[Kazan]

Bob: whether you think the ETS data is BS or not thousands of independant studies have come up with the same conclusions - and any conclusions to the contrary defy the laws of biochemistry


PS: trying to distract by bringing up other things is technically a logical fallacy - i have also alreaded stated that hte internal combustion engine should be retired and banned and replaced with clean energy vehicles as soon as posssible

[Fineus]

Originally posted by Rictor
Smoking gives people a vice, which leads to a calmer mood and less stress. Everyone has a vice, whether you think you do or not.

Oh I have a vice, but smoking isn't my vice. My vices don't affect others - nor should they.

Smoking affects everyone a smoker is near.

They also pollute the air worse than all the cigarettes in the world combined.

Perhaps they indeed do, but how else do you plan to travel long distances without burning fossil fuels? In this world we live in - fast transport is a must.

Aside from that - nobody drives their car in a place others are trying to relax, like a bar or a home. They drive them where there's plenty of ventilation - outside.

Meat on the other hand I wouldn't know about. I enjoy meat, but I can't say I know what goes into it these days. I do know that it only affects me though - the guy sitting in the same room doesn't have to passively eat it

[Bobboau]

I don't think SHS is good for you, no, it is bad, I mean it's smok how the hell could it be good for you, but the attitude that it's more toxic than freak'n VX gas is bull. there are things so much more dangerus in the world that harassing people about there personal vices just isn't worth it.

[Fineus]

The day someone lets VX gas off down at my local, I'll complain about that for the rest of my natural life What I'm complaining about is; Why should I go through the pain of a headache, eyeache, coughing, sore throat and smelling unpleasent untill I wash myself and my clothes - just so you can calm yourself?

If killing pet rabbits was legal, would you be revulted that - to calm myself - I place some in a bag and use it as a punch bag untill the rabbits within are in a great deal of pain, maybe with serious injuries?

I hope so. So it is with smoking - sure I have less fur than a rabbit - but a smoker couldn't understand the pain and irritation that non-smokers endure by being in a smoke-filled atmosphere for any great length of time. I don't give a damn how much it calms you - don't do it near me and I'll be fine, and indeed so will you. Consideration works both ways. If smoking were possible and legal everywhere, smokers would smoke everywhere. You know it's true - and I don't see any consideration for non-smokers there.

[Rictor]

Yes, but reasonable laws already *are* in place, or soon will be. You are protected *enough*. Not totally protected, but protected enough not to develop any serious lung conditions from inhaling SHS whilst living your everyday life.

I have nothing (much) against your demands, they're pretty reasonable. What I am against is Kazan's demands to have 0ppm smoke in *his* air. Thats just not going to happen.

[Kazan]

the only thing that qualifies as being "protected enough" from carcinogens is MAXIMUM POSSIBLE PROTECTION - which we do not have right now.


When did i say it was _MY_ air, - it's OUR air, thats everyones - and just because some people want to calm themselves via tha placebic affect and the satiation of their addition doesn't mean everyone should be poisoned

[Bobboau]

but the good that removeing all cigarets from the world is going to be negated the next time you get into yor car and go anywere.

[Grey Wolf]

At least there it isn't confined to a small, enclosed area. Still not good, but at least you're not breathing in a concentrated cloud of carcinogens and carbon monoxide.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Bobboau
but the good that removeing all cigarets from the world is going to be negated the next time you get into yor car and go anywere.

That's why after banning cigarettes Kazan is going to ban cars, airplanes, and then he'll join Liberator in the campaign against sex. (SPERM POLLUTION!!!1111)

...just kiddin' Kaz

Also for the record, I hate the smell of smoking and I'd like to see perks for public places banning it. (i.e. restaurants, theaters, etc. including the premises outside) But what people do in their own home is their own business, and legislating a full ban into law wouldn't be too bright of an idea.

[Bobboau]

bull****!

only half of that is about the toppic

[Kazan]

Ace: actually legilsating a full ban would be a great idea all across the board, civil rights, public health, economy


I'd force updating of cars, airplanes, power plants to _clean_ energy as soon as possible

and then I would bomb liberator out of existance

[Ransom]

I fail to see the point in smoking. It's practically a form of suicide. But I tolerate it. I'm not going to constantly bug smokers about their habits, I'm sure they already know it's dangerous. It's their choice to keep smoking, as long as they're not smoking in my face I'm not going to complain (though I won't go into a smoker's house if I can help it, I hate the smell).

[Tiara]

TCO smokes But I'm not bothered by the smell *notices anti-tabacco smell parfuminator

Besides, it's not like your 'forced' to live with people who smoke. Well, the public buildings and stuff, yes. And I agree that there should be permanent ban on that. Actually in Holland there already is a ban on smoking in public buildings. Except bars and stuff. Thats about to be enacted. In June IIRC. And although I personally am not bothered by smokers at all, I am glad this law is going to be active soon.

As a side note; The law against smoking in bars/restaurants can be avoided by placing a by the health department approved air filtering system.

Yet, we're allowed to smoke weed as much as we want. Go figure

[Bobboau]

Originally posted by Tiara
Yet, we're allowed to smoke weed as much as we want. Go figure

oh
my
god
...

we need a smiley for lauhging so hard you cry

[01010]

Kazan, you should try for the police to be a drug sniffer, seeing as how your nose is so sensitive, you'd be a massive hit.

[Grey Wolf]

You guys have to admit that second hand smoke can be quite annoying, especially if one already has problems with their lungs, such as asthma.

[01010]

I'm not denying that, I don't think anyone but the most deluded persons are. What the point we're trying to make is that someone smoking cigarettes in their own home is not affecting you on a significant scale if you are not in their house.

[Bobboau]

and if you are, just get the **** out

[Kazan]

acting like your own home is something special when it comes to things that remain aerosol for extended periods of time - especially when this has been explaiend to you three times is deluding yourself

[Bobboau]

you aparently didn't watch that show I linked you to, many of the reports put out that most organisations rely on to claim that SHS is some huge health problem is simply wrong, it singles out the study by the EPA in 1993 were the simply fabricated there results and a 1998 WHO studdy that was preported to show a definitave link but when you actualy looked at the conclusions of the study it sais that the risks of SHS to adults was not statisticly segnifigant.
the increse in chances of getting lung cancer between those who are exposed to SHS and those that are not is 2.5 out of a _million_