[Nico]

Originally posted by Kazan
all the evidenca nd logic is on my side - none of it on yours - i've argued this argument atleast 50 times

I'm not searching to prove anything, I don't need evidences or logic, I just like it, and to hell with the others if that bothers them. But as all my friends smoke too, that's like no pb at all for me

[Kazan]

Nico: so you willingly and knowling will violate anothe persons right to bodily integrity

i've gotten away with busting a person lower jaw right in front of a cop before for that

[Nico]

I smoke outside, at my friends places and in bars. Outside, I don't give a damn, smoke goes up unless you purposely go right in front of me, and at the other places, people who go there can't expect no smoke.
And I'm very impressed with you threatening me, kid

[Kazan]

tobacco and  marijuana smoke really doesn't "go up" and i can smell it from well over 100 yards away if the smokers upwind from me

so don't try using outside as an excuse - because it's not

[Nico]

100 yards away. Yeah. And I can hear you type from here.
Never mind, ok.

[Rictor]

Alright, so be basically come to the conclusion that by your logic, smokers are willing violating your rights, they just don't give a ****.

You think they should stop, they shouldn't. By your logic you're right, by theirs they are. So, just try to enforce your views, see how far you get. Next person you see smoking within 100m of you, break his nose. Better yet, take him to court.

_________

Logic is all well and good, but if human beings held logic to be important above all else, we wouldn't really be humans now would we? We'de be organic machines. Logic is a wonderful thing, but trying to apply it to every single itty bitty facet of life ruins the experience of living.

Logically, you are always safer inside your house than outside, since you can better control your environment while inside. Once you step outside, who knows what might happen? You might get run over, stabbed to death, you might get a brick dropped on your head, you might trip and break your arm, youu might inhale dangerous poisons, you might fall in love. Safer to just stay inside then, eh? Logical demands it.

[01010]

Originally posted by Nico
100 yards away. Yeah. And I can hear you type from here.
Never mind, ok.

I laughed, I gotta admit, I laughed really loud at this one.

[Setekh]

Cool it, guys. Don't make us lock this.

[Nico]

why not? the purpose of the thread was to give Kaz an opportunity of starting yet another holy crusade. I don't think it deserves to live on

[Setekh]

I'm hoping Kazan has the sense to lead this thread to a more sensible path than he originally began it on if that's the premise it started on, and for all of us to help with that. If that's what people want. Up to all of us, really, to decide where we want to go with this kind of discussion. Does a crusade help anyone, in the end? Does a frontal confrontation to a crusade help anyone either?

[Culando]

I don't smoke, can't stand second hand smoke, but I have nothing against smokers just as long as they aren't jerks about it.

I have a friend who smokes, but he doesn't smoke around me cause I've asked him politely not to.

My resperatory (sp?) system is screwed up enough as it is, I don't need to clog it with tar and other nice things like that. But anti-smoking jerks can be just as annoying as smoking jerks, and fyi I'm basing that on RL experiences, I'm not referring to anyone here.

[Kazan]

Rcitor: you logic fails, because of escalation of properties of rights

your rights end, where the other person's nose begins -- to use an expression.


If you want to call a campaign to promote human rights a crusade, then fine - we can treat it like one, but crusades are not civil.  Learn to respect other peoples human rights, if that means you have to modify your bheavior then that means your behavior was inappropraite

[Nico]

The one who has behaviour pbs, here, has never been me, sir.

[Kazan]

You've never seen yourself?

Chemically violating someone elses body and not caring is a behavior problem.  In the case I refered to above the smoker in question intentionally blew it at in my face at an outside debate voer the issue - he and several other smokers were huffing and puffing to offend us, and security ask them to leave after they got as blatant as blowing it in my face intentionally, they tried to protest but the cops were like "they consider that a deadly assault on their body, and we'll let the courts decide it in the end; but for the moment they have the more compelling legal argument, so you're going to leave the area immediately"

[Setekh]

Originally posted by Culando
My resperatory (sp?) system is screwed up enough as it is, I don't need to clog it with tar and other nice things like that. But anti-smoking jerks can be just as annoying as smoking jerks, and fyi I'm basing that on RL experiences, I'm not referring to anyone here.

Respiratory, with an 'i'. Why, have you got Asthma too?

[Culando]

You see Kazan? That blows up your entire argument right there, stereotyping all smokers as people who don't care about anyone else. Are there people like that? I have no doubt, but not ALL smokers are like that.

And acting like they're smoking for the sole purpose of polluting is just silly.

Don't bother starting a debate if all you're going to do is go "SMOKERZ R TEH EVIL". I've seen WAY too many "debates" like this on another MB I go to. And they all end the same. You want to debate the issue? Fine, but be civil about it.

Edit: And yeah Steak, well, sorta. I have asthmatic tendencies or something. I get winded really easy and too much smoke can make it hard for me to breath at all.

[Nico]

Whatever, Kaz. I love running around blowing smoke up the nose of old geezers and babies alike.

[Kazan]

Culando: i was speaking specifically about Nico, not stereotypic, english 101 pls

I know some very polite smokers.. there are one or two in this thread - but smoking period is a violation of other people's rights because person X is forcing their decision on person Y

---------

Culando: having clean lungs increases the reaction to cigarette smoke exponentiatally - the coughing is primarily from the Hydrazine (which is freaking rocket fuel) in the smoke, and some of it's from the Formeldehyde (sp?)

[Rictor]

Just becuase it IS affecting you, does not mean it is a significant effect. Its like a drop in the ocean. You're complaing that people are adding drops to the ocean, and we're saying that its so miniscule that it doesn't matter.

yes, according to perfect logic smokers are violating your rights, but humans don't, nor should they, function on 100% logic. You have to consider the *degree* to which your rights are being violated.

[01010]

Rictor, leave him to it mate, it's like talking at a brick wall, he doesn't digest anything you say to him.