Author Topic: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.  (Read 43422 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
How about the fact that the Avenger was according to stats flat-out the best weapon and if you took anything else you were less effective?

Quoting for truth. The only other primary I use in FS1 is the Banshee, and that's only when I'm sure I'll be facing lots of shivan fighters, otherwise you better go for the Avenger, as the Prom's pitiful shield damage, lower fire rate and higher energy usage makes it underwhelming in comparison.

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
I always thought that the Avenger had a problem with shield damage (hence pairing it with Flail). The Banshee was always my favorite, with Prom being a close second (it made a wonderful capship killer). But then, you're mostly fighting the Shivans in FS1, with only a few mission that have Vasudans as primary enemies. Flying a Herc, I always used a Banshee in the lower slot (for killing fighters) and Prom S in the 4-gun bank (for maximum anti-capship DPS). I suppose the Avenger might've been superior against the Vasudan fighters.
Make and play (on insane) a test mission and put it on bomber turrets and enemy fighters.  Try to score kills with your primaries.
Bomber turrets I can agree with. As I said, they don't fire the same way as primaries do. I would expect them to be trouble. Having them mounted on a fighter with low agility, however (or a bomber), could make them manageable. Alternatively, an agile but flimsy fighter that could be easily taken out with missiles (Morning Star doesn't interfere with your turning ability, IIRC). I really wonder how it worked in multiplayer, where it somehow managed to be commonplace, despite the supposed "anti-fun" effect.

 

Offline BirdofPrey

  • 28
  • Help! I see GIMP in my sleep
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
The Avenger has the highest average damage which makes it good for everything, and also boasts a good volume of fire.
The Prometheus has higher DPS vs hull, but with the lower shield damage, it will take longer to destroy a fully shielded target which is compounded by the fact Shivans have low hull HP but high shield HP.  Banshee has the highest shield damage of any weapon that still does hull damage, and matches nicely with the shield/hull HP split Shivans have, but the high energy requirement makes sustained fire difficult and only two fighters (Hercules and Valkyrie) can actually mount it.

Theoretically, using a Flail, Banshee or S-Breaker to take down shields and then swapping to a Prometheus would let you take down targets most quickly, but that's not so easy in practice against the smaller, more maneuverable fighters, and if you also need to take a disruptor, isn't an option.  That tends to leave the Avenger as the most useful primary followed by the Banshee when taken alone.
The Great War ended 30 years ago.
Our elders tell stories of a glorious civilization; of people with myths of humanity everlasting, who hurled themselves into the void of space with no fear.

In testing: Radar Icons

 
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
The Avenger also sounds so nice when firing.  :D

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
The Avenger also sounds so nice when firing.  :D
No FS1 weapon sounds nice when firing.  FS1 had awful sound design.

tss tss tss tss tss tss


I always thought that the Avenger had a problem with shield damage (hence pairing it with Flail). The Banshee was always my favorite, with Prom being a close second (it made a wonderful capship killer). But then, you're mostly fighting the Shivans in FS1, with only a few mission that have Vasudans as primary enemies. Flying a Herc, I always used a Banshee in the lower slot (for killing fighters) and Prom S in the 4-gun bank (for maximum anti-capship DPS). I suppose the Avenger might've been superior against the Vasudan fighters.
  The Avenger does more shield damage than the Prometheus and nearly identical hull damage.  It also has a lower power draw, longer range, and higher velocity.  It's better.  There is absolutely no reason in FS1 to take any weapon other than the Avenger and maybe the Banshee.


Quote
Bomber turrets I can agree with. As I said, they don't fire the same way as primaries do. I would expect them to be trouble. Having them mounted on a fighter with low agility, however (or a bomber), could make them manageable. Alternatively, an agile but flimsy fighter that could be easily taken out with missiles (Morning Star doesn't interfere with your turning ability, IIRC). I really wonder how it worked in multiplayer, where it somehow managed to be commonplace, despite the supposed "anti-fun" effect.
Or, even better, you could just turn it into a weapon that doesn't suck the fun from combat when you stick it on enemies.  You're devoting a lot of effort into thinking up way to keep this weapon's gimmick and I don't understand why.  It's not even an interesting gimmick.

And who gives a **** about FS2 multiplayer?  The issues with FS2's netcode means the meta there is nowhere near the same as it is in singleplayer, and no one is designing multiplayer mods.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 09:14:43 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
Getting bounced around by morning stars in multi is also not fun.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
No FS1 weapon sounds nice when firing.  FS1 had awful sound design.

tss tss tss tss tss tss

... okay, you have a point. I think it sounds nice when compared with everything else.

 
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
it's better than the new balor sound effect at least
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Aesaar

  • 210
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
it's better than the new balor sound effect at least
If you have ideas for a better one, I'm all ears.  Seriously, I've looked for one but have found nothing suitable.  I'm very open to a replacement.

 
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
I don't really know why you replaced the old sound, to be honest. It at least had an impact.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
Wasn't the old sound the Shivan Light Laser? I think it got cut for being kind of shrill.

 

Offline Hades

  • FINISHING MODELS IS OVERRATED
  • 212
  • i wonder when my polycounts will exceed my iq
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
I really wonder how it worked in multiplayer, where it somehow managed to be commonplace, despite the supposed "anti-fun" effect.
It wasn't despite of that feature but because of it that it became so commonplace in multiplayer. How can the enemy player even fire back if they're busy being bounced around?

Generally speaking if something is being taken 50%-75% over everything else in a game you've also run into balancing issues as well. Sometimes, from stats or from design; the latter of which is the case here, as the Morningstar's stats were very underwhelming.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 02:29:45 pm by Hades »
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Dragon

  • Citation needed
  • 212
  • The sky is the limit.
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
On the other hand, it had no "house rule". To prohibit it. From what I read, Infyrno and EMP (the latter being subject to similar criticism when given to AI) were not commonly used precisely because getting shot by them wasn't fun. Why was the Morning Star different? If it was so "not fun" why didn't it end in the same basket as Infyrno?
The Avenger does more shield damage than the Prometheus and nearly identical hull damage.  It also has a lower power draw, longer range, and higher velocity.  It's better.  There is absolutely no reason in FS1 to take any weapon other than the Avenger and maybe the Banshee.
Fair enough, so perhaps Avenger could use a nerf to both stats. I didn't use it because I tend to believe loadout screen stats at the time I played FS1, I suppose.
And who gives a **** about FS2 multiplayer?  The issues with FS2's netcode means the meta there is nowhere near the same as it is in singleplayer, and no one is designing multiplayer mods.
Well, BP has a multi component, which Hades has a badge for. Also, ideally, there would be no significant difference between combat with AI and combat with human players (at least as far as BP goes, with its entire "player and AI equality" shtick). We're still quite far from that ideal, but that doesn't mean we can't be thinking of how to get closer to it.

 

Offline Hades

  • FINISHING MODELS IS OVERRATED
  • 212
  • i wonder when my polycounts will exceed my iq
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
BP Multi is effectively dead because everyone lost interest due to the decrepit state FSO's multiplayer is in.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

  • 211
  • The Cthulhu programmer himself!
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
As one of the few people who has even played multiplayer within the past couple years, let alone one of the developers who've attempted to fix multiplayer issues, I can assure you that nobody plays multiplayer, and probably won't until something drastic happens.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline CT27

  • 210
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
Based on the comments here, I found out that the Avenger was better than the Prometheus in FS1.  I honestly didn't know that.

 

Offline BirdofPrey

  • 28
  • Help! I see GIMP in my sleep
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
That's probably because the fitting screen lies.
The Great War ended 30 years ago.
Our elders tell stories of a glorious civilization; of people with myths of humanity everlasting, who hurled themselves into the void of space with no fear.

In testing: Radar Icons

 

Offline Galemp

  • Actual father of Samus
  • 212
  • Current projects: GVCa Tanen, Vasudan Imperium
    • Steam
    • User page on the FreeSpace Wiki
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
Just like the Boanerges' supposed maneuverability.
"Anyone can do any amount of work, provided it isn't the work he's supposed to be doing at that moment." -- Robert Benchley

Members I've personally met: RedStreblo, Goober5000, Sandwich, Splinter, Su-tehp, Hippo, CP5670, Terran Emperor, Karajorma, Dekker, McCall, Admiral Wolf, mxlm, RedSniper, Stealth, Black Wolf...

 
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
or the myrm's supposed notapileof****ness
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: FreeSpace Blue: FreeSpace 2 as it should've been.
BP Multi is effectively dead because everyone lost interest due to the decrepit state FSO's multiplayer is in.
And would require a significant modding overhaul just to be compatible with current BP versions, as it was based on now obsolete BP versions from years ago. And yes, FSO multi is not exactly in a playable state right now.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Homeworld: Blue Planet     -     Help us help you     -     FSO Installer     -     BP extras portal     -     My legacy

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie