Author Topic: March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC  (Read 15175 times)

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Offline Kazan

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March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC
Grey Wolf 2009: the 'put it up for adoption' arguement is not compelling and ignores the health risks of pregnancies, costs, the fact that MOST unwannted children NEVER get adopted and bouncing around through the foster care system


I HIGHLY recommend you read the following excerpts

Marjorie Bell Chambers "argued that in the conflict between saving the fetus or the life of the woman, the phrase, 'cannot be infringed' meant 'that men and fetuses have a right to life at all timse, but women lose that right when they become pregnant'"


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... the World Health Organization reports "585,00 women die each year during childbirth and pregnancy."  And "for every maternal death," it is reported "as many as thirty women sustain often times crippling and lifelong health problems related to pregnancy""

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The antiabortion movement poses another health risk to women as well.  Acorrding to Flora Davis, in Moving the Mountain: The Women's Movement in America since 1960, abortion was legal in the country until around 1900.  By that time, male physicians desiring to increase business by taking on child birthing, had gained the support of chruches and theclergy in condemning the practice.   Previously, women saw midwives and others for their reproductive health.  Churches had origionally not opposed abortion, until the business-cause of the male physicians took hold.  Regardless of the illegalization of abortion, by the 1960s, more than a million abortions were performed anually in the United States...

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Since the legalization of abortion, a survey administered by Reproductive Health Services in St. Louis has been given to patients at their three-week medical check-up after abortion.  It found every woman would have sought an illegal and unsafe way to end her pregnancy if legalized abortion were not available or else they would have considered suicide.

Perhaps the most disturbing part of this whole right-to-life effort is that fundamentalists and the religious right refuse to take part in the prevention of pregnancy.  This could easily be done by advocation for appropriate sex education and contraceptive use or for improving the economic conditions for low-incoming women to support a baby.  Yet, they have gone to great lengths to prevent appropraite and adequate sex and family planning educate.  And they have worked to make birth control difficult, if not impossible, to obtain.  This has been especially so with the most effective contraceptives, and not only for youth, but for many adults, especially the poor.
While fundamentalists insist on abstinence-only or celibacy as an answer to pegnancy prevention, it has proven an unrealistic method of birth control for a majority of the population.  As a result, girls and women become pregnant.  Abortion then becomes the only suitable solution for the many who are unable, at the time, to take on the responsibility of having a baby and who are emotionally unable to go give up a baby for adoption.  In turn, the funamentalists who prevented these women frmo obtaining and, therefore using contraceptives, accuse these women of using abortion as their method of choice for birth control.  The, in contrast, when unamrried women choose not to have an abortion, they're accused of having many children to take advantage of the welfare system.  In reality, having more children was the last thing they wanted.  Either way, pregnant women are punished.


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Furthermore, 14 million American children go to bed hungry every  night.  And in the United States, the infant mortality rate ranks twentieth among industrialized nations.  In 1984, according to The New York Times, the United States had more than 50,000 children available for adoption.  Many have multi[ple handicaps, requiring lifetime medical care.  So how will our nation care for the more unwanted children should Roe v Wade be overturned?  It is clear that concern for the unborn is not the issue at hand.  The anti-abortion campaign is, largely, just one more way for patriarchs to keep women under their control.

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The dangers fundamentalism poses to women are many.  Women raised in Christian fundamentalist homes suffer emotinoally, sexually, and physically as adults.  This is because of the beliefs with which they have been indoctrinated and, ultimately, from their acceptance of male domination in the marriage.  ...  Finally, they are hindred by a wide range of acts meant to keep women barefoot, pregnant, and in their "proper" role."


PG 108-114 The Fundamentals of Extremism
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Offline Su-tehp

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Kazan knows his stuff. :yes:

Yeah, I can't believe the hippocrisy of the pro-life people when they want to outlaw abortion, but then deny contraceptives to women who have sex but don't want to get pregnant.

Thank God for the 1.15 million people who showed up at the March on Sunday. Maybe we'll be able to turn this around.
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Offline Kazan

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Su-tehp: i was quoting from "The Fundamentals of Extremism" because they are citing sources and what not and are more knowledgeable than me on some aspects of it so they can lay the arguement out better
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Offline ionia23

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Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
Kazan knows his stuff. :yes:

Yeah, I can't believe the hippocrisy of the pro-life people when they want to outlaw abortion, but then deny contraceptives to women who have sex but don't want to get pregnant.


You are a fool if you believe the pro-life movement is about saving lives.

Not you as in "you", you as in anyone.
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Offline Grey Wolf

March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
The reasons for the use of late-term abortion are not for women who have a last minute change of heart.  The proceedure is used for the sake of the woman's health and, in some cases, when there is "severe fetal abnormality", says obstetrician Dr. Aleen Rosenfield, who is also the dean of New York's Columbia School of Public Health.
Bit of a question: Wouldn't things like this show up on the ultrasound and the like, well before the the end of the third trimester?
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Bit of a question: Wouldn't things like this show up on the ultrasound and the like, well before the the end of the third trimester?


Does every single medical problem you'll have in the next year show up in your yearly check-up?

You're ignoring conditions that develop after the first scans, conditions that were invisible at the time and things that were basically missed because they could have been a smudge on the monitor.
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Offline Grey Wolf

March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC
I realize that, just seemed that life-threatening defects would show up earlier.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Kazan

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Grey Wolf 2009: What kara said AND then you have the 'partial-birth abortion' thing, where the featus is large enough that it must be extracted by the time these things are detectable - but induction before thirty-six weeks being potentially life threatening - and at best threaten the health of the mother
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
I realize that, just seemed that life-threatening defects would show up earlier.


Some do but have you ever looked at an ultrasound pic? I'm amazed the doctors can even see the child, let alone detect problems with it :D

As for the whole teaching of contraception thing here's the way I'd solve the problem.  Every child would get full teaching on the use of contraceptives. Plain and simple. However this would cause problems with those religious zealots so here's my compromise.

Every child would get full teaching on the use of contraceptives unless the parents sign a waiver stating that they refuse to allow their children to be taught how to use contraceptives. At that point the teaching of the child in that matter becomes the responsibility of the parents and if said child does become pregnant the parents who neglected their duty in preventing the child getting pregnant have to pay child support same as the father has to from then on until the child reaches 18.

I see no reason why the state that you prevented from teaching your child about the birds and the bees should have to pay for your stupidity and poor teaching when you tried to do it yourself.
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Offline Grey Wolf

March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC
At least in my school, they teach you about all that stuff in Health class in either 11th or 12th grade. Of course, some people have already had 3 children or so, but they're just not too bright.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Su-tehp

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Quote
Originally posted by ionia23
You are a fool if you believe the pro-life movement is about saving lives.

Not you as in "you", you as in anyone.


Yeah, I remember one of the chants we shouted at the "pro-life" counter-protestors went like this:

"Pro-life, that's a lie! You don't care if women die!"

So, yeah, "pro-life" is kind of an ironic misnomer, especially when the more extremist of the pro-lifers go out and shoot doctors...
REPUBLICANO FACTIO DELENDA EST

Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign - Current Story Editor of the Exile campaign

"Let my people handle this, we're trained professionals. Well, we're semi-trained, quasi-professionals, at any rate." --Roy Greenhilt,
The Order of the Stick

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"The meaning of life is that in the end you always get screwed."
--The Catch 42 Expression, The Lost Fleet: Beyond the Frontier: Steadfast

  

Offline Kazan

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Several Pro-Life organizations are on the international terrorists organizations list (But i bet **** leaves them off the domestic list)
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Offline Bobboau

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hmm, wich ones? (for future reference)
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Offline Kazan

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all the ones that advocate violence, i don't remember names off the top of my head and i don't feel like digging through books at 11 pm at night
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Offline Kazan

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am I the only one left standing upon the field of battle
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Offline Goober5000

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Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
So, yeah, "pro-life" is kind of an ironic misnomer
In every abortion, a child dies.  Not every mother or every child will die if an abortion is not performed.

It's not a win-win situation... you have to balance the costs.
Quote
especially when the more extremist of the pro-lifers go out and shoot doctors...
Most pro-lifers (including me) don't approve of that.  'Tis the height of hypocrisy.

 

Offline Flipside

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I always feel that, particuarly in the case of pregnant single girls, it is a lose-lose situation though.

If they don't get an abortion and have the child, they are 'spongers', 'Welfare leeches' and any other number of names.

If they DO have an abortion that are a 'slut', a 'murderer' etc,

What's the poor girl supposed to do? :(

 

Offline ionia23

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Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp

Yeah, I remember one of the chants we shouted at the "pro-life" counter-protestors went like this:

"Pro-life, that's a lie! You don't care if women die!"

So, yeah, "pro-life" is kind of an ironic misnomer, especially when the more extremist of the pro-lifers go out and shoot doctors...


There's this guy who ran a website called "The Nuremberg Files", posting pictures of employees (and their families) of various Planned Parenthood clincs, occasionally crossing out a name when one of them got killed.  Neal Horsely, yeah, that's his name.

His argument was "If you saw someone on the street in the process of being murdered would you intervene, or would you write to your congressman to say how offended you were at what you saw?"

That flared up in my head like a light bulb.  What they were "really" saying made sense immediately.

See, it isn't about saving babies or women (the sect of Christianity these people practice is roughly the equivalent of the Taliban's variant of Islam with respect to women).  It's a group of people with major anger issues who need a focus for them, something that makes them feel 'justified' in their actions.  Scary stuff.

Don't you find it interesting that most of the people running the various pro-life organizations are MEN?  Wtf does a man know about being pregnant?*

*(appropriate disclaimers for those who are husbands or partners of women who have gone through this process.  I think you get my point.)
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Offline Grey Wolf

March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC
I still maintain that I believe that abortions should only be done in cases where it is medically required, or for reasons as mentioned above (rape, incest, etc.)

Of course, I sometimes feel that what our country needs are draconian birth control measures (extra taxes and the like on people who have over X number of children, where X would probably be 2-4 or so), and these two concepts don't really mesh.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Kazan

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Grey Wolf 2009: you can maintain that believe - therefore you can follow it yourself and encourage your friends to do so - but you cannot mandate that

you really need to read the citations from the book i made.. did you read them?
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