[an0n]

Reasons to invade Iraq:

• America ****ed up the first time and want to try and win this time (I classify winning as destroying Husseins regime)
• America say that they have bio, chem and nuke weapons and they're basing this on the fact that Hussein has been looking into building nukes......err....just like every other president, king and prime minister for the last 50 years.

So, basically, everyone should attack because America wants Hussein dead. Despite the fact that he's done nothing particularly wrong since the Gulf War.

Reasons not to invade Iraq:

• Hundreds of thousands of troops will die
• They probably won't get Hussein anyway
• If America invade another middle-eastern country then everyone in the region is gonna get spooked and Americas power in the region will be nullified.
• America have no business medling in the affairs of others
• America are hypocrits. They want war because of his facist regime which imprisons enemies of the state at will and tortures them........Hmmm. Can anyone say PATRIOT?

They don't give a **** about global stability or wiping out terrorists. They're simply wanting to settle old scores, increase their influence over those in the region and trying to act big and hard in order to scare people like China and Russia into line.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by an0n
Reasons to invade Iraq:

• America ****ed up the first time and want to try and win this time (I classify winning as destroying Husseins regime)
• America say that they have bio, chem and nuke weapons and they're basing this on the fact that Hussein has been looking into building nukes......err....just like every other president, king and prime minister for the last 50 years.

So, basically, everyone should attack because America wants Hussein dead. Despite the fact that he's done nothing particularly wrong since the Gulf War.

Reasons not to invade Iraq:

• Hundreds of thousands of troops will die
• They probably won't get Hussein anyway
• If America invade another middle-eastern country then everyone in the region is gonna get spooked and Americas power in the region will be nullified.
• America have no business medling in the affairs of others
• America are hypocrits. They want war because of his facist regime which imprisons enemies of the state at will and tortures them........Hmmm. Can anyone say PATRIOT?

They don't give a **** about global stability or wiping out terrorists. They're simply wanting to settle old scores, increase their influence over those in the region and trying to act big and hard in order to scare people like China and Russia into line. [/B]

:D Exactly! :D

[Zeronet]

Tell me, where is Saddamn getting this magically powerful Army from? The Boy scouts have more of a backbone, does anyway remember the highway of Death?

[an0n]

No army = No defence = No chance of launching bio, chem or nuke weapons as they'd get instantly whooped. So why the **** does anyone care?

And you don't need troops to kill people, just a few men with landmine filled trucks and rocket launchers.

[Tiara]

OK, this is getting nowhere...

*leaves thread...*

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by Bobboau
why doesn't anybody want us to go into Iraq

The UK is somewhat divided (between Blair and the 80 % of the population). If it came to it and the UK got invloved I think there would be some big protests in the street.

Here are some of the reasons. Note I do not argee with all of them:

1. Some people think that attacks wont get to Saddam and will just kill civialians.
2. People dont want the middle east to get any more crazy
3. Its techinically illegal (this is the one that bothers me *)
4. Other people just dont trust America and think its all about oil.
5. Other people think war solves nothing.

* If we are not willing to stick to our rules when things get tough, why should anyone else?

I read an interesting article that said that America's main worry in a conflict with the Iraq is that Saddam will retaliate by attacking israel with missles (like it did before). Israel has stated something along the lines that it *would* retaliate under such cirmumstances, unlike last time. Also apparently American, note: American officials have stated that if Israel was to recieve heavy casuaties from any bio attacks it would consider using nuclear weapons.

[an0n]

note: American officials have stated that if Israel was to recieve heavy casuaties from any bio attacks it would consider using nuclear weapons.

Oh, God I hope they do. The UN would ****ing rape them, they'd never be allowed to attack or bully ANYONE ever again without UN approval, all their embargos against countries like Cuba would be nullified when the UN turned on them, China and Russia would use it to impose heavy restrictions on American weaponry. The world in general would be a better place.

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by an0n
Reasons to invade Iraq:
They don't give a **** about global stability or wiping out terrorists. They're simply wanting to settle old scores, increase their influence over those in the region and trying to act big and hard in order to scare people like China and Russia into line.

Probably more China than Russia. Russia wants to invade Georgia but:

"Weapons no longer work, planes cannot fly for lack of parts and fuel."

Another interesting point is that *apparently* the US wont let weapons inpectors into its weapons facilities either.

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by an0n

Oh, God I hope they do. The world in general would be a better place.

Except for Iraq.

However, ironically I imagine America would do anything in their power to stop that from happening.

[Top Gun]

WOW america actually interested in the affairs of other nations Give me a break. The only reason war with Iraq is on the cards is so the shrub can get his grubby little hands on all their oil and not have to worry about what people think. After all they're only foregners, who cares if they get blown up, maimed or starve


-There has been NO evidence to link Iraq with Al Quaeda.


-Saddam Hussein's regieme inside iraq is probable the least fundamentalist in that area (with the exception of the UAE). The guy has more in common with Stalin than Osama (still not good).


-The reason they hate America is because of the Genocidal blockade on the country that has been condemmed by nearly every humanitarian organization including some from within the UN.

 
-Saddam's regieme may be far from perfect but America has supported far worse regiemes in the past, funded and armed far worse regiemes in the past (Including the Taliban, Al Quaeda and ironically Saddam) and tried to overthrow reasonably good governments (Cuba Anyone?) for its own selfish wants.


-The War crimes committed in Vietnam by America were far worse than anything Saddam Hussein has ever been capable of, so perhaps the rest of the world should have bombed America to rubble and installed a puppet government that has no interest at all in the people its supposed to represent.

[RandomTiger]

Originally posted by LtNarol
If he had nukes, the US would be a crater.

There are two parts to a weapon, the payload and the delivery system. Thankfully countries like Iraq do not have missles that go very far, otherwise who knows what would be going on.

I think its safe to say that America would have a had a bio attack from Saddam if that wasnt the case.

[an0n]

Originally posted by RandomTiger


There are two parts to a weapon, the payload and the delivery system. Thankfully countries like Iraq do not have missles that go very far, otherwise who knows what would be going on.

I think its safe to say that America would have a had a bio attack from Saddam if that wasnt the case.

This is why America kicked Japans ass in WW2, force projection. They used their massively superior aircraft carriers to deliver their war-planes further and more easily into Japanese territory.

It's also why Germany got whooped. Lots of kick-ass range on their rockets but no real firepower.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by an0n
This is why America kicked Japans ass in WW2, force projection. They used their massively superior aircraft carriers to deliver their war-planes further and more easily into Japanese territory.

Still, those kami planes did some real damage...

[an0n]

Originally posted by Tiara
Still, those kami planes did some real damage...

They were pretty damn cost effective too. Normally you'd have to pay for a bomb, a plane, plane fuel for a round trip, pilots wages. But with kamikaze planes you've just got to pay for the plane, half as much fuel and some explosives to pack it with.

[CP5670]

Ah, a politics thread.

it's none of USA business anymore.

This thing about "it's none of your business" is a bunch of nonsense; anything and everything is everyone's business if there are controlling interests at stake, which is always the case. At the very least, we will eliminate a very real potential threat to the survival of Americans; why worry about them when you can simply get rid of them?

WOW america actually interested in the affairs of other nations  Give me a break. The only reason war with Iraq is on the cards is so the shrub can get his grubby little hands on all their oil and not have to worry about what people think. After all they're only foregners, who cares if they get blown up, maimed or starve

You stated the last part very well there. As vyper said in an earlier thread, governments exist to protect their and only their populations. It does not matter if all the Iraqis get "blown up, maimed or straved" if it helps the Americans in any way, and this can be reduced to enough precision such that no opinions matter at all and everything can be objectively deduced from logic. I think that at some point there will be a single united government that rules the entire globe, but for today, this is the way the world works and how things stand.

There has been NO evidence to link Iraq with Al Quaeda.

I doubt they would release all of the top secret information they have to the public; how would you know?

I don't quite trust the US government either to make truly rational decisions based on the information, looking at their history (e.g. irrational fear of communism), but these petty moral excuses that people use against them are just pathetic.

-Saddam Hussein's regieme inside iraq is probable the least fundamentalist in that area (with the exception of the UAE). The guy has more in common with Stalin than Osama (still not good).

Sure, but that is no reason not to get rid of him anyway. We can install in some other guy who may be equally brutal but is more friendly towards the western nations, which would be in our interest, and that is all that matters.

-The reason they hate America is because of the Genocidal blockade on the country that has been condemmed by nearly every humanitarian organization including some from within the UN.

Actually, I would say that this is the reason that only the current government hates the US; the propaganda systems cause parts of the population to go along with that as well, but I would not exactly say that the US is uniformly hated and Hussein is considered a great savior of the people throughout the nation.

Many of those humanitarian organizations are just more of these fools who try to base everything on some nonexistant ethical values; again, tell me why, say, Hitler's ethics are in any way inferior to ours.

-Saddam's regieme may be far from perfect but America has supported far worse regiemes in the past, funded and armed far worse regiemes in the past (Including the Taliban, Al Quaeda and ironically Saddam) and tried to overthrow reasonably good governments (Cuba Anyone?) for its own selfish wants.

The War crimes committed in Vietnam by America were far worse than anything Saddam Hussein has ever been capable of, so perhaps the rest of the world should have bombed America to rubble and installed a puppet government that has no interest at all in the people its supposed to represent.

I cannot see how this has anything whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. People apparently just love to use these moralistic excuses; the US may be the biggest, baddest monster regime in the world (and probably is), but so what? The Vietnam events were bad, but for completely different reasons. I have said this many times and I will say it again: the truly sensible nations do not fight for any stupid ethical values, but they fight for the continued long-term survival of their people and their people alone.

Someone get daveb in here...

[Styxx]

The reason the US wants to invade is simple:

Oil.

The reason the rest of the world doesn't want to invade is simple:

Oil.


If the US invaded, even with the help of the other nations, it would cause a temporary collapse on the worldwide oil distribution. It would raise the price of the oil to astronomical levels, causing a massive impact on the world's economy. Strangely enough, the US would be the only country not to be affected, simply because it would control all those reserves that formerly belonged to Iraq. Convenient, huh?

Also, despite any technology difference, such invasion would have a tremendous cost, both in personnel and equipment. There would have to be occupation, or else the invasion would have been for nothing, and guerilla units can cause extreme damage to occupation forces, suffering only minor losses. They could also sabotage the oil extraction facilities if they felt they were about to lose, destroying the very objective of the invasion in the first place.

Considering the costs, and the fact that the US would be the only country to benefit from the invasion, it's no wonder that no other country want to be a part of it.

[an0n]

*hugs the North Sea oil fields*
*showers*
*brags about how much Britain would benefit from selling oil at $40,000 per barrell*
*thinks about how good it'd be to force people to start using electric cars adn the likes*

[Levyathan]

Originally posted by CP5670
You stated the last part very well there. As vyper said in an earlier thread, governments exist to protect their and only their populations. It does not matter if all the Iraqis get "blown up, maimed or straved" if it helps the Americans in any way, and this can be reduced to enough precision such that no opinions matter at all and everything can be objectively deduced from logic.

Oh boy. I better keep my mouth shut for the good of my membership.

[CP5670]

Yeah, the oil is another important issue. It makes perfect sense that others do not want to have anything to do with the invasion, but the issue is more whether the US alone should go in or not. (actually, the others would also benefit if they go in as well, grabbing their shares of the "spoils of war," i.e. the oil )

If the US invaded, even with the help of the other nations, it would cause a temporary collapse on the worldwide oil distribution. It would raise the price of the oil to astronomical levels, causing a massive impact on the world's economy. Strangely enough, the US would be the only country not to be affected, simply because it would control all those reserves that formerly belonged to Iraq. Convenient, huh?

I'm not too sure that the oil prices would change around enough to be so devastating; there would be a significant increase in prices but it would not be anywhere near dangerous to the global economic system and things will settle themselves out quickly once the initial invasion is over.

Oh boy. I better keep my mouth shut for the good of my membership.

In other words, you cannot think of more arguments?

Actually I doubt anyone will be banned simply because of this; feel free to voice out your views.

[Levyathan]

Originally posted by CP5670
In other words, you cannot think of more arguments?

More arguments? What was my other argument?