[Colonol Dekker]

Lorca was acting the whole time.  Compared to planning an insurrection from beside the emperor playing nice guy in federation space must have been a piece of cake.    He was a genuine asshole the whole time but just played nice.    Evil Lorca is true Lorca.



Hail the terrain empire.

[karajorma]

Okay, I really, really tried to watch the show some more to see if it does get as good as you guys seem to believe. Lethe was boring and a bit predictable but I could stand it. I'm currently watching the Harry "The Terminator" Mudd episode where they ripped off the time loop from an earlier episode of TNG and I don't I can go on watching this drivel. I've actually had to stop and walk away twice cause I couldn't watch any more without taking a break. Did you guys actually think this episode was any good?

[TrashMan]

If your answers aren't going to make this a more enjoyable place to visit for everyone, perhaps you should edit that post one more time.

[/quote]
Please everyone. Sounds easy. I'll get right on it.

[Luis Dias]

  

[karajorma]

Trashman's post has been reported so please leave it to the moderators from now on.

I'd like an answer for my question though. I've not been reading this thread very closely because it's full of spoilers for episodes I still haven't seen so if you have answered earlier I haven't read it. When does this show actually get good?

[Colonol Dekker]

I started out very apprehensive too, there's some nonsense about a planet being used to amplify a signal that affects kelp people, I don't remember when I started really liking it but it got under my skin and now I do....It might change once we see the next episode though.

[karajorma]

Not the latest episode, the show in general. I'm seven episodes in and I had to stop watching cause it was quite literally the worst sci-fi I've watched since the alien in War of the Worlds who shot lasers out of her hands by dabbing. I feel like I'm watching a show written by a pre-TNG Data who has never interacted with humans and has no idea how they relate to each other. 

Stamets: We're all going to die. It starts with the space whale!
on the bridge
It's a space whale!
Captain: I don't give a **** about space whales
Burnham: Let me take charge, we'll go down to the shuttle deck and look at the space whale. Let's not tell the captain about the amazingly large space whale related coincidence that just happened to us nor speak to the guy who warned us about our imminent deaths being related to a space whale. There's no way he could have any more relevant information! We'll just be slightly more careful about beaming the space whale aboard our ship than normal.
Ash: I have a gun. I agree with your plan. We'll be fine!


Is this really the show when it's good? I'm asking seriously. If this is a good episode, I don't need to watch any more. But if it's bad, I can probably suffer through another few episodes if it does actually get good.

[Luis Dias]

The show gets progressively better. The mirror universe arc is fine, imho, the two episodes that Dekker alluded to just before it are fine, I guess.

If you're not into it, I don't think you'll miss much though. It's the same characters, so if you learned to just don't care about them, there's very little to get from the newer ones.

I'm way more hyped for the next season of Expanse, and I've yet to learn more about Future Man to see if it's anything good, and I've yet to get into Stranger Things, but somehow I never find myself psyched to do so.

[karajorma]

Well bearing in mind that time spent watching those two episodes was time I didn't spend starting The Expanse (I literally had to decide between the two), it looks like I definitely made the wrong decision.


EDIT: Since there was only about 15 minutes left I did watch the ending. Gotta love how crew decide that they can release a known conman and possible Klingon spy who has detailed knowledge of how their top secret drive works. Yeah, I'm done. If people who are saying the later episodes are really good think this one is worth watching, then I simply can't trust their judgement on the matter.

[Luis Dias]

I did not say that episode was good. I said the show gets better, and while I do share your facepalminess towards that particular episode and the way they just trust that guy, there's good reason for this. You see, he cannot be a klingon spy because there are starfleet records of this guy actually existing and being a starfleet officer.

Moreover, yes, you made a terrible mistake in not watching the Expanse. It's an amazing show, and the kind of which only gets better and better. Personally, I loved especially season 2. It's the best sci fi **** since BattleStar Galactica, as far as I'm concerned.

[MP-Ryan]

I did not say that episode was good. I said the show gets better, and while I do share your facepalminess towards that particular episode and the way they just trust that guy, there's good reason for this. You see, he cannot be a klingon spy because there are starfleet records of this guy actually existing and being a starfleet officer.

Moreover, yes, you made a terrible mistake in not watching the Expanse. It's an amazing show, and the kind of which only gets better and better. Personally, I loved especially season 2. It's the best sci fi **** since BattleStar Galactica, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, the timeloop episode was among the weakest, if not the weakest, of the series so far.  It does improve dramatically.

And my question for you about The Expanse:  have you read the books?  I keep hearing amazing things about the show, but I don't know if I want to go through the effort of tracking it down if it mangles the books (which I love).  Reading book 7 right now, in fact.

[Luis Dias]

No I haven't but I know The_E has done both things. IIRC, he said they *don't* mangle the books, but better ask him. Regardless, I would doubt it does.

e: Looked back and this was my take on the timeloop episode, so that Karajorma won't say I approved that episode

I was entertained by the episode, Mudd was really good, but the story doesn't hold up. It's by far the worst time loop plot I've seen in Star Trek, apart from Generations. They don't build up the mechanisms through which they can win the scenario in an organic fashion, instead relying too much on the very trope-ish nature of the episode so that we may "fill in the blanks", but there are just too many blanks to fill. The episode goes through the motions very fast though, so you may not ask any hard questions and expose any contradictions or peculiarities.

The episode also ends quite poorly. After killing the crew several times in horrible ways, Mudd's punishment is marrying a lovely rich lady and being told not to disturb the Federation anymore. What the hell. After having this guy on their hands, they treat him with kid's gloves as if he had just made a small speed infraction.

[karajorma]

I didn't say you specifically Luis, but I vaguely remember other people thought it was good when skimming.

As for The Expanse, I had planned to watch it eventually but I had the choice between starting a show already two seasons in or finishing up Trek which everyone on here keeps insisting is good and would only require watching 6-7 episodes to be current. Yeah, wrong choice. So now I'm not going to bother with Trek until I've watched The Expanse. Blame yourselves for leading me to a poor decision.

You see, he cannot be a klingon spy because there are starfleet records of this guy actually existing and being a starfleet officer.

You can be a Klingon spy without being an actual Klingon. He was last seen in a Klingon prison and only gives the vaguest explanation how he got out (which of course could be a complete pack of lies). The possibility that he was released to spy for the Klingons surely should be something they would worry about even if he didn't possess top secret information! The fact he keeps going on about selling information to the Klingons should also be another worry!

[Det. Bullock]

I didn't say you specifically Luis, but I vaguely remember other people thought it was good when skimming.

As for The Expanse, I had planned to watch it eventually but I had the choice between starting a show already two seasons in or finishing up Trek which everyone on here keeps insisting is good and would only require watching 6-7 episodes to be current. Yeah, wrong choice. So now I'm not going to bother with Trek until I've watched The Expanse. Blame yourselves for leading me to a poor decision.

You see, he cannot be a klingon spy because there are starfleet records of this guy actually existing and being a starfleet officer.

You can be a Klingon spy without being an actual Klingon. He was last seen in a Klingon prison and only gives the vaguest explanation how he got out (which of course could be a complete pack of lies). The possibility that he was released to spy for the Klingons surely should be something they would worry about even if he didn't possess top secret information!

I think that's where the grafted personality comes in.
Add also that Lorca seems to think counseling is a hippie commie thing so probably didn't care about any traumas that might be treated with extensive psychiatric visits.

[X3N0-Life-Form]

I'm still enjoying the show quite a bit, but I'm still confused as to what the hell people were expecting out of it. It's Star Trek, a franchise that (mostly) collapsed under its own weight & self importance ages ago, what we had left were a few wonderful gems among a sea of either bland or dreadful sci-fi, with little respect for its own continuity most of the time.
I expected to find either the self-righteous smug moral certainty you could find in the likes of TNG, Voy or ENT, or just the general bland recycled science fiction plots that Trek had been serving for decades. Someone earlier said something to the effect of "were expectations really that low ?", my answer to that is yes.
What we got is far from perfect, and can get downright facepalming at times, and in places it tries to overcompensate for Trek's own history, but I don't find it particularly infuriating like many people do. And it's hell of a lot better than what I was expecting. Does that mean it's good ? No, but I don't think it's dreadful either. Right now, I'm classifying it as "average with shiny effects", which is enough to keep me watching for now.

As for The Expanse, I had planned to watch it eventually but I had the choice between starting a show already two seasons in or finishing up Trek

Well, I'm sure if you'd asked around which one was better worth your time we would have told you which one to go for ^^. This is the kind of thing that happens when people remember that yeah, science fiction books are still a thing, and are where most of the really good ideas came from, originally.

[Colonol Dekker]

Expanse has better plot but worse effects.   It's like babylon 5 

[Mikes]

Expanse has better plot but worse effects.   It's like babylon 5 

The Books are still much better, but plot loses steam later on after book 3 or 4 imho.

[MP-Ryan]

Expanse has better plot but worse effects.   It's like babylon 5 

The Books are still much better, but plot loses steam later on after book 3 or 4 imho.

You deserve to lose magnetic containment for that, how can you say that!  I'll concede that book 4 was not the best of the series, but 3, 5, and 6 were all great.  So far, 7 is off to a rollicking start too.  3 tied up the arc from 1 and 2 quite neatly and set the stage for the next trilogy.  4 was weaker as it removed the plot from much of what was going on in Sol, but 5 and 6 had genuine edge-of-the-seat moments when reading them.  I should clarify, as I didn't start reading the series until a few years ago, I read books 1 through 5 back-to-back, book 6 released two months later, and then I've been stuck waiting for 7 with the rest of you.

[karajorma]

Trashman's post has been reported so please leave it to the moderators from now on.

For those wondering, none of the moderation staff who commented on the report thought the post was appropriate and Trashman is now banned from commenting for 12 days.

[Mikes]

Expanse has better plot but worse effects.   It's like babylon 5 

The Books are still much better, but plot loses steam later on after book 3 or 4 imho.

You deserve to lose magnetic containment for that, how can you say that!  I'll concede that book 4 was not the best of the series, but 3, 5, and 6 were all great.  So far, 7 is off to a rollicking start too.  3 tied up the arc from 1 and 2 quite neatly and set the stage for the next trilogy.  4 was weaker as it removed the plot from much of what was going on in Sol, but 5 and 6 had genuine edge-of-the-seat moments when reading them.  I should clarify, as I didn't start reading the series until a few years ago, I read books 1 through 5 back-to-back, book 6 released two months later, and then I've been stuck waiting for 7 with the rest of you.

Without going into spoiler territory too much ... while I found the later books quite enjoyable, I was a tad disappointed how the "big story arc" took so much of a backseat in favor of internal solar faction squabbling and family issues. Still enjoyable for sure, but compared to the furious start of book 1&2 also just a tad disapponting. Again ... it's not that they are bad, ... I just wish they had been a bit ... more? Haven't read book 7 yet, so can't say anything about that.

As far as other good sci fi ... anyone read the Three Body Problem / Rememberance of Earth's past trilogy yet? If not get right on it. Less space adventure, more mindblowing future history of humankind stuff with some truly mindbending twists. :-) (And I've seen it mentioned that it was being considered for the big screen as well ... but I doubt anything good will come of that considering just how complex the source material is.)