[SpardaSon21]

GTVA has no interest in destroying the UEF or glassing planets. That's a huge difference in the strategy compared to Covenant.

The biggest problem GTVA faces is in fact not the UEF military, but the logistical impossibility of occupying Earth (and, to lesser extent Mars). The best they can hope is to take control of the solar system space and orbital facilities, but if Earth population by and large decides they don't want to give their resources to the GTVA, what would GTVA do?

Send in the Marines? The Earth alone is probably still the largest population center of humanity, and most likely more populous than the GTVA as a whole.

As far as comparison to Covenant (pre-Halo 2 events) would go, their interest in humanity would be complete destruction.

So the question arises - what does the GTVA hope to accomplish with the war? Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

Just saying that if the UEF decides to go for organized resistance on planetside, GTVA would have a hard time dealing with it.

Resurrect the original Harbinger?

[The E]

Because genocide is fuuuuun.


No, wait, it's not. You can't win a civil war, much less conduct an occupation, using antimatter bombs.

[NGTM-1R]

using antimatter bombs.

Salted fission-fusion quad warhead technically. I'm still a littler unclear on the utility there, as the slightest timing error results in fratricide and a suboptimal explosion, but...

[-Norbert-]

Just put a little dose of super-high-tech mixed with handwavium in and they work just fine.

Whilst the GTVA ships ripped things appart with beams - very similar to the Covenant...

The Covenant had just a single ship that used beams (not counting plasma turrets that Cortana reconfigured), the others were armed with some lasers for point defense and plasma torpedoes.
Not sure about that book with the "stealth spartans" though...

Remember all the way back in FS1? Operation Thresher had the GTA lose over 300+ fighters and pilots, and yet that didn't effect fleet operations at all it seemed.

If that came in answer to me: I wasn't talking about the fighter losses affecting the operation. I was just saying that so many dead pilots can't be hidden from the general public for long. And once those death get public, they put a lie to the GTVAs argument that the UEF is completely pacifistic and thus helpless against the Shivans, showing that High Command either was lying or seriously mistaken. Either way not a good way to stay in power in a society that's barely holding together in the first place. And the only thing that kept them together for almost two decades was the promise of reuniting with Earth (which helped focus the population into a common goal, but alienated the Vasudans - no pun intended).

[SpardaSon21]

Norbert, some of the more powerful Covenant vessels had energy projectors which were massive beam cannons.

[General Battuta]

Norbert, some of the more powerful Covenant vessels had energy projectors which were massive beam cannons.

He's thinking of the one exemplar of those more powerful ships that showed up at the end of Fall of Reach.

[Jellyfish]

Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

[Klaustrophobia]

the UEF DOES know about the shivan threat.  they have had access to the history of the GTVA post-lucifer, i assume through the defected ships and servicemen.

[Ravenholme]

the UEF DOES know about the shivan threat.  they have had access to the history of the GTVA post-lucifer, i assume through the defected ships and servicemen.

Doesn't cover that they don't have a ready made fleet designed to combat the red-five-legged menace, and the GTVA does. Or did, before the UEF started knocking holes in it.

Rather short sighted there chaps, enjoy being Shivan munchies once you finish destroying your last, best hope for victory. (Yes, Noemi, I'm glaring at you)

[General Battuta]

Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

[SpardaSon21]

Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

Defeating the next Shivan incursion thanks to Sol's industry, technology, and population certainly will though.

[Ravenholme]

Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

How can it have ruled for that long? I thought it formed in the aftermath of the Luci's cataclysmic entry to the Sol system? Which makes the GTA (which was formed at around that time) just as long standing. And, honestly, a more effective government since it guided a sparsely populated colonial region through two rebellions, a shivan incursion and all the associated strifes. Admittedly, post 2nd Shivan Incursion, the glue that held the GTA together was the dream of a return to Earth, but...

Oh, and Sparda makes an excellent point.

[Klaustrophobia]

the UEF DOES know about the shivan threat.  they have had access to the history of the GTVA post-lucifer, i assume through the defected ships and servicemen.

Doesn't cover that they don't have a ready made fleet designed to combat the red-five-legged menace, and the GTVA does. Or did, before the UEF started knocking holes in it.

Rather short sighted there chaps, enjoy being Shivan munchies once you finish destroying your last, best hope for victory. (Yes, Noemi, I'm glaring at you)

if the Sol fleet is knocking holes in the GTVA fleet, they were NOT ready to combat the shivans.  or the Sol fleet was just as ready, depending on how you look at it.

[General Battuta]

Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

How can it have ruled for that long? I thought it formed in the aftermath of the Luci's cataclysmic entry to the Sol system?

You're thinking of the GTVA. The GTA formed 19 years before FS1 when intersystem starflight was discovered.

Which makes the GTA (which was formed at around that time) just as long standing.

After above post, this should be clearer: the GTA ruled Sol for 19 years, the Federation has been in power for 40+ (if I recall my history right.)

[est1895]

I'm crashing on mission 3 & 5....  with 5 being the worst ...is anyone else having that?  I'll get you the fs2.log file tomorrow if you need it.

regards,

Ralph

PS...what does schlaug mean?  because I said it to a german woman and she did this

[Ravenholme]

Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

How can it have ruled for that long? I thought it formed in the aftermath of the Luci's cataclysmic entry to the Sol system?

You're thinking of the GTVA. The GTA formed 19 years before FS1 when intersystem starflight was discovered.

Which makes the GTA (which was formed at around that time) just as long standing.

After above post, this should be clearer: the GTA ruled Sol for 19 years, the Federation has been in power for 40+ (if I recall my history right.)

Well, I always assumed the GTA had continuance as the Terran part of the GTVA, and the PVE folded into the fleet structure and as an equal partner in the alliance (but still, loosely, as an autonomous empire)

[General Battuta]

Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

How can it have ruled for that long? I thought it formed in the aftermath of the Luci's cataclysmic entry to the Sol system?

You're thinking of the GTVA. The GTA formed 19 years before FS1 when intersystem starflight was discovered.

Which makes the GTA (which was formed at around that time) just as long standing.

After above post, this should be clearer: the GTA ruled Sol for 19 years, the Federation has been in power for 40+ (if I recall my history right.)

Well, I always assumed the GTA had continuance as the Terran part of the GTVA, and the PVE folded into the fleet structure and as an equal partner in the alliance (but still, loosely, as an autonomous empire)

We're talking from the POV of the people in Sol, which is what matters to the people in Sol in terms of attachment to a government.

Nineteen years of wartime emergency powers versus 40+ years of prosperity is going to create powerful loyalty to one of those over the other.

[Ravenholme]

Do they want to win the hearts and minds of the UEF population, or try to subjugate the leadership of UEF to act as their puppets or possibly remove the UEF leading organs and replace them with GTVA command?

This doesn't sound that hard. Just tell them of the Shivan horrors and how Ubuntu has no idea what to do with them, then bomb the Elder Council to hell.

Taking out a government that's ruled Sol in peace and prosperity for longer than the GTA even existed probably won't endear you to the populace, though.

How can it have ruled for that long? I thought it formed in the aftermath of the Luci's cataclysmic entry to the Sol system?

You're thinking of the GTVA. The GTA formed 19 years before FS1 when intersystem starflight was discovered.

Which makes the GTA (which was formed at around that time) just as long standing.

After above post, this should be clearer: the GTA ruled Sol for 19 years, the Federation has been in power for 40+ (if I recall my history right.)

Well, I always assumed the GTA had continuance as the Terran part of the GTVA, and the PVE folded into the fleet structure and as an equal partner in the alliance (but still, loosely, as an autonomous empire)

We're talking from the POV of the people in Sol, which is what matters to the people in Sol in terms of attachment to a government.

Nineteen years of wartime emergency powers versus 40+ years of prosperity is going to create powerful loyalty to one of those over the other.

Ah yes, I was just dealing in hard facts there, to make sure that I hadn't got things wrong. I know that the silly Sol-ers will have their own (incorrect, naturally) assessment. Comes from having a bad government.

[Ypoknons]

Is the GTVA the answer to the Shivans? Remember in the background story one of the reasons for the GTVA's problems post-Capella is that before the second war the GTVA seemed to be keep the people safe from the Shivans... until they showed up with 80 jugs and blew up up Capella. What's more, since then the GTVA has been an economic mess, its two members in a deteriorating relationship and sure, its fleet has improved but is it enough to face down the Shivans? It's all the background materials guys, so what is the GTVA's answer to the Shivans?

[Ravenholme]

Is the GTVA the answer to the Shivans? Remember in the background story one of the reasons for the GTVA's problems post-Capella is that before the second war the GTVA seemed to be keep the people safe from the Shivans... until they showed up with 80 jugs and blew up up Capella. What's more, since then the GTVA has been an economic mess, its two members in a deteriorating relationship and sure, its fleet has improved but is it enough to face down the Shivans? It's all the background materials guys, so what is the GTVA's answer to the Shivans?

Their entire new fleet is BASED around destroying Shivans. It's not physically possible to defeat the Shivans as it stands, but the GTVA stands a better chance of holding down the fort (As in, they won't roll over in a day when the Shivans come knocking) until a solution is found. THAT makes them a more efficient and prepared government than the UEF can ever hope to be in my eyes.