are stupid, just beliefs that are unsubstantiated and unfounded (which is most of them as that is there very nature, a belief requires no evidence) are not usually anything worth taking with more than a grain of salt. Maybe I'm still missing your point though.


A problem with the 'BELIEFS ARE WRONG' school is that of reality - namely, are we truly here and are we who we really are? Thing is, you can't be certain that this world is what it seems to us or if there really even is a world out there. This in turn throws many other concepts like 'truth' and 'knowledge' and 'I' into Limbo, leaving us up the ol' creek. Oh, and no, Descartes isn't an answer. "Cogito, ergo sum?" What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Regardless, chances are you believe in a reality as much as some people believe in a God. Unless, of course, you don't actually *believe* this world is real - rather you're just coasting along because it's not as if you could do anything about it if it was false, could you?

Sometimes you really do have to ask what the definition of 'is' is.






I'm also somewhat disappointed that nobody has bothered to actually explain why all these sacred cows are so very sacred. Disappointed, and very, very irritated, as it is always annoying to be confronted with the eternal blank wall of "Damnit, marriage is between a Man and a Woman!" Alas, nobody has actually bothered to explain matters - methinks they lack the answers themselves.

 

Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo
This raises a point... are people "born straight" and/or "born gay" or do they become those happy f****** everybody hears about? ( :lol: )


There is a fair bit of evidence for a so called gay gene which predisposes someone towards homosexuality. Whether all gay people have it is up for debate.
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Offline Kazan

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.::Tin Can::.
Ya know, I never, ever came into believing that you are "born gay"


go learn


Quote
Stealth
what he's saying is that regardless of the many "forms" it takes... it always has been a man and a woman. that's been the definition of marriage for as long as it's been around.


You can say this, but that doesn't make it true

many societies have one-to-one, one-to-several, and several-to-several structures


It has been confirmed Catholic church sanctified [atleast one] homosexual marriage in the 3rd centry (the couple are SAINTS)

your assertion is _NOT_ fact
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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan


go learn


You can say this, but that doesn't make it true

many societies have one-to-one, one-to-several, and several-to-several structures


It has been confirmed Catholic church sanctified [atleast one] homosexual marriage in the 3rd centry (the couple are SAINTS)

your assertion is _NOT_ fact


Then teach me.

Honestly Kazaan, we are not making idiotic exceptions here. Just because "well there are special societies" doesnt mean that its the way everyone deemed it.

If you went to any country in the world and wanted to marry a man and a woman, in most cases you probably wouldnt recieve much question cept "Well when do we do it? And how much will you pay us?"

Go to any other country and ask to marry a man and man or woman and woman, you will most likely have some raised eyebrows. Now, you keep bringing up the same crap about "Well this and THIS long ago did THIS, and THAT affects todays society as a whole!"

Shut up. For once admit that marriage considered today, yesterday, 200 years ago, 1000 years ago, biblical times, it was STILL a man and woman, so stop making lame-ass excuses about a point in time that was different.

"I know that at this point in time they did ONE homo marriage! Therefor, that means I am right about everything, and it is no longer the standard."

 

Offline Rictor

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Tin Can, I must agree. Marriage has traditionally been, and is mostly still considered to be man-woman. Now, this is not denying that homosexual relations didn't exist, but I think that was more of a sex thing, at least in reference to Greece, perhaps the most prominent coluture that was openly gay (well, bi). You life-long partner type person was still a woman (if you were a man), but that didn't exclude fooling around on the side with guys or, if you were influential enough to pull it off, boys.

 

Offline Kamikaze

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Well, regardless of what marriage has been, I don't think anybody has answered the question "Why does marriage have to keep being that way?" yet.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2004, 12:34:33 am by 179 »
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Offline Ford Prefect

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Ah yes,  ancient Greece. Arguably the most intellectually rich culture ever to appear on the face of the Earth, and the origin of what we call "Western Civilization." I always thought that sort of threw a curve ball to those who preach the immorality of homosexuality.

I don't understand the notion that homosexuality is a choice. Considering all the bigotry that homosexuals have to put up with, why in all hell would anyone choose to go through that? Besides, sexual attraction is an extremely strong instinct; if we haven't curbed hatred, I find it hard to believe that we've arrived at the point where we can choose who we want to screw.

Besides, Cole Porter was gay. Enough said.
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Offline Vertigo1

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Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Honestly Kazaan, we are not making idiotic exceptions here. Just because "well there are special societies" doesnt mean that its the way everyone deemed it.


The same thing can apply to the other side saying it only applies to one man and one woman. :rolleyes:

Quote
If you went to any country in the world and wanted to marry a man and a woman, in most cases you probably wouldnt recieve much question cept "Well when do we do it? And how much will you pay us?"

Go to any other country and ask to marry a man and man or woman and woman, you will most likely have some raised eyebrows.


And somehow you would know this because....?  I challenge you to fly around the world and actually do that, and report back with your findings.  Otherwise, you have absolutely no chance of backing that claim up.

Quote
Now, you keep bringing up the same crap about "Well this and THIS long ago did THIS, and THAT affects todays society as a whole!"


So....using the past as evidence is wrong?  Guess what, since you flat out worship the damn bible, you can throw that right out as well.  Hell, might as well throw out every single history textbook while you're at it since you consider it non-applicable. :rolleyes:

Quote
Shut up. For once admit that marriage considered today, yesterday, 200 years ago, 1000 years ago, biblical times, it was STILL a man and woman, so stop making lame-ass excuses about a point in time that was different.

"I know that at this point in time they did ONE homo marriage! Therefor, that means I am right about everything, and it is no longer the standard."


PROVE IT!  Whip out your little time machine and your video camera and back up that claim!  Oh wait, we can't use the past as proof according to you so I guess you're just ****ed there. :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: August 06, 2004, 12:54:24 am by 215 »
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Offline jdjtcagle

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Tin Can:

For the love of all things holy, stop it!!!
Your not making one single point and making your self look bad
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Offline Bobboau

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
I have never gotten a satisfactory responce to the question; why do you give a damn what other people do with each other?

you know, I live virtualy within sight of St.Louis MO, all the local media is MO, I didn't hear one damned thing about this before it happened, I'm sort of wondering if it was sneaked in, but the southern 1/3rd of MO is some of the hardest cord of the Bible belt, so maybe that has something to do with it.
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Offline Ford Prefect

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"Morals are like teeth. The more decayed they are, the more it hurts to touch them." -George Bernard Shaw
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