[Roanoke]

Originally posted by aldo_14


There's a reason why people hated that mission.........  

Of course, the first Sathani let itself be ambushed.... it got hit by the bombers and Mjolnirs, and must have realised it was being targeted with precision - but not fatal - strikes.

And, hey presto, out came the GTVA's biggest and best ship - the Colossus.  And the Sathani sat, and was destroyed... and in the process would have fully analysed the offensive capabilities of the Colossus itself.  Next time a Sathani encountered the Colossus, it destroyed it....

So who's to say the first Sathani wasn't sacrificed to identify the GTVA's most powerful weapon, on the assumption that the GTVA technological level would result in a single ship or class comparable to the Sathani?

I always imagined the Shivans to operate on instinct so I doubt that. Besides,they may have loads of 'em, bu I doubt the Shivans would allow a Jug to be lost. Sounds more like the role of the Rakshasa destroyed by the Carthage and Dashor. Maybe they only sent 1 Sathanas because that's all they had in the area at the time.

[Ransom]

Originally posted by Roanoke


I always imagined the Shivans to operate on instinct so I doubt that. Besides,they may have loads of 'em, bu I doubt the Shivans would allow a Jug to be lost. Sounds more like the role of the Rakshasa destroyed by the Carthage and Dashor. Maybe they only sent 1 Sathanas because that's all they had in the area at the time.

Uh... but that ship wasn't attacked by the Collossus.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Originally posted by Liberator


Umm, Colossus vs. Sathanas, round 1?

That Sathanas had nowhere to go at that point. Plus, it's weapons systems had been completely ****ed, thanks to Alpha 1's helios bombs. How about round 2, where it jumped in right at the Collosus and pasted it with it's cannons?

[NGTM-1R]

The Shivans are optimized for offensive fighting, and that works pretty well for them, since they've never really had to fight defensively.

Except once. In the nebula, before the Sathanas arrived. And as I've said before, the reason it feels like you're winning there is probably because you are. When forced on the defensive, the Shivans seem to seize up. It's not in their nature to defend, they're not used to it.

[Annorax]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
Sooo Does anyone want the mission, bear in mind that its not just the orions warping in and blowing it up but something else happens, go on just try it!

I'll take it. God knows I need something new to play with while TropicsPoker is down. Please send to teroknorevents (AT) gmail (SpamHatersDot) com. Thanks.

[Kosh]

The Shivans are optimized for offensive fighting, and that works pretty well for them, since they've never really had to fight defensively.

I do agree with this. Looking at the GTVA ships, their firepower is fairly evenly distributed around the ship. Shivan capital ships have practicly all their firepower directly in front of them (except the Demon and the Lucifer).

[Mongoose]

Originally posted by Kosh
(except the Demon and the Lucifer).

How does the Lucifer not have all of its firepower concentrated at the front?  Its two flux cannons are on the front arms, and we saw what those could do in FS1.

[Carl]

don't forget it has a 3rd hidden flux cannon on it's side.

[FireCrack]

Originally posted by Carl
don't forget it has a 3rd hidden flux cannon on it's side.

and one on the other side, then the middle one.

5

[Mongoose]

Five?  Which model were you looking at?  I've targeted ever turret on the thing, and I've only ever seen the two up front.  Plus, those were the only two that ever fired.

[NGTM-1R]

The Tech Room claims it has three.

[Mongoose]

It does, but there are only two on the actual model/used in-game, so that's what I'm going by.

[Kie99]

THere's also the 2 it uses in the cutscene, that are its fighterbays in the game.

[FireCrack]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
THere's also the 2 it uses in the cutscene, that are its fighterbays in the game.

actualy the fighterbays ar behind those ones, it still has them

[Mongoose]

I believe the general consensus about those beams was that they were misplaced, not that they were an additional set.

[freespace2pilot]

if u want the long and the short of this, go to gamespot.com, community, search freespace 2 and go to the biggest forum of the three then go to the topic "something just occured to me (MASSIVE SPOILERS)"
and then, for the love of all things sacred CLOSE THIS TOPIC BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AlphaOne]

Oki about this whole ofensive defensive thing of the GTVA/Shivan warships...it's true I mean the Sathanas could be tosted by an Orion if it was well placed further back and to the side of course that Lred in the rear would pose a problem but I believe it could be taken care of with only one wing of bommbers!

As fosr th Colossus keep in mind that it was not designed to battle enything of equal size and firepower and we know that the Sathanas was way more powerfull than the Colossus (4 BFred's).
The Colossus was mainly designed to battle and win against multiple destroyers I believe that 6 destroyers are an acurate noumber of warships that the Colossus could take on and win.

As for the Sathanas just soking up fire and eventualy beeing destroyed by the Colossus remeber that the Colossus had LRBGrens I believe wich if i'm corect have an efective range of some 10500 meters vs 7200 of the Sathanas beams so that means that it ca n deliver more damage in time even though those beams are less powerfull than the shivan ones!
The Sathanas beeing an ofensive weapon is designed with heavy armour..a lot of armour comparing it with the Colossus armour it makes the Colossus to shame.
That is why the Colossus had such a hard time taking it out even with all guns blazing I believe there wer some 8 beam cannons fiering at that blasted thing.
The colossus was a superb weapon for its original role taking out destroyers it sucked at taking out Satanas ships sure you want to make it a more efective weapon cut its fighter bayis to about 40% of theyr size double the armour and add some more Heavy weaponry and there you have it and GTVA version of th Sathanas.

[knn]

Both the Colossus and the Sathanas have an equal amount of hitpoints (1000000), the Sathanas has 4 BFReds with 1900 damage (I think) and 8000 range, the Colossus's default BGreen causes about 1100 damage and has a range of 4000m. The LRBGreen is the overloaded version of the BGreen, with higher damage and a range of 8000m. The Sathanas's beams recharge in less than 10 secs (like most Shivan beams), while the LRBGreen recharges in 30 secs. Now that's why the colossus needs 10 minutes or so to destroy the Sathanas while the Sathanas blasts the Colossus in less than a minute.

Anyway, try putting a Lucifer from FS2 and a Colossus in front of each other and beam-free only a few TerSlashers and the Lucifers beams. The Lucifer nearly destroys the Colossus, because the Colossus can only attack with its small front cannons while the Lucifer atacks with its quick main guns many times, which recharge in 10 secs. However, if you give the Colossus an attack order and beam-free all the beams, it will pulverize the Lucifer with its BGreens. It's the same with the Ravana.
To make a Terran Sathanas out of the Colossus, replace its BGReens with BFReds and its TerSlashers with LReds.

Oh, and the tech description for the Lucifer from FS1 says it has 3 beams because the original design had three arms, like the Cain/Lilith (look at the credits of FS1). Then they changed that to two and later, they added 2 more to the sides (those seen in the Tombaugh station attack and in the FS2 intro), but those did not appear on the ingame version.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Roanoke


I always imagined the Shivans to operate on instinct so I doubt that. Besides,they may have loads of 'em, bu I doubt the Shivans would allow a Jug to be lost. Sounds more like the role of the Rakshasa destroyed by the Carthage and Dashor. Maybe they only sent 1 Sathanas because that's all they had in the area at the time.

Remember the FS1 mission where the Shivans booby-trapped weapons crates; that's not an act of instinct but planning.  Likewise their decision not to destroy the Iceni when it makes first contact.

I don't think it's inconceivable the Shivans would sacrifice a Sathanas to gain tactical knowledge; it can't be that big a sacrifice given that they have at least 80 others withing a few days (or so) travel; and also in that they identify the GTVA has Mjolnir cannon, that GTVA attacks are likely to be used to 'break down' the ship, and also the size & armament of the Colossus class.

IIRC they had crippled the Colossus fighterbay prior to it's destruction - perhaps they were counter-acting the tactic of the bombers taking out Sathani beam cannon?

[knn]

The Shivans didn't know a 6.1 km long superdestroyer was waiting for them in the Capella system. The Colossus attacked immediately after the Sathanas jumped. The Shivans probably thought they could repair their weapons before a GTVA destroyer could do serious damage, and their bombers could take care of the destroyer. I doubt they were expecting to see a ship as powerful as the Colossus.