Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 541984 times)

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Offline Topgun

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
If there are persistent, wide-spread rumors about some ultra-top-secret organization, I'd say there was a better than 50% chance it exists.

the bilderberg group.
 :nervous:

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
If there are persistent, wide-spread rumors about some ultra-top-secret organization, I'd say there was a better than 50% chance it exists.

the bilderberg group.
 :nervous:
Who?

My point is, if pretty much everyone in Sol has heard multiple, persistent rumors of the Fedayeen, chances are they exist.  Baseless rumors tend to lose widespread distribution after a while, and end up confined to the guys with tinfoil hats and end-of-the-world stashes of weapons and supplies in the desert.  And Nuke.
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Offline Topgun

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
If there are persistent, wide-spread rumors about some ultra-top-secret organization, I'd say there was a better than 50% chance it exists.

the bilderberg group.
 :nervous:
Who?

My point is, if pretty much everyone in Sol has heard multiple, persistent rumors of the Fedayeen, chances are they exist.  Baseless rumors tend to lose widespread distribution after a while, and end up confined to the guys with tinfoil hats and end-of-the-world stashes of weapons and supplies in the desert.  And Nuke.

Its an organization that many, many, conspiracy theorists believe are secretly influencing many of the world's governments.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Its an organization that many, many, conspiracy theorists believe are secretly influencing many of the world's governments.

And it does exist, it's just there's nothing cool and Illumanti-like and government-controlling about it.
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Offline Topgun

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Its an organization that many, many, conspiracy theorists believe are secretly influencing many of the world's governments.

And it does exist, it's just there's nothing cool and Illumanti-like and government-controlling about it.
That we have proof of....

 

Offline -Sara-

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
ignorantia beatitudo est. ;)
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Offline -Norbert-

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Quote
If there are persistent, wide-spread rumors about some ultra-top-secret organization, I'd say there was a better than 50% chance it exists.
I just try to imagine the GTVA explaining this as the reason for the war to their citizens.
"Dear citizens.
We just reopened the Sol-Delta Serpentis jumpnode and our spyprobes have intercepted messages that hint at the existance of a secret black-ops group called the Fedayeen.
We don't know who they really are or what they want or even if they really exist, but since the rumors of their existance are so widespread there is a 50% chance that they really do exist.
Because of that, and some other minor reasons - like our continued survival in the face of the shivan threat or our current socio-political system being on the brink of collapse - we decided to go to war with them.
But the main reason for the war, as stated before, is the possible existance of a black-ops group we know nothing about and aren't even sure exists"

Don't get me wrong, what you say is often right (though not always), but maybe the people of the UEF just enjoy conspiracy theories more than we do now, because they had no real and tangible conflics and conspiracies to occupy their attention (except the one against the GEF) before the GTVA came in guns blazing.

Either way a 50% chance of them even existing can't be enough for it to be the GTVAs main reason for the war. So either is isn't the main reason at all, or the tevs have more information than they should have been able to get.
But since noone outside of the Fedayeen and the Elders even knows for sure they exist, I can only imagine three theories:
1) The GEFs fed the GTVA some made up "information" about the Fedayeen which the GTVA believed (extremely unlikely, since there was supposed to be no contact what-so-ever before the decition to go to war - besides, why should the GTVA believe terrorists in the first place).
2) A turncoat within the Fedayeen who detected the GTVAs spying and decided to join them.
3) The Fedayeen deliberately leaked information to the GTVA to further some shadowy plan of theirs. This might be the Vishnans testing Humanty, but not wanting their involvment being detectable, so they use their Human agents (and then go silent, either as part of the test, or because Humanity failed it).

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
If you ask me it sounds much more reasonable a war declaration than "THERE..........ARE..........FOUR.... WMDS" that no one actually believes.
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I'm certain the GTVA knows about the Fedayeen. They probably just don't know what the Fedayeen can do. Granted, the way Bei Wen Jian puts it at the end of Sunglare makes me feel that the Fedayeen aren't probably as invincibly boring as the GTVA's SOC, but they must be pretty formidable if they are kept at near the same level of secrecy as the SOC.
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Offline -Norbert-

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Nearly the same level of secrecy?
Is there a single person in the whole GTVA who doubts the existance of the SOC? While they do covert missions, they are an official branch of the GTVA.

The Fedayeen on the other hand are known only to themselfs and the Elders.
I'd say the Fedayeen are even more secretive than the SOC or GTI/GTVI with the exception of the guys from the Hades rebellion.

  

Offline Nissan

  • 26
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I'm certain the GTVA knows about the Fedayeen. They probably just don't know what the Fedayeen can do.
This is what I'm curious about. Regardless of how the GTVA found out about the Fedayeen, we know that they knew of the Fedayeen's existence before the war began. It's just strange that the UEF's elite paramilitary force, of all things, is listed as a "primary" reason for going to war, since the GTVA's main stated reason is that the UEF is incapable of defending itself from the Shivans.

What if the "you're doomed when the Shivans show up" thing is just a front put on by the GTVA to cover up something bigger?
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
What if the "you're doomed when the Shivans show up" thing is just a front put on by the GTVA to cover up something bigger?

Laurence Fishburne!?

 

Offline Deadly in a Shadow

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion

Space-Orkz?
A retrofitted Colossus?
Shivans on a plane?


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Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
GTVA is probably just trying to cover up the fact that they are incompetent enough to think half a dozen Raynors and some Meson Bombs will be enough to stop the next Shivan Incursion.

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
why does the GTVA need a reason beyond "Earth has fallen under the influence of a bunch of radical non-elected idealouges forcing their own agenda on the populace, even going as far as to psychologically brainwash them, and we need to liberate/free them from that tyranny" to sell the war to GTVA citizens?  It's true on all counts, just heavily slanted to a particular viewpoint.

The actual driving factors for the war, imminent collapse of the GTVA economy etc..., don't need to be said.

 

Offline Jellyfish

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Because they are happy, brainwashed or not. And some of them have guns, and they see an army marching in guns blazing; preaching 'freedom', yes, but guns blazing anyway.
"A weapon is only as powerful as its wielder. With this weapon, you'll be but an annoyance, which would greatly dishonor it. With this weapon, I can change history. With me, this weapon can shape the universe."

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Because they are happy, brainwashed or not. And some of them have guns, and they see an army marching in guns blazing; preaching 'freedom', yes, but guns blazing anyway.

last I checked the GTVA citizens are definitely not happy and are not in contact with UEF citizens, everything they get is through high command. 


 

Offline -Sara-

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
This tells me exactly why the Terrans went to war.  They didn't want to leave the future of Humanity(and possibly the Vasudans) in the hands of people who will rearrange all of society all the way down to individual psychological conditioning(this part is particularly distasteful) to further their ends, especially when said designs are spawned by visions and portents.  

Now you're catchin' on.  ;7

Of course I doubt you'd be totally against Ubuntu. They're very free market, almost Objectivist in their focus on individual excellence and development, and big science-technology-and-exploration guys.

Also the 'individual psychological conditioning' is not much different from what any society does, just a bit more understood.
But how would the GTVA know that?
Not even UEF citizens know for sure wether the Fedayeen really exist. And even if they knew, they still wouldn't know why they were founded.
So how can the GTVA know? All the GTVA knew before the invasion was, what was readily available on the internet (or whatever succeded it) and what they could evasdrop with their spy drones.
And somehow I doubt the Fedyeen were able to keep their existance a secret by being sloppy with communications.
So how can they be a main reason for the GTVA to go to war, if the GTVA had no way of knowing anything other than rumors and hear-say?

Back on this, I think the Feyadeen (and possibly the elders) are pulling the ropes there. They may have an actual reason for having this war, something to do with the secret project going on. And so the Feyadeen probably lets the GTVA know only as much as the Feyadeen wants the GTVA to know: enough to provoke an attempted blitzkrieg invasion by the GTVA in Sol. Apparantly something is so important that it is worth the number of casualties and not unlikely the loss of Earth itself. If that is so, the Feyadeen  and the elders seem to invest their trust in the people of Sol, believing whatever social or religious transformation Sol went through has reached a point where the Solarians are ready to face the contents of the Pandora's Box that opened. The big question mark for me is what their greater plan is, but it seems to dictate such a different fate to humankind that it scared the hell out of the GTVA, possible related to the mentioned Contingency MORPHEUS:

Quote
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« Last Edit: September 29, 2010, 05:14:17 pm by -Sara- »
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Offline -Norbert-

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I was speculating pretty much that point as well in the post I wrote after the one you quoted  ;)
I didn't elaborate much on it, just tossed in the idea, though I think if this is the case, the Vishnans are likely to have a hand (or whatever they have) in it.

 

Offline -Sara-

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Whoops! Skimmed only over the rest of that page when people started going off-topic about today's conspiracy theories. :P
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