[Jal-18]

Originally posted by dan87uk
Just a thought though, has anybody remembered that you need the presence of a star or significant gravitational presence in a system in order to make a 'Intra-System' jump?..... if this is the case....then how are you able to do one of these jumps in a nebula that is the remnant of a supernova?

You can see a sun in the background of the nebula missions.

[Charismatic]

Subspace, in my opinion, cant be created or destroyed.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by High Max
This might sound stupid but is it possible that the Shivans are the creators of subspace? Without the Shivans, subspace wouldn't have ever existed? Can subspace be created or was it there since the beginning of time?

Subspace is usually presented as being a natural phenomenon that has always been there but that is simply the way the GTVA are looking at it. It is quite possible that the shivans created subspace and it would explain why they are so pissed off at everyone else for using it. Maybe we're not paying the toll fees or something

Taking this a little further. The ancients were subspace experts with knowledge of subspace far in advance of the GTVA. However they had already travelled to nearby star systems before the discovery of subspace. I've always taken this as a nice example of different races advancing in science at different rates from humans and vasudans but I'm not going to deny the possibility that the Ancients didn't discover subspace earlier because it simply didn't exist

[dan87uk]

yes i know the sun was in the background on the nebula missions, but thats just because it was a default thing for the level, and as i said, how is that possible if the nebula is a supernova remnant?

as for karajorma's theory, it sounds interesting, the ancients were subspace genius's compared to vasudans and terrans, evidence is the knossos gate's. but like some1 said, they may have developed maths differently to us, and the ancients were more of a spiritual race, much like the vasudans but without the scientific qualities or needs. However when they stumbled upon subspace, perhaps there math qualities improved aswell as there military and it began to phase out there more spiritual qualties? again much like the vasudans.

[Noise]

Shivan Manifesto.  Read it and be enlightened.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Jal-18


You can see a sun in the background of the nebula missions.

Yeah, but FRED automatically places a white sun by default if there isn't already a light source in the mission.

[karajorma]

Besides Capella is really a multiple star system. You'd still see stars in the Capellan nebula

[Jal-18]

That doesn't disqualify that there is a sun in the nebula.

And as to why there would be a sun of this is the remains of a supernova:  it could be a protostar forming from the nebula gasses.  That's how all stars are formed: from the remnants of other stars.

[karajorma]

You missed my point Jal. I was saying that a star is not only possible  but a very likely occurence.

As for a protostar forming that's also a reasonable possibility but AFAIK you wouldn't get one of those forming after only 8000 years which would mean that the shivans didn't create the nebula when the ancients were around to see it.

[Kie99]

Well in FS2 Capella only has one sun

[Charismatic]

IF the shivans have a manifesto, we should get one to overroit theirs. We should claim supspace and kick them out, and make them pay tolls, just like Illionis $2.50 +, or a I-Pass.
Hehehe..

[Jal-18]

Karajorma: sorry about that, I was typing up my post when you made yours.  My memory's foggy, but where does it say the Ancients watched the Shivans create the nebula?  And who says the nebula is Shivan?

High Max presents a more probable scenario actually, as it would also allow the Ancients to observe the Shivans blowing up the star and creating the nebula.

[Ghostavo]

Originally posted by High Max


If you play Warzone, the command briefing says that the nebula beyond Regulus is much what Capella would look like today, if we were able to return there. A nebula many lightyears in diameter with ONLY ITS CORE INTACT. Storywise, that sun in the nebula could be the core that is still intact.

Except that in the endgame cutscene there isn't anything left of the star, and supernovas don't leave cores behind, what's left is either a white dwarf, neutron star or pulsar, or black hole...

[dan87uk]

hmmm....perhaps the nebula beyond gamma draconis used to be in fact the home system of the ancients? this would explain why the knossos was located there? and the other knossoss devices, the ancients said they could not stop the shivans yes? and during this being said it shows a picture of a sun yes? perhaps it is a clip of their own sun before it was detroyed by the shivans, its the ancients cutscene where they explain how they have the knowledge but not the means to destroy the shivans.

could be a little far fecthed but at a long shot? and Altair was just as far as they could make it while the survivors were running from the shivans

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Jal-18
Karajorma: sorry about that, I was typing up my post when you made yours.  My memory's foggy, but where does it say the Ancients watched the Shivans create the nebula?  And who says the nebula is Shivan?

There's no canon evidence on the age of the nebula. I was mearly pointing out that if that was a proto-star we could rule out the theory that the Shivans created the nebula to do the same thing to the ancients that they did to Capella.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by karajorma


There's no canon evidence on the age of the nebula. I was mearly pointing out that if that was a proto-star we could rule out the theory that the Shivans created the nebula to do the same thing to the ancients that they did to Capella.

The closest to evidence is the statement in Bosches monologue wondering if an ancient Pharoah on earth would have witnessed the supernova.

IIRC, there was a supernova - the earliest recorded I think - witnessed and recorded in Egypt in 1066 (in the Lupus nebula).  But, that would still mean it was much older than 1,000 years, due to the time it took light to travel to earth.

If it was that nova, of course; no evidence that :V: even based it on a real recorded supernova.

EDIT; I think 1066 is too late, though; I got confused about the constellation being recorded by Ptolmy.

[Ghostavo]

Originally posted by dan87uk
hmmm....perhaps the nebula beyond gamma draconis used to be in fact the home system of the ancients? this would explain why the knossos was located there? and the other knossoss devices, the ancients said they could not stop the shivans yes? and during this being said it shows a picture of a sun yes? perhaps it is a clip of their own sun before it was detroyed by the shivans, its the ancients cutscene where they explain how they have the knowledge but not the means to destroy the shivans.

could be a little far fecthed but at a long shot? and Altair was just as far as they could make it while the survivors were running from the shivans

If the shivans did indeed create the nebula beyond gamma draconis, it would have to have been created before the knossos, because if a supernova can vaporise any vessel, it can certainly at least blow the crap out of a gate.

[dan87uk]

 good point.... i stand corrected  

so that would mean the ancients discovered the nebula when it was still more volatile in theory? right? so why the hell would they buil 2 knossos devices in it!......hmmm so many loopholes:dizzy:

[aldo_14]

Here is an interesting concept; what if the Ancients built the gates first of all?

(wild speculation alert)

 i.e. they built this network of Knossos' (like Stargates) to travel the stars, and then stumbled across a network of existing, stable nodes?  And because of this 'trespass'. the Shivans came and attacked them, first of all in GTVA space (the ruins in Altair).. so the Ancients pulled back more and more, shutting down the gates as they left.  But the Shivans still followed, because they could rebuild the node.  

Perhaps the node the GD knossos was already stable before the knossos was reactivated, and it was the attempt to reactivate that node which woke up the Shivans?

[dan87uk]

again, the point of the supernova would make this theory void, the knowssos devices in the nebula would have been vapourised....unless they were designed to withstand infinity degrees lol