Author Topic: FS1 and FS2 (Split from  (Read 6208 times)

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Offline jr2

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
Going back to the retail bit, I think running the Silent Threat installer reverts FS back to 1.04 for some odd reason, even if you've already patched it to 1.06.  You'd need to apply the patch a second time in order to get things straightened out.  (Ah, the pre-Steam joys of ridiculous patch dependencies...)

QFT.  Reason being, ST requires 1.04+, and will patch the game to ensure it is compatible.  Unfortunately, this downgrades you if you had anything newer than 1.04  Re-apply the 1.06 (and then 1.06EAX if you want it) patch(es) after ST to solve the problem.

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
Wow, was not expecting a tech thread to derail in such an engaging way. And to those questioning my graphical tastes, it is a mix of nostalgia and canon. For example, the Cain/Lilith class cruisers in their upgraded forms look nothing like how they originally did. I just can't accept that, it irks me. The same goes with the Typhon and many of the freighters.

I admit, some ships did get a bad ass upgrade though.

I suppose I could argue at length about those particular ships (they're actually among my favorite HTLs, and I think they really bring out what the ship would have looked like if [V] had had a bigger polygon budget), but that's your preference.

But I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here about what FSOpen is. FSO is the new engine, with tons of awesome new features, but you don't need to use them. The MediaVPs are the shiny new ships and effects that take advantage of FSO's features, and this seems to be what you're objecting to. You absolutely do not need the MediaVPs to run FSO- one of the core design patterns of FSO is that it must run correctly with the original FS2 data.

 

Offline Fury

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
But I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here about what FSOpen is. FSO is the new engine, with tons of awesome new features, but you don't need to use them. The MediaVPs are the shiny new ships and effects that take advantage of FSO's features, and this seems to be what you're objecting to. You absolutely do not need the MediaVPs to run FSO- one of the core design patterns of FSO is that it must run correctly with the original FS2 data.
This is exactly what I was thinking of posting. I would also like to add that FSPort is almost exactly the same as original retail FS1. Only if you also use FSPort-Mediavps you get new, upgraded ships.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
In addition, some of the ships that have received hi-poly reinterpretations have had multiple models created for them over the years, with only one particular set making it into the MediaVPs.  If you ever find that you prefer one upgrade over another, it's a fairly-straightforward matter to set those models up as their own separate mod.

 

Offline soilder198

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
I haven't played the FS1 mediavps much (and I'm assuming many of you haven't either), but I don't have any problems with the design path the dev team of FSO chose to go with (in regards to FS2). I like the new models, the new graphics and everything. Makes the game much more epic than V could've hoped it to be.

However, as a side note, I do remember the plot of FS1 fairly well, and yes it was typical, but how else can an interstellar war play out? It's always the overwhelming bad guys, the inferior yet ingenious humans, insert clever ploy here, then victory.

In fact, most video games revolving around conflict follow, to some extent, that generalized example. Atleast in FS1's case, it had awesome gameplay and a gorgeous soundtrack to compliment what could be considered a stale storyline...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 04:16:32 pm by soilder198 »

 
Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
Well FS2 certainly didn't stick to the formula.
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Offline soilder198

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
Well FS2 certainly didn't stick to the formula.

Mate, it's a very generalized formula. It doesn't have to be strictly followed.

Freespace 2 did adhere to the formula somewhat when referring to the Shivans. Big alien race reappears, not an immediate threat however, become an unstoppable immediate threat, clever use of jump node destruction by inferior humans and vasudans, victory.

Sure, there was the whole NTF fiasco, but as I said, the formula is generalized and doesn't have to be followed.

 
Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
Wow, was not expecting a tech thread to derail in such an engaging way. And to those questioning my graphical tastes, it is a mix of nostalgia and canon. For example, the Cain/Lilith class cruisers in their upgraded forms look nothing like how they originally did. I just can't accept that, it irks me. The same goes with the Typhon and many of the freighters.

I admit, some ships did get a bad ass upgrade though.

I suppose I could argue at length about those particular ships (they're actually among my favorite HTLs, and I think they really bring out what the ship would have looked like if [V] had had a bigger polygon budget), but that's your preference.

But I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here about what FSOpen is. FSO is the new engine, with tons of awesome new features, but you don't need to use them. The MediaVPs are the shiny new ships and effects that take advantage of FSO's features, and this seems to be what you're objecting to. You absolutely do not need the MediaVPs to run FSO- one of the core design patterns of FSO is that it must run correctly with the original FS2 data.

Oh I see. The only time I've seen FSO showcased was via a let's play on youtube. The LPer never specified what media-VPs he/she was running other than the upgraded cut scenes.

 
Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
Wow, was not expecting a tech thread to derail in such an engaging way. And to those questioning my graphical tastes, it is a mix of nostalgia and canon. For example, the Cain/Lilith class cruisers in their upgraded forms look nothing like how they originally did. I just can't accept that, it irks me. The same goes with the Typhon and many of the freighters.

I admit, some ships did get a bad ass upgrade though.

I suppose I could argue at length about those particular ships (they're actually among my favorite HTLs, and I think they really bring out what the ship would have looked like if [V] had had a bigger polygon budget), but that's your preference.

But I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here about what FSOpen is. FSO is the new engine, with tons of awesome new features, but you don't need to use them. The MediaVPs are the shiny new ships and effects that take advantage of FSO's features, and this seems to be what you're objecting to. You absolutely do not need the MediaVPs to run FSO- one of the core design patterns of FSO is that it must run correctly with the original FS2 data.

Oh I see. The only time I've seen FSO showcased was via a let's play on youtube. The LPer never specified what media-VPs he/she was running other than the upgraded cut scenes.

Wow, somehow I didn't finish what I was typing.

Anyway, the LPer never did specify what media-VPs they were running but it was clear that all the ships in the game were upgraded models either from FS 2 or some kind of community production here on HL.

 
Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
oh for -- look if battuta's not going to link it i will, it's The Best Summary of why fs2 is different and better: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=84744.msg1692461#msg1692461
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
I've always felt that FS1 had a (slightly) better storyline, but FS2 had (much) better storytelling. Between the squadron aspect, the SOC loops, & better mission design, the storyline feels more alive. Throw in small aspects like the training missions being computer sims vs. live training and issuing weapons when you are ready for them, not when they are all developed, you get a better platform for telling a story.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
As per the post Phantom linked (which I'm quite proud of) I think FS1's storyline is a slightly overdone cheeseburger and FS2's is a genuine literary work. It's one of the only games I've ever played that I think tells an absolutely vital story, regardless of medium: a rebuke against the anthropocentric vanity that nests at the very heart of science fiction.

I'd ship FreeSpace 2 and Blindsight in some kind of weird omnibus.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
Yep. Had Freespace 1 been the only "Freespace game", I wouldn't be here now.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
FS1's story is the story that the player wanted to be told, more or less in a simple non-literary way - it appeals to and affirms the typical and deeply-ingrained notions, being anthropocentric we're-the-good-guys-and-we-win sort of way. Something we're comfortable with. Not that there's anything wrong with this - it's fun, it's a great game, but not an intellectually stimulating literary work.

FS2 on the other hand is much "deeper" and on top of that the story really is told in a better way. However, initially it doesn't sit quite as well since it kind of upsets what we (and by 'we' I mean the average human) want to believe. So we go 'it doesn't make sense' 'suddenly, supernova!' etc. until we look at it closer and think about it and all the pieces fall into place together. This depth isn't necessary for a great game but it sure is cool when it's there.

Mhm it's great (and now to think of it, I could probably draw parallels in this sense to BP, and why I initially liked AoA a lot more is probably something to do with how much simpler and easier to simply accept it is, much like how many people like FS1 for the same reasons...)
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Offline Wobble73

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
I kind of see your point there Droid, in FS1, we win! in FS2 we lose, in an epic fashion! But I find that is the greater story, it almost ends with a cliffhanger that we all want to see ended, yet don't because if we had a resolution, we wouldn't have all these fan made campaigns giving us their idea of how it would have ended/continued!
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Offline InsaneBaron

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
I would agree that, all things taken into account, FS2 is a greater literary work. FS1 does, however, have some things in its favor. Really, it comes down to what kind of story appeals to the reader. FS1 is simple, and, like AV8R mentioned, plays very strongly on emotions of fear, dread, heroism and triumph. FS2 is a darker, more complex story that raises the threat level of the Shivans... to the point where we ask, "In the long run, do we have any hope?" If the series had stopped at FS1, I think that we would never have seen so many fan campaigns, for the simple reason that FS1 satisfies itself, while FS2 leaves us hanging, wondering what will happen next. Truth to tell, very few campaigns actually answer the big question: "Is there hope?". Because an answer epic enough to meet the question seems impossible to deliver.

One reason Derelict is so fun is that it's halfway in between. Yes, the Shivans are back. Still mysterious, still unstoppable. Yet you still get the chance, at least for now, to win, to feel that victory, to see the Nyarlathotep explode. We might be ants to them, but we still bite. Is there hope? We don't know. But for now we can celebrate.

In fact, I would argue that one of the strengths of Blue Planet is that it plays on the strengths of both original games and improves them with top-notch writing. Age of Aquarius is a very FS1-like story but with much better writing: "We CAN win, there IS hope. The Shivans are powerful, but there IS a chance we can get past their threat, if we can meet the challenge." War in Heaven, especially Tenebra, proceeds to cast doubt on that conclusion: "Is there really hope?" The Vishnans, who seemed to be offering us a chance to prove ourselves worthy, begin to look much less friendly. This is part of the reason that, despite a few things that bugged me about BP, I'm a fan and I'm eager to see it finished. Because If AoA mirrors FS1, and WiH resembles FS2, the third Blue Planet just might replace the conclusion we lost when Volition went under.
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Offline swashmebuckle

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
I don't think AoA had a very FS1-like story at all IIRC. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but to me it seemed to ask whether we were worthy to stand alongside the gods, and then kind of definitively answered that (at least as we are now) we aren't even worthy to stand alongside each other. It's not about putting aside our differences to work towards a greater goal, it's about there being something fundamentally wrong with us, or at least incompatible with the way the universe works. All the stuff in WiH about shedding your identity along with your illusions is natural extrapolation from AoA IMO.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
One of the things that's always struck me in these arguments is that people who make them forget that FS1 actually managed to be considerably darker at times than FS2 ever does.

In FS1 there is a point where nobody has a plan, where it's full panic mode WE ****ED NOW. It passes, but it is there.

That point is never reached in FS2. You always have hope. Somebody always has a plan that can save humanity. Some of these plans fail, but there are backups for them.

You never actually fall as low in FS2 to as you do in FS1. A similar discussion can be made about the ending and the very real possibility prior to Silent Threat that Earth was all that's left in a sea of Shivans.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
FS1 never manages to be dark so much as comic. It's full of odd malapropisms that undermine the tangibility of the setting and prevent it from really evoking emotion.

 
Re: FS1 and FS2 (Split from
Quick input here, FS3 is essentially a noodle incident now, I feel that anything, while extremely well made/done/voice acted/etc. won't really live up to what we're expecting.

Back to the topic at hand however, I never really got into FS1 like I did with FS2, I think it was the 2-D way the story felt to me, it was all fairly standard story telling, sure it may have been good but it's essentially a tale that's been told a thousand times, each one different but the same nonetheless. The comparison to Star Wars is completely valid, characters from across the galaxy came together to fight the big bad and triumphed (This gets muddled in books and comics but for the sake of things leave comparison at the movies). You can also compare it F:NV in a way, while technically there really is no big bad in the main questline (Exclude the DLC's) yet there is still the element of coming together through unity to fight off someone (even more so when fighting for the NCR or an independent New Vegas) however there, in F:NV, there was still the element of choice, choices that could affect where the story went, sometimes they may change the way certain events happen, for better or worse, in FS1 there was no element as such, it was just telling a story, sure taking out that shivan fighter a few missions into the game may have netted you a positive review from command yet that still doesn't change much, same with the vasudan ace from mission 2, they didn't affect the story outside of the Command briefings.