[Grey Wolf]

Yeah. Some seemed a bit biased, and some are not quite as revelant as they seem (for example, the number of women who die during childbirth would include countries where they lack the tech to prevent basic infections and the like), but they're fairly straight-forward.

And about the personal beliefs/mandate concept, I agree with you there. Doesn't seem to be any reason why anyone should be able to dictate the lives of others.

[Kazan]

They 'seem a bit biased' because they're from a book describing the practices of the fundamentalist movement -- but it's not biased at all

they cite their sources throughout the entire book - im to page 120 something and they already have over 300 unique sources

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Goober5000
In every abortion, a child dies.  Not every mother or every child will die if an abortion is not performed.

It's not a win-win situation... you have to balance the costs.Most pro-lifers (including me) don't approve of that.  'Tis the height of hypocrisy.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally posted by Kazan
They 'seem a bit biased' because they're from a book describing the practices of the fundamentalist movement -- but it's not biased at all

they cite their sources throughout the entire book - im to page 120 something and they already have over 300 unique sources

Part of the problem is that the quotes are out of context, hence they lack the references and sources that would help them make sense.

[Kazan]

Grey Wolf 2009: i grabbed the more important sections so you could get the idea

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Goober5000
In every abortion, a child dies.  Not every mother or every child will die if an abortion is not performed.

It's not a win-win situation... you have to balance the costs.Most pro-lifers (including me) don't approve of that.  'Tis the height of hypocrisy.

A featus is not a child - until the 'date of viability' it is part of the mothers body, since it cannot exist outside that body

Banning abortion is a lose-lose-lose situation (Human Rights Loss, Increase Poverty, Violation of the Constitution)

''Balance the costs" - you're trying to see the world in terms of black and white, come on join the real world - it is NOT black and white, that is the height of ignorance

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Kazan
''Balance the costs" - you're trying to see the world in terms of black and white, come on join the real world - it is NOT black and white, that is the height of ignorance

Well, more likely you're the height of ignorance, but we won't discuss that.

Originally posted by Kazan

A featus is not a child - until the 'date of viability' it is part of the mothers body, since it cannot exist outside that body

Who cares about existing outside the womb? This is one of the most ridiculous and laughable comments made by no-choice advocates. What matters is the future life... hold on now, watch this.

Murder is illegal. Why? Why is it wrong to take the life of someone? Because you hurt them? No, because by taking the life of someone, you're doing just that: taking their life; denying that person the right to live. By killing the fetus you are denying a future human being his life--if all was left to natural process that child would have a very high chance of survival. By intervening and destroying that developing human you are denying him something that is his fundamental right: his life.

Originally posted by Kazan
Banning abortion is a lose-lose-lose situation (Human Rights Loss, Increase Poverty, Violation of the Constitution)

How is ensuring the rights of the unable to speak a losing situation? The children can't speak, therefore it is acceptable to destroy them? Abortion is absolute cruelty as any definition would have it.

~Beowulf

[ionia23]

Originally posted by ionia23

Don't you find it interesting that most of the people running the various pro-life organizations are MEN?  Wtf does a man know about being pregnant?*

*(appropriate disclaimers for those who are husbands or partners of women who have gone through this process.  I think you get my point.)

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by ionia23
Don't you find it interesting that most of the people running the various pro-life organizations are MEN?  Wtf does a man know about being pregnant?*

*(appropriate disclaimers for those who are husbands or partners of women who have gone through this process.  I think you get my point.)

No, I don't. What does a man know about being pregnant?

Uhh, last I checked it was necessary for a guy and a girl to... you know, get it on.

Second, this is a problem of humanity, not pregnancy. A baby is human, no matter how you look at it. The murder of man does not have gender issues.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by Beowulf


Uhh, last I checked it was necessary for a guy and a girl to... you know, get it on.
 

Hence, the flaw in my argument.  I"ve never quite been able to wrap around it completely, but I'm working on it .

I take a position of: if my vote is required to ensure women can still make that choice for themselves, within reason, then they may have it.  I disagree with third trimester pregnancy terminations for reasons other than immediate threat to the fetus or the mother.  However, I'm not sure I should be making that call.

The problem with making gynecological abortion "murder" is that you have to take ANY instance of anyone taking another life and placing it under the same blanket.  Unrealistic.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Beowulf
Murder is illegal. Why? Why is it wrong to take the life of someone? Because you hurt them? No, because by taking the life of someone, you're doing just that: taking their life; denying that person the right to live. By killing the fetus you are denying a future human being his life--if all was left to natural process that child would have a very high chance of survival. By intervening and destroying that developing human you are denying him something that is his fundamental right: his life.

Uh-huh, and by the same idiotic reasoning having a period is murder. Which makes women mass murderers for not trying to get pregnant. If you're going to be a fundamentalist twat you might as well go the whole hog.

Originally posted by Beowulf
By intervening and destroying that developing human you are denying him something that is his fundamental right: his life.

Originally posted by Beowulf
God. I'd love to kill every last one of those ****ers on that bridge.

Whats the story here, you're kicking up about murder one minute and saying you'd love to try it the next? And you expect people to take your arguement seriously?

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Gank


Uh-huh, and by the same idiotic reasoning having a period is murder. Which makes women mass murderers for not trying to get pregnant. If you're going to be a fundamentalist twat you might as well go the whole hog.

Nah. A fertilized egg will develop, an unfertilized egg wont.

Originally posted by Gank

Whats the story here, you're kicking up about murder one minute and saying you'd love to try it the next? And you expect people to take your arguement seriously?

Ahh. I knew someone would grab that. Well, you see, innocent children have done nothing wrong. Bastard ****ers who kill, mutilate, and defile innocent civilians are a whole world and a half different.

[Grey Wolf]

Wait.... You're referring to the people who were basically mercenaries as innocent civilians?

[01010]

But see the thing is, they aren't actually children yet.

**** it, I'm complete opposite end of the spectrum to pro lifers, I'm pro child death, kill em all, pains in the asses the whole lot of em, any child up to the age of 18 should be eligible for abortion in my book.

Some of the little ****s need it in my opinion.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Beowulf


Nah. A fertilized egg will develop, an unfertilized egg wont.

Yes but by not fertilizing the egg shes denieing its chance to live.  Its the same logic you just used to .

Originally posted by Beowulf
Ahh. I knew someone would grab that. Well, you see, innocent children have done nothing wrong. Bastard ****ers who kill, mutilate, and defile innocent civilians are a whole world and a half different.

Innocent civilians? What planet are you on? The guys were 1000 dollar a day mercenaries armed to the teeth paid by a government which illegally invaded Iraq. Anyways you didnt say you wanted to kill the people who killed the mercs, you said you wanted to kill everyone on the bridge. If you were as concerned for peoples rights as you proclaim to be you'd be crying for them to be arrested, tried and then sentenced if they were guilty, but you're crying murder, guilty of anything or no. Who the **** are you to tell people what rights they have.

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Gank

Yes but by not fertilizing the egg shes denieing its chance to live.  Its the same logic you just used to .

No, because it's not fertilized...

Originally posted by Gank
Innocent civilians? What planet are you on? The guys were 1000 dollar a day mercenaries armed to the teeth paid by a government which illegally invaded Iraq. Anyways you didnt say you wanted to kill the people who killed the mercs, you said you wanted to kill everyone on the bridge. If you were as concerned for peoples rights as you proclaim to be you'd be crying for them to be arrested, tried and then sentenced if they were guilty, but you're crying murder, guilty of anything or no. Who the **** are you to tell people what rights they have.

Haha. I'm choking on the words you put in my mouth. I said nothing about rights. I'm saying, "if you attack my countrymen, I hope you die". It's that simple. Saying I hope all the islamofascist die (read: terrorists who bomb innocent women and children) is the same thing.

Mercenaries? When did contractors become mercenaries?

Wait a minute, wait a minute... ILLEGALLY invaded Iraq? Says who? You? Ohh wait... all nations are soveriegn... forgot about that one.

[Rictor]

When they started recieveing thier cheque from Blackwater, a outfit providing mercs do the government. Read it on their website, no one is hiding the fact.

There are also allegations that they were CIA, but I won't get into that at the moment. "Innocent civilians" are not armed, nor are they escorting military equipment and supplies.

They were mercs, or are you naive enough to be fooled by a simple name-change. A rose by any other name...

edit: Right, I forgot. If someone were to invade America, that would be completely legal, right? Sorry, but there is a such a thing as international law. You know, Geneva Convention, Nuremberg...that stuff. Invading a foreign nation is illegal, how can it not be?

[Gank]

Originally posted by Beowulf


No, because it's not fertilized...

But its a potential human, if it was fertilisied then it would become a human being. By not fertilising it you're dening its right to exist, same crappy arguement you use.

Originally posted by Beowulf
Haha. I'm choking on the words you put in my mouth. I said nothing about rights.

Liar.

you are denying him something that is his fundamental right: his life.

Riight, never mentioned rights
Denying you've said something is pretty stupid when its written right above your denial.

Originally posted by Beowulf
I'm saying, "if you attack my countrymen, I hope you die". It's that simple. Saying I hope all the islamofascist die (read: terrorists who bomb innocent women and children) is the same thing.

Oh so they were women and children now? Are you really stupid enough to expect anyone to believe that? Or are you just twisting the facts around so you can justify murder?

Originally posted by Beowulf
Mercenaries? When did contractors become mercenaries?

When they are hired by the military. Look up the word in a dictionary.

Originally posted by Beowulf
Wait a minute, wait a minute... ILLEGALLY invaded Iraq? Says who? You? Ohh wait... all nations are soveriegn... forgot about that one.

Eh, the UN says it was illegal, you know that organisation your country helped set up after ww2 to stop wars from breaking out? Invading other countries is illegal under its charter, which the US signed.

[Flipside]

I am sure you all are aware of the anguish it causes most women to even terminate a month or so old foetus, you should realise that it is never an easy decision to make.

Abortion is a last resort, not a contraceptive, women choose to have abortions because of many reasons, quite a lot of them are actually social or finiacial. If pro-lifers want to stop abortions happening, they should turn their energy to the problems and not the symptoms.

[Kazan]

Exactly - the IMAGE the fundemantalist movement has drawn as it being their "method of contraception" is a false image - it's the last resort

The ABORTION RATE IS HIGHER AMONG FUNDAMENTALIST RAISED WOMEN - Why? Because they're not taught proper sex educaiton so they don't know about contraceptives

So since they've been denied information about contraceptives they get pregnant [don't pull that chastity bull****], now that they're pregnant they can either A) Abort the child and be called a murderer by you fundies or B) Keep the child and be called lazy, said they're milking the welfare system


You people are freaking ignorant

[size=32]Pro-life, that's a lie! You don't care if women die![/size]