Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 522573 times)

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Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Many of the War in Heaven missions were finished before the AoA Director's Cut was polished up and shipped out. That alarm siren was a late touch in AoA, and we never got around to putting it in WiH. It was meant as more of a 'pay attention to this message!' sound than anything else. But making consistency there would be a nice touch for a re-release.

If you do, I hope you tone down the volume quite a bit. Because the Renjians alarm really hurts my ears the way it is now.

 

Offline Darius

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The UEF klaxon doesn't work as well by itself as it did with voices, but it should make a return in the voice-acted version of War :)

  

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The UEF klaxon doesn't work as well by itself as it did with voices, but it should make a return in the voice-acted version of War :)

Awesome :D

Also - I may have just stolen your highscore for "Fight Theme - AIM" on the elite scoreboard of Audiosurf
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
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Offline reavens

  • 20
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
ERANGE: String error. Please Report.
Trying to put into 32 byte buffer:
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿy   $
<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>

 :hopping:

always show this message when i firing missle.... :confused:

 

Offline The E

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Please read the FSO FAQ and post an fs2_open.log.

In addition, please read the BP release post, and make sure you followed the install instructions correctly.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
ERANGE: String error. Please Report.
Trying to put into 32 byte buffer:
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿy   $
<no module>! KiFastSystemCallRet
<no module>! WaitForSingleObject + 18 bytes
<no module>! <no symbol>
<no module>! <no symbol>

 :hopping:

always show this message when i firing missle.... :confused:

Is your pilot name extremely long?  :nervous: And yeah, do what The_E said.

 

Offline Hellzed

  • 28
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Does Steele use games theory ?
I felt BP WiH was very realistic, and I found why : it seems that Steele behave like a good poker player !

It became particularly easy to see in Delenda Est : Steele could crush the Indus and Yangze easily, but he damages them just enough (engaging 2 Deimos class cruisers in the fight, which cumulated firepower is just under the UEF 3 cruisers firepower). In the same time he refuses to surrender, forcing the UEF to push farther its assault on the Carthage, AND to engage 3 more cruisers !

replace poker tokens with human lifes and tons of metal : a player can still be back in the game while he has some tokens, so you have to take as many of them as you can in order to get a clear victory.
What Steele makes is not just a simple trap, he creates a new strategic way for the GTVA :
1) GTVA can't attack the earth directly, too many people could die, both from UEF and GTVA, that makes the public opinion for the two factions unstable, so as the end of the war ;
2) The offensive "guerrilla style" methods of the Wargods cans only be responded by a counter guerrilla tactics... leading to a long war, many deaths in a long time, without influence on opinions ;
3) Steele's strategy, easing UEF self confidence gain, is a way to make the UEF elite corps to put all its "tokens" in the same time is the very smart thing to do !

I'm trying to make a "gain matrix" which sum up what i think, but it's harder than for real conflicts since i haven't information like media influence in GTVA and UEF, death/month ratio for each faction and some other stuff we use to modelise real conflicts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

And yeah, I study strategics at university, and i could not help myself.  :)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 01:04:21 pm by Hellzed »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Does Steele use games theory ?
I felt BP WiH was very realistic, and I found why : it seems that Steele behave like a good poker player !

I become particularly easy to see in Delenda Est : Steele could crush the Indus and Yangze easily, but he damages them just enough (engaging 2 Deimos class cruisers in the fight, which cumulated firepower is just under the UEF 3 cruisers firepower). In the same time he refuses to surrender, forcing the UEF to push farther its assault on the Carthage, AND to engage 3 more cruisers !

replace poker tokens with human lifes and tons of metal : a player can still be back in the game while he has some tokens, so you have to take as many of them as you can in order to get a clear victory.
What Steele makes is not just a simple trap, he creates a new strategic way for the GTVA :
1) GTVA can't attack the earth directly, too many people could die, both from UEF and GTVA, that makes the public opinion for the two factions unstable, so as the end of the war ;
2) The offensive "guerrilla style" methods of the Wargods cans only be responded by a counter guerrilla tactics... leading to a long war, many deaths in a long time, without influence on opinions ;
3) Steele's strategy, easing UEF self confidence gain, is a way to make the UEF elite corps to put all its "tokens" in the same time is the very smart thing to do !

I'm trying to make a "gain matrix" which sum up what i think, but it's harder than for real conflicts since i haven't information like media influence in GTVA and UEF, death/month ratio for each faction and some other stuff we use to modelise real conflicts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

And yeah, I study strategics at university, and i could not help myself.  :)

You may well be better at this than me, but I can confirm that this is exactly what Steele was trying to do. The Carthage was meant to be a target too good to pass up, but also threatening enough that the Wargods would have no choice but to go all in after it - putting all their assets in one place.

 

Offline Pred the Penguin

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Just finished...
It seems the Earth government sees every planet except for Earth as expendable.

 

Offline Liberator

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The Earth G'Ment are a bunch of hippies who are running the government by smoking weed, listening to certifiably crazy people and rolling bones to make decisions.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
The Earth G'Ment are a bunch of hippies who are running the government by smoking weed, listening to certifiably crazy people and rolling bones to make decisions.

Sometimes I wonder why we bother writing all this stuff if people aren't gonna read it. *sigh* Read the techroom.

Shape up or ship out, you're doing a disrespect to those of us who worked on it.

 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I believe he was joking.

And Hellzed, well, all warfare is based on deception; he may well have studied game theory during his studies in strategy as a staff officer.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I believe he was joking.

crunchy poeslaw

 

Offline Liberator

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I've read it Batt, that's just how I interpreted it.  The Navari project is all about finding people who can tap into whatever it was that FS1 Alpha 1, The Beis and a couple of Vasudans have that allowed them to receive communication from further up the "food chain".  Given that the visions this conduit induces drove The Joker bat**** insane and pushed Sam to the point where he was willing to commit suicide(though it turned out for the better) and that there are intermissions where the Elders are talking back and forth about not being able to "hear them anymore".  I'm firmly in the camp of the Ubuntu leadership being drugged up Hippies who are just slightly not as far around the bend as the people they are trying desperately to find.

BTW, auditory and visual hallucinations are a firm sign that you are insane or on the way there.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well that's all true, but bear in mind that Nagari was a GTI project, not UEF.

But the Council of Elders is not the entire Federation.

 

Offline Liberator

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Perhaps not, but from how it's been presented, the Federation pretty much falls lockstep behind them.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Pred the Penguin

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
It feels like the Elders focus pretty much on long term effects only, ignoring any short term effects their decisions might have, which undeniably causes some people to suffer.
It's hard to believe that only 2nd and 3rd fleet admirals out of all the people in Sol they're slightly insane.

I haven't read all the backstory (the detail is amazing in my opinion), but that's pretty much what I've gotten from playing the campaign.

I definitely understand why you keep saying there's no moral high ground.

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Sometimes I wonder why we bother writing all this stuff if people aren't gonna read it. *sigh* Read the techroom.
I certianly enjoyed reading all the proses, even before WiH1 came out :yes:

Just finished...
It seems the Earth government sees every planet except for Earth as expendable.
No they don't.
Spoiler:
But they beliefe very strongly (and correctly, as Steels blitz attack showed) that the GTVA is first and foremost after Earth. Since Admiral Byrne believes Earth is going to be attacked again soon, he concentrats all of his assets around the Blue Planet to be as prepared as possible for the coming storm and hope they can last long enough for the secret project to turn the tides.
While the other Admirals don't necessarily beliefe otherwise, they think sitting and waiting for the Tevs to attack them is suicide and declared authonomy from Byrne in order to go on the offensive against the invaders.
They do this mostly to gain time. Wether it's time for the secret project, or trying to draw the war out beyond the GTVAs ability or willingness to continue, or even time for developing their own beamweapons I can't tell for sure though.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Quote from: Norbert
or even time for developing their own beamweapons I can't tell for sure though.
Having beam weapons of their own would level the playing field but I doubt it would give them enough of an edge to win over the GTVA

So whatever it is they are planning, it had better be something more grand :o
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Perhaps not, but from how it's been presented, the Federation pretty much falls lockstep behind them.

Lib has a point. The team has talked a lot about the various factions in the UEF and soforth, but they haven't actually presented a government with serious divisions. It may be a point of view issue, but...
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