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Offline Stealth

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan

"father" - fails relative-test
"mother" - fail relative-test
"Brother" - fails relative-test
"nephew" - fails relative-test
"cousin" - fails relative-test


i'm sorry but please tell me where in the definition of "marriage" or in the constitution of the United States it says i can't marry a relative!?

I demand to be able to marry my mother, since it's my constitutional right

:wtf: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

Offline Vertigo1

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Stealth


but once again, i'm all for gay rights!!!!!!!, just not official gay marriages.


And why the hell not?  Why exactly should gays be singled out for not having the right to marry?  Because some stupid ass book says so?
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Offline Rictor

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
what about polygamy?
And why is there an exclusion of family members? Thats a bit bigoted, don't you think?

Once again, I'm all for gay marriage, but I also a ****-disturber, so..

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Stealth

marriage isn't a "symbolic thing".  it's been around since the beginning of mankind.  a man, and a woman (Note: not a man, and a man, or a woman and a woman) express their love for each other by vowing to stay together etc. etc. etc.


That's simply not true. Polygamous and in rarer cases Polyandrous relationships were the norm in many cultures (and still are in some), not your view of traditional marriage. In fact, there's biological evidence that man has evolved mechanisms for both monogamous and polygamous relationships.

Quote
Originally posted by Stealth


i'm completely on your side, by the way, but i thought i'd bring it out that it's been proven time and time again that gays are not born gay.  it's mental, they may have gotten molested as a child, etc.  one of my best friends was always cool, he had a fiance and was going to get married and everything.  then suddenly he turned gay and moved to canada.  i was like wtf.  his parents did some research, and as a child his uncle had molested him.  99.99% of the time it's not a "birth" problem


Again, not true. It happens among animals as well you know. It's got to do with the inflation of a certain part of the brain IIRC, which means it could probably be cured...in theory anyway.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2004, 11:38:53 pm by 302 »
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Offline Kazan

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
i have nothing against polygamy if it's sane-sane-consentual

as for exclusion of family members - i think you need to look up the definition of "bigoted" -- closely genetically related members are prohibited from producting offspring due to the relatively high probability of health problems of their offspring -- thus protecting the quality of life


-------
[edit]Good point Black Wolf -- i forgot to mention that homosexuality is NOT a purely homo sapiens phenomenon -- and the other species dont attempt to ostracise their members who are homosexual... i guess in that reguard we are NOT the more advanced species
« Last Edit: August 04, 2004, 11:42:49 pm by 30 »
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Offline JR2000Z

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
i am saying that by denying other peoples human rights they are being bigots


First off, marriage is not a human right. It's a legal document that is tied between church and state.

I think that the only way to work this out is for gay marriage itself to be a religion. So like Baptist would be Gay Batptist, or Gay Prodistant, etc.
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Offline Stealth

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
as for exclusion of family members - i think you need to look up the definition of "bigoted" -- closely genetically related members are prohibited from producting offspring due to the relatively high probability of health problems of their offspring -- thus protecting the quality of life


i'm sorry, but regardless... it should be my right to marry my sister or wife, don't you agree? :rolleyes:  i mean just because it's "prohibited", does that mean it's right? :rolleyes:  i think that's wrong

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

let gay people live together and enjoy every right that a regular person has.  but to let them get married:  that's just wrong.  it actually makes a mockery of marriage.

as i said, at this rate, whatever's coming next ...

 

Offline Kamikaze

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
You're still continuing your slippery slope argument Stealth. A slippery slope argument does not justify any viewpoint by itself.

How does homosexual marriage "mock" marriage? Who's marriage is it mocking anyway? Depending on culture and religion marriage takes on many forms. I see no problem in having yet another form of marriage. Anyhow I think homosexual couples can have as much affection for each other as heterosexual couples can, so it's not some kind of travestial mockery.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2004, 01:01:29 am by 179 »
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Offline Mr. Vega

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
If homosexual marriage mocks marriage, then it deserves to be mocked.
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Offline karajorma

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
It's got to be said that gay people are their own worst enemy in their continued use of the word marriage.

I'm all for gay marriage but if they'd dropped the term, called it a civil union and pressed for it to be recognised with all the legal rights that a hetrosexual marriage has they'd have already gotten it.

I'm all shouting for change and trying to get more human rights for everyone but sometimes it's better to stay under the radar on these things and achieve change by a gradual advancement rather than trying to rush at the enemy and putting him on the defensive.
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Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
here's something to read


Quote
Do You, Pole-Smoker, take this Pole-Smoker...

So the Massachusetts' Supreme Judicial Court upheld a ruling today that gays should have the right to marry in the state of Massachusetts. This will of course lead to many a heated moments as the beer swilling Catholics in downtown Boston get liquored up and decide to voice their opinions to those who may strike them as light in the loafers, I'm sure. I had actually intended on doing a blurb on this subject about a month ago and it slipped my mind, until I received this email last week...


[QUOTE  [
I live in Indiana, and in the past week or so i have been hearing a lot of talk on the radio about same sex marragies becoming legal. Just hearing that makes my stomach drop. Could you lift my spirits for me by doing a little old fasion gay bashing? Well not really bash them, that could cause a lot of trouble, just tease them a little. It would put a smile on my face.
Thanks a lot!
long time viewer-
Mike  



Now a few years ago I used to live with a girl who had not only a spectacular pair of breasts, but a gay sister as well. I dunno if the gay sister had great boobs too because, well, she was gay. But anyway, this sister lived in California with her -- of what's the politically correct term -- life partner? Yeah, so these two lesbians have been with each other for a like eleven years and they were as committed to each other as any heterosexual couple I know. But since they obviously can't have any children without some help, they decided one of them gets artificially inseminated. They took a look at their jobs, and decided the one who had the lesser paying job would be the one to carry the baby, since her taking time off from work wouldn't be as financially straining. Nine months later, poof they've got a kid.

The first thing that struck me as a little unfair is only my girlfriend's sister -- the one who actually carried the baby -- could be listed on the birth certificate as the parent. Granted even if they could they'd either have to play paper-scissors-rock to see who gets listed as the father, but still it struck me as a little unfair that only one of them was legally allowed to be recognized as a parent. I mean hey, ya wait around for that long putting up with world class *****iness beyond belief, you're gonna want some public recognition, right?

The next quirk they came across was health insurance. As it so happened, the birth mother's health insurance coverage was not as robust as the her partner's insurance. You know how that goes, better job and all that, right? Well the baby's medical coverage could not be claimed against this better policy for obvious reasons -- she wasn't legally the child's parent. So this ended up costing them a lot of money out of pocket for medical expenses, and there were even some areas where the child didn't get the same level of care as she could have if she had been covered under the better insurance policy. Again, it seemed unfair not only to the parents financially, but to the baby in regards to her health care.

And suppose for the sake of argument, that while the three of them were driving home from the hospital, there was a car accident and the birth mom was rendered brain dead. If it were a husband and wife deal, the surviving spouse would have legal control over medical treatment (or ceasing of it) for their injured partner, plus have no problem securing sole custody of the baby. But in this case, the surviving lezbo would have no legal recourse despite having just as much time and energy invested as a male partner would.

All these issues because same sex marriages are currently illegal. Okay. So let me think for a minute, that if they were legal, how would they effect my life. Would I have to pay more taxes? No. Would married gay people get a special check out line at the supermarket to get through line faster than me? No. Do they get their own special lane to avoid traffic jams? No. Do they get cheaper car insurance? No. Free car? No. Free socks? No.

So my question would be... what the **** do I care if gay people want to be married?

They're not fighting to have two guys dressed in wedding gowns, mascara and five o'clock shadows to prance down the aisle of your local church. They're not fighting for the right to **** on the crosstown bus. They're not fighting to have Hers-and-Hers bathrooms at the mall. All the benefits and rights they're fighting for, wouldn't impact my life one bit if they did get them, so why the hell would I oppose it? It's like going out and saying you oppose blue socks. You can't see em anyway, so who the **** cares?

The only people that could possibly have a valid argument against anti-same sex marriages are the religious groups. "Homosexuality is an abomination!" they say. Well, okay, that's your take on it that's cool. Fair enough. But then there's two things to consider when you enter that realm, too. One, where the hell were you when priests were treating eight year old children like **** toys? I didn't hear you say too much then, in fact you kind of looked at your shoes, mumbled something about out of court settlements, and then wandered off into the crowds. I don't hear you protest when atheists get married. I don't hear you protest when atheists get married in a church. I don't hear you protest when religious people get married on a cruise ship snot hanging drunk after grabbing the nearest vacationer to serve as their witness. So please, if you're going to get all high and ****ing mighty, at least have the courtesy to do it evenly across the board.

And secondly, this situation my friend, is a perfect example of the REAL reason behind the separation of Church and State. It's not just a springboard for some loudmouthed asshole to use and get his name in the paper when he wants to talk about the Pledge of Allegiance, but instead a genuine reason why Judge Judy needs to leave her Bible/Koran/Torah/Whatever at home.

What if I created a religion where marriage was illegal altogether, would the government have to rule all marriages null and void? What if all the 43,000 people in the United Kingdom who checked their religion as "Jedi" all decided they're never going to get laid and decided they could marry their dog? Would governments then have to recognize those marriages? The answer is no in both cases, because the whole purpose of the separation of Church and State is Uncle Sam can't pick and choose what religious movements they're going to acknowledge and which they aren't. Churchgoers have every right in the world to voice their opinions in a public forum, but when it comes time to making laws it's time to have a nice tall glass of Shut-The-****-Up. The only thing Uncle Sam can do is to make sure everyone, man, woman, black, white, tall, short, cute, ugly, straight or gay, gets a fair shake.[/quote]

from http://www.ehowa.com/mythoughts/gaymarriage.shtml
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Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf
Marriage is a declaration of a union to create and raise children in a secure enviroment.


wrong.

marriage is, and has been, many things through the ages:

a way to secure power
a way to secure wealth
a way to secure rights
a way to secure peace
a way to express love
etc.

but it has NEVER EVER been about the children only. Never.
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Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Stealth
let gay people live together and enjoy every right that a regular person has.  but to let them get married:  that's just wrong.  it actually makes a mockery of marriage.
 


gays marrying because they LOVE each other, or because they want to secure the same rights heterosexuals have is no mockery of marriage.
Casino-owned marriage chapels in Vegas where two random drunks can get married for ****s and giggles, THAT's a mockery of marriage!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2004, 07:12:03 am by 169 »
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Offline karajorma

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Nice article Ivan.

That's exactly what I mean by giving gay people the same rights that hetrosexual people have. I've heard of several cases where a gay couple have had a child, the legal guardian has died and then the family who had in fact ostracised their own child for being gay automatically got the child because they were related by blood and the partner who had actually raised the child for years wasn't.
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Offline Blaise Russel

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
kerpwnage


I agree. :yes: :yes: :yes:

 
Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Let me put this as simple as possible for everyone here.

Marriage was made for the matrimony between a man and a woman. They come together, live together until they die, hopefully fostering a child inbetween there while getting old, and having their kids have grandkids, etc. Marriage was something people you want to be parents and/or love each other for the rest of your days.

Gay marriage however is made so that for some reason you think you can legal **** or say "well we love each other and we're gay!"

Listen, I dont remember there being a law that said you couldnt **** outside of marriage. In fact you could live with each other until whenever. But in the end, think of the children.

"Gay" is just wrong. Its wrong, its immoral, it goes against what we as humans did in order to reproduce. Silly faggot, dicks are for chicks!

People ask me "well what if in another dimension, being gay was right, and being straight was considered wrong or immoral"

What the hell kind of question is that? Do you think we are going to be in another dimension any time soon? Do you think this particular thing WOULD change if I was in another dimension? Besides, if being gay WAS the standard, I would probably be gay too. But its not, being straight is the way we were created, it is the way things should stay, and its the way things should end.

It seems today people will always ***** about "freedom" and "feelings"!

 

Offline aldo_14

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
not, it's wrong to you.

50-150 years ago (depending on country), interracial marriage was wrong, and black people were considered as if they were a 'subspecies' of humanity.... I think people tried to find an excuse for this in the bible, too.

It's not (homosexuality) a lifestyle i would choose, but no-one has the right to force their beliefs or lifestyle on others.  The only excpetion is in the case where such beliefs are dangerous to society as  a whole or cruel & degrading  (read paedophilia, incest, bestiality).  Being gay does not fall under that arguement and, as such, there is no moral arguement against it which is not dictated by a religious basis.  And you can;t force that type of an argument on a  supposed multi-faith society.

 

Offline Blaise Russel

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Marriage was made for the matrimony between a man and a woman.


Why?

Quote
Marriage was something people you want to be parents and/or love each other for the rest of your days.


Why?

Quote
But in the end, think of the children.


Why?

Quote
"Gay" is just wrong.


Why?

Quote
Its wrong, its immoral, it goes against what we as humans did in order to reproduce.


Why?

Quote
But its not, being straight is the way we were created, it is the way things should stay, and its the way things should end.


Why?

Quote
It seems today people will always ***** about "freedom" and "feelings"!


Why?

 

Offline aldo_14

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by Blaise Russel

Why?


Well put.

 

Offline Kazan

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Disgusting bigots! (Missouri Approve State SSMBA)
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Let me put this as simple as possible for everyone here.


welcome to Tin Can demostrates ignorance 101


Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Marriage was made for the matrimony between a man and a woman.


wrong, furthermore you cannot use a deriviative of a word in the definition in the definition of it's baseword

additionally you are ignoring the history of marriage

Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
They come together, live together until they die, hopefully fostering a child inbetween there while getting old, and having their kids have grandkids, etc. Marriage was something people you want to be parents


That reason was invented recently by your chronies


Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
and/or love each other for the rest of your days.


This is also a recent change - but atleast it's a real change -- PEOPLE LOVE EACH OTHER


Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Gay marriage however is made so that for some reason you think you can legal **** or say "well we love each other and we're gay!"


So is heterosexual marriage then -- BTW it's not illegal to have intercourse with someone you're not married to -- so there went your argument



Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Listen, I dont remember there being a law that said you couldnt **** outside of marriage. In fact you could live with each other until whenever. But in the end, think of the children.


kidna goes in with the last thing

Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
"Gay" is just wrong. Its wrong, its immoral,



That was a amazing feat of logic [/sarcasm]

First -- 99.999999999999% of them are born that way (even if they repress it for part of their life) -- so saying it's "wrong" is like saying being black is "wrong"

Furthermore only your RELIGION says it's wrong, and there are no non-authoritarian morality systems that agree with your statement (however plenty of authoritarian repressive moral systems)

to try and deprive them of their rights for these reasons (The only reasons you have) is to violate the seperation of church and state -- to actually attack your own rightst that protect you from people like me getting power and mandatting the destruction of religion (i have more respect for the constitution than that)

Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
it goes against what we as humans did in order to reproduce.


marriage isn't about procreation - althought procreation is often involved

Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Silly faggot, dicks are for chicks!.


that was blindingly immature

Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
People ask me "well what if in another dimension, being gay was right, and being straight was considered wrong or immoral"


that's a moronic question, and nobody worth arguing with would have asked you that -- for starters they're making appeals to "right and wrong" which is authoritarian moral thinking -- THINK FOR YOUR BLOODY SELVES ON YOUR MORALITY - BE LOGICAL (yes morals _can_ be logical... of relatively few humans ever reach that stage of moral maturation -- {psychology thing})

Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
What the hell kind of question is that?


On you constructed out of your own limited thinking to be able to rip it to shreds -- the limitation of your thinking shows through in it and you do not fool me



Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Do you think we are going to be in another dimension any time soon? Do you think this particular thing WOULD change if I was in another dimension? Besides, if being gay WAS the standard, I would probably be gay too. But its not,


pointless: see above

Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
being straight is the way we were created, it is the way things should stay, and its the way things should end.


except we were NOT created and there is DIRECT evidence to the contrary - so you are delusional: you cannot be trusted to make decisions for yourself, and therefore you ESPECIALLY cannot be trusted to make decisions for others


Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
It seems today people will always ***** about "freedom" and "feelings"!


you're denying people their freedom

and 'feelings' should keep their ass out of government


You know what - GET MARRIAGE OUT OF GOVERNMENT -- it's a violation of the seperation of church and state -- make the government part "civil unions" and make no restriction on them

get your "marriage" back into your churches who have corrupted it.



SIMPLE STATISTICS:
Highest divorce rates: Souther Baptists, followed by Catholics (>50%)
Lowest Divorce rates: ATHEISTS, AGNOSTICS (<25%)

there is a DIRECT correlation between how religious someone is and how likely they are to divorce (hint: more religious, more divorce) --- so there went your "sanctity of marriage" ---- allowing gays to marry would _LOWER_ the divorce rate
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