Author Topic: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?  (Read 32076 times)

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Offline iamzack

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Nonetheless, I'd trust the kid. This culture of paranoia has gotten a bit out of control - school bombings are incredibly rare, and assuming that a kid with a gadget is a bomber before anything else just seems absurd.

Exactly. What the hell is wrong with people that an 11 year old with a gatorade bottle with wires in it is immediately a threat? Why do we instantly think 'bomb?' It's unnecessary and only feeds into back into this culture of "terrorists are everywhere and they want to eat your babies."
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Offline Blue Lion

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Nonetheless, I'd trust the kid. This culture of paranoia has gotten a bit out of control - school bombings are incredibly rare, and assuming that a kid with a gadget is a bomber before anything else just seems absurd.

Exactly. What the hell is wrong with people that an 11 year old with a gatorade bottle with wires in it is immediately a threat? Why do we instantly think 'bomb?' It's unnecessary and only feeds into back into this culture of "terrorists are everywhere and they want to eat your babies."

Because kids attack schools, sometimes with bombs. There is no smoke and mirror to it. Since kids attack schools, sometimes with bombs, the schools need plans on how to deal with things that could be bombs.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Yes, but you're far more likely to have students killed while crossing the street in front of the school, or by suffocating in the cafeteria, or by having an asthma attack during gym class.

 

Offline Blue Lion

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Yes, but you're far more likely to have students killed while crossing the street in front of the school, or by suffocating in the cafeteria, or by having an asthma attack during gym class.

And the schools have plans for those too. But that doesn't exclude plans on far more serious things like bombs and shootings. Any student could be disturbed enough to attack the school, and perhaps using a bomb. So schools can't assume it won't happen.

My workplace does the exact same thing. I'm sure it's the same elsewhere, people do not take potential bombs lightly. And to me, making sure they test it is worth more than making sure the kid isn't embarrassed. That's just an easy call for me.

  

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
So you think that, if a student is seen with an unknown electronic device, the correct response is to:

Call in police and arson teams.
Speak to the student.
After speaking with the student for an hour, THEN evacuate the school, THEN call in a robot to examine the device.
Determine the device harmless.
Search the student's house.

That doesn't seem to go awry somewhere around the first half of step 3 to you? Where the trained experts spoke to the student for an hour, then went ahead to the rest of the steps?

Any student can be disturbed enough to attack the school with a bomb, sure. The odds of it are just so microscopic that all this theater basically does more harm than good.

 

Offline Blue Lion

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
So you think that, if a student is seen with an unknown electronic device, the correct response is to:

Call in police and arson teams.
Speak to the student.
After speaking with the student for an hour, THEN evacuate the school, THEN call in a robot to examine the device.
Determine the device harmless.
Search the student's house.

That doesn't seem to go awry somewhere around the first half of step 3 to you? Where the trained experts spoke to the student for an hour, then went ahead to the rest of the steps?

Any student can be disturbed enough to attack the school with a bomb, sure. The odds of it are just so microscopic that all this theater basically does more harm than good.

If the person who sees it believes it could be an explosive device, then yes. This all hinges of if the person looking at it thinks it's a bomb.

If a kid has a device and you don't know what it is and you ask him. The kid tells you and it's whatever. Unless you think it's a bomb, the kid goes on his way.

It is not: Unknown object = bomb

If someone sees an object and thinks "Hey that could be a bomb", that's pretty much the part I'm talking about.

It's not the "I don't know what that is" part that calls in the cops, it's the "but it kinda looks like a bomb" part.

 
Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
So here's the deal.  The VP saw a strange electronic device, so he called the police because he thought it might be a bomb.  After that, he and the police talked to the kid for a while.  For some reason, they weren't reassured by the child that it wasn't a bomb, so they ran a bunch of tests on it.  The device was determined to be harmless.  After that they searched the house for anything suspicious.

I can't see why the bomb squad needed to be called, because the child was probably scared senseless with some potentially hostile police questioning him about a strange electronic device.  I doubt he said anything like "I have a bomb!", because if he did that then he would probably be arrested for making a bomb threat, and something like that would have been mentioned in the article in any case.  So chances are the child informed the police that it was a simple motion detector, and I doubt the police needed to MAST and X-ray an electronic device that isn't connected to anything that looks even slightly explosive.  And after the device was decided to be completely harmless, there was no reason for the child's house to be searched.  This seems like the police and fire department completely overreacted.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
So you think that, if a student is seen with an unknown electronic device, the correct response is to:

Call in police and arson teams.
Speak to the student.
After speaking with the student for an hour, THEN evacuate the school, THEN call in a robot to examine the device.
Determine the device harmless.
Search the student's house.

That doesn't seem to go awry somewhere around the first half of step 3 to you? Where the trained experts spoke to the student for an hour, then went ahead to the rest of the steps?

Any student can be disturbed enough to attack the school with a bomb, sure. The odds of it are just so microscopic that all this theater basically does more harm than good.

If the person who sees it believes it could be an explosive device, then yes. This all hinges of if the person looking at it thinks it's a bomb.

If a kid has a device and you don't know what it is and you ask him. The kid tells you and it's whatever. Unless you think it's a bomb, the kid goes on his way.

It is not: Unknown object = bomb

If someone sees an object and thinks "Hey that could be a bomb", that's pretty much the part I'm talking about.

It's not the "I don't know what that is" part that calls in the cops, it's the "but it kinda looks like a bomb" part.

You misread my post.

The step I was criticizing was step 3, where the arson and fire teams talked to the kid for a long time and then decided to go crazy.

They should have had no problem figuring out it wasn't a bomb.

So yeah, I agree with spardason.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Well it looks like everyone'ish reached an agreement :)
 
That makes a nice change.
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Offline BloodEagle

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Well it looks like everyone'ish reached an agreement :)
 
That makes a nice change.

Wait for it....  :P

 

Offline Ghostavo

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Well it looks like everyone'ish reached an agreement :)
 
That makes a nice change.

Not it doesn't. And that means we disagree!
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Offline Blue Lion

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Well it looks like everyone'ish reached an agreement :)
 
That makes a nice change.

I can't disagree with it because I wasn't talking about the police response. I was saying it was in the best interests to call the police despite the odds of it being a bomb. It's a topic shift and there is nowhere to go with it.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Jeez...you'd expect this sort of panic to happen in Boston instead.  Though if it had happened there, the National Guard probably would have been called in. :p

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Quote
Are you reading the same list I am? Since 1999 (Columbine) there have been 4 attacks that involved bombs and 4 foiled attacks that had bombs. But I think you're being nitpicky over the point. Homemade bombs are a method used by kids in school attacks.


Ok, maybe you should point them out. I did a word search for the word "bomb" and the vast majority of the incidents that involve bombs ALSO involved guns. This kid didn't have a gun, so those incidents that were just involving bombs are the only ones that apply in this situation. Even then, most of those involved more than one bomb. Also I didn't include those that didn't occur in the US because quite frankly Iraq != US.
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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
There was a slew of bomb threats in my area a couple of years ago. Now they zip-tie our lockers shut during testing week, and enforce airport-level security at the entrances, just so kids don't go around talking about how they have bombs, and thus disrupting state testing (Which was the reason for the ton of threats in the first place)
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Bomb threat != a kid bringing an actual bomb to school.


I remember back in middle school there was one or two times that the entire school was evac'ed because of credible bomb threats, and the police with their bomb sniffing dogs came in to search the building. Didn't find anything of course. Threats are many, actual bombings are few.
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Replace and press any key

 

Offline Blue Lion

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Columbine

19-year-old Alvaro Rafael Castillo opened fire at Orange High School with a rifle and shotgun, shooting eight times and wounding two students. Officers ordered him to stop firing and he immediately complied. Castillo killed his father with a firearm before driving to school in a van. In the van police officers found ammunition, pipe bombs, and other weapons. Castillo will be charged with first-degree murder in the death of his father while charges for the school shooting are pending.

A 13-year-old student fired a cheap imitation AK-47 inside his middle school after confronting two others students and his principal. The student was wearing a mask and had pointed the gun at the principal, the assistant superintendent and two students. After firing a shot into the ceiling and breaking a water pipe, the student's gun jammed when he attempted to fire additional shots. The student was then confronted by police officers and taken into custody. Officers also found a note in the student's backpack indicating that he had placed an explosive in the school (which has 700 students). No one was injured in the incident. (even though it doesn't mention if there was a bomb or not)

Two pipe bombs went off in a hallway of Hillsdale High School, in San Mateo, California, during the beginning of first period classes.[288] Nobody was injured from the explosions.[289] Alex Youshock, a 17-year-old former student of the school, was held by staff members until police arrived and was found with eight other pipe bombs, a two-foot-long sword, and a chainsaw concealed in a guitar case. Youshock was subsequently arrested and charged as an adult with eight felonies.[290][291]

De Anza College student Al DeGuzman planned a Columbine style school shooting at the school. An employee at a Longs Drugs store developed pictures of DeGuzman posing with his guns and homemade bombs. She and a coworker called police. DeGuzman was arrested when he returned for his photos. Police found Deguzman's bedroom stacked from top to bottom with sophisticated handmade bombs and a map of De Anza College, marked with locations where bombs would be placed. [9] In October, 2002, DeGuzman was sentenced to seven years in state prison.[408] He later committed suicide by hanging himself in his jail cell.

Jeremy Getman, 18, planned a school attack at Southside High School but it was foiled after students told a teacher that he was carrying weapons. He carried 14 pipe bombs, three smaller bombs, a propane tank, a sawed-off shotgun, and a .22 caliber pistol into the school by a duffel bag and also a book bag full of ammunition. On December 17, 2001, he was sentenced to 8 1/2 years.

17-year-old Joshua Magee was arrested in the parking lot of Malcolm High School after a school staff member, who saw the youth drinking liquor and putting on a black overcoat, called police. A search of Magee's car produced a bolt-action rifle, 20 bombs and a note stating the he wanted to injure everyone at the school except for three friends. Magee, to whom school paid close attention after it was reported to faculty that he was experimenting with explosives at home, was charged with attempted murder.

A 15-year-old boy from Monroe was already on juvenile probation when he broke down crying, police said Tuesday night, as he admitted he stockpiled bottles of gasoline, makeshift fuses, a torch, a 2-foot machete and three tanks of propane in a plot to attack former fellow students at Monroe-Woodbury High School.

Just because it involves a gun doesn't mean if you just see something that could be a bomb you don't do the same thing.

"Oh my god is that a bomb? Wait, I don't see a gun. He must be cool."

It's not bomb safety only if the guy has a gun too.

Maybe the guns are somewhere else. Maybe they're setting up the bomb now and getting the guns. Maybe it's an empty bomb and he's showing his friends before they fill it.

Just because the kid isn't waving an AK-47 around doesn't mean it's still can't be a credible threat.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
That post does not make sense to me.

Furthermore, it feels really, really paranoid.

 

Offline Blue Lion

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
That post does not make sense to me.

Furthermore, it feels really, really paranoid.

Just because you don't SEE a gun doesn't mean there isn't one. And even if there isn't, you don't discount any bomb threats.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Homebuilt motion detector = bomb?
Sure, but that doesn't connect to the original scenario at play here for me.

Nothing you're saying is necessarily untrue, but it does not connect to a kid showing off his motion detector.